I swear, they won yesterday and he thought it was because of his amazing managerial moves so he decided to take it up a notch.

What the hell can you say about Girardi - Is there any way to avoid the conclusion that he threw this game away
1 - Letting Pettitte pitch to Hunter and Vlad
2 - Getting outsmarted by Scoscia on the Gardner atempted SB.
3 - But Robertson looked GREAT.

Man, How can you have any faith whatsoever in Girardi?

Robertson faced TWO BATTERS!!!! Was showing NO SIGNS OF FATIGUE!!!

Now we have CC on 3 days rest after two extra-inning games.

At least we’re not up 3-0 and don’t have to hear about 2004 incessantly? I got nothing.

Just like with park factors, there should be a payroll factor with with to evaluate managers.

Funny I logged on for the answer, and all there is here is…more questions????

There is absolutely no excuse at all for that move.  There’s no justification.  It’s one thing to play you’re assuming you’re going to win in the next inning.  But that still doesn’t explain taking out a pitcher who’s showing great stuff for a guy who’s been iffy for months.  What kind of a move is that?

If anyone watches the YES postgame, feel free to share what his explanation is. Because I’m baffled.

Welcome to The Wonderful World of Joe’s Pitching Carousel.

Joe Girardi, proprieter.

It’s stupifying.  For the most part, the manager’s job is to write the lineups and let the players win or lose the game.  Girardi’s overmanaging and the Yankees have been lucky that it didn’t come back to bite them in the ass.

Until today.

I thought it was amazing that he let Hughes pitch more than one inning, and was encouraged.  But man if he didn’t make one of the most asinine pitching changes ever in the 11th.

I’m almost tempted to watch the postgame to hear what possible justification he could have for it, but I fear it’s going to end with a broken television so I’m heading out to cool off.

Girardi, Swisher, Joba, and Aceves should all be publicly flogged by Yankee fans.

Trying to look on the bright side: they weren’t favored to win, still up 2-0, still have CC going twice…

Don’t know if that can overcome WOE and a jackass for a manager.

[7] He’ll say matchups (based on microscopic samples, of course).

Things like Grady Little keeping Pedro in and Jim Tracy letting Street pitch to Howard actually have their defenses. This has none

up 2-1*. Sigh.

[7], [9] He just said in his press conference that he liked the match up better with Aceves than with Robertson.

Argh.

Kendrick vs. Robertson:

1-2, K, 2-run single.

So, not even really an overreacting-to-a-small-sample-size thing. If he were 3-3 or something, it still would have been stupid and wrong, but I’d be able to see why a manager would change pitchers.

Other spin: Even if they had scored in the 12th, Aceves would have come in anyway, and blown it then? Again…got nothing. Fuck you, Girardi.

The only solace I have is in thinking of Girardi with his balls caught quite literally in a vice.  God, that’s a pleasant image.

Even with the matchup - That was his 2nd last pitcher and we had no offense left. It’s almost as if he wanted to concede this game and get on the CC tomorrow

That was overmanaging. But I’m not going to partake in too much freaking out. I still like their chances long-term, and hopefully that will help teach Joe not to go crazy with the pitching changes.

I guess it’s hard to win 11 in a row in the playoffs? God damn nothing is working.

[19] I think there is a difference between freaking out and venting. They’ll win the WS in spite of Girardi.

[21] - Maybe they’ll win but unless you’re convinced that this was a rookie brain cramp, he’s not the guy we want in the future.

Please someone talk me off the ledge. I do not feel good about this series.

As I said in the game thread, one more horrible move like that and I would seriously fire Girardi.

Hmmm, that seems to have hurt. I am glad I missed all of that. If SG freaks out like this, then Girardi must have royally screwed up.

I am very skeptical of managers that change relievers frequently. Sometimes you get a break, sometimes things turn out this way, particularly when you are not batting last.

I like our chances tomorrow, but that was regardless of the outcome of this game. Hopefully they take the game tomorrow, it is their best chance to win one in Anaheim.

23- CC two more times? Win both and move on. Or win one and either AJ’s or Andy’s next.

[23] The Yankees are still very likely to win the series with a 2-1 lead and CC going tomorrow.  Plus the Yankees were expected to lose this game anyway.

