i think it’s simple,  the Orioles have decent starting pitching that is heavily lefthanded.

they are 3-6 against Baltimore.  they’ve lost 4 games to lefties and 2 to Guthrie, who is a very good pitcher.  their 3 wins have come in games started by righties.

the Orioles actually have some pitchers and a few players to build around.  if they had any clue what they were doing as an organization, they could become a real headache for the yankees.

In regard to the Red Sox, I totally agree with you.  Wanting to beat Boston is the same reason losing the 2003 World Series didn’t hurt that much, and the reason that playing in it was a bit of a let down (the dramatic Game 7 didn’t help either).  Some one said it best a while ago (sadly I think it might have been Joe Buck) when they said something like, “With New York and Boston, the championship of the world is almost not as important as the championship of each other.”

Throw in that aspect, plus the fact that mentally, I know that a 162 game season is a better indicator of which team is better than the post-season, plus the 10 straight division titles streak(yes, 2005 counts), and there is a lot of pride invested in winning the East.  Even with a World Series win, this season will have a tinge of disappointment, if the Yankees don’t win the East.  But I feel like I stand isolated on this point.

the Yankees are not winning the East.  they have an 8 game deficit and Boston’s rotation is such that they are not going to go into any sort of prolonged tailspin.  i just don’t see it happening.

but i do think they will win the WC.

and Wang, Clemens, Pettitte, and hopefully Hughes can match up pretty well in a short series.

I know I may be crazy for feeling this way, but my brother and I had a discussion about which option we would prefer: Yanks win WC and World Series, Yanks win AL East and ALCS, lose World Series. We both voted for the latter option. I still care a lot about winning the division, what with the streak and the fact that we’d be taking it from the Red Sox. Furthermore, I’ve never adopted the mindset that winning the World Series is the only thing that matters. The Wild Card just feels so dirty to me, I’d almost be ashamed to make it that way. I know, I’m crazy.

Yanks win WC and World Series, Yanks win AL East and ALCS, lose World Series. We both voted for the latter option.

no offense, but this is crazy.

winning the WS implies either the yankees have beaten boston in the ALCS or boston lost embarrassingly in the first round.  i don’t see how that, combined with the euphoria of winning the WS, could be even remotely close to winning the division.

when you start rooting against boston instead of rooting for the yankees, you have taken the mentality of this “RSN” bullsh*t that has sprung up in the last 5-10 years (i don’t want to lump real Sox fans in with this crowd).  what’s next, “Boston Hater” hats?  chanting “Red Sox” suck when the yankees take the lead in a game against the Devil Rays?  chanting “Red Sox” suck when the Giants win the Super Bowl?  come on.

Red Sox sucks.

Impressions from the Baltimore series. We can’t hit lefty’s and Bobby Abreu is not the answer in the three hole when facing the same. Lots of jeers from this crowd regarding Damon of late, but Abreu continues to not hit in some very critical situations. Combine that with very poor play in right field and it begs a mid-season trade. It appears Dye is very available, so much so that the Red Sox are after him. I realize that Abreu isn’t what Chicago needs. They wouldn’t be gaining anything, but Dye is I believe what NY needs to balance the lineup. I don’t hear anything in the press, so it likely won’t happen, but I wonder just why we keep entrusting the three hole to Bobby. I think Matsui should bat third against righties and Posada 5th. Matsui did a great job yesterday of just putting the ball in the air to score runners from third. Abreu of late simply strikes out against most lefty pitching or can’t get it past the pitcher.

Until we find some better combination, I’d just use Matsui in the three spot and Posada 5th against all pitching.

Umm…

You’ll note that the the options were:
1. Win Wild Card and World Series.
2. Win Division and ALCS. Lose World Series.

In both situations Boston loses in the first round or to the Yankees in the ALCS (or misses the playoffs entirely). In the latter scenario, Boston also chokes away a 14.5 game lead. The latter scenario is more embarrassing for Boston than the former. Regardless, I would certainly not want the Yankees to flame out in the first round again, regardless of how they made the playoffs.

