Tuesday, October 6, 2009
Twins or Tigers (Twins Edition)?
Well, we finally know who the Yankees will be seeing in the ALDS this year after one of the best baseball games you'll ever see. The Twins beat the Tigers 6-5 in 12 innings in a game that saw both teams fail to capitalize on numerous scoring chances in extra innings. Anyway, following the format from this post about the Tigers that turned out to be unnecessary, here's a similar look at the Twins as presently constituted.The same idea here, it's lazy to just use 2009 numbers and pretend that you're doing trenchant analysis of a team. For example, yes, Joe Mauer's very good, but he's probably not a .364 hitter.
So here's a look at the Twins' position players and their updated CAIRO projections based on the 35% 2009, 65% 2006-2008 split I am using right now.
| Lineup | Pos | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | pwOBA | 09wOBA | Diff | BR | Outs | dRS |
| denard span | cf | 23 | .305 | .365 | .397 | .327 | .357 | .030 | 3 | 15 | -2 |
| orlando cabrera | ss | 22 | .277 | .324 | .382 | .312 | .314 | .002 | 2 | 15 | 0 |
| joe mauer | c | 22 | .333 | .417 | .503 | .402 | .440 | .039 | 4 | 13 | 8 |
| jason kubel | rf | 21 | .278 | .344 | .487 | .357 | .386 | .029 | 3 | 14 | -7 |
| michael cuddyer | 1b | 21 | .269 | .343 | .469 | .352 | .367 | .015 | 3 | 14 | -2 |
| delmon young | lf | 20 | .285 | .318 | .417 | .320 | .317 | -.003 | 2 | 14 | -11 |
| brendan harris | dh | 19 | .263 | .318 | .389 | .311 | .296 | -.015 | 2 | 13 | 0 |
| matt tolbert | 3b | 19 | .245 | .301 | .343 | .286 | .265 | -.022 | 2 | 13 | -6 |
| nick punto | ss | 15 | .245 | .321 | .320 | .291 | .284 | -.007 | 1 | 10 | 6 |
| jose morales | c | 4 | .268 | .317 | .354 | .300 | .344 | .044 | 0 | 3 | 1 |
| carlos gomez | cf | 3 | .241 | .289 | .345 | .281 | .272 | -.010 | 0 | 2 | 13 |
| brian buscher | 3b | 0 | .256 | .327 | .372 | .312 | .318 | .005 | 0 | 0 | -9 |
| mike redmond | c | 0 | .275 | .320 | .341 | .297 | .271 | -.026 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| joe crede | 3b | 0 | .243 | .300 | .425 | .313 | .304 | -.010 | 0 | 0 | 13 |
| total | 189 | .278 | .339 | .412 | .329 | .339 | .009 | 23 | 125 | 0 |
PA: Estimated plate appearances for the series, assuming it goes the distance.
pwOBA: projected weighted on-base average, a rate version of linear weights
09wOBA: 2009 actual wOBA
Diff: 09wOBA minus pwOBA. As a rough rule of thumb, a difference of .010 in wOBA is worth about five runs over 600 PAs.
BR: Estimated batting runs for the series using linear weights for estimated PA
Outs: Estimated outs for the series based on revised projection and estimated PA
dRS: Defensive projection over 150 games using an average of zone rating and UZR for non-catchers, and for 120 games using a system similar to the one described here for catchers.
Denard Span has a career line of .305/.391/.423 in the majors, so why the mediocre projection? It's because he hit .287/.357/.358 in his minor league career. He's young enough to have tangibly improved from where he's projected, so take that projection with a grain of salt. . Interesting fact, his first name is NOT Denard. It's Keiunta.
Orlando Cabrera came over at the trade deadline in a trade with Oakland, and helped them by getting Alexi Casilla out of the lineup. He hit .292/.316/.424 as a Twin after hitting just .280/.318/.365 for the A's, and at this point in his career he's probably about an average defender.
Obviously, the key to the Twins offense is Joe Mauer. He's by far their best offensive player, and his projection may be underrating him.