Trying to look on the bright side: they weren’t favored to win, still up 2-0, still have CC going twice…

That does make me feel a little better.  Thanks.

But WTF!?

He just said in his press conference that he liked the match up better with Aceves than with Robertson.

Oh, I’m so happy the Yankees’ postseason fate rests upon the unsupported whims of Girardi.

I would have preferred some bullshit about Robertson being on a strict pitch count or something.

I’m trying to cool down by reading Yankees blogs, but it’s only making things worse.  I feel bad for my students whose papers I’m about to grade…

To SG’s credit, I do understand more what he was so upset about after game 2.  Todays moves were even weirder though.

Seven relievers for 4.2 IP. That is just awesome use of bullpen arms.

No offense to Aceves, but it’s one hell of a slap in the face to Robertson to say that you like any matchup better with Alfredo.

One good thing for me, I can cut my hair now.  Been holding off ever since the postseason started, and it was getting long even then.

He just said in his press conference that he liked the match up better with Aceves than with Robertson.

I’m sure that was his rationale for burning Coke when Marte was already in the game. He’s like a rich kid at Christmas with too many toys.

I thought the mistake was leaving Joba in, but I guess we’re over the quaint idea that Joba in the Pen >>>> Joba in the rotation.

I didn’t like yanking Robertson (how much did he pitch on Sunday morning?) but that’s my only complaint against Girardi.

Yankee “batters” on the other hand sucked shit./

Girardi was the best bullpen manager in baseball this season. The stats back it up. This was a mistake, but if you actually think Girardi is a bad bullpen manager, and ‘not the guy we want in the future’ you’re idiotic.

And before someone says “Torre wouldn’t have done that”, Joe Torre would have used Gaudin instead of Rivera because you don’t use your closer in a tie game on the road, and Gaudin can pitch for a long time. Also, Hughes would be on the DL scheduled for TJ surgery.

It’s a bad move. I’m pretty sure he knows it, but name me one guy who will go up there 10 minutes after the fact and admit that. Managers make bad moves, just like every other manager in the game. Billy Martin, an absolutely brilliant manager, outsmarted himself and made boneheaded moves as well. Joe Girardi doesn’t go from being a good manager to a bad manager based off one bad move.

I’ve writen this before here. Once again, Girardi took part in what Bill James calls a manager’s quest for the one pitcher who doesn’t have it on that day. Well, Joe found his man.

[30]  My students did well: graded over the weekend.

Alright ladies. He fucked up. Deal with it.
We’re still up 2 to 1. We play tomorrow we win. Dassit.

[37] That’s a pretty fair defense, but I think we’d all like to see full innings instead of monkeying around for advantage.  I mean, you don’t like the matchup with Kendrick?  Fine, just keep him in the yard and work to Jeff “Lumber Co.” Mathis.  There’s just too much tinkering.  And it’s pretty hard to pretend that anyone in the world thought Aceves would look remotely as good as Robertson was.  Hell, Robertson could have pitched to a few more hitters the way he looked.

You can’t abuse your bullpen when your starter goes eight. I expect Hoss Sabathia to show up in Game 4 and get the job done.

... assuming Girardi doesn’t like playing without at DH so much he pencils CC into the nine spot.

“a bad move” is an extremely annoying understatement. It cost them the game, and dozens of people here saw it coming. It would be “a bad move” if he had SOME rationale other than “we liked the matchup better.”

Girardi was the best bullpen manager in baseball this season. The stats back it up. This was a mistake, but if you actually think Girardi is a bad bullpen manager, and ‘not the guy we want in the future’ you’re idiotic.

If you don’t realize that having Mo and Hughes makes any manager better at bullpen management, I think you’re projecting.

Oh yes, Joba fucking sucks.

I blame Don, that’s who I blame, for not posting during the game.

I apologize.

Thank you.

Why, you’re welcome.

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that it cost them the game totally.  I don’t think a one run lead would have been safe with Aceves having to come in against better hitters in the next inning.  I mean, yes, it totally cost the game at that moment, but I don’t think it’s as though the win expectancy was much above 40% at any point after the 9th

Meanwhile, Bob’s Big Boy has cornered Carousel Joe. Something about DH’ing for Teix and allowing the rotund one to bat on the morrow.

