Uh oh I’m starting to not like the trade as much anymore. Turns out the Yanks gave up Mccutcheon, ohlendorf, tabata, karstens and no coke/kontos. Losing d-mac and tabata definitely hurts. This also is a big hit to the upper level pitching depth, giving up 3 of the AAA starters.

oh, and also phil coke is a lefty

Um, WTF?

Turns out the Yanks gave up Mccutcheon, ohlendorf, tabata, karstens and no coke/kontos.
Hmm, is McCutcheon/Karstens > Coke/Kontos?  Maybe.  I like McCutcheon, but that’s still seems like fair value to me.

oh, and also phil coke is a lefty

Doh.  Thanks.

sources:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=NYY
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/07/mccutchen_karst.html
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/25/pirates.yanks.trade/index.html?eref=T1

This also is a big hit to the upper level pitching depth, giving up 3 of the AAA starters.

Ohlendorf isn’t a starter in the AL and Karstens is just terrible. McCutchen is pretty old. I way prefer this version of the trade to the other one, even if McCutchen is a slightly better prospect than the other two.

But Karstens pitched last night.  They allowed him to pitch (and go almost six innings)?  That seems strange.

However, any trade that sends Scary Flyball Guy far away from New York is automatically a plus in my book, second only to any trade that would ship Igawa off.

Hmm, is McCutcheon/Karstens > Coke/Kontos?

I don’t think so. Kontos has the most upside, Coke is about 4 months behind McCutchen in terms of development and Karstens is dead weight to an AL team. Giving up one fringe prospect is better than giving up two IMO, even if the one is the best of the three.

can someone please remind me why i dislike youkilis so much?  did he mouth off about arod last year?  i’ve found info about the joba vs. youk history, but i feel like there’s more.......my memory is failing.

its his beard

Dumping Karstens is nice but I really hope he gets flipped to the Dodgers where he belongs.

Karstens was on the 40-man, so if he’s in the trade they don’t need to DFA anybody to open up a roster spot.  This might mean that Giese gets optioned instead of Hawkins getting cut, which in turn might mean that the trade doesn’t help as much as we were thinking it would.

You know what, looking at a picture of Youkilis, I suddenly understand everything.  Joba is telling the truth, he never means to throw at Youk’s head.  It’s just that Youk’s head is so effin’ gigantic, it commands its own gravitational pull.  Joba can’t help it, the baseballs just get sucked in.

Giese is the long man, though, while Hawkins is just another short reliever.  That doesn’t mean the Yanks won’t opt to keep LaTroy, at least in the short term, but Giese at least has a defined and fairly important role - especially with two ticking time bombs in the rotation.

And for the record, I love the fact that Karstens is going to the Pirates.

As for Youkilis, if I could choose any of Boston’s everyday players and put him in pinstripes - that’s who I’d take.  If we are going to bag on Sox players, I’d much rather reserve my ire for Varitek, who is a replacement level blowhard at this point.

I’d take Manny.

I’d much rather reserve my ire for Varitek, who is a replacement level blowhard at this point.

He is a replacement level player at this point, and a perennial grade A+ blowhard.

I don’t dislike any player (even Papelbon is okay in my book) based on how they comport themselves, but that chickenshit fight at Fenway with A-Rod forced me to rethink that about Varitek.

I’d take Lester and the Laptop Thief.

Giese is the long man, though, while Hawkins is just another short reliever.  That doesn’t mean the Yanks won’t opt to keep LaTroy, at least in the short term, but Giese at least has a defined and fairly important role - especially with two ticking time bombs in the rotation.

Right.  That’s the scary part.  Who else would they send down?  Marte for Hawkins is a very nice upgrade.  Marte for anyone else currently in the bullpen, not nearly as much.

I’d take Pedroia just so he could rot on the bench behind Cano.

As for Youkilis, if I could choose any of Boston’s everyday players and put him in pinstripes - that’s who I’d take.

Strictly from a baseball value stand point, I’d probably take Petunia, but Youk is a close second.

If we are going to bag on Sox players, I’d much rather reserve my ire for Varitek, who is a replacement level blowhard at this point.

I like to spread out my dislike, Tek, Youk, Beckett, and Ortiz are all up there for me.

Who else would they send down?

Also, who goes down when Bruney comes back? Giese or Robertson?

I’ve never really understood the dislike for Ortiz.  He kills the Yankees, sure:  I respect that.

Eh, just when I was getting OK with the trade it changes. I really don’t like giving up McCutchen, mostly because I saw him as the most likely AAA guy besides Kennedy to be called up to replace Ponson/Rasner if needed. Aceves hasn’t really had any experience and Horne is still injured I believe. Obviously I have no issue with Karstens leaving. But, with Karstens, Ohlie and McCutchen gone who fills the AAA rotation? since that was 3/5s of the current rotation.

