Girardi said in the postgame that Jeter is day to day. He’s not sure how he hurt the ankle, but the most likely cause was when Sheffield broke up the double play over the weekend.

A healthy Bruney backed up by David Roberston is a good start in re-building the beleaguered Yankee middle relief. 

I think when it’s all said and done, the bullpen will be firing on all cylinders with Rivera, Bruney, Robertson, Aceves, Melancon, (a hopefully healthy) Marte, and Hughes/Wang. Cashman won’t need to go outside the organization.

Crucial comeback with the Wanger on the hill tomorrow, although I think he’ll have a solid outing. If Jeter is even remotely banged up, sit him the rest of the series. We’re still playing the Nats here.

Don’t forget about Tomko!

The Yankees had 16 LOB tonight. With Wang on the mound, they need to be much more efficient and/or lucky with men on base.

Here’s why the Nats won’t pick up José Veras: they already have a version of him in Mike McDougal.  Those two guys don’t look the same, but they are identical twins from a pitching standpoint.

FWIW, Macdougal is 4 years older…

MacDougal had a most Veras-like line tonight.  0.1 innings, 2BB 1ER.  Watching him pitch, I felt the glee that opposing managers must feel when they Veras enter a game.

...when they see Veras enter a game…

managers must feel when they Veras enter a game.
...when they see Veras enter a game…

When Veras Verases up the game.

Off topic, I did the math and Hughes is on pace for ~140IP, which I guess would be alright assuming he was used for some innings in the post-season (if the Spaghetti Monster saw fit to put them in the post-season, that is).

However, he has only pitched 5 2/3 innings in the past 16 days. Essentially, they have done the equivalent of skipping two of his starts out of the workload he should have accumulated.

Anyone else think that its time for them to make a definitive decision on Hughes after Wang’s start tomorrow? If Wang looks really good, send Hughes down and call-up more BP help. (AJ’s suspension hearing has been pushed back to the 30th, so even if it doesn’t get reduced, they would still be able to call Hughes back up to make a spot start for AJ) If Wang looks bad, give Hughes his spot in the rotation and let Wang figure things out in the pen. Am I the only one worried Hughes won’t stretch out his innings this season?

If Wang looks bad, give Hughes his spot in the rotation and let Wang figure things out in the pen. Am I the only one worried Hughes won’t stretch out his innings this season?

I think that is exactly what they are going to do.  The only way Hughes doesn’t pitch tonight is if Wang goes at least 8 innings.  If Wang sucks and pitches 5 or less innings, Hughes will get at least 3 tonight, and get the start next week.  If Wang is fairly effective for 6 or 7, Hughes will pitch 1-3 innings (depending on how long Wang goes and whether they want Mo for the ninth), and be sent back down to Scranton.  Though I wouldn’t mind if they didn’t pitch Hughes and started him in SWB tomorrow since I’ll be at the game.

I think the only way it gets questionable is if Wang has a so-so start.  Like 5IP/3ER, or 6IP/4ER.  A game where he’s pitched well enough to earn another start, but not enough that you feel he’s back to being a top-end starter.  They’ll probably still send Hughes down since he should be able to come back and take Wang’s start a couple of turns from now.

Am I the only one who will be disappointed if Hughes gets sent down again? I’d still rather he pitch in a slightly limited role in the majors than waste his time dominating AAA hitters. I personally feel he should be in the rotation over Pettitte right now, but I know that will never happen.

Hughes is going to have be part of the equation with Joba also. He probably can’t go much over 150 IP, and is on pace for 159 IP, partly because he hasn’t been going deep into games. If those 4 and 5 inning starts becomes 6 and 7 inning starts, and then you want him around for (hopefully) the playoffs, he’s going to be up against his cap.

If Wang sucks and pitches 5 or less innings, Hughes will get at least 3 tonight, and get the start next week.

I’m not sure I agree with that middle part.  I mean, I do agree that it’s what should happen, but I get the feeling that he’s more likely to get just an inning if the Yankees are leading by just one or two runs.  If they’re ahead or behind by a bunch, then yeah, Girardi will let Hughes eat some innings.

Chamberlain is “on pace” for >160 innings right now, and that’s assuming that he doesn’t start going deeper into games.  Then of course, there’s the playoffs.  Personally, I’d give Hughes a couple of Joba’s starts if Wang does well tonight.  We want them both getting around 150+ innings, rather than one getting too many and the other too few, right?

