Trade him.  His value will never be higher.  Maybe we could get Willie Taveras for him.

Wow.  Cano had a 12-pitch AB and a 10-pitch AB.  I don’t think he saw 22 pitches all of last April.

Hughes threw far too many pitches and doesn’t have the velocity of a true ace.

Coming into this game, I don’t think Cano’s P/PA is up much higher than it was last year. I’m too lazy to look up the numbers though. As long as he’s hitting, I’ll take it.

PitchFX had his FB velo max out at 94.3, and his curve was nasty. Perhaps the most impressive aspect was how he was able to get of jams unscathed.

I think this game is a good example of how a pitcher with 3 pitches is tougher to hit than a pitcher with 2 pitches. Hughes dropped a few change ups in there which looked decent. I saw a few to Granderson in his 2nd AB.

If you think that Hughes was good ir the 10th run 7th was good, you have to see how the sox lost tonight. Go to mlb.com and watch the final play of the game. It almost made me forget the weekend (nah, not even close)

j- I agree with you that Hughes looked diferent with the extra pitch. But in fact he was using also the cutter, so instead of throwing only FB and curve, tonight he threw FB, cutter, curve and change.

I didn’t get to see much of Hughes - but I’m assuming he used his 4-seamer effectively to set up his curve and change.  His cutter, really a fastball, has supposedly improved and has great late movement - according to reads on his AAA starts.  If he can throw that effectively mixed in with the other pitches, he’ll have many more outings like last night.
DVRed the game so I can take a look fer meself.

Can anyone explain what “late movement” is?

Jonathan- I was more fastball, cutter, curve. He mixed in the change to get through the order a 2nd and 3rd time. I would say to get through it the 2nd time, he only used the change on the better hitters (Granderson, Ordonez, Guillen, Cabrera.) He stuck with FB/cutter/curve and kept it low the 2nd time around with guys like Polanco, Everett and even Inge.  I’ll probably take a look at the PitchFX stuff tomorrow and see if I am imaging this stuff, but it was a great start. It wasn’t like he had insanely great stuff all night.. but he worked with what he had and he got people out.

I know it’s still early, but Brad Penny certainly isn’t fooling anyone in the AL this year.

I hope SG caught this hardballtimes article on the PECOTA projection of Wieters (and others from his AA league), which is also of interest to the readership of this blog.

I had the pleasure of attending this game. I’m not a scout, but I wanted to see Phil in person, so I got online yesterday and picked up a ticket pretty much even with home plate on the third base side. I thought Phil looked very good. He threw some really nice breaking balls, and had some nice pop to his fastball It certainly wasn’t a high velocity pitch, but he did get some swings and misses on it. He threw too many balls for my liking, and got to too many full counts, but then he also gave up only two hits, so I can’t really complain with the results. I could go for some more efficiency though.

I’m not sure I’ve ever been to a game that was blown out like that before. It was very bizarre being in the stands with only 2,000 or so people, all of them having moved into the first 15 or so rows. You could hear everyone, everywhere yelling anything, so I’m sure the players could too. I bring this up because one of the more disgruntled Tigers fans in the audience took it upon himself to scream “Ohio State sucks” at the top of his lungs while Swisher was batting in the ninth. Swisher immediately launched the next pitch out of the yard. Cause and effect? Doubtful, but the juxtaposition was extremely funny.

Can anyone explain what “late movement” is?

Much like with a slider, a cut fastball will break at some point.  Really, late movement is deceptive.  The ball isn’t suddenly veering off course at the last minute.  But, depending on the grip, one can throw a cut fastball that breaks down AND away (or in depending on lefty/righty).  From the hitter’s perspective, a cutter will look like a four seam fastball out of the hand but will actually come in with less velocity and more break.  The more movement you put on a pitch, the less velocity it will have.
So really, late movement depends on how hard the pitch is being thrown.  With a cutter, good movement tends to break down as the pitch nears the plate.

I’m a huge fan of Phil Franchise, and I’m thrilled at how he performed for us tonight.

That said, I have an important question:
I bought a Hughes #34 shirt last year - in a few years, when he’s been in the rotation for a while, will it be cool in a vintage way? Or just stupid? When I see Cano #22 shirts, I don’t know what to make of them, and my Hughes shirt is going down that same path…

Thoughts?