Losing Morneau is a big blow to the Twins on paper, but the Twins have averaged 6.35 runs per game since September 13 which was the day after Morneau was lost for the season. While that is very impressive, it's worth noting that it came primarily against Cleveland, Detroit and Kansas City. Jason Kubel has replaced Morneau in the cleanup spot, and Michael Cuddyer has replaced him at first base. Incidentally, Cuddyer's hit .333/ .402/.679 since Morneau has been out.
Delmon Young was once one of the top prospects in baseball, but as you can see his projection and his overall 2009 line is rather unimpressive, and his glove looks like a negative. He's another player who's been tearing it up since Morneau went down, hitting .382/.402/.632. Small sample size blip, or has something finally clicked? It's only 82 PAs, so we probably need to assume it's the former.
I don't know who's going to get the bulk of the DH at bats, so I gave them to Brendan Harris since he had the best offensive projection of the remaining players who weren't penciled into a starting spot. Matt Tolbert and Nick Punto aren't much of an offensive threat on paper.
If you look up and down the 'Diff' column, you can see that several Twins have performed better in 2009 than we'd have expected, but using the distribution of playing time in the table above it would work out to around a .010 difference in collective wOBA between their actual 2009 performance and their revised projections. Over a full season, that's a difference of around 50 runs.
The Twins looked to have a good defense on paper heading into the season, but for whatever reason their team UZR has been really bad at -36. That's 20 runs worse than the Yankees, who aren't exactly the 1985 St. Louis Cardinals. Zone rating likes their defense better than UZR, showing them as +4, but that includes a +6 by Justin Morneau who's no longer part of the equation. Their revised defensive projections have them as a little below average overall, but better than the Yankees by a hair. Over 162 games using the same allocation of playing time, this version of the Twins would project to score around 771 runs and be about 15 runs below average defensively. That's basically an average offensive team.
The Twins have already said Brian Duensing will pitch Game 1 tomorrow. Game 2 would be on Friday and Nick Blackburn would be able to pitch on normal rest so I'm assuming he gets the call there. Scott Baker can pitch game 3 on Sunday on normal rest, then they would probably use Carl Pavano in game 4 on Monday if necessary. If a game 5 (Wednesday) is necessary,
| Pitcher | Role | IP | H | HR | BB | K | pRA | pERA | pFIP | 09ERA | 09FIP | sIP | sR |
| brian duensing | SP1 | 128 | 158 | 18 | 27 | 62 | 5.36 | 5.03 | 4.43 | 3.64 | 4.13 | 6 | 3.6 |
| nick blackburn | SP2 | 180 | 217 | 22 | 37 | 83 | 4.86 | 4.40 | 4.46 | 4.03 | 4.43 | 12 | 6.5 |
| scott baker | SP3 | 184 | 191 | 24 | 42 | 137 | 3.73 | 3.62 | 4.09 | 4.36 | 4.07 | 6 | 2.5 |
| carl pavano | SP4 | 81 | 97 | 12 | 18 | 52 | 5.28 | 4.88 | 4.31 | 5.37 | 4.31 | 5 | 2.9 |
| joe nathan | CL | 69 | 46 | 6 | 19 | 80 | 2.26 | 2.13 | 2.76 | 2.15 | 2.95 | 3 | 0.8 |
| matt guerrier | SU | 78 | 73 | 10 | 22 | 52 | 3.65 | 3.37 | 4.30 | 2.26 | 4.06 | 3 | 1.2 |
| jose mijares | SU | 57 | 49 | 7 | 23 | 52 | 3.64 | 3.46 | 3.68 | 2.33 | 4.01 | 3 | 1.2 |
| jon rauch | MR | 56 | 54 | 7 | 16 | 48 | 3.97 | 3.71 | 3.60 | 1.80 | 3.40 | 3 | 1.3 |