Bruney’s not coming back yet.  His velocity (and results) aren’t yet where the Yanks want him to be before they bring him back.  Anyway, they could say bye-bye to Big Sexy and just go with an extra reliever at that point.

Joba is telling the truth, he never means to throw at Youk’s head.  It’s just that Youk’s head is so effin’ gigantic, it commands its own gravitational pull.  Joba can’t help it, the baseballs just get sucked in.

This is exactly what I was just telling my friend on the phone.

Now that Duncan is back down in AAA, Youk stands well ahead of the pack in the Ugliest Player in MLB sweepstakes.  He is pretty damn good, though.  And you can’t blame the guy for being pissed.

And this trade...this is my kind of trade.  Any word on when Nady and Marte will be with the team?

Hey Clay, did you see the Murray Chass blog?

Also, are you suggesting that when making deals Cashman should take into consideration the holes in Scranton’s rotation?  No, you’re not.

Hey Clay, did you see the Murray Chass blog?

Dave S., you?

Clay, AAA rotation had 6 starters, so they really only need to fill in 2 of them.  Jason Jones could be one.  Maybe Chase Wright is the other guy to come up?  I’m not quite sure how he’s done this season.

I think they should’ve held onto one of McCutchen or Ohlie.  Since I have a completely irrational soft spot for Ross, I wish he’d been the one to stay.

What Murray Chass blog?  Did you guys finally start one??

Also, are you suggesting that when making deals Cashman should take into consideration the holes in Scranton’s rotation?  No, you’re not.

Clearly not, that should have been another paragraph, it was a related wondering.

Hey Clay, did you see the Murray Chass blog?

heard of it, but haven’t had the stones to go approach that vortex yet. You have pushed me Frog, thank you.

Obviously I have no issue with Karstens leaving. But, with Karstens, Ohlie and McCutchen gone who fills the AAA rotation?

Coke for one, maybe Kontos for another. I actually like it, in the sense that it’s the logjam of mediocre arms in the upper level of the minors. This will also make room Betances in AA.

What Murray Chass blog?  Did you guys finally start one??

No, we’re too lazy and stupid and inefficient--or at least I am.  But he did.  I won’t provide the link, because I really can’t condone giving his awful site additional hits.  But you can read Fire Joe Morgan’s take on it and laugh and laugh.

it helps clear the logjam is what I meant.

Oooohhh, that Murray Chass blog.  Yeah, that one I’ve heard of.

Coke for one

yeah that’s kind of what I figured.

but I don’t think Betances is ready for AA yet, nor are the Yankees ready to move him up. I’d guess that Heredia gets promoted before he does. Or Ryan Pope.

Jesus Christ, I just went and actually read Murray Chass’ “blog.” Where can I put in a claim to get those 3 minutes of my time and 5 brain cells back?

Betances is nowhere near ready for AA yet.  He’s in low A and still walking a small army every time out.  Coke could get the promotion, but I still think it’ll be Jason Jones first.

You have pushed me Frog, thank you.

Yet another reason I will burn is eternal hellfire.

Yet another reason I will burn is eternal hellfire.

yeah, that was pretty painful.

Betances is at Charleston.  If the Yanks decide to promote him, he will go to Tampa.

Betances is at Charleston.

there’s that too. nice catch IE.

Guys, I went and took a look at Chass’ site too.  Now I agree that Chass is in the Buzz Bissinger category (who rightfully should have died from choking on Tony LaRussa’s dick).  But the stuff on his blog--well, it’s not terrible.  I glanced at a couple and read the one about Murcer being moved to left.  They seem like interesting reflective pieces from a guy who’s been around the game a long time, and not something that really makes me dislike him.  In fact I thought they were sort of cool.

Now have at me.

No, Fgas, you’re good. 

It’s just the “this-is-not-a-blog-because-bloggers-aren’t-qualified-to-write-about-baseball” stuff that makes me sad.  Sad, because he’s sad, and because of all the sheep who will nod solemnly in agreement.

It’s just the “this-is-not-a-blog-because-bloggers-aren’t-qualified-to-write-about-baseball” stuff that makes me sad. 

Basically.

There’s always Phil Hughes, isn’t there?

It’s just the “this-is-not-a-blog-because-bloggers-aren’t-qualified-to-write-about-baseball” stuff that makes me sad.

That, plus I thought the pure quality of writing in the Murcer piece was pretty poor.  I didn’t have the fortitude to read anything else.