Side note: Is anyone else troubled that Molino now has more career grand slams than Jeter does?

Side note: Is anyone else troubled that Molino now has more career grand slams than Jeter does?

Perhaps Michael Kay?

I’m only troubled because Molina probably has hit his HR quota for the season.

Can anyone explain what “late movement” is?

Isn’t that when you’re all dressed, just locking the door on the way out, and nature calls?

Re: Pitch efficiency.

Strike zone was tough, ESPECIALLY in the early going, otherwise we’re talking about 8 or 9 Ks.

Strike zone was tough, ESPECIALLY in the early going, otherwise we’re talking about 8 or 9 Ks.

Glad to see Phil could adjust accordingly.  If he can adjust on the fly like that, then he might be up here to stay.

Yeah.  There were several pitches that looked like straight strikes, nothing borderline about them, yet they were called balls.

I laughed when Cousins got hit.  Is that bad?

I can’t believe we’re already counting on Hughes and Melancon. Ah well, they’re up to it.

I can’t believe we’re already counting on Hughes and Melancon. Ah well, they’re up to it.

Better than counting on Ponson and Igawa.

For those that watched the game on tv, or are familiar with the changes Hughes has made:

Last year, Phil’s first start was similar: he had a 6 IP, 4/1 K/BB, 99 pitches and 2 ER against Toronto.

What was different this time, and should we count on this being sustainable? This is not Lombardi negativity, just an honest question.

From what I can gather:

1. He is throwing a cutter with some control (although it seemed from gameday that either he was squeezed or wasn’t throwing it enough for strikes)

2. He is mixing in a change, which is serviceable, but needs some more work.

3. Last year, he was using a slider, but he has apparently ditched that pitch.

Anything else?

The ump definitely had a tight zone.  Hughes dealt with it, which was nice to see.

The 10-run inning was nice… of course it doesn’t happen if Anderson catches that flare.  I’ll take it!

He is throwing a cutter with some control

That one he threw to get out of the bases loaded jam had mariano-esque movement to it (of course it was 5 mph slower but still)

Anything else?

Looked like he had more trouble with his control out of the stretch than out of his windup.

Coming into this game, I don’t think Cano’s P/PA is up much higher than it was last year.

I had actually looked that up yesterday in the afternoon.  I don’t recall the exact number, but it was something like 3.48; highest of his career over 3.42 in 2007.  Don’t know what it is now because ESPN seems to have lost all of their 2009 stats.  I guess I could do the math myself at FanGraphs…

Cano is up to 3.64 P/PA, which is way above his career hihg, obviously. I’d be amazed if it didn’t come down some, but given that he’s at .364/.377/.606 during this hitting streak, I don’t really care.

the difference IMO is the cutter. 

last year Hughes had nothing to go to for LH batters.  they were sitting on his fastball and hit .333/.437/.500 against him. 

now he can throw that cutter that bores in on lefty batters and he’ll hopefully generate some weak contact.

it was pretty cold last night in Detroit and we’re only a couple of starts into the season, so i don’t think it’s crazy to think he can another MPH to his fastball as the season progresses.

Kukjian’s already talking about how last night gives new justification for Joba to the 8th.

Interesting to hear about the tight zone. There were quite a few pitches from both pitchers last night that looked like really good pitches that were not called strikes, but from where I was sitting I couldn’t tell if it was just my perspective or a tight zone.

It was definitely very cool last night at Comerica Park (45F by the end), and I did wonder how this might affect the pitchers’ stuff. On the other hand, Jackson was sitting 94-95 touching 97. Hughes was consistently 92-93 getting up to 94. I have no idea how the radar gun at Comerica compares to others, but he was definitely throwing consistently slower than Jackson. Not that there’s any shame in that, as I’m pretty Jackson has always had a live arm, but that’s the way it was.