| jesse crain | MR | 55 | 53 | 5 | 21 | 40 | 4.64 | 4.16 | 4.05 | 4.65 | 3.96 | 2 | 1.0 |
| jeff manship | MR | 89 | 109 | 11 | 16 | 48 | 5.93 | 5.56 | 4.20 | 5.68 | 4.94 | 1 | 0.7 |
| luis ayala | MR | 55 | 61 | 6 | 15 | 35 | 5.20 | 4.68 | 4.22 | 4.18 | 4.25 | 1 | 0.6 |
| bobby keppel | LR | 108 | 143 | 15 | 27 | 43 | 7.21 | 6.83 | 4.98 | 4.95 | 4.09 | 0 | 0.0 |
| Total | 45 | 49 | 6 | 11 | 30 | 4.45 | 4.13 | 4.24 | 22.2 |
pRA: Projected runs allowed per nine innings
pERA: Projected earned runs allowed per nine innings
pFIP: Projected Fielding independent pitching
sIP: Estimated innings in the series
sR: Estimated runs allowed in the series based on revised projection and sIP
The Twins rotation doesn't have a Justin Verlander type who really scares you, but they have some pretty nice balance in the rotation. CAIRO thinks Scott Baker is their best starter, but unless they're willing to go with him on short rest he'll probably only be able to start once if the series goes 5 games. Brian Duensing had a very good year, although based on his prior track record he projects to be worse than he was in 2009. Nick Blackburn is a solid pitcher who projects to be better than league average and is probably the most likely candidate to get two starts, and while Carl Pavano didn't have a good ERA in 2009, he actually had decent peripherals and a very respectable 4.31 FIP.
As far as the pen, the Twins have a closer as good as any closer in the game, and they have quality arms in front of him in Matt Guerrier, Jose Mijares, Jon Rauch and Jesse Crain. Not sure how the back end of the pen will shake out, but it's doubtful that whomever they take will have a ton of impact in this series.
The one thing that pops out at me in these numbers is the control of the Twins pitchers, particularly the starters. Out of the eight playoff teams, the Twins team has the best BB/9 rate using my best guess at postseason rosters and innings allocation at 2.25 per 9. Here's how I have all the teams ranked.
| Team | BB/9 |
| Twins | 2.25 |
| Cardinals | 2.59 |
| Yankees | 2.84 |
| Angels | 2.87 |
| Phillies | 2.97 |
| Red Sox | 3.19 |
| Rockies | 3.23 |
| Dodgers | 3.61 |
The bad news for Twins fans is they have the worst K rate out of those same eight teams.
| Team | K/9 |
| Red Sox | 8.05 |
| Yankees | 7.96 |
| Dodgers | 7.80 |
| Phillies | 7.31 |
| Angels | 6.92 |
| Rockies | 6.69 |
| Cardinals | 6.67 |
| Twins | 6.25 |
More bad news for the Twins.
| Team | HR/9 |
| Cardinals | 0.78 |
| Dodgers | 0.82 |
| Yankees | 0.83 |
| Red Sox | 0.92 |
| Rockies | 0.96 |
| Angels | 0.98 |
| Phillies | 1.04 |
| Twins | 1.13 |
Anyway, if we combine the offense, defense and pitching using these projections and playing time estimates, here's how the Twins look on paper.
| #games | 5 |
| home games | 2 |
| #outs | 125 |
| offense | 23.5 |
| pitching | 22.2 |
| defense | -0.4 |
| wpct | .512 |
| 162 gm equiv | 83-79 |
If the Twins had home field advantage they'd look about two wins better, but they don't, so they don't. That doesn't mean they don't have a fighting chance to beat the Yankees, because they most definitely do.
How much of a chance? I'll tell you tomorrow.
Comments
Hats off to SG and his spreadsheet-fu!
it’s almost a shame i couldn’t enjoy the game for what it was. it was epic.
I feel like it was inevitable that the Twins would win once you started putting off this post.
So… best guess is Duesning, Pavano, Blackburn, Baker, Duesning?
[4] Or Duensing, Blackburn, Baker, Pavano, Blackburn.