McCutcheon is 26, goodbye. Talk about overrating somebody.

I’ll give Chass this: he doesn’t pepper his prose with glaring grammatical and syntactical errors, which is more than can be said for most sportswriters.  For example, reading Pete Abe is a little bit soul-killing for me--aside from his petty vendettas.

I don’t think anyone is overrating McCutchen, he was simply a solid backup option and could potentially deliver us from Razzle Dazzle or Sir Snacks.

I glanced at a couple and read the one about Murcer being moved to left.

Murcer was moved to right, not left.  Was that your mistake, or Murray’s?  Because while he may not “pepper his prose with glaring grammatical and syntactical errors,” peppering one’s columns with factual errors is equally worthy of disdain.

I’m not really sure McCutchen would have been ready this year.  He had his ups and downs at AAA and probably was (and is) a better bet to be a league average or slightly worse starter by next season.  Of course, he could be worse than that also.  In any event, Ian Kennedy is a better option to replace Snacks or Rasner when the inevitable implosion comes to pass.

It’s a bit strange that the lineup is yet to be posted and the game is set to start in an hour.  Does that mean Nady and Marte are stuck in some Boston traffic?

Yikes, this from Chad Jennings:

Dan McCutchen is driving to Indianapoilis this afternoon—roughly 10 hours—so that he can start for Indy tomorrow at 2 p.m. Quite a way to welcome him to the organization.

"Murcer was moved to right, not left”

My mistake, MC, I suppose you will disdain ME now…

"Dan McCutchen is driving to Indianapoilis”

I take back anything optimistic I may have said about the current Pirates organization.  I know it’s the minors, but what would it have cost to find him a flight?  $500?

Lineups posted!

YANKEES (57-45)
Damon DH
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi 1B
Cano 2B
Nady LF
Cabrera CF
Molina C
Pettitte RHP

RED SOX (60-44)
Pedroia 2B
Youkilis 1B
Ortiz DH
Ramirez LF
Lowell 3B
Drew RF
Lowrie SS
Crisp CF
Cash C
Wakefield RHP

Also, Igawa cleared waivers and has been outrighted to AAA, LaTroy was DFAed, and Gardner is back at Scranton.

I have a slight erection about all of the above.

yankeemonkey @49—As I said…

Lineups posted.  Nady in left.

And this good news from Pete A:

“Brett Gardner was optioned to Scranton. LaTroy Hawkins was DFA’d. Also, Kei Igawa had cleared waivers and was taken off the 40-man. So they’re at 39 now. Plenty of room for Jarrod Washburn.”

I’m surprised nobody claimed Igawa.

ym, I will never try to scoop you again.

You need to get out more, Frog.

Oh no, Pete A is now saying the Yanks traded for Jarrod Washburn.

I’m guessing Frog is all deflated now.

Pete Abraham is reporting the Yanks are “close” to a deal for Washburn.  I wonder whether he can make it to Boston in time to start tomorrow instead of His Snackiness.

Tumescent, then de-tumescent.

One of the pitchers spot as been replaced with a MLer?
I’m confuzzled. Is that allowed?

According to mlbtraderumors.com (which is almost always wrong), the deal will involve either Brett Gardner or Justin Christian - although I don’t know why the Mariners would choose 28 year old Christian over 24 year old Gardner.

"why the Mariners would choose 28 year old Christian”

They’re the Mariners. 

Pete A now saying Cashman is sort-of denying a deal.

IE- Vidro is their DH.
I don’t think they understand this “baseball” thing very well.

Everyone breathe:

UPDATE, 3:12 p.m.: Hmm, maybe not. Says Brian Cashman, “I have no irons in the fire. I’m cold.”

Of course that could change in a second.

Washburn is a salary dump, why would Yankees trade any semi-decent prospect for him?

Can anyone tell me how to find leaderboards for team ERA, team batting, etc?  I tooled around b-ref a little but didn’t find what I wanted.

fgas, ESPN’s baseball stats are surprisingly awesome. Here is team batting:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=batting&group=7

Team pitching:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?statType=pitching&seasonType=2&group=7&typereg&split=0&season=2008

Yankees are 4th in team K’s.

fgas:

Like this?

Thanks guys.

You’re welcome.

My mistake, MC, I suppose you will disdain ME now…

No, I was really hoping it was Chass who screwed up.  Fortunately, my disappointment is tempered by the news of the Hawkins DFA.  Not that I have anything against him personally, and not that he was actually in much of a position to hurt the team the way he’s been used recently, but sending out any other reliever instead would have been just plain dumb.

Am I the only one was watching FOX?
Did anyone hear Mark Grace’s HOF list.