To be continued….........

BTW in case I’ve not mentioned this….Jobber fucking sucks.

Joba does need to be bumped down the bullpen ledger in favor of Robertson.

Girardi’s move did not cost the Yankees the game. What a stupid thing to say. Pettitte giving up a homerun to Guererro had much more to do with it. The Yankees choking when runners are on third with less than two outs also had much more to do with it. I’m not going to say Girardi was a net positive today, but he’s very, very far from being the ‘blame of the game’. If you didn’t notice, the Yankees still had to score a run and pitch another scoreless inning to win. They wouldn’t have been in that situation had many others not spit the bit. Also, although it’s the obvious move, you need to give credit to Girardi for bringing in Rivera in the 9th, on the road, game tied, no outs, with a runner on second. Name me another manager in the game who would do that.

[50] Me.

[45] Joba says only good things about you, thurm.

I don’t know why they just don’t have SG manage the team. I’m serious.

I kind of feel like crying.  Does that make me less of a man?
Wait no, it’s vomit.  I feel like vomiting.
That’s manly.

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that it cost them the game totally.

Does anyone really think that? It’s just that the final move was so unnecessary.

Andrew, are you Carousel Joe’s relative?

I think there is a difference between freaking out and venting.

Absolutely.  And yet, I’d still have to say that people are over-reacting to what Girardi did in that game.  I would not have thought that possible.

The thing we have to remember with our second-guessing (even if we’re quick enough about it to make first-guessing) is that we never get to find out how the other move (or non-move) would have played out.  For all we know, Abreu would have homered off of Marte.  Etc, Etc.

And as for the matchup thing, the comment about “different kinds of stuff for different kinds of hitters” would seem to indicate that it was not about small head-to-head sample sizes.

Finally, part of this has to be on the offense.  They squandered plenty of chances.

[55] I don’t know.  “Cost them the game” sounds like that.  Just preempting it, maybe

[37] Girardi’s greatest strength as a manager of the bullpen is that he trusts more than 1 or 2 pitchers to get the job done, something Torre never did.

But these last two games have been riddled with questionable tactical decisions about bullpen usage, in a way consistent with Girardi’s proclivity for making tactical and personnel decisions that are too clever by half… starting Molina, carrying Guzman, not carrying Hinske, etc, etc.

Jonathan, find a mouse to kill. That’s manly.

[50] Yeah, Andrew, I agree Girardi bringing in Rivera in the 10th was the optimal move and it saved the game.  I didn’t agree at all with Aceves, but as you mentioned it wasn’t the only reason they lost.  Girardi has been a positive so far this season; hopefully he just uses the guys with the best stuff from now on.

assuming Girardi doesn’t like playing without at DH so much he pencils CC into the nine spot.

This might actually help.  We all know that CC is pretty good with the stick, but I bet he’s got a better chance of scoring from third on a medium deep fly ball than Matsui.

I don’t blame Girardi for the pitch that Pettitte threw to Vlad, nor do I blame him for the unbalanced production from this lineup.

[52] That Jonathan Winters looking douchebag would be very unsafe in the house of Thurmm the Katt.
How great was Mo? Mrs OTF looked at me and said ” You said no doubt halo runs”
I mumbled something about mans inability to predict baseball.

It breaks your heart.  It is designed to break your heart.

...in that, there is a rough justice, and a reminder to the Yankees of how slight and fragile are the circumstances that exalt one group of human beings over another.

A. Bart

You know the decision was terrible when NOone is arguing for it, just arguing about degrees of complaints.

That’s a terrible move by Girardi.

I was stunned by the move, and as you can see from the chatter, so was everyone at the time the move was made.

Kendrick could have homered off of Robertson, and I assure you, NO ONE would have said, “Why didn’t Girardi bring in Aceves to face Kendrick?”

Such an annoying move by Giradi.

Ah well, the Yanks are still in good shape!

I bet he’s got a better chance of scoring from third on a medium deep fly ball than Matsui.

I bet the catcher won’t be blocking the plate if he sees CC bearing down on him!

[63]  Well, that’s just you. 

I’d have brought Robertson in to pitch to Vlad in the sixth.  But I have a tendency to over-manage.