Furthermore, this is not a case of rooting against Boston instead of for New York, though I plead guilty on all accounts of schadenfreude at their expense. My preference has its basis in that I personally still value division titles and league pennants. I’ve never bought into the NFL/NBA/NHL mentality that the only thing that matters is being the last man standing. I value what happens in the regular season. The long, significant regular season is my favorite aspect of baseball. In baseball, winning your division means that you were the better team over 162 games.

Look, I know my opinion isn’t widely held. I acknowledge as much in my previous post. Still, I dislike the Wild Card, and winning the World Series that route is just distasteful to me. I’ll be rooting for the Yanks no matter how they make the playoffs. I’d just rather (a lot) it was through the division championship route.

In both situations Boston loses in the first round or to the Yankees in the ALCS (or misses the playoffs entirely). In the latter scenario, Boston also chokes away a 14.5 game lead. The latter scenario is more embarrassing for Boston than the former. Regardless, I would certainly not want the Yankees to flame out in the first round again, regardless of how they made the playoffs.

i understand the options, but i still think it’s crazy.

essentially you are choosing an “embarrassing” Boston collapse over winning a WS, and i just can’t agree with that. 

i respect your opinion about the regular season, that is the most logical part of your argument, but i’m afraid history just doesn’t remember HOW you made the playoffs. 

i don’t remember caring in 1995 or 1997 that the yankees got into the playoffs via the WC.  being in the playoffs was still not something i took for granted and i was thrilled just to be in the postseason.  had the yankees won the WS in 1997 it would have been just as thrilling as 1996 for me.

essentially you are choosing an “embarrassing” Boston collapse over winning a WS, and i just can’t agree with that.

I think rather that I would choose a 10th consecutive division title and 40th AL pennant over a Wild Card berth and 27th World Championship. The consecutive titles streak weighs heavily into my thinking. The necessary Boston collapse is more the icing on the cake than the cake itself.

Again, it doesn’t matter to me how the Yanks make the playoffs after the fact. If they win the division, I’ll root for them to win the World Series. If they settle for the Wild Card, I’ll root for them to win the World Series. It just seems that we differ in the how we value a World Series victory relative to a AL pennant, division championship, and Wild Card berth. I’m not saying either of us is right or wrong here; to each his own, after all. I’m only defending myself against the notion that I value Boston failure more than New York success. I do not believe this is the case.

Just make the playoffs, any way you can.  Win the World Series, no matter how you got there.  That’s all I want.

Oh, and for Farnsworth to be traded.

Oh, and for Farnsworth to be traded.

Living in Tiger country as I do, it was really pretty funny when the Tigers, hopelessly out of contention at the time, traded Farnsworth to Atlanta a few years ago. You had all the usual suspects on the radio decrying the move as evidence that the team didn’t want to win and that it was super important to get back to .500 and how could the team trade such a dominant reliever, etc. It was ridiculous given Farnsworth’s history and the state of the club at the time. The Tigers sold high. It was a great move.

It would be absolutely hilarious to me if Farnsworth returned to Detroit only to subvert their playoff hopes in a year when his performance actually mattered. Wonder what the talking heads would say then?

Plus, I can’t believe anyone would actually want to give the Yankees something for him. That would be awesome.

Still, I dislike the Wild Card, and winning the World Series that route is just distasteful to me.

Whether or not it’s distasteful, it’s definitley harder to win the WS as the number of rounds to get there increases. I personnally think that makes the Yankees run from 1996-200x (where x = 7, hopefully) potentially more impressive than some of the other post season streaks they’ve put together.