They still might need Hughes to take a Burnett start eventually depending on the appeal, and yeah, Pettitte could probably stand to skip a turn too.  So Hughes should be able to get a decent amount of work at least until the All-Star break or so.  Should and will are not the same thing, of course.

[13]  I’d also like Hughes to stick around, but you can’t be ditching Pettitte at this point.  He hasn’t been bad, just walking a few too many, and a little homer happy.  I think he’ll be better once he adjusts to the new ball-park.

I would rather have Hughes in the rotation and Wang in the pen.  I just don’t have any confidence in Wang, they’re not locked in to him long term, and his pitching style was never likely to age well.  Hughes is better now, and more important going forward.

Let Wang pitch long relief, allowing Aceves to pitch later innings, and he’ll eventually get some starts when someone gets hurt, or you need to skip Joba/Hughes b/c of IP caps.

that’s a solid line, especially out of second base

Good for an OPS+ of 119.  The reigning AL MVP is at .296/.387/.389 for an OPS+ of 99.  I’d say that’s a solid line for second base.  Cano’s performance, if he keeps it up, is a good bit more than solid.  Even if he is streaky to the point of being infuriating at times.

Anyone else think that its time for them to make a definitive decision on Hughes after Wang’s start tomorrow?

I think Cashman said Hughes would be in the pen for two weeks, and then they would re-evaluate.  I assume if Wang pitches decently, they’ll send Hughes down to AAA to resume starting. If Wang tanks, you’ll probably see them swapped, with Wang as a long reliever.

Am I the only one who will be disappointed if Hughes gets sent down again? I’d still rather he pitch in a slightly limited role in the majors than waste his time dominating AAA hitters. I personally feel he should be in the rotation over Pettitte right now, but I know that will never happen.

While I enjoy watching Hughes pitch, I’d rather see him built up so he’s not being babied next year, and sending him down to AAA to further that is going to help long-term.  Also, the best scenario for the Yankees is Wang dominating tonight, because a big part of any expected Yankee success this year was predicated on Wang doing what he’d done over the last four years.

Pettitte’s been inconsistent, but he’s been useful.  He’s averaging 6.1 innings per start and the Yankees are 9-4 in his starts, so he’s kept them in the games for the most part.  I don’t know that we should expect Hughes to do much better than that right now.

I’m not sure I agree with that middle part.  I mean, I do agree that it’s what should happen, but I get the feeling that he’s more likely to get just an inning if the Yankees are leading by just one or two runs.

Sure, game situation matters, as does how well Hughes is pitching.  If it is a 6-5 game and Hughes K’s the side in the 6th on 9 pitches, he’ll probably get the 7th, etc.  I guess “at least 3” is a little reach.  I’m fairly confident Hughes will get the 6th and 7th, as long as he is pitching well.  Whether he gets the 8th and 9th will probably depend more on game-situation.  Hopefully it becomes Moot as Wang pitches a shutout over 7 innings, and Yanks are up 10-0 so Hughes can pitch the 8th/9th and head back to Scranton.

Then of course, there’s the playoffs.

I don’t remember if it was this year or last year that Cashman said the innings-limit on Joba was for the regular season only.  E.g. if he hits 150IP in the regular season, there won’t be limits with him in the post-season.  Hopefully the Yankees have 3 or 4 effective starters besides Joba and they can move him to the pen.  Both gives them the shut-down arm in the pen and keeps them from overusing him.

“Hopefully the Yankees have 3 or 4 effective starters besides Joba and they can move him to the pen.  Both gives them the shut-down arm in the pen and keeps them from overusing him. “

That would be nice, but I’m guessing they won’t have that luxury.  My guess is he’s starting game 2 (if they make the playoffs).

Good for an OPS+ of 119.  The reigning AL MVP is at .296/.387/.389 for an OPS+ of 99.

FanGraphs anyway has Cano for 14.2 Runs Above Replacement (6.9 RAA offense/-2.9 defense + RL + Position Adjustment).  Pedroia is 18.1 RAR (4.0 offense/3.5 defense).  I believe those numbers include yesterday for offense, and are as of Sunday for defense.  Visually, it looks like Cano should improve the number on defense.  I think Cano’s defense will be average or a little better by year end, and he will have eclipsed Pedroia.