*IF* the yankees can win tonight, they would come home 11-10 after 21 games.  that’s 21 games in which they played FIFTEEN games on the road. 

if they are 11-10, i’d guess they are only about 1 game worse than where should have reasonably expected them to be after 21 games given the nature of their schedule.  that one game is the game where Mariano has the ball with 2 outs and a 2 run lead.  you win that game 98% of the time. 

things could be worse. 

most encouraging sign so far?  the ghost of Hideki Matsui.  if he can play 5 days a week and hit like he has so far, that’s a huge boost.  i don’t know if he can stay healthy or not, but if he just DH’s, it’s not impossible.

Thoughts?

Get yourself a custom jersey with “PoloShot” and your favorite number on the back.

Hughes dropped a few change ups in there which looked decent. I saw a few to Granderson in his 2nd AB.

the difference IMO is the cutter.

Gameday had him throwing a two seam fastball exclusively, and using the curve (and some sliders, or at least two breaking pitches that differed significantly in speed) against righties and the change against lefties.  Don’t know how accurate that data is of course, but the pitch selection vis-a-vis batter handedness certainly makes sense.

Granderson’s second PA was the walk—gameday says FB, FB, curve, slider, FB.  It has FB, slider, change, FB to Granderson in the fifth.  Which PA are you referring to, j?  I’m trying to figure out whether I can believe what gameday is calling these pitches.  Are the sliders really cutters?  If so, that’s pretty impressive movement for a cut fastball.  Or is the cutter what they’re calling the two-seamer, and is he really throwing it as his primary pitch?

Gameday had him throwing a two seam fastball exclusively

Gamdeday also had every pitcher in that game throwing 2 seam fastballs exclusively so it seems to be a problem with their new pitch recognition software.

Are the sliders really cutters?

Thats my understanding based on his pre-season statements and the video highlights on ESPN.

Gamdeday also had every pitcher in that game throwing 2 seam fastballs exclusively…

Hah!  Guess I should have looked at some of the other data.

John Harper of the Daily News says Joba clearly isn’t a dominating starter and is pitching as if he is worried about re-injuring his shoulder so he belongs in the pen.

I know it’s only April 29 but Toronto is 15-7.  And I know on April 29, 2005 the Baltimore Orioles were 15-7 and finished the year 74-88.  I’m just wondering how long this Toronto thing is going to continue or if they need too many things to go exactly right for them to sustain this.

tj, I guess AJ is a clubhouse cancer for the team too, just like Alex.

Mr. Hughes (and Melancon) performance last night is what makes it fun to be a fan.  I only hope that he pitches so well that a full blown Joba to the pen controversy emerges when Wang comes back. 

Now I think a SP is more valauable than a RP and so it is 100% the correct move to give Joba a chance as a SP because there was no reason to assume that he should be less effective.  However, that doesn’t mean that it is out of the realm of possibility that he is better suited for the bullpen.  I mean, Mariano certainly was (I actually attended a game that he started). 

So I think people have to avoid the knee-jerk negative reaction to any suggestion of moving Joba back to the pen and objectively evaluate the evidence, taking into consideration both performance and the relevence of the sample (SSS).  Cognitive Dissonance shouldn’t cause you to ignore contrary evidence IF it appears.

John Harper of the Daily News says Joba clearly isn’t a dominating starter and is pitching as if he is worried about re-injuring his shoulder so he belongs in the pen.

Not that Joba might not be a disaster as a starter and lights out in the pen, but he’s pretty okay so far, so why so much freakin hot air.

John Harper of the Daily News says Joba clearly isn’t a dominating starter and is pitching as if he is worried about re-injuring his shoulder so he belongs in the pen.

I think these “analysts” are playing a game. Anything that these morons write should read as the following:

“Unrelated shit blah blah blah so Joba belongs in the pen.”

As an example:

“A-Rod is an asshole so Joba belongs in the pen.”

“I need to fill something up for the column today so Joba belongs in the pen.”

It takes a really big level of dumbness to keep repeating the following:

“No matter what Joba does he belongs in the pen.”

It is almost like these guys have a “Jump to conclusion” mat that says “Joba belongs to pen” in every single square.

As if pitching out of the bullpen is a panacea that cures everything that ails a pitcher. I just wonder why Joba has been singled out for this type of conclusion-based analysis. Probably because he was a dominant reliever.