MLBTR:

Braves Acquire Mark Teixeira

I’ll have some analysis of the deal once we have all the details.  Kind of makes tomorrow anticlimactic, doesn’t it?

it’s definitley harder to win the WS as the number of rounds to get there increases

It depends how you look at it. It’s harder to win it all, given that you’ve made the playoffs. However, making the playoffs isn’t a given, so overall I think it’s easier with three divisions and a wild card than with two divisions.

For example, the Yanks don’t even make the playoffs in 1995, 1996, 1997 or 2000 under the old two division format. We’d be remembered a lot more like the early 90’s Blue Jays than the Yankees dynasties of old without the three division format.

That being said, yes, the Yankees run of success in the postseason is pretty amazing. Thanks, Mo!

Don’t give a shit, just be playing in October…..To win the Division would be a major coup considering all the injuries in April & May…..The lost road trip in June to Colorado & San Francisco then Baltimore just about dashed any hope for the Division…...Can’t bare the thought of no Yankee baseball in October…..I shudder at the thought…...Farnsworth coming to the Dodgers, that’s what’s being said out her in LA LA Land…..

Responding way back to joeln’s posts of 7 & 8, I’d agree that Abreau should not be batting 3rd right now.  Depending on how the rest of the lineup shakes out, either DJ or Matsui 3rd, and Abrea somewhere in 7-9.  I really don’t see Abreau this year being able to recapture the trust necessary for the 3rd spot.

Not sure about trading him though.  I’m not positive Dye is the solution - and pretty sure at this point the ChiSox wouldn’t take Abreau unless some young talent was thrown in - and until we know what Giambi can bring, trading Abreau is dangerous.  And really, even if the Yankees want to trade him, it will probably be more difficult to get him to waive his WTC than it was for the Phillies to trade him to the Yankees.

how could a self respecting yankee fan say that they would rather see the yanks win the division and not win it all?

Are you people insane? The yankees are about one thing, winning world series’

Sure it would be great for boston to collapse and hand over the division title to us. It is infinitely greater for us to creep in with the wild card and take the whole damn playoffs for number 27. Division champs do not get parades.
I think i would go as far to say that if we are not going to win the world series i would rather they not even make the playoffs. Theres no glory in getting to october and blowing it.

Was the taste of startling defeat any less bitter in 2004 because we won the division? I would say the opposite.

The thing is we probably match up, pitching wise, better than we have since probably, 03?

how could a self respecting yankee fan say that they would rather see the yanks win the division and not win it all?

Division and ALCS. I would not rather that the Yanks win the division and then flame out in the first or second round. I would always choose the WC/WS option over that.

Are you people insane? The yankees are about one thing, winning world series’

It’s not people, really. It’s just me, and I disagree that the Yankees should only be about winning the World Series.

Sure it would be great for boston to collapse and hand over the division title to us. It is infinitely greater for us to creep in with the wild card and take the whole damn playoffs for number 27.

So it would be greater to field a mediocre team, get hot for a couple weeks, and sneak away with a championship than to field the best team in your division, earn a division title in the regular season, and cap it off with championship? If that’s what you’re saying, I can’t agree with it. If you’re saying you’d rather win the WS via the WC than not win the WS and win the division, I can understand that viewpoint.

I think i would go as far to say that if we are not going to win the world series i would rather they not even make the playoffs. Theres no glory in getting to october and blowing it.

This is more nuts than anything I’ve said. Folks, this is baseball, not football. The regular season matters (or at least it ought to). Don’t let the idiotic playoff-driven mentality of the NFL, NBA, and NHL distract you from one of the primary beauties of baseball: the regular season.

Was the taste of startling defeat any less bitter in 2004 because we won the division? I would say the opposite.

Of course it hurt more. I don’t root for the Yanks to minimize the grief I feel when they lose. If the Yanks raise my expectations to the point that I am more hurt when they lose, I’m perfectly fine with that, as long as those expectations were well-founded and come to fruition as often as possible. I’m not going to root for the Yanks to lower my expectations for them so that I don’t feel as hurt when they lose.