That would be nice, but I’m guessing they won’t have that luxury.  My guess is he’s starting game 2 (if they make the playoffs).

Too soon to tell as we don’t know what is going to happen for the rest of the year.  I think you could almost guarantee that one of Burnett or Pettitte would be pitching well enough to take game 2 in the playoffs.  Especially as if they aren’t, do you really think the Yankees will be in the playoffs?

I don’t think it would surprise anyone if Chamberlain was the 2nd best Yankees starter by season’s end.

“Too soon to tell as we don’t know what is going to happen for the rest of the year.  I think you could almost guarantee that one of Burnett or Pettitte would be pitching well enough to take game 2 in the playoffs.  Especially as if they aren’t, do you really think the Yankees will be in the playoffs? “

Oh, I think Burnett and Pettitte will be 3,4 in the playoffs.

But, I’m thinking Joba is sporting a 3.25-3.50 ERA at season-end, vs. 4-4.5 for Burnett & Pettitte.  If Joba is as good as I think he will be, there’s no way you could take him out of the playoff rotation for Wang or Hughes.

He’s the one guy besides CC (and Burnett when he’s really on) that could easily give you the 7 IP 1 R outings that win playoff series.

Of course I hope 4 guys are pitching so well that Joba can relieve in the post-season, I just don’t see it as likely.

I think you could almost guarantee that one of Burnett or Pettitte would be pitching well enough to take game 2 in the playoffs.  Especially as if they aren’t, do you really think the Yankees will be in the playoffs?

Well, if the season ended today they’d be in the playoffs and we’d probably be real uneasy about sending either one out for Game 2. 

So if Wang pitches well and Hughes goes to Scranton…we get Melancon?

I sense it will become clear by Aug. 1 that Hughes is the superior option to Pettitte down the stretch.  I don’t know if that means Girardi yanks Pettitte from the rotation, especially given the incentive-laden contract.  He’d have to really get rocked (a la Moose summer of ‘07).  If he continues to consistently do 5IP/3ER, he probably sticks.

so well that Joba can relieve in the post-season

Joba the reliever > Joba the starter in the playoffs?  Smells of MSM…

Well, if the season ended today they’d be in the playoffs and we’d probably be real uneasy about sending either one out for Game 2.

Yeah, but given Joba’s inconsistency as well (sometimes unable to get out of the 5th), you could say the same about him.

I sense it will become clear by Aug. 1 that Hughes is the superior option to Pettitte down the stretch.

Perhaps, perhaps not.  If Pettitte’s problems right now are health-related (back), he could get better just as the season goes on, or if they can find a way to give him some rest.  Or he could get worse.  I wouldn’t write him off just yet.

Joba the reliever > Joba the starter in the playoffs?  Smells of MSM…

In the context of they have 3 starters pitching at (near anyway) the level Joba THIS YEAR can be expected to do, and one starter who is decent (and would match up with the 4th best starter of the other team), then yes.  Especially with all the days off, Joba could pitch 2 innings pretty much every day in the playoffs.  If they are confident they have starters who can do 6IP/3ER or better, why not?

Contrary to what it may seem though, I am *not* expecting that to happen.  I’m hoping it does.  I do expect one other pitcher to be ahead of Joba on the depth chart, maybe even two.  But Joba will definitely get a start in a 7 game series.

Pettitte’s been inconsistent, but he’s been useful.  He’s averaging 6.1 innings per start and the Yankees are 9-4 in his starts, so he’s kept them in the games for the most part.  I don’t know that we should expect Hughes to do much better than that right now.

I suspect that Pettitte’s back has been an ongoing issue and is at least partly responsible for his control problems, but that he is determined to pitch through it as a consequence of his toughness and his incentive laden contract. I wouldn’t be surprised if his performances continue to deteriorate, thereby necessitating putting Hughes in the rotation, assuming Wang’s issues haven’t already done that.

“Joba the reliever > Joba the starter in the playoffs?  Smells of MSM… “

Not at all, at least in my case.  I am unalterably opposed to removing Joba from the rotation.

I was just saying in the very, very unlikely scenario that you had 5 starters all pitching really well, and one has to go to the pen in the postseason, then Joba probably makes the most sense.  It’s predicated on the notion (however improbable) that you had four other starters pitching as well as Joba.