Kendrick could have homered off of Robertson, and I assure you, NO ONE would have said, “Why didn’t Girardi bring in Aceves to face Kendrick?”

As a matter of fact, I was quite worried about Kendrick facing Robertson, although I’ll be damned if I can tell you why.  I was wishing that Scioscia had made the double-switch that McCarver assured us he was going to when Izturis pinch-ran.

hey guys are some of the letters in the “mismanagement” image red or are my eyes giving me trouble?

As a matter of fact, I was quite worried about Kendrick facing Robertson, although I’ll be damned if I can tell you why. 

Which is certainly fair enough (any time Kendrick bats against the Yanks I’m a bit worried), but would you have said “Man, why didn’t Girardi bring in Aceves to face Kendrick?” No, right?

Girardi certainly farnsed it up today, but I think he’ll learn from it.  He largely did during the regular season.  As a result of today, I think Robertson will move up the totem pole, Aceves and Joba will move down, and we’ll see better deployment coming up.  I didn’t expect the Yanks to sweep…they should have won today, true, but they squandered chances much like the Angels did in the first couple of games, and so fair enough.  I like their chances tomorrow and the game after that, and I like the offense to wake up and play like they did the rest of the year.  Plus, I’ll bet they’re pissed.

He just said in his press conference that he liked the match up better with Aceves than with Robertson.

Did anyone else see the shot on fox of him looking through a big print-out binder?  I had a feeling something stupid was about to happen after that.

If Aceves gets Kendrick or Mathis out, no one cares.

[72] He shouldn’t have to <u>learn</u> in the ALCS.

[74] Yeah, I agree. Let’s all relax. I think that at this point Girardi better friggin realize that Aceves is not to be trusted unless absolutely necessary, and that Joba is not 2007 Joba right now. If he is incapable of learning that lesson and keeps rolling those guys out there before it is necessary, then we should all freak out. But right now, maybe we should give the guy the benefit of the doubt, even if we wholeheartedly thought it was a dumb move even before Mathis rocked him.

If Aceves gets Kendrick or Mathis out, no one cares.

Folks were (rightfully, I think) complaining before Aceves even got in there.

It was just a plain ol’ bad move, no matter if Aceves got Kendrick or Mathis.

But right now, maybe we should give the guy the benefit of the doubt, even if we wholeheartedly thought it was a dumb move even before Mathis rocked him.

Sure.

I’m not too worried over all, especially because, yeah, Robertson looks like he’ll be moving up the depth charts.

There really is no defending that move. Although the one defense is that it is part of a process he has been using (and succeeding with) all season to determine which reliever to bring in, if it’s not Hughes or Rivera. Of course, that means they’re not going to change the process, so I kind of hope that’s not it.

I don’t blame Joe at all for using his LOOGYs for one batter only. Coke is more unreliable than Aceves when not pitching against lefties. Marte is simply unreliable, but he could be dynamite against lefties as well (or just dynamite against a hitter like Abreu, which would again be part of that ‘stuff matchup’ process), I don’t have the data in front of me.

To paraphrase a top 40 hit, I am glad that the change was made uptown, and the big man joined the band.

If Aceves gets Kendrick or Mathis out, no one cares.

I think the point is that Robertson, especially based on how he was pitching today, is more likely to get Kendrick or Mathis out than Aceves.

Isn’t the consensus that Aceves was pitching over his head in the first half of the season and has mediocre stuff? While Robertson has potential to be a future closer, has electric stuff, and lead the league in K/9?

The Angels loom.

The most amazing thing is not only did Girardi insanely over-manage in this game, he also was able to under-manage previous to that by letting Pettitte face Hunter and Vlad. Ab-so-fuck-ing-lute-ly amazing.

Isn’t the consensus that Aceves was pitching over his head in the first half of the season and has mediocre stuff? While Robertson has potential to be a future closer, has electric stuff, and lead the league in K/9?

Yeah, the move is indefensible, we all know that. But it is true that Aceves was probably coming in the next inning anyway, because Robertson is coming off an elbow injury. So Aceves might blow the game anyway, just in a way that makes us all a little bit less insane. As long as Girardi comes to learn now that Robertson is better than Aceves, then maybe none of this really mattered.

Yeah, it’s not like Aceves is so goddawful that he should never be used at all.