We were lucky to dodge Bedard but its going to be tough beating Cleveland head to head if we have to face Carmona and Sabathia

For example, the Yanks don’t even make the playoffs in 1995, 1996, 1997 or 2000 under the old two division format. We’d be remembered a lot more like the early 90’s Blue Jays than the Yankees dynasties of old without the three division format.

yes, but they probably WOULD have made the playoffs a few years in the 80’s with the new system.

the WC giveth, and the WC taketh away.

yes, but they probably WOULD have made the playoffs a few years in the 80’s with the new system.

Right, that’s my point. Overall, it’s actually easier to win it all with three rounds of playoffs because you have a better chance of making to the postseason in the first place. Once you get there, it is harder than before, but it’s not a given that you’ll get there. Doubling the number of teams that make it offsets the increased difficulty of the extra round.

I think it’s apples to oranges to compare the different ways of getting in the playoffs, because more has changed than just the number of teams that get in.  After all, you now have the un-balanced schedule, interleague-play, etc.  It’s hard to just say that Cleveland won 7 more games than the Yankees in 96, w/o also comparing their schedules, etc.

When all is said and done, everyone wants the Yanks to win the series this year, and I think everyone would rather win the division, but will take the playoffs anyway they can get them.  Agreed?

When all is said and done, everyone wants the Yanks to win the series this year, and I think everyone would rather win the division, but will take the playoffs anyway they can get them.  Agreed?

Absolutely.

I do respect the beauty of the regular season and I do feel that it is a MUCH better indicator of the best team (who really believes the cards were the best team in baseball last year?) However, without the rings it just really does not matter. I am speaking of this as a yankees fan living at school in new orleans. I deal fans of all teams on a daily basis (esp red sox) and must say that at this point in the yankees history, only a championship suffices for bragging rights.

only a championship suffices for bragging rights

Sure, a World Championship is far more important for bragging rights than anything else. I’m not really talking about bragging rights though. I’m just talking about what I personally would value the most. That value for me is based on a whole bunch of idiosyncratic beliefs about baseball, including that division titles and league pennants are valuable.

Again, I’m totally cool with people preferring the WC/WS option over my own preference. I just don’t think that this implies either that I would rather see the Sox lose than the Yanks win or that this makes me less of a fan. We all want to see the Yanks get maximum value out of this season. It’s just that we each value events differently such that maximum value for me is not maximum value for you. And since we’re talking about something as ephemeral as the relative worth of different accomplishments in MLB, who’s to say who’s right and who isn’t?

It’s just that we each value events differently such that maximum value for me is not maximum value for you.

Allow me to amend this statement. I’m pretty sure that for each of us the maximum value is the same: win division, win ALCS, win WS.

What I mean is the for any set of events that is less than best result, we may value each set differently because we place different values on the individual components of that set.

I trust I have obfuscated the matter further.

Amusing discussion. Before 2004 I suspect a lot of people in Boston would have chosen knocking out the Yankees over winning the WS, but now that seems insane to me. With the division titles streak, 2003, 1978, and so many other indignities heaped on us, I can’t imagine why heaping another indignity on us—and then losing and being completely irrelevant to history—is somehow more satisfying than winning the WS via the WC.

If you want to irritate Red Sox Nation, win the World Series. There is nothing we’d like less. 2003 was a lot less awful than 2000 for us, thanks to Beckett & co. Hands down.

I’m not criticizing people for this small-mindedness; it’s part of the rivalry to want to land your blows directly, even at the cost of other goals. I’m just saying that all of this pales in comparison to a world title.

As for losing to Baltimore, Yup’s initial answer is the only logical explanation. We did poorly against the Royals and Rockies, and a few other teams the Yankees killed. Even on the bad teams, their pitching is more up and down rather than uniformly awful. I suppose Daniel Cabrera is the perfect example: usually blows, except when he doesn’t.