These guys are complete morons. Mark Grace just said the Yankees gave up “absolutely nothing” for Marte and Nady.

Re: Nady -

we should expect someting along the lines of .286/.347/.491 going foward. That’s almost Hideki Matsui, with a little less OBP and a touch more SLG maybe.

Um, I’ll take that, please.  Essentially, Nady is filling the spot of Matsui (and perhaps Abreu in the field at some point).  And the Yankees needed another solid righthanded bat with Molina playing everyday and Melky sucking wind.

Baseball and FOX don’t mix. Stupid start times too.

Even card-carrying masochists think watching FOX pregame shows is a bit much.

Losing the #3 position (possibly overall) prospect hurts, but I am much happier about this trade having thought about what having Nady and Marte as 2009 options means.  It reminds me a bit of the Abreu trade in that way. 

I am feeling Nomaas-like respect for Cashman at the moment.

Buck and McCarver- *shivers

Drew looked awful on that.

I cannot see or think of Bobby Meacham but remember that he and Dale Berra are forever linked. Tears to eyes.

I see the Yankees came out working counts and trying to get the starter to throw a lot of pitches.

Some of these Bosox guys really wear Pettitte out. Whew!

Dale Berra lived in nearby Montclair and was an notorious scumbag. Is he still alive?

Any relation to Yogi?

Ugh.

Not our day, it seems.

To flip that ever-overused cliche:

How often do you see a player have a terrible at bat and then make a bad fielding play in the very next inning?

Well this is starting poorly.

By terrible at bat do you mean hit a rocket? You can’t steer ‘em.

and here comes the blowout!

I really hope someone clobbers Pedroia one day.  Maybe when he’s back in the minors.

Let’s limit the damage here…

Dale is Yogi’s son.

Pettitte absolutely blows against the Red Sox. Any of these runs unearned?

I HATE the FOX games.  Some crap always seems to happen, and usually not in Yankees’ favor.

Pokey Reese fields that ball standing still with time to scratch his balls and flip the ball underhanded to first.

/Kevin

One of the runs was unearned.

USS Mariner reports Yankees get Washburn. Any chance he can replace The Frying Dutchman tomorrow?

Nevermind, old nonsense.

Sizzling.

Crap, Joe Buck and McCarver think the trade was a steal for the Yankees.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Unless the minor leaguer involved is SUPER famous, they’re always going to think a deal involving minor leaguers is a steal.

Wait, Nady didn’t GIDP in his first AB?  Not a True Yankee™.  Booooo!

How long before announcers start acknowledging that errors are not a very good way of rating defense and mention some form of range?  10 years?  15?

Wait, looks like they DID get Washburn.

Nady batted?  I’m having a hard time paying attention now that I have to worry about a stupid Washburn trade.  It’s probably just a salary dump, but Washburn isn’t worth picking up in a salary dump.

"I see the Yankees came out working counts and trying to get the starter to throw a lot of pitches.”

It’s pretty hard to wear out a knuckleballer.

Washburn is an improvement over Snacks/Rasner, I don’t think there’s any question about it.  It all depends on what Yankees gave up. If it’s Igawa going the other way, I’ll be doing back flips just as USS Mariner suggests.

oh my god, cash you little fucking piece of shit

Apparently Washburn faced Lester on Monday. Interesting....

so when pettite has to leave in the 4th inning b/c he’s at 120 pitches, they should just put snacks into the game and use all their relievers on sunday.

He’s better than Ponson, I’m not so sure about Rasner, but yeah, it won’t be the end of the world.  He’s signed for 2009, which is a nuisance, and I would rather give Kennedy another chance.

The salary issue is what gets me.  They have to take igawa back if we’re taking on all of washburn’s salary.

UPDATE, 4:31 p.m.: Brutal outing for Andy Pettitte so far. He is closing in on 50 pitches in the second inning and is down 2-0 thanks to an error by Alex Rodriguez.

Uh, okay.  Sure, the error wasn’t great, but Pettitte really wasn’t very sharp the whole inning.

Yeah, that’s what puzzles me.  For this season, with Kennedy and Hughes’ status uncertain, Washburn may be able to help.  Next season, however: CMW comes back, IPK and Hughes are presumably still in the mix, and Sabathia is lurking on the market.  Do you not resign Moose or Pettitte and pass on CC, then?  Looks lik ea pretty crowded rotation to me.

Ahh, good ol’ Pete Abe.  Granted, Pettitte hasn’t looked sharp at all so far, but I wouldn’t quite call it brutal.

I’m hoping that the Yankees will try to trade Washburn for anything they can get, and eat the salary if they can’t.  Presumably he can’t be optioned to Scranton to provide depth.