As I said before, my guess is Joba starts game 2 in the ALDS, and the decision isn’t particularly close.

“Yeah, but given Joba’s inconsistency as well (sometimes unable to get out of the 5th), you could say the same about him. “

Actually, in the playoffs this doesn’t worry me, as long as he doesn’t get lit-up.  You always have an extra starter in the postseason.

So, a 4+ IP, 110 pitch, 2 R outing isn’t really damaging.  You just bring Wang/Hughes/Pettitte in to bridge the gap.

BP has an interesting note on AJ (via Bronx Banter):

A.J. Burnett was supposed to avoid being a victim of Yankee Stadium v2.0, but that was before he stopped inducing significantly more grounders than fly balls. This year has seen Burnett’s G/F drop to its lowest point since 2002, and to go along with that he has also stopped getting hitters to pop up on fly balls. Sure, it doesn’t help that he’s faced the stiffest competition in the league according to this stat report (composite of batters he has faced have the highest OPS in the majors), but at the same time, Burnett’s not doing himself any favors by handing out free passes to 4.6 hitters per nine. Combine that with the homer rate, and it’s easy to see why Burnett hasn’t had an easy time of it for his new team.

To me, the thing about Cano is that his lack of on-base skills and lack of consistency—both in approach and results—keep him from being a roster centerpiece going forward, the kind of guy you could bat third in the lineup on a championship team.

I don’t understand, however, why his defensive numbers are negative.  He seems to have great range to me.

keep him from being a roster centerpiece going forward, the kind of guy you could bat third in the lineup on a championship team.

I’m not sure he’ll ever be that guy.  But if Damon is gone in ‘10, Cano slots in pretty nicely batting second.

I don’t think it would surprise anyone if Chamberlain was the 2nd best Yankees starter by season’s end.

Isn’t he the second best starter on the team right now?

If Pettitte’s problems right now are health-related (back), he could get better ... if they can find a way to give him some rest.

You mean like maybe skip him a time or two through the rotation?  I wonder who might be able to take his turn…

But if Damon is gone in ‘10, Cano slots in pretty nicely batting second.

If Cano’s OBP isn’t consistently above .350, I don’t want him batting second.

“Isn’t he the second best starter on the team right now? “

Probably, but SSS and all, someone could argue it.

By October I’m pretty sure it will be indisputable.

I’d rather see Swisher batting second.

Swisher would be cool in the #2 spot.

I also think he’d actually like batting there (remember he had a real problem with batting lead-off).

I’m sorry, I should say “he’d actually like batting there for the YANKEES.”

Since obviously #3 and #4 are sort of locked in.

I think Girardi is gonna lobby to keep Hughes in the pen unless Bruney shows that his health is no longer a concern. Phil is a hell of a weapon, when he comes into a game late and throws 94.

<i>I don’t understand, however, why his defensive numbers are negative.  He seems to have great range to me.<i>

I’ll second this.  I have seen him miss a few balls I thought he should’ve had.  But I’ve seen him get to several that I was surprised by (and think other 2Bs wouldn’t have gotten).  Lying eyes?  Maybe.

UZR thinks Jeter is really good and Cano is below average.  Hmm.

Damnit, I suck.

UZR thinks Jeter is really good and Cano is below average.  Hmm.

Might still be sample size?

“I think Girardi is gonna lobby to keep Hughes in the pen unless Bruney shows that his health is no longer a concern. Phil is a hell of a weapon, when he comes into a game late and throws 94.”

I agree. Unless the pen becomes far more dependable as a group and wins Girardi’s trust, I think he will opt for maintaining all the talent he can at the ML level. I personally think it’s smart. Hughes IMO is at a point where he needs nothing more than confidence that he’s better than major league hitters. Though he would get more innings in AAA and hopefully build endurance, for this time in particular, it seems both his own interests and more importantly the team’s, is better served at the MLB level. Don’t forget, to my knowledge, Phil is the last Yankee to win a post-season game-in relief.

How is it that so many teams seem to start their series against the Yanks with their best pitcher?  I think from a psychological standpoint that had CC started that first game or second in Fenway, the team may have supported him with more run support. The momentum thing does seem to have some effect on teams.