Ummm, Phil Franchise is a terrible nickname. Kind of reminds me of Steve Franchise, and I pity Steve Franchise. Maybe we should come up with a new nickname for Hughes.

Amusing discussion. Before 2004 I suspect a lot of people in Boston would have chosen knocking out the Yankees over winning the WS, but now that seems insane to me.

Wow. That amazes me. I would think that if you hadn’t won in eighty-some years, you’d rather do that. I guess it’s a moot point, since 2004 was pretty much the perfect way for it all to happen (for a Sox fan). To each his own.

With the division titles streak, 2003, 1978, and so many other indignities heaped on us, I can’t imagine why heaping another indignity on us—and then losing and being completely irrelevant to history—is somehow more satisfying than winning the WS via the WC.

First, the Sox misery aspect is only the smallest part of the discussion to me. Second, you wouldn’t just be “losing.” You’d win the division, win the AL pennant, and then lose. Yes, I know that a lot of people won’t care at that point, but not me. I like division titles and AL pennants for their own sake.

If you want to irritate Red Sox Nation, win the World Series. There is nothing we’d like less. 2003 was a lot less awful than 2000 for us, thanks to Beckett & co. Hands down.

This is funny, because 2003 was also not that disappointing to me, precisely because we were division champs, had won the ALCS and had done so in dramatic fashion against the Red Sox. Also, Red Sox Nation really would rather have a 1978/2003 scenario than have the Yankees win the World Series? That seems to be rooting for New York to lose rather than for Boston to win, which is precisely the point of view that I’m arguing against.

For me, 2004 didn’t suck because the Sox won the World Series. It sucked because we were humiliated in unprecedented fashion at the hands of our biggest rivals on the biggest possible stage. It was the Yankees’ losing that sucked. After that, I didn’t care that much if the Sox won the World Series or not.

Sam,
How about KING PHILIP?

I’ve read he hates the name Philip.  Which is totally understandable.

Alrighty then,

how about King Phil?

If you want to irritate Red Sox Nation, win the World Series. There is nothing we’d like less. 2003 was a lot less awful than 2000 for us, thanks to Beckett & co. Hands down
I appreciate this kind of honesty from a fair-minded follower of our rival. Can’t imagine how 2000 felt from the wrong side, because it was compounded by the 98 and 99 seasons as well. From my point of view, it was the capping moment to a great, great run.

John Lynch - I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said (see post 2).  So that makes two of us. 

Look at European Football - there is not one “be all, end all” championship at any level.  You just try to win whatever trophies you want to.  Their value is whatever value you want to give them. 

Look at College Football - The current discussion about the plus-one playoff and the Pac-10 and Big Ten saying they’ll pull out of the BCS if that happens.  People in those conferences (myself included) care less about the mythical national championship than in other conferences - personally, I don’t see why there needs to be a “national champion.”  Just let us play the Rose Bowl.  But, I digress, I’m just trying to show that there is in fact more to baseball than winning the World Series.

I disagree that bragging rights start with World Series trophies - The extreme on one end would be the 2003 Marlins or the 2006 Cardinals (although the Cardinals had a good run before 2006).  On the other end, the 2001 Mariners.  Do the 2003 Marlins have bragging rights over the 2001 Mariners.  If I were to say the ‘03 Marlins were a better team than the ‘01 Mariners would anyone here take me seriously?  I wouldn’t.

King Phil is cool, although M’s fans can mock us for using that. I mean, there already is a King Felix.

He could be Emperor Phil, although that is a bit long.

I once proposed Max Power as Hughes’ nickname, evidently that didn’t see the light of the day.

He’s the man who’s name you’d love to touch! But you mustn’t touch! His name sounds good in your ear, but when you say it, you mustn’t fear! ‘Cause his name can be said by anyone!

i didnt say bragging rights start with world championships. in fact i believe thats where they end. A semi-trump card that is pretty untouchable. Sure the 2001 mariners were great but the flopped when it counted on the big stage in october. The 03 marlins were not necessarily the better team but they were when it counted the most. The season must culminate somewhere and that is in october, when the true champions show themselves.