The Joba to the pen thing relies on too many “ifs” for my liking.  IF Hughes can pitch effectively and stay healthy for a season, IF Wang returns to normalcy, and IF Joba can regain his velocity out of the pen, then yes that probably makes the Yankees better for 2009.  But going forward, it is more valuable to build Joba up as a starter and the Yankees know that.

But then you would need a lot of health out of the starting rotation or you’re relying on IPK/Aceves.

I think Mariano could have gotten a longer shot as a starter, but I thought he was used beautifully as the long man, shutdown setup guy.

I think Coke should be given a shot as a starter. I think when you have a chance to get an above average starter, you got to give it a try. That fails, go the longman shutdown guy route. I hate one inning or less guys.

By the time CMW is ready, Joba and Hughes will likely get 1 or 2 more starts? Not that a couple more starts will be enough to counteract SSS (I had no idea what that meant until [39]), but it’d be difficult to make a change I think if both are doing well. I have to believe, if both kids are doing well, you can’t take them out for a look see of CMW.  Especially with the inning cap, if CMW soaks up innings in the pen, is that so horrible.

I guess, maybe CMW may not be suited for the pen, or it’s a drastic underutilization of his skillz, but whatever, the FO and Girardi can only wish to have a problem with all the pitching cylinders running smoothly.

Melancon is going to put the Joba to teh eighth crap to rest. He’s going to be dominant and in four months, when everyone catches on how to how good he is, they’ll start talking about how Joba needs to pitch teh seventh.

As if pitching out of the bullpen is a panacea that cures everything that ails a pitcher. I just wonder why Joba has been singled out for this type of conclusion-based analysis. Probably because he was a dominant reliever.

While I love Joba, the relief stuff also is SSS, no?

I’m just not that worried about our Wang.  I mean, he hurt his foot and needs to build leg strength to get his velocity back- it’s not like he had an arm issue.  The guy almost won 20 games two years in a row and was good last year before the injury so he will be back.  I just can’t understand the negative case (other than the 3 awful outings).

“John Harper of the Daily News says Joba clearly isn’t a dominating starter and is pitching as if he is worried about re-injuring his shoulder so he belongs in the pen.”

Is anyone else a little worried that Joba’s stuff hasn’t been quite the same since he got injured last year?  Compared to his pre-injury starts last year, his velocity’s down and his control is worse.

If he’s still hurt, or just has lesser stuff as a result of the injury, shifting him to the bullpen isn’t going to change that fact.

ps - how do I italicize a quote that I’m copy/pasting from a previous poster?

Re [37]: Let the Blue Jays play some games against the AL East before we draw any conclusions…

Re [37]: Let the Blue Jays play some games against the AL East before we draw any conclusions…

That’s a good point.  I wasn’t drawing any conclusions, just wondering when we can start.  If they’re still up there on June 1, I’ll be a little worried.

mlb.com had Hughes’s fastball as high as 96 last night.  Good stuff (pun intended).

To itlaicize:

< i >  (without the spaces in between)

to end the italics:

< / i > (again, no spaces).

“b” will give you bold, “u” will <u>underline</u>, etc.

insert the quote between < i > and < /i > but without the space within the < and >. if you are starting out, use the preview button to make sure the formatting is going the way you want. as well i=italics, b=bold, and u= underline.

hope that comes out correctly.

Do you all realize how good Wang has been the last few years?  This is a good problem to have but you just don’t throw him into mop up duty just because you don’t want to lose an argument with the Mike Fatsessca et. al.  IF Hughes is the real deal and Wang comes back to normal (likely in my view) then someone must go to the pen and I kind of like seeing Joba there.  A game where Hughes throws 7IP, Melancon throws the 8th, and Joba closes (because Mo saved the previous 3 games) wouldn’t be so bad.

Thanks, guys.

While I love Joba, the relief stuff also is SSS, no?

Yeah, but it was hardly surprising. He has command of two plus pitches, fastball and slider. That was all he was using as a reliever. And that is all that is needed to be a dominant reliever. So while it is SSS, it is not exactly flukish.

John Smoltz is probably the biggest case in point. Between 2002-2004, he was exclusively a reliever, and posted a 2.47 ERA and more than a K per inning. This is better than his stellar career as a starter on a rate basis.