No, it’s going to be Duensing, Blackburn, Baker, Duensing, Blackburn. Why wouldn’t they use Blackburn twice?
Actually
Duesning, Blackburn, Pavano, Baker, Blackburn
is probably more likely.
Yeah, I thought Blackburn pitched Sunday. That’s my bad.
Actually, I think it’s going to be Deusning, Blackburn, Pavano.
I just added the pitching, based on the assumption that Baker will get two starts.
Wait, I don’t have the calendar in front of me, but you can pitch Game 3 and then Game 5 on regular rest? SG, are you saying Baker when you make Blackburn?
SG, are you saying Baker when you make Blackburn?
Yeah, brain fart.
OK, charts are fixed giving Blackburn two starts instead of Baker.
“mean” not “make”...my brain fart.
Also I don’t see why they wouldn’t go to Baker on reg rest in Game 3 even if it’s Pavano’s “turn.”
Just a guess but Pavano never sees the mound in Yankee Stadium.
Yeah, Baker’s their best pitcher probably. I’d think they’ll want to get him on the mound ASAP. If he pitches Game 3 on Sunday, he might be available in the pen for game 5.
“the Twins have a closer as good as any closer in the game”
Can we ban SG?
[17] Why? Mo’s not a closer. He’s just Mo.
Finally, it is the Twins looming.
Re: Towel waving. Goes back to the Cleveland Indians vs. the Yankees. So I believe.
[19] I thought it was d-bag Steelers fans in the 70s who started the towel thing, and then various teams copied it, including the 87 and 91 Twins.
Man, this is pretty damn exciting.
It’s pretty funny, though, the ESPN folks would love to find a reason to pick against the Yankees but they just can’t.
Also, it’s going to be kind of annoying listening to Caray and Darling tomorrow, right?
There are 3 games tomorrow, so maybe Chip will be calling one of the other ones? Or maybe he will be on a plane to LA/Anahiem to cover that series? If they want to save money, I would be cool with tbs having no annoncers tomorrow and just hearing the crowd/PA/sounds of the game.
[22] They already announced that Caray/Darling would be covering the Yankees series. So we get Mr. BASE HIT.
the ESPN folks would love to find a reason to pick against the Yankees but they just can’t.
Kruk came pretty close actually.
Wow, that was a heckuva game. Well, I’ve gotten my wish: Twins, not Tigers. They say to be careful what you wish for, but…
The way I see it, the Twins have ~4 major league hitters in their lineup:
Mauer (maybe he’s worth 2)
Cuddyer
Kubel
Span
And their rotation doesn’t scare me.
I’m going to miss the first couple of hours of the game tonight, which is irritating. I look forward to tuning in and hearing that the Yanks have a comfortable lead.
So, the ESPN experts have their picks: most pick Yankees or the Cardinals to win the World Series. However, there is a dangerously stupid man who has something like this as the progression of the post-season:
ALDS:
Red Sox over Angels
Yankees over Twins
NLDS:
Phillies over Rockies
Dodgers over Cards
ALCS:
Yankees over Angels
NLCS:
Phillies over Dodgers
World Series:
Yankees in 6
He thinks even though Red Sox will beat the Angels in the division series, Angels will be able to advance to play the Yankees.
I think his writing privileges will be taken away. I have not reached this conclusion based on this gaffe (which is probably an intern gaffe anyway), but still it is another data point in my estimate of just how stupid this guy is.
I think his writing privileges <strike>will</strike>should be taken away.
I believe I was dreaming. I just woke up.
Huh. So THIS year, they finally get smart and move the start times up, so the game tonight is supposed to start at 6:07? Man, I could theoretically miss the entire game. I’ll be unable to watch or listen from 6:30 to 9. This sucks.
Root extra hard for me, boys and girls.
Don’t they usually start an hour after the start time anyway? (Not that that helps Rob.)
I have no expectations anymore after the 2004 collapse.
I’m just noticing that Duensing (4.36) and Blackburn (4.15) have really low K/9 rates, along with low BB/9 rates. So they can both be counted on to put a lot of balls in play. Isn’t that exactly what you DON’T want to do in the playoffs, especially against a mashing lineup like the NYY?