Lynch - you should run for office. I’d vote for you.

i’m a little late to this, but Yup’s #5 is right on point.  In the end, i think that’s what seperates us from redsox fans.  Caring about another team as strongly as they do (or mets’ fans for that matter) stems from a disturbing inferiority complex that makes it tough to respect their fans.

** SOME of their fans.  the ones who chant yankees suck even when they aren’t playing the yankees.

It really pisses me off that Dotel is such a hot trade commodity this year and we basically paid him to rehab last year. He could either either be helping our bullpen or deepening our farm system. That one has to go against Cashman I think.

“Look at College Football - The current discussion about the plus-one playoff and the Pac-10 and Big Ten saying they’ll pull out of the BCS if that happens.  People in those conferences (myself included) care less about the mythical national championship than in other conferences - personally, I don’t see why there needs to be a “national champion.””

I’m a Big East fan, if the change the format to include the playoffs I will stop watching College Football, and I will be pissed because that’s the only other sport I watch other then baseball.

I disagree that bragging rights start with World Series trophies

I guess when I hear the term “bragging rights” I assume that one is talking about an item that actually allows one to brag publicly. Since most people look to World Championships as the be all and end all of sports leagues, winning one provides you with a quick, easy, and widely accepted retort to any heckling one might receive.

I think if you tried bragging about the 2001 Mariners on the radio or around the proverbial water cooler, you’d get laughed at. I know I’d laugh at you: my team beat your team in the postseason. “Bragging rights” to me implies a sort of oneupmanship among friends, coworkers, etc, as opposed to an actually thorough analysis of team quality, in which case the 2001 Mariners are gonna come out ahead of the 2003 Marlins and just about everyone else. Maybe “bragging rights” should start with a more in-depth analysis of team quality, but the reality is that it doesn’t, so I’ll cede that point.

In other words, if all I was interested in was needling my friends in Boston (not that I have any) about the Yanks and Red Sox, I’d rather win a World Series than a division or an AL pennant. Of course, that’s not all I’m interested in, so I have a different preference.

It really pisses me off that Dotel is such a hot trade commodity this year and we basically paid him to rehab last year. He could either either be helping our bullpen or deepening our farm system. That one has to go against Cashman I think.

Dotel wanted a 1 year deal.  he refused a 2 year deal.  he had numerous 1 year offers from many teams, so the yankees could not force him to take a 2 year deal.  it was 1 year or nothing.  he then pitched terribly for the yankees and got $5M + $2.25M in incentives from the Royals.

are you arguing the yankees should have signed him for 2 years?  they couldn’t.  are you arguing they should have matched the Royals’ offer?  i don’t think they should have done that either.

also, Dotel really hasn’t been THAT good this year.  he just looks so valuable b/c the market for relievers is over-inflated.  he’s pitched 23 innings with a 3.91 ERA.  BFD. 

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060629&content_id=1529533&vkey=news_nyy&fext;=.jsp&c_id=nyy

General manager Brian Cashman actually tried to sign Dotel to a multi-year deal, much the same as he did with Jon Lieber after he underwent the same elbow surgery.

“Right now, he’s an investment for now,” Cashman said. “He was only looking for a one-year deal and that’s what he got. Hopefully it will benefit us both, and when all is said and done, we’ll talk about [a new contract] at a later date.”