SG, has anyone to your knowledge conducted a study of OBA by batters that follow home runs? To me it seems like about 70% of all hitters either walk or get another hit immediately after someone homers.  I think that likely is an exaggeration on my part, but it just seems that way as I observe things.
It would be fun to see how that plays out over a season.

The bullpen doesn’t really need Hughes.  And if Pettitte is gone next year, the rotation will need 180 innings from him in 2010.  That’s the main consideration.  If Bruney is all right, he along with Robertson, Coke, Aceves and Melancon at some point should be fine in the middle innings.  Keeping Hughes around as a reliever and having him end the season with 90 innings hurts the team’s long term prospects.  If Wang cannot hold his spot in the rotation, Hughes should take it.  Otherwise, Hughes gets his innings at AAA.

it seems like about 70% of all hitters either walk or get another hit immediately after someone homers

This can’t possibly be true.  Home runs are rally killers, right? 

Cano is hitting well for a 2nd baseman.
However, he isn’t hitting like a number 5 hitter at least not in this lineup. Needs to drop down a couple slots.

OK, last nights lineup (player/bats/OPS+):

Jeter/R/119
Damon/L/128
Teixeira/S/160
Rodriguez/R/128
Cano/L/119
Posada/S/143
Matsui/L/117
Swisher/S/136
Cabrera/S/104

How much difference would it really make if you went Posada, Cano, Swisher, Matsui (or Posada, Matsui, Swisher, Cano)?

I would rather see Swisher batting fifth, but I don’t think the lineup order is really going to make that much difference.  On the other hand, I do hope Girardi gives Jeter a few days off so he can heal completely before returning rather than having him return to being awful in the field for the next two months with a nagging injury.

I believe I read a few years back that, aside from the lead-off hitter, the #5 batter leads off the most innings.  Therefore your #5 batter should be someone with good lead-off skills.  Therefore Gardner should bat fifth.

J/K.

Swisher.

I would rather see Swisher batting fifth…

Yeah, but you know they’re going to split up the lefties, so that would mean Posada batting seventh, which I really don’t like.

Would it make sense not to split the lefties up unless the other team had an absolute shut-down lefty reliever?  Seems Matsui holds his own against lefties fairly well, and Cano also only has a 38 point difference in his OPS for his platoon split.  Is it worth going with a less optimal lineup to avoid the platoon disadvantage for 2 hitters in a row once a game?

Can you define “less optimal”?  Or more accurately, please quantify how much less optimal.  And again, I said “you know they’re going to split up the lefties…”  I didn’t say that the should split up the lefties or that it’s more important to split up the lefties than to optimize the lineup in other ways.  It’s kind of like the conversation we were having a few days ago about being pissed at Girardi for not doing things that no other manager would do either.  Do we want to have a theoretical discussion of what might be optimal lineup construction or bullpen usage, or do we want to deal with reality?

Do we want to have a theoretical discussion of what might be optimal lineup construction or bullpen usage, or do we want to deal with reality?

I’d like to think that if we can define optimal we’ll be closer to seeing it implemented in reality.

Man, if BR would slot Melky in as the starting CF, the starting 9 would all have OPS+‘s over 100. Maybe they’re just f-ing with us?

I’d like to think that if we can define optimal we’ll be closer to seeing it implemented in reality.

Dreamer.

In other news, dog bites Farnsworth:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Break-it-up-It-s-a-dog-eat-reliever-world-for-K?urn=mlb,170834

Does anyone know what kind of park factor BR is using for the Yankees this year? Is it the last 3 years at OYS?

Oh, just read they do current season+previous two.

“Man, if BR would slot Melky in as the starting CF, the starting 9 would all have OPS+’s over 100. Maybe they’re just f-ing with us? “

I think B-Ref is giving Girardi some good advice.  I’m starting to feel pretty strongly that Gardner should be the starting CF.  Melky seems to be reverting right back to his normal self after a hot month.  The defensive and baserunning edge with Gardner is worth the slight hitting differential.

Of course his walk-off antics will probably buy Melky anothe 2 months, even if he OPS’s 600.

Gardner has still played 87 more innings that Cabrera in CF, which surprised me a little I guess.  I’m afraid that by the time Melky overtakes him, he won’t have an OPS+ over 100 anymore.

Oh, just read they do current season+previous two.

Even for new parks?  Not that going with the SSS would be a better idea.  It’s definitely an issue though.

Dreamer.