The main confusion, I think is not appreciating the equivalence of relief/staring roles. The following question is perhaps more informative: how many dominant relief innings are needed to equal league average 180 inning (or whatever a league average starting pitcher is expected to throw) in value? I don’t know the answer to it, but I am sure once SG is back, he can answer it.

The problem with the mainstream media is that they are not asking the right questions.

He’s going to be dominant and in four months, when everyone catches on how to how good he is, they’ll start talking about how Joba needs to pitch teh seventh.

And Hughes should pitch teh sevent, Robertson teh six, Wang teh fift, etc.  See, find yourself nine shutdown relievers, and you don’t even need starters.

“Unrelated shit blah blah blah so Joba belongs in the pen.”

Bill Madden in tomorrow’s Daily News:

sam has figured out my schtick, so Joba belongs in the pen.

Do you all realize how good Wang has been the last few years?

Was he ever an ace, is the question?

If he’s still hurt, or just has lesser stuff as a result of the injury, shifting him to the bullpen isn’t going to change that fact.

This is legit, and Steve Goldman has wondered about this. Guess it is not knowable at this time if the team doctors cannot find out anything physically wrong with him.

Hopefully Joba is inspired by Hughes’ reappearance and makes a triumphant return to dominance.

According to Gameday, Hughes touched 94 a few times, but he generally sat at 91-92 on the four seam fastball.  In any case, his fastball command was more impressive than his velocity.  His strikeout of Magglio Ordońez on an 88 mph fastball that was perfectly placed just off the outside part of the plate is proof as was his strikeout of Gerald Laird on a shoulder high fastball that was also in the high 80s.

See, find yourself nine shutdown relievers, and you don’t even need starters.

Especially since RP’s typically have lower ERA’s. 

RE: Joba:  Assuming that the Yankees have 5 quality starters, Joba in the pen may be a good short term decision.  However, this will have long term adverse consequences. 

Joba has more value as an SP over the course of his career.  Even if there are a few bumps in the road, he needs to continue to start for his development.

Hughes is the real deal and Wang comes back to normal (likely in my view) then someone must go to the pen and I kind of like seeing Joba there.

Depending on how Robertson and Melancon pitch this time around (and I expect awesomely) and assuming Wang comes back full strength, they should consider, maybe, DLing Joba to give the organization a chance to evaluate him and figure out what’s going on with his velocity. If they can’t find anything, at least he gets a two week rest in the middle of the season that might make him stronger down the stretch.

This is a good problem to have but you just don’t throw him into mop up duty just because you don’t want to lose an argument with the Mike Fatsessca et. al.  IF Hughes is the real deal and Wang comes back to normal (likely in my view) then someone must go to the pen and I kind of like seeing Joba there

Joba, remember, is only cleared for about 150 IP this year.  Someone (likely Hughes) was going to need to plug a roughly ~50-75 IP gap anyway.  So Wang could come back and Hughes could stay in the rotation, with Joba just getting skipped or even some relief work (without it being any sort of permanent switch back to relieving).  They could even do what I hoped they would do last season: use Hughes & Joba as a tandem (one starts, pitches 4-5 innings and then the other relieves).  Also, one of the other starters could get hurt. 

Oh, and I am mildly concerned about Joba’s work so far.  His velo is down a bit and his command hasn’t been very sharp.  But it’s early.

IF Hughes is the real deal and Wang comes back to normal (likely in my view) then someone must go to the pen and I kind of like seeing Joba there.

and what about next year when pettitte is gone?

or how about having Joba as a viable starter and trading Wang for goodies?  a young OFer perhaps?

if you want Joba in the rotation next year, and i think we do, you HAVE to have him in the rotation this year. 

moving him to the pen this year b/c we have “too many” starters is just insanely short-sighted.

i’d rather see him or Hughes pitching in Scranton then to see Joba finish the year with fewer than 100 innings.

It is almost like these guys have a “Jump to conclusion” mat that says “Joba belongs to pen” in every single square.

This was brilliant. 