YM- You make it sound like Wasburn will survive this season.

Bobby will make a fairly decent DH this season.

Things looking up.

How was that a strike?

I’m sure people claimed that there were too many pitchers this season as well (Joba, Hughes, IPK, Wang, Moose, Pettitte, etc.). Then Hughes/IPK sucked and Wang had a freak injury.

Considering how close Pettitte was to retiring, and not having any indication how much Moose wants to play, I’m not worried about it. Like Tree said, just trade him if you have to.

Did that go as far as Gameday made it seem?

YM, you don’t have cable?

Yes. Gone anywhere else.

Yeah, but all Giambi’s power, none form the knuckleball.

I’m at work, so no TV for me.

Sit down fatty.

woo hoo, i’m not the only sucker working on a saturday.

WOE must go!

WOE must go!

WOE must go!

And so must I.

BOE

Cano is so fucking good now.

That was hit hard.

That was just a monster shot.

Seriously, is this all the dad or some kind of crazy Dominican brujeria?

Hey!  Melky didn’t dive headfirst!!!

Hate to says this but McCarver was right--Melky shouldn’t have looked back.  He’s a really poor baserunner.

Melky’s dad not a good coach.

142: ditto.

A bunt single involves a lot of things going right.  Looking back is stupid.

Quick, trade Cano for Lowe and Kemp!

How come Pedroia’s “decoy” is good baseball and A-Rod’s “Ha!” was bush?

Quick, trade Cano for Lowe and Kemp! Brandon Arroyo!

Fixed.

"Brandon Arroyo!”

Don’t know him, is he better that Bronson?

Sweetness.

“Brandon Arroyo!”

Don’t know him, is he better that Bronson?

Not sure, but I think he and ARod have some history.

--How come Pedroia’s “decoy” is good baseball and A-Rod’s “Ha!” was bush? --

I don’t agree w/ this, but by screaming ha, you are messing with the player physically (w/ audio).  a decoy (and i didn’t see this play, so i’m only guessing what type of decoy it was) is a mental trick.  The baserunner shouldn’t trust a defensive player, and if he does, that’s his own mental lapse.  like the hidden ball trick.

or, the easier answer is:  b/c it was arod!

kronic- that doesn’t make any sense. A decoy messes with a player (w/visual)

Blake to the dodgers for minor leaguers.  apparently tampa was interested.

or, the easier answer is:  b/c it was arod!

I’ll take easier answer for $100, Alex.

but you can choose to ignore a visual (unless it’s a hand in your face).  If I scream in your ear, you are going to flinch, no matter what.  It’s more instinct.  A decoy involves processing information, so you can train yourself to ignore it.

ok, so what’s the best case scenerio here?  Pettitte goes 5+ innings and then who?  is Mo available today?

Pettitte could go 6 at this point if he gets a little lucky.

I’m sure Mo can pitch an inning.

But who pitches teh 8th??!11!!1?

Giese.  WOE is going to score 7 runs.

That can’t be a real moustache.

Missed early innings.  LOHUD says Meacham should have sent Abreu on Arod’s double.  True?

bebop- “good way to lose your job” true.

FEAR the Cano.

Cano’s father > Wakefield’s father

time for nady to become a true yankee

Wake does.

Irv if its my job your talking about if they haven’t fired me by now they’re not going to fire me; ditto for Meacham.

Is is “ta-ba-ta” or “ta-bat-a”?  The first way sounds ridiculous.

Cano’s slg. has gone up 43 points since the break.

Meacham’s job.
And that umpire needs to lose his job too.

Crap.

Kay was saying TaBATa yesterday.  No idea if that’s right or not.

Um, safe?

what happened?

Yes, please describe for the teevee-less.

Have the umps always been this bad?

So, I’m pretty Cano is just a bad base stealer.  He’s 1-5 this year and 4-9 last year.

Never heard the actual name, but I think it should be taBAta

I think its hilarious that Pedroia actually was out on his decoy slide but was called safe.  As I rewind it here it looks like Cano was safe yet called out.  WTF is wrong with these umps?
The throw was high and he had to come down and reach behind him for the tag!  Safe safe safe!

Ken Rosenthal was just on talking about the trade and he said “Ta ba ta” and emphasized each syllable.  It was pretty weird.

Fox is too embarassed to reshow the play.

Yet another “base hit” courtesy of the overshift?

apple needs to design some kind of touch screen gamecast so the person putting in this data can have more flexibility.  i want to see the if the fielders are shifting.  i want instant information as to where the ball was hit.  etc etc.

Pettitte at 94 pitches.  He could probably start the 6th and see how he does against Lowell, Drew, and Lowrie.