Paul Depodesta notes in his blog a few of his favorite websites.  Some of them are similar to this one.  It wouldn’t surprise me of one of Cashman’s analytical minions cruises sites like RLYW looking for free market research and/or analysis.

Why do you think I was so unoriginal with “John_Michael?”  That way it’s easier for Cashman to find me after he is throughly impressed with my insights.

“FanGraphs anyway has Cano for 14.2 Runs Above Replacement (6.9 RAA offense/-2.9 defense + RL + Position Adjustment).  Pedroia is 18.1 RAR (4.0 offense/3.5 defense).”

Every time I look at their numbers in detail I get confused.  They have Replacement for Cano at 9.2, for Pedroia at 9.6.  The have Positional at 1.0 for Cano, at 0.9 for Pedroia.  They seem to have similar innings - ok, Cano has 4% more, apparently the source of 9.6/9.2, though this seems like a penalty for being in the field.

Yeah, that’s why I wasn’t sure with the new park. Couldn’t find a Yankees-specific answer.

throughly impressed with my insights.

Hopefully he doesn’t care about spelling tough…

tough…

I suck today.

Just found it. They are giving NYS a baseline 100 for pitching and batting this season.

Do we want to have a theoretical discussion of what might be optimal lineup construction or bullpen usage, or do we want to deal with reality?

I was only talking theoretical.  I wasn’t positing that it would be better, just wondering.  It wasn’t a challenge or an assertion.

Perhaps I missed a link to the Yankees lineup per Baseball Reference above.  Anyway, thanks for the pointer, I did not know that was available there (I’ve been using the sports.yahoo.com/mlb team page).

Every time I look at their numbers in detail I get confused.  They have Replacement for Cano at 9.2, for Pedroia at 9.6.  The have Positional at 1.0 for Cano, at 0.9 for Pedroia.  They seem to have similar innings - ok, Cano has 4% more, apparently the source of 9.6/9.2, though this seems like a penalty for being in the field.

Pedroia has 11 more PA.  My *guess* is that they give the positional adjustment based on playing-time at the position, so they probably use innings.  That makes sense so that they can control for players that play multiple positions in a game.  Replacement-level is probably based on playing-time at bat, hence plate-appearances.  This makes sense why Pedroia gets a larger adjustment for replacement-level (more PA’s), but Cano gets a larger adjustment for position (more innings).

Keeping Hughes around as a reliever and having him end the season with 90 innings hurts the team’s long term prospects.  If Wang cannot hold his spot in the rotation, Hughes should take it.  Otherwise, Hughes gets his innings at AAA.

100% agree (and selfishly want to see Hughes help SWB Yankees win another Cup).  Whether due to a starter not performing, injury, schedule, etc, Hughes will get some more starts in the majors this year to continue his development.  And if on August 31st the bullpen is still having problems and Hughes has a total of 140 innings at that point, sure put him in the bullpen then.  But they will need to replace at least one starter next year, maybe two.  Unless you are ready to hand the reigns to IPK again - and while I think he would do OK I’d rather he have a year like Hughes is having now first - or want to risk the FA market again, you need Hughes to have 150+ innings this year.

“Pedroia has 11 more PA.”

And 288/277 - 1 is 4%, thanks.  The approx 22 PA swing given the innings disparity is what, Pedroia hitting higher in the order?

I’m not sure I like this way of presenting the data but whatever, the info is there.

It wasn’t a challenge or an assertion.

Neither was mine.  IOW, it was as much an actual question as a rhetorical one.  And I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with the theoretical.  As long as we don’t get ourselves too worked up about the theoretical optimal not coming to pass in the real world.

Yeah.  I guess mine was based on a lack of complete knowledge of “splitting the lefties” strategy.  Is there something else gained other than the late-inning platoon disadvantage?  I couldn’t think of anything else, but that hardly means anything.

And then that thinking progressed to thinking about whether this disadvantage really meant anything if the opposing team lacked a “good” lefty reliever.  If all they’re throwing out there is Ron Villone, does it matter?

My thinking for “optimal lineup” would be the lineup that you’d create in an achiral environment.  If you ignored the handedness of the batters, what would the lineup you would make?  Is the difference between this lineup and the “split up the lefties” optimal lineup larger or smaller than the tactical advantage of not allowing the LOOGY to face multiple lefties in a row if that situation comes up?  Obviously it’s something that would only matter in the aggregate of an entire season.  Probably wouldn’t matter, just something I was thinking of.