Why has no one ever brought up the possibility of Joba to AAA?  If Hughes is pitching great and Wang comes back strong while Joba is struggling, why not send Joba down to AAA to continue to start?  If Hughes struggles it’s back to AAA (an no one is giving up on him) so why is that not an option for Joba?

RE: Joba:  Assuming that the Yankees have 5 quality starters,

Yeah, and that basically means giving Hughes two more starts. At which time, Joba probably gets two too. I just don’t see, if the assumption is that the Yankees are rolling along, they would want to throw a wrench in it with letting CMW start, rather than at least seeing what he can do (in the pen) against MLB caliber bats.

Damn it.  Beat to it by .4 seconds.  That’s .4 seconds.  Do you know how hard that is for a man of my intelligence to handle?

But I really agree.  Joba needs to be stretched out this year.

Was he ever an ace, is the question?

Who cares?  Didn’t we just lock two aces up for 4-7 yrs?  He had >120 ERA+ his last two full seasons pitching in the toughest division in baseball and he just turned 29.

His strikeout of Magglio Ordońez on an 88 mph fastball that was perfectly placed just off the outside part of the plate is proof as was his strikeout of Gerald Laird on a shoulder high fastball that was also in the high 80s.

the pitch to Ordonez was the cutter.  that was what i was alluding to in 29.

that pitch bears in on lefties, but he threw it to a righty and it started over the plate and tailed away. 

he didn’t have that pitch last year.

Hughes is going to have good starts and bad starts, like all young pitchers, but what he did last night was show everyone again that he has the STUFF that we’ve been hearing about for years.  he didn’t really have that last year, and part of it may have been his ribs, or maybe he could just get lefty hitters out in AA with nothing but his fastball, but needed another weapon to adjust to the bigs.

credit goes to whomever figured that out (Eiland, Contreras?) and got him to work on that cutter.

Haha, what I can’t see of course is so freakin immaterial as the FO has their own plans, and most, if not all, of you folks can probably see things a little clearer.

But with the pen needing Joba, the bullpen (even, unthinkably, without Joba) is going to be pretty good this year.

According to Gameday, Hughes touched 94 a few times, but he generally sat at 91-92 on the four seam fastball.  In any case, his fastball command was more impressive than his velocity.  His strikeout of Magglio Ordońez on an 88 mph fastball that was perfectly placed just off the outside part of the plate is proof as was his strikeout of Gerald Laird on a shoulder high fastball that was also in the high 80s.

I remember both of these pitches, and that’s where the Comerica Park gun had him as well. The Laird strikeout in particular surprised me because it really looked like he blew him away, but the gun said only 88 MPH. It seemed much more impressive to my vastly untrained eye.

Joba/Hughes piggy back would be interesting if it is under the assumption that the back half of that combo is expected to finish the game and not Mo.  Could be a nice bullpen rest day.

Joba/Hughes piggy back

I’m a figuring the universe will have to explode before the Yankees try this.

Melancon is going to put the Joba to teh eighth crap to rest. He’s going to be dominant and in four months, when everyone catches on how to how good he is, they’ll start talking about how Joba needs to pitch teh seventh.

I agree with this 100%.

Do you all realize how good Wang has been the last few years? 

Who are you arguing with?  Everyone here realizes how good Wang is.  All I think is happening is brainstorming to figure out the best way to use 3 pitchers for two spots.  Depending on how quickly Wang’s rehab progresses - and how well Joba and Phil pitch - the best solution may in fact have Wang in the pen, for a little while at least.

His velo is down a bit and his command hasn’t been very sharp.  But it’s early.

Possible both the velocity and command are a problem with mechanics.  CC’s first start of the season he had no command and his velocity was way down, and they fixed that.

Which PA are you referring to, j?

I can’t remember at this point.. but it’s likely the AB in the 5th, although I really thought it was Granderons 2nd AB because I remember being curious if he would adjust to get through the order the 2nd time. This seems like a project for some of us the next time Hughes pitches.

he didn’t really have that last year,

Seems to me in the interview after the game he talked about being “lost” most of last year.  He couldn’t figure out what was wrong, things weren’t feeling right, etc.  End of the year he said he started feeling “right” again.  Probably a combination of his ribs, eyesight, and finding failure for the first time.  Hopefully he has turned the corner.