[29] I have no expectations anymore after the 2004 collapse.
I feel the same way, but if the Yankees win a playoff series, I think they will win the next two series.
sam- Which guy was that? Can you send out a link?
Nevermind, I found it.
An article (by Ian O’Connor of all people) that describes how Jeter changed his training regimen beginning in January of 2008 to increase his range:
Jeter realized he had to alter his method of preparation. He realized he had to improve to meet his stated goal of playing well into his 40s, and of spending the majority of those years at the only position he’s ever wanted to hold.
So with Yankees officials and coaches privately hoping their shortstop could restore his diminishing range and table the ultradelicate issue of a possible move to the outfield, Jeter hired a new fitness trainer before last season for the purpose of fielding more balls to his left.
“We discussed how we can keep him in the game as long as he wants to play,” said Jason Riley, director of performance of the Athletes Compound at Tampa’s Saddlebrook Resort. “Derek said it may not be eight to 10 years at shortstop, but that he wanted to play that long.
“So in his case we were looking at speed and agility. Our main focus was improving his defensive skills and first-step quickness.”
Riley discovered immediately why Jeter had little trouble making plays to his right, to his rear and toward the infield grass, and yet struggled when moving toward second base.
Jeter had limited ankle mobility and far less flexibility in his left hip than he did in his right, a condition not uncommon for a ballplayer hitting and throwing from the right side.
That was an entertaining game last night to say the least. I was constantly conflicted about the outcome. You know if the Yanks were on the sidelines this year as they were last year, I’d be rooting for the Twins and on the good side of my wife’s family. As it is I’ll be firmly behind my Yanks.
One thing that is good I think is that aside from what the weather will be in Yankee Stadium, the elements won’t play a part in the games in the dome. (as opposed to Comerica) I think we are definitely in a cold, windy and wet pattern for the next several days. What’s the forecast for the next few days in the Bronx?
I was surprised that Porcello and Tigers played pretty evenly for the better part of the game. The misplay in left by Rayburn was a home field advantage thing. Aside from Toronto,Minnesota and Tampa most clubs play very few games on turf anymore. I also wonder if he kind of lost sight of that ball as his glove was in line to make the catch. I think Twins caught some special breaks in the game. The double up of Granderson at first wasn’t even replayed.
LH Duensing was a member of the Nebraska team at some point I think he was on the same squad as Joba and Gordon.
If they want to save money, I would be cool with tbs having no annoncers tomorrow and just hearing the crowd/PA/sounds of the game.
This has been a dream of mine for some time. I hope one day that TVs will be able to break down the audio feed and mute only the sound coming from the booth.
It’s pretty funny, though, the ESPN folks would love to find a reason to pick against the Yankees but they just can’t.
This is so they can go ape if the Twins beat the Yankees, calling it the simultaneously the greatest feat ever for an underdog and the biggest disgrace in history by the Yankees.
[36] This is so they can go ape if the Twins beat the Yankees, calling it the simultaneously the greatest feat ever for an underdog and the biggest disgrace in history by the Yankees.
Yup, the groundwork for that began on “Mike and Mike” this morning, with Greenberg calling the series perhaps the biggest mismatch in sports history.
Stark: Not that they won’t find something else to worry about. They’re the Yankees. If they can’t, their always-helpful media will find something for them.
...you know, I’m not a Stark fan, but I really have to agree on this.
Cervelli, Gaudin, Marte in, Guzman out.
Um.. how scary would the Twins be had they kept Santana, Hunter, Garza and Bartlett? Pretty scary. It’s weird that Twins fans hate the Yankees so much for their big-marketedness. How can you stand such a cheapskate owner?
The misplay in left by Rayburn was a home field advantage thing.
It looked more like a young kid trying to do too much thing to me. I don’t think the roof entered into it, and I certainly don’t think the turf had anything to do with it. I really doubt that it gets past him if he plays it on a hop and it’s not like the ball would have just hit and stuck on grass.