I’m hearing out here in LA, is that the Dodgers really want Proctor and have no desire for Farnsworth…..Maybe Colorado is interested in him…...He needs to go though….

to John Lynch: my point is, it sucks to lose head to head, but when the Yanks turned around and lost the 2003 WS, it ended the suffering pretty quickly. I suppose I can only speak for myself, but the worst times were the years when we’d hear endlessly about the “world champion yankees”. Maybe I’m not as obsessed with the Yanks as some of my former neighbors back in Boston. And I will even admit that in 2004, the Yanks thing was a bigger satisfaction than the WS win. I guess I just think that those were completely unique circumstances since we were on the losing end from the Yankees for so long, and since it was 0-3. Are you really saying you equate your interests with that of pre-2004 Sox fans? To each his own, but if my team had all that hardware, I’d never get as caught up in the one-upmanship.

to Kronichfatigue:

Don’t paint with too broad a brushstroke. I agree that there are a lot of Sox fans who embarass themselves, but a) I doubt the vast majority act that way and b) I doubt we’ve cornered the market on miserable, pathetic fans. You threw in the “some fans” saver, but your previous post sounds awfully black-and-white to me. Do you vouch for the upstanding behavior and sound priorities of Yankee fans everywhere?

p.s.

I should add that my other team, which I grew up within biking distance of, is the Patriots. We had the same kind of thing with the Dolphins for a while, but now that we’ve risen to the top, even a couple years removed from the last SB win, there is no team I’d take beating over another SB. Sox-Yanks is unique in many respects, and again, to each his own. But IMHO, when your team is a winner, all that matters is another championship.

To throw my two-cents in…if in any given season - not this one because it won’t happen - the Yankees were to miss the post-season <b>but</i> cost the Sox the playoffs, I would take some small satisfaction in that.  Especially if the Yanks were out of it going into September.  Other than that, the head-to-head means less to me than winning a championship, or at least making it to the PS.

Sounds more and more like Dye is going to Boston. If he does, I think it will be a big upgrade for the second half. He’s beginning to find his stroke.
Even heard a rumor (likely BS )that NY is trying to get Arizona’s Byrnes for Farney and Abreu. I think I might pull that trigger if it were true. We need someone who can rake lefty pitching. Does Byrnes qualify?

What I don’t get is, why did the Yankees keep referring to him as Philip Hughes for so long when the dude wanted to be called Phil?

He was Phil in Pony League & at Foothill HS…..I’m certain in a year from now and on his Rookie Topps card he’ll be Phil Hughes…...Get those rookie cards guys….

Joeln:

What are you hearing? It was on this am, then off around noon. Dye would be a fine addition, but not at the cost of anything more than Wily Mo. Somehow I doubt we’ll get him cheaply enough to justify it.

Are you really saying you equate your interests with that of pre-2004 Sox fans? To each his own, but if my team had all that hardware, I’d never get as caught up in the one-upmanship.

My point is that I’m not caught up in the oneupmanship to the extent that I would prefer beating the Sox to winning a title. If you were to say to me: “John, you will have the option of eliminating the Red Sox from contention OR winning the World Series,” I’m gonna take the World Series every time, even if it means that someone else eliminates the Sox.

I want the division title and the AL pennant for their own merit, which to me is considerable, but to others is not. That it would come at the expense of the Red Sox is, to repeat, icing on the cake, but not the cake itself.

The two scenarios that I presented both have the Yankees achieving greater success than the Sox, no matter which way you slice it. The real mitigating factor here is that I want the Yankees’ consecutive division title streak to continue. However, I wouldn’t want to win the division and then lose before the WS, especially to Boston, thus I would only take the division title route over the Wild Card route if I could also get an AL pennant out of it.

My point through all this is that I am primarily concerned with the Yankees’ success and not the Red Sox’ failure, it’s just that I value the division title streak and AL pennant more than, apparently, almost everyone else. And that’s OK.

SSF,

They monitor our internet usage at work, so i try to skim this page quickly and then sign off.  but, after i submitted my first post, i felt so bad about painting with such a broad stroke that i had to sign back into add the 2nd post. 