You know what would be really great?  If he outpitches Johan this year.  Won’t happen (unless Johan gets hurt), but that would shut up another debate.

You know what would be really great?  If he outpitches Johan this year. 

Yeah, I guess that would be good.

With out without adjustment for one being in the majors and the other being in AAAA?

With out without adjustment for one being in the majors and the other being in AAAA?

For us with; e.g. using RSAA or Value Wins or something.  For the MSM obviously triple-crown stats, but Hughes won’t make it there unless Johan is hurt.

Well, I would imagine that was a shot in the arm for the Yanks. Now all you need is someone to pitch the 6th-8th innings, besides Melancon. We’ll give you Penny for Wang, straight up.

i love Hughes, but it’s one start. i think johan can sleep easy tonight.

Hughes is inevitably going to have some rocky starts mixed in there.

I thought that the “was he ever an ace?” line was a joke throwback to the times when that seemed to be every discussion about Wang.

I miss those days when that was all we had to worry about vis-ŕ-vis Wing.

I managed to spell vis-ŕ-vis correctly, but not Wang.

Le sigh.

Hey Brian, I forgot my login for the Knickerblogger site, but congrats on the new book. I never knew.

With all the talk about Joba in the pen, I hope tonight’s game is a decent pitchers duel. Edge to the Yankees, naturally.

I thought that the “was he ever an ace?” line was a joke…

And a rather obvious one at that.

The Laird strikeout in particular surprised me because it really looked like he blew him away, but the gun said only 88 MPH.

88 mph in a good spot can blow a lot of hitters away if you’ve put them in a position where they have to be worried about something else.

And BTW, we’re forgetting the most important question about Hughes: what happened to the goggles?  Inquiring minds want to know!

Hey Brian, I forgot my login for the Knickerblogger site, but congrats on the new book. I never knew.

Thanks, Villianx!

That probably gives me as good a reason as any to mention it to everyone else.

I had a book that came out yesterday from Penguin Books.

Here’s the post about it on Knickerblogger…

http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=1658

i love Hughes, but it’s one start. i think johan can sleep easy tonight.

Oh, I certainly know that.  That’s along the lines of, “I hope I win the lottery tonight”.  Yeah, could happen, but not likely.  I just want all the talk of, “they kept Hughes when they could have had Santana!!!!” to go away.  Easiest way for that is for Hughes to outpitch Santana.  Yeah, 2011 is the earliest it could happen.

And BTW, we’re forgetting the most important question about Hughes: what happened to the goggles?  Inquiring minds want to know!

I checked his blog but he hasn’t posted there since January.  I thought his problem was glare rather than near-sightedness, so I don’t know if contacts is the answer.  Pretty sure LASIK would have made the news.

What a difference a day makes!  Hughes was great last night and that lineup with Cabrera, Granderson,Guillen and Magglio in their park is not an easy task to deal with.  Joba will have his work cut out for him tonight.  I hope as you all do that this kind of command is the norm going forward for Phil.

Yesterday on many sites there was frusteration that it seems like the Red Sox front office is doing a better job than ours in retooling the Red Sox with younger and effective personel. It does seem like their graduates seem to be more ready to stick and make a difference after promotion. Examples would be Youk, Pedroia, Masterson, Ellsbury, Lester,Paps and Del Carmen.  I imagine there are some others but Craig Hansen would be one example of a set back so far for them.  At this time a year ago the Yankees would point to Wang,  Cano and Melky as their versions of successful advancement. It was too soon to rate Hughes, Kennedy and any others last April.  Since that time we know that Cano took a step back but not a fatal one, Wang was hurt and could still be hurt, Melky took a serious step back and was demoted, and Hughes and Kennedy were in a word “awful”  In each case the story isn’t over and in some cases injury was the reason, but there does seem to be a seeming differential.

This would seem to be as a result of one the following:
1) better athletes are being drafted in the first place which indicates an evaluation shortcoming in NY
or
2) better processing/coaching/development among the Sox making their people more ready for the majors
or
3) The New York media culture (worse than Boston?) building enormous expectation pressures and it erodes confidence in young players.