IE and Mike: Not that it will likely matter, but I could support sending Hughes down if the bullpen is as sound as you think. I don’t think it is as yet. Bruney is a big “if” as far as holding up and you have to assume he’ll be used sparingly and for short stints as they monitor him. Coke and Aceves are the only other guys to my knowledge that Girardi has much confidence in.  Robertson has done good but over a small sample.  If we have very many more 5 inning starts, the team can’t do 3-4 innings on consecutives nights with just four guys besides Mo.  I would think it wise to see if Bruney is here to stay, before shipping Phil down.

I could support Mike’s theory, but my gut tells me Boston is going to be tough all summer and we will need a solid, rested and confident bullpen to stay near them.

IE, your point about playing for the future has merit, but the team has a number of vets and along with the ownership and Girardi,  as to policy, the future will be now.

If Wang doesn’t materialize as we remember him, all this discussion is mute.

Abraham says “patience is not a virtue” for Cano, and compares his lack of walks to Yogi Berra, because Berra walked “only” 44 times in 594 PA in one of his MVP years.  Berra had over 50 BB/600 PA for his career.  Cano has had barely 25 BB/600 PA so far in his.  Why quibble over a factor of two?

Did the Yankees effectively wake up Papi? Beginning to appear so. Maybe we can play some intersquad games with A-Rod?

Is there something else gained other than the late-inning platoon disadvantage?

Many (most?) pitchers approach hitters of different handedness differently.  Depending on the particular pitcher, it might be advantageous to make the guy change what he’s throwing every other hitter.  Or there might be more gained by bunching your lefties against some right-handed pitchers.  Would that advantage outweigh the susceptibility to a LOOGY in the late innings?  I guess it depends on their bullpen and your bench.

Did the Yankees effectively wake up Papi?

It’s one game.  He had a single, a walk, and two strikeouts in the Philadelphia series.  Yeah he only started one of those games, but he was 4-11 with a HR in the Texas series before the Yankees splashed water on him.  Seems more likely that he’s just slowly getting back to being a good hitter, if not his former self.

MC, I think you are taking Abe out of context. I think he is saying that Cano needs to figure out the patience part.

Papi doesn’t like our pity.

Re batting order,

There is also some anecdotal evidence that certain player feel more comfortable in certain lineup spots.  And also with staying in a certain spot.  Chances are the effect of this - if any - is small.  But possibly large enough to counter the other small theoretical benefit of an optimal non-platoon advantage roster.

I guess if you add it all up, if your lineup is basically sound - you aren’t batting your worst hitter first and your best hitter last - it probably doesn’t matter much, and you should resist tinkering.  That’s my opinion anyway.

If Wang doesn’t materialize as we remember him, all this discussion is mute.

Interestingly enough, if Wang *does* materialize, I think it is moot as well.  Because the Wang as we remember him would regularly give 7 quality innings, minimizing the need for extra help in the pen.

I could however support (since you know Cashman values my opinion!) keeping Hughes up one more turn through the rotation.  This allows them to verify Wang’s improvement is sustainable, Pettitte’s health, Bruney’s health, etc.  And it shouldn’t set him back much if he misses one start in the minors and gets 6 IP in the next couple of weeks as oppose to 12.  But past the end of June, he needs to be starting somewhere.

I think he is saying that Cano needs to figure out the patience part.

Really?  I did read the whole post, not just the blurb I responded to, and that’s not the impression I got at all.  Might have to look at it again.  Or not.

I could however support (since you know Cashman values my opinion!) keeping Hughes up one more turn through the rotation.  This allows them to verify Wang’s improvement is sustainable, Pettitte’s health, Bruney’s health, etc.

I, OTOH, support keeping him up for three more turns, and giving him three starts—one of Pettitte’s, one of Chamberlain’s, and one of Burnett’s (when the inevitable hearing finally happens and he has to serve his five-game-instead-of-six suspension).

Really?  I did read the whole post, not just the blurb I responded to, and that’s not the impression I got at all.  Might have to look at it again.  Or not.

I got nothing against Abe, but yeah, I’m not jumping to look over his post again either.  We can call it a toss up, and say he wasn’t clear in what he wrote. Leave it at that.