Generally, 3 teams stand out in my mind when it comes to an inferiority complex with SOME of their fans.  Devil fans will chant against the Rangers even when they aren’t playing each other.  Mets fans here in the NYC/NJ area think there is a huge rivalry between the Mets and the Yankees even though there isn’t (except for the very very casual baseball fan and that’s only b/c the MSM forces it down our throats).  And then there are the redsox fans who focus about 49.9% of their attention on what the Yankees are doing.

and as for my opinion of yankee fans…..I’ve been in a moral crisis over the past year or so based on their bashing of Arod.  And at a yankees/redsox game i went to earlier this year, i was absolutely disgusted by how the yankee fans acted once it became a blowout.  They started pulling boston caps off of people and throwing them away (one was even lit on fire!) and even threw beers at a couple of girls in boston jerseys.  It was a real eye opener.

Eric Gagne to Bronx for Clippard, Marquez, and most likely Brett Gardner. From Eric Shultz of MVN.

“Eric Gagne to the Yankees for Tyler Clippard, Jeff Karstens, and a C-level prospect
Eric Gagne to the Yankees for Tyler Clippard, Jeff Marquez, and a C-level prospect
Either way, Eric Gagne is on his way to New York to set up for The Sandman. I will update this post when the exact information is announced.”

FROM JIM JOHNSON OF MVN: specifically http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/2007/07/30/gagne-deal-near-complete/

Eric Gagne to Bronx for Clippard, Marquez, and most likely Brett Gardner. From Eric Shultz of MVN.

That sounds skimpy for possibly the best reliever on the market… wishfuk thinking?

isnt Marquez real good with the sinker though?

Eric Gagne to Bronx for Clippard, Marquez, and most likely Brett Gardner.

Really?  I haven’t heard a thing from any of the other sources.

I got this from MVN

Gagne is a free agent after this year.  That trade would be horrible if he plans on moving on.  Losing Marquez and Clippard for a two month rental is not worth it.
From most of the people I usually trust, the Rangers want Melky in return anyway.  I can’t see it happening.

According to a hopefully reliable MVN source, the Yankees will be acquiring Texas setup man Eric Gagn� in exchange for AA pitchers Jeff Marquez, Tyler Clippard, and a 3rd �C-Level� prospect (maybe Brett Gardner?). I�ll update you when I find official confirmation, but as for now, one has to be happy that Ian Kennedy and Alan Horne are still Yankees.

Update 10:25 PM: As I commented below, neither Alan Horne or Jeff Marquez are listed as members of the Trenton Thunder if you search them on milb.com (they have no team name next to their name on the search page, before you clidk on the name), while Clippard, Karstens, etc are still listed on their correct teams. I�m hoping it�s either a mistake or a promotion, but if they are both traded for Gagn�, they�d better get something else back.

This is all from MVN

how do u italize again?

Eric Gagne has pitched 49 innings in the last 3 years. I’m not going to evaluate that potential deal, but just thought I would put that out there.

Alan Horne and Jeff Marquez have had no team name next to them on the search page for a while now.

I don’t think Gagne will be Yankees next year,
he won’t be the closer in NYY.
In fact, I don’t like this trade.

Joba, 1 inning of relief, 3 K’s.

Tabata did not play in tonights game. Trade or promotion?

Austin Jackson 2-4 with a double and a BB.

Pitching upper 90s and touching 100 apparently.

Tabata not playing is very scary

To Kronicfatigue #58

Thanks for your note, I appreciate it. Personally I have kind of a love-hate relationship with my Sox brethren, the meathead factor at Fenway can get alarmingly high.

And at a yankees/redsox game i went to earlier this year, i was absolutely disgusted by how the yankee fans acted once it became a blowout.

I think I was at that game.  Friday night late May, right?  Yeah, it was ugly.  I was in the upper-deck in left field, and there must have been about 30 fights.  People getting dumb too, throwing beer on the cops.  That’s a good way for them to limit beer sales to stop after the 5th inning.