Him pitching in the 12th would be completely reasonable (especially if Teix or A-Rod did something in the top of the inning). Just not the 11th with Robertson pitching so well.

As bad as the Robertson move was, I was insanely angered when Joe came sprinting out of the dugout during the Vlad AB.  2 stikes, 2 outs, Pettitte & Jorge are getting some bad looking swings off the breaking ball, I am thinking eventually Vlad is going to miss one (he’s swinging at everything), or he’s going to top one for a ground ball.  Then I see Joe “Panicky Idiot #27” Girardi running out…

He couldn’t just call the pitch from the dugout? He couldn’t send Eiland out there? I don’t know what kind of locker room speech he gave him, but I was thinking “Why? Pettitte looks fine, why is he F-ing up the rhythm one pitch away?” 

Grrrr….

I’ve decided that this is the worst loss the Yankees will have in this postseason.  Agreed?
Then it’s decided.

Checking my email a few minutes ago I got my first smile since the end of the game:

Earlier today, an email promoting Baltimore Orioles postseason tickets was sent to you. This, unfortunately, was a mistake. We regret the error and apologize for any inconvenience or confusion this may have caused.

Thousands of Orioles fans got an email from Stub Hub today imploring them to buy playoff tickets. That’s pretty funny, to me at least. But then again I’m an Aceveshole.

Girardi can begin to win me back (not that he cares) if starts Gardner tomorrow.

Girardi can begin to win me back (not that he cares) if starts Gardner tomorrow.

I’m mildly annoyed at him running into the pitch out, but oh well.

[86] is a wierd complaint.

it was a big spot.  he’s reminding Pettitte to not make one too good.  Andy did it anyway.  are you implying he “jinxed” him?

no excuse for the 11th though, that was just a terrible mistake.

why would he start Gardner against the lefty Kazmir?

i mean, Melky is no great shakes, but it’s simply not going to happen.

[90] Actually, I just remembered that Kazmir is starting, so it’s not going to happen (Melky’s splits are: .400   .400   .500   .900 against him, albeit in 20 AB) unless Girardi decides to sit Swisher (.185   .241   .296   .538 in 27 AB). Gardner is 1-6 against him with 3 Ks.

[86] is a wierd complaint.

it was a big spot.  he’s reminding Pettitte to not make one too good.  Andy did it anyway.  are you implying he “jinxed” him?

I’m saying why? Did Andy look like he needed reminding not to throw “too good” a pitch? He was thowing junk in the dirt that Vlad was swinging at.  Did he also remind him to tie his shoes and look both ways before crossing the street? Honestly, in that spot, he’s not in trouble.  Let him finish.  He’s not a rookie, for chrissakes.  Grrrr

why would he start Gardner against the lefty Kazmir?

I didn’t see your post when I hit submit. You’re right, although Swisher is squeezing the bat into sawdust.

Forget it.  I’m not annoyed any more.  Yeah, Joe made a dumb move, but the hitters shouldn’t have put him in that spot.  I think we’ll win tomorrow.  7-5.  Sabathia won’t be great, but Tex will finally get a big rip.  And I think a HR from someone in the bottom of the order.

and i’m saying who cares?  you’ve never seen a manager come out to talk to a pitcher in a big spot?  doesn’t this happen all the time?

i just think of all things to complain about, i wouldn’t have even thought of this.

but, now i see that the guy on LoHud mentioned it too, so maybe it’s just me.

And I think a HR from someone in the bottom of the order.

Given that I want to play Gardner over him, probably Swisher.

[75]  Don, I completely agree he shouldn’t have to learn at this point in the season, and I’d guess that if the majority of the commenters on this blog were allowed to be the voice inside Joe G.‘s head that told him to make his bullpen moves, the Yanks would be better off for it.  But we’re not, and I’m just hoping he will learn, and actually hopeful he will, based on what I’ve observed this season.  To be sure, I’m also on board with the “Joe G. flailed today” meme.  However, if he must, I’d prefer that he flail the day before the Yanks’ ace trots out with a resulting 2-1 series lead.  When he flails the day before the Yanks trot Gaudin out with a resulting 3-1 series deficit, I will be much less philosophical about the affair.

Wow. Phillies won in an amazing fucking game.