Cano is frustrating though, ain’t he? I mean, his line is pretty awesome, but there shouldn’t be any reason he’s not awesome-er.

Damon LF
Swisher RF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Cano 2B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Cabrera CF
Pena SS

Even less optimal owing to Jeter’s ankle.  Optimization opportunities limited since Swisher can’t bat both second and fifth.  And cloning technology also remains suboptimal.

This Lannan kid is a pretty decent pitcher.  Yes, their bullpen sucks, but they’re likely to be into ours long before we’re into theirs.  I’m not overly optimistic.

Cano is frustrating though, ain’t he?

Infuriatingly streaky indeed.  Then again, we can’t expect him to go four for four every game.  I’m pretty sure that would be some kind of record.

Then again, we can’t expect him to go four for four every game

If Cano goes four for four for four seasons straight, I’d be all for it.

4:01 p.m.: Jeter sent for MRI. He wanted to play tonight, however.

I can wait for:

7/16/2078 - Jeter sent for embalming.  He wanted to play tonight, however.

“This Lannan kid is a pretty decent pitcher.  Yes, their bullpen sucks, but they’re likely to be into ours long before we’re into theirs.  I’m not overly optimistic. “

I hope they don’t allow Wang to do too much damage if he’s off.  You just can’t lose to the Nats.

Hopefully, “into our bullpen” means it’s no worse than 3-0, and Hughes is pitching.  I think the offense can get 3 runs back in the last 5-6 innings against Lannan and the bullpen of teh suck.

This Lannan kid is a pretty decent pitcher.  Yes, their bullpen sucks, but they’re likely to be into ours long before we’re into theirs.  I’m not overly optimistic.

I agree MC-it’s too bad Jeter isn’t available as he likes lefties

Hopefully, “into our bullpen” means it’s no worse than 3-0

Agree wholeheartedly with this. Wang should have very little “slack” no pun intended. Do they bring in Hughes say in the 5th if it’s 3-0?

See the bottom graph for data regarding the claim that Wang’s release point has moved.  As far as I know the Yankees haven’t said, “Everything’s ok with his mechanics, he just needs to execute while gaining strength and confidence” - if he’s not throwing from the correct point, I don’t see what’s gained by starting him.

Nightmare thought what if Poopy winds up having a better season then Arod

no pun intended

Why not?

As far as I know the Yankees haven’t said, “Everything’s ok with his mechanics, he just needs to execute while gaining strength and confidence”...

I haven’t kept up on the coaching commentary recently, but early on Eiland’s line was that Wang’s mechanics were just fine in his bullpen sessions and not so fine during the games.

...- if he’s not throwing from the correct point, I don’t see what’s gained by starting him.

Eiland has repeatedly said that Wang’s release point is where it should be in the pen during pregame warm ups, but that he loses it during games. A possible subtext is that Eiland is referring to a confidence issue which may or may not be a way of deflecting responsibility from his inability to fix him.

No matter what they truth is, the organization put themselves in a precarious position when they abruptly terminated his rehab assignment when Joba got hit on the knee by a LD.

As a result, they have believed that the only way to get Wang sufficient innings is to start him, even if it made winning those games less likely.

Ok, thanks.  Then I don’t mind him starting as much.  If he was lost in phase space then he should be in the minors.  If he just needs to focus or whatever then fine, at any moment he might revert to being a good starter.  If he was maintaining his mechanics out of the pen then maybe they should have left him there for a while, put him on a regular schedule with e.g. Hughes, and do an extra inning per turn.

MRI clean on Jeter:

Derek Jeter just had an MRI and everything was clean, the Yankees said. Jeter said he’s sore but wanted to play tonight and expects to play Thursday afternoon.

SG, has anyone to your knowledge conducted a study of OBA by batters that follow home runs? To me it seems like about 70% of all hitters either walk or get another hit immediately after someone homers.

I’m not sure, although I seem to recall reading something about how batters do typically hit better after the prior batter homers.  I’ll see if I can find wherever I read that.

Nightmare thought what if Poopy winds up having a better season then Arod

Then the Yanks finish behind the Sox. OK, I’d be curious about how this would play out in simulations, but we’re talking about the Yankees’ largest advantage versus one of our largest vulnerabilities. I’m not holding my breath here, but if that’s what happens, yay!