Personally, I have always wondered whether our development and evaluation staff is as savvy as Boston’s and would be interested in various opinions. My point is that our GM may be doing good getting people but are the coaches among the best in getting them into finished products?  Does the GM oversee all the various levels of evaluating,training and coaching?

I hate when Pete Abe makes sense:

If the biggest problem the Yankees have this season is what to do with all of their great starting pitchers, the second biggest problem will be what day to have the parade.

I turned off the game in frusstration at 0-0 after six and checked the score half hour later.  Wow!

My point is that our GM may be doing good getting people but are the coaches among the best in getting them into finished products?  Does the GM oversee all the various levels of evaluating,training and coaching?

For the second question, I think the answer is yes and no.  Pretty sure that Mark Newman (still the head of the minor leagues right?) reports to Cashman.  I wouldn’t doubt also if Cashman regularly talks to guys like Contreras, Connors, etc, and sometimes talks to the MiL managers.  I’m sure Cashman has a lot of input into organizational philosophy.  However, it would be impossible for him to have detailed knowledge of each individual coach or assistant in the orginization.  So for example (pure hypothesis), Billy Connor’s video-assistant may be his wife’s cousin, and doesn’t do a good job of getting Billy video.

I think part of it may be some bad luck too.  Some highly rated pitchers in the org that had little/no injury history prior were really derailed by injuries.  E.g. Sean Henn, Jeff Marquez, and so far Alan Horne.  Who knows if they would have been successful big-league pitchers w/o the injuries, but they would have had a better chance.  W/ some more pitching coming up and succeeding through the system in prior years, maybe an Ian Kennedy (and others) would have been traded in July 2007 for Mark Teixeira.

It does seem like their graduates seem to be more ready to stick and make a difference after promotion. Examples would be Youk, Pedroia, Masterson, Ellsbury, Lester,Paps and Del Carmen.

This is partly due to the simple fact that we tend to just look at where the players are right now, and ignore or gloss over the bumps in the road to getting there.  Youkilis was solid from the get go, but he didn’t have an all-star season until 2008 at age 29.  Ellsbury had a pretty rough 2008, and is sporting a .649 OPS right now.  Masterson and Lester are older than Chamberlain and Hughes, so they should be further along.  Delcarmen is 27, and was brought along pretty slowly, spending time in the minors as recently as 2007.  The Red Sox who is supposed to trump Hughes isn’t any of the guys you mentioned, but rather Clay Buchholz, whose 2008 set-back was quite similar to Hughes’.

So I agree with you on “seem to be.”  But things aren’t always what they seem.

Pete Abe says we shouldn’t give up on Gardner because Pedroia was terrible early in his career ignoring the fact that Pedroia was 22 and that the vast majority of players who are terrible early in their career, especially if they are 24/25 as Gardner was/is never amount to any thing.  I’d say that was a prime example of Sophistry.

Meanwhile Melky OBP 413 BG 254
      Melky OPS+168 BG 38!

Why do we just assume Wang automatically gets his spot back in 10 days?

This is a pitcher who hasn’t been able to run for 10 months.  I didn’t realize until recently that he couldn’t run; that’s a huge handicap.  A pitcher who can’t build up his lower body through running is at a huge disadvantage.

If Hughes is dealing, let Wang pitch out of the pen for a couple of weeks, or spend more time rehabbing and strengthening his lower body.

Yesterday on many sites there was frusteration that it seems like the Red Sox front office is doing a better job than ours in retooling the Red Sox with younger and effective personel. It does seem like their graduates seem to be more ready to stick and make a difference after promotion. Examples would be Youk, Pedroia, Masterson, Ellsbury, Lester,Paps and Del Carmen.

This is likely because the brainless announcers over the weekend were spewing this stuff left and right.

I won’t go down the line, but when you factor in age, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy, Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Coke, Gardner (and now Melanco) are very comparable to what they’ve got going on in Boston. One exception might be Youkilis, but don’t forget, he’s 30 years old.

I turned off the game in frusstration at 0-0 after six and checked the score half hour later. 

seriously, what a shitty game.  what with our young phenom throwing 6 innings of 2 hit ball and all.

i can see why you turned it off.

next time, the yankees should score all 10 runs in the first inning.