I think Twins caught some special breaks in the game. The double up of Granderson at first wasn’t even replayed.
It was replayed. It wasn’t close. They certainly got some breaks, but I’d say mostly from the Tigers rather than the umpires.
Cervelli, Gaudin, Marte in, Guzman out.
So eleven pitchers?
How can you stand such a cheapskate owner?
Well, the guy finally died, and I don’t think anybody really knows his heirs. Anyway, the Garza/Bartlett thing was just a bad trade—I don’t think it was so much about money. They made like $2.5M between them this year; Young, Harris and Pridie cost almost $2M. Letting Hunter go was a reasonable decision for any team given his age and cost. Santana? Yeah, they should have broken the bank (or at least gotten a better return).
Letting Hunter go was a reasonable decision for any team given his age and cost.
Yeah, this has been a career-year for him hasn’t it? Pretty sure he was trending down the last few years as well. I don’t know what the thought process in everything was; i.e. they got Gomez to replace him (which doesn’t seem to have worked out yet, just glancing at his stats), but perhaps they figured it was a no-brainer they could get a decent CF for Johan. Right decision to let Hunter go, perhaps not the best thinking in replacing him.
So eleven pitchers?
Seems the idea is Twins have several lefties, so having the second lefty out of the pen is desireable. And I guess either Coke or Marte (or both) they aren’t comfortable as being more than a LOOGY right now so they need the righties, too. Or maybe they had ARod hit baseballs w/ names on them and the ones that cleared the fence were on the roster.
They made like $2.5M between them this year; Young, Harris and Pridie cost almost $2M.
I was obviously referring to the guys who left via free agency.
I think Twins caught some special breaks in the game. The double up of Granderson at first wasn’t even replayed.
It was replayed. It wasn’t close. They certainly got some breaks, but I’d say mostly from the Tigers rather than the umpires.
Well, there was also that HBP with the bases loaded and a tie score that was called a ball, weak as it may have been.
[43] Sorry, but it wasn’t obvious at all. You lumped them all in together and finished up with the cheapskate owner complaint. It sure sounded like you thought Garza was more expensive than he is.
Well, there was also that HBP with the bases loaded and a tie score that was called a ball, weak as it may have been.
Yes, but the game would have already been over by then had it not been for an earlier HBP that was every bit as weak.
Yeah, this has been a career-year for him hasn’t it?
Is it possible to have a career year when you miss 40+ games? It’s like he’s a catcher. Actually, his walk year was pretty close to a career year. Hard to blame the Twins for not thinking he’d repeat it very often in his mid-to-late thirties.
[43] Sorry, but it wasn’t obvious at all. You lumped them all in together and finished up with the cheapskate owner complaint. It sure sounded like you thought Garza was more expensive than he is.
Hey, at least you got to educate us on how much Garza and Bartlett make.
Is it possible to have a career year when you miss 40+ games?
I suppose it is on how you measure it. By OPS/OPS+ it is his top year, as well as wOBA. Of course as you noted it doesn’t account for playing-time, and his wRC (FanGraphs) is middle of the pack. However, wRAA (against average) is his highest (slightly). Add in defense though, and it is his second most valueable season since 2002. And since exactly 2002 since that was the only season he was more valuable. So yeah, I’d say the Twins did the right thing. For a club in their position, signing Hunter and hoping he would be as good/better than his previous three years is the type of signing that can set them back years.
Kruk came pretty close actually.
Yeah, that was the prediction that made me laugh - he came as close as you could come to saying, “I think the Twins will win” but ultimately said, “Yeah, the Twins won’t win.”
Next entry: How Good Are the 2009 ALDS Version of the Yankees On a Spreadsheet?
Previous entry: Tigers (86-76) @ Twins (86-76), Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 5:07pm **Game Chatter**
There are currently 80 visitors who are not logged in.
There was a record 241 simultaneous visitors on May 2, 2011 at 11:54:25 pm.











