Have something against Hideki Matsui?

Why not include his 2005 and 2007 seasons instead of Gamble and Pasqua? Just to get more names on there? I mean seriously, the guy has 100 RBI’s for four of his five years in pinstripes, hit over 20 homers three times, never below a .285 average, and until he got hurt played a solid left field. Yet Roy White, Dan Pasqua and a 113 AB season from Oscar Gamble top his 2005 & 07 seasons?

I must respectfully disagree.

Have something against Hideki Matsui?

Nope

Why not include his 2005 and 2007 seasons instead of Gamble and Pasqua?

Because the list only goes to 20, and Matsui’s seasons were not as vauable using the objective system I’m using, although the differences are within the margin of error. I’ll add 21-40 for the hell of it.

Wow, thanks.

But I just have to question how 113 AB’s is more valuable than a guy who played every game?

Wait…

IS THAT SWEET LOU PINIELLA?!?!?!

But I just have to question how 113 AB’s is more valuable than a guy who played every game?

All comparisons are to the league average for the same position in the same year.  Gamble’s offense was worth .2435 runs per plate appearance and the average AL LF was worth .1333 runs per plate appearance(using linear weights.  So I subtract .1333 from .2435 and multiply that by Gamble’s actual plate appearances to get his batting runs above average.  In this system, that makes Gamble’s 1979 more valuable. Matsui’s 2007, while superficially solid, saw him being worth .1509 runs per PA compared to the AL average of .1375 runs per PA.

You can certainly disagree and value playing time or other factors, this isn’t meant to be a definitive list. 

IS THAT SWEET LOU PINIELLA?!?!?!

Indeed it is.

Wasn’t Dave Winfield pretty good (.340) in 84? Am I blind or did he not make the top 40 with that season?

Winfield was quite good in ‘84.  But he played more games in RF.

Has a Yankee ever hit .400?

Winfield was quite good in ‘84.  But he played more games in RF.

Which sort of gets back to my earlier quesiton about just lumping the corner OFs together and doing twice as long a list.  It seems there’s bound to be a lot of split seasons, especially in earlier eras.  Anyway, where are you getting the positional breakdowns, SG?  I knew that Maris was in CF and Mantle in RF for most of 1964, but I had no idea that Mantle was mainly a LF in 1965.  Or that DiMaggio wasn’t the primary CF even as a rookie.

Babe Ruth’s .393 in 1923 is the Yankee team record for BA.

Oh, and BTW, Roy White = Jim Rice.  Discuss.

Which sort of gets back to my earlier quesiton about just lumping the corner OFs together and doing twice as long a list.  It seems there’s bound to be a lot of split seasons, especially in earlier eras.

Yeah, but doing it this way gives me two posts instead of one.

Anyway, where are you getting the positional breakdowns

The Lahman database has a table called FieldingOF which breaks it down.

Wow. 1924 and 1925 must have been some serious offensive years for Bob Meusel not to crack the top 20 with those numbers.

“Roy White = Jim Rice.  Discuss.”

Roy White is the player *I* most fear from Jim Rice’s era.  Put him in the Hall!

On the defensive side of the spectrum, I have never seen a player bring back more HR than Winfield.

how about birdie cree’s 1911 season. 520 AB’s in 137 games and ZERO STRIKEOUTS??? that is insane.I cannot imagine many players can make that same claim, I really cannot believe that.

I think strikeouts and caught stealings were not recorded in the early 1900s. Although if anyone could have pulled it off, it’d be Birdie.

Hmm… How about this line…

G 8
PA 24
AB 22
H 10
2B 2
3B 0
HR 5
RBI 8
BA .455
OBP .500
SLG 1.227
OPS 1.727
sOPS+ 322
tOPS+ 156

Whose line, pray tell?

Shane Spencer, 1998, as a LF.

“Oh, and BTW, Roy White = Jim Rice.  Discuss.”
That’s insulting to Roy White.

Birdie Cree is covered in some detail in Yankee Century by Glenn Stout, if anyone is interested.

“I think strikeouts and caught stealings were not recorded in the early 1900s”

From my cursory examination of B-Ref, there appear to be holes in the stats.  No SOs are recorded for Birdie Cree before 1913; however Honus Wagner’s SOs start being recorded in 1910.  And Cy Young’s SOs (as a pitcher, of course) are recorded from the beginning of his career in 1890.

“SOs”

Or Ks, if you like, B-Ref calls the SOs.

BY the way, for Cy Young as a batter, strikeouts are recorded from 1890-1896, and then not again until 1911, but only for the part of the year he spent in the NL.  So maybe there’s a league difference here too.

According to Glenn Stout in Yankees Century, Birdie Cree would have had a greater career if he hadn’t injured his shoulder.  There’s a picture of Cree in the book that looks an awful lot like Derek Jeter’s older brother.

Shane Spencer, 1998, as a LF.

Quite impressive, but you do realize that that’s not how any of the other comparisons here are being made, right?  Spencer played more RF than LF in 1998, so he couldn’t make this list even if his OPS as a LF was 5.000.

Besides, his overall line of 373/411/910 is sweet enough as it is.

I got <u>Yankee Century</u> as a birthday gift and it’s sitting on my coffee table but I never bothered to read it.  Maybe I should…

Super Bowl predictions?

Giants 34
Patriots 31

Super Bowl predictions?

Giants 34
Patriots 31

Heh, you live in a fantasy world I would like to see someday…

NE 38-24 NYG

So, how much more money is Santana going to get now than what was offered to him an hour ago?  You gotta figure he has a lot more leverage than the mets.  This could be interesting.

Does this remind anyone of the Matsuzaka bidding thing? Maybe it’s not an exact analogy, but would you have given up Hughes if you could sign Santana well below market rate?

What happens if Santana and the Mets walk away from this?  As DaPuj put it, this could be interesting.

Heh, you live in a fantasy world I would like to see someday…

NE 38-24 NYG

NYG 23 NE 17

Plaxico keeps telling people the way it is, but no one ever listens.  Like he told Green Bay how many times Al Harris couldn’t cover him?  BIP (Believe in Plaxico)!

I think the big difference between the Matsuzaka situation and this one is that Santana can say no, and the twins could get another crack at trading him; either before the season, or during.  So there’s much less leverage on the part of the Mets than the Red Sox had.  If they didn’t work out a deal, Matsuzaka stays in Japan for a whole year, no do-overs. 

Santana’s not going to take a below market rate.  I think he’s comfortable with the risk assumed in delaying the payout for a year.  That’s really all the mets can offer, is a deal one year earlier, where they have now assumed the injury risk.

but would you have given up Hughes if you could sign Santana well below market rate? 

If in 30 minutes it isn’t settled, Cashman should offer IPK, Alan Horne, and Juan Miranda (I know they don’t need a 1B, but I think they could use a regular DH).  See how desperate they are now.  I mean, what are they going to do, laugh?

A few sources are reporting the deal has been struck.  I guess I was hoping for a little more pandemonium, but I’m kind of glad he’s going to the Mets.

“I got Yankee Century as a birthday gift and it’s sitting on my coffee table but I never bothered to read it.  Maybe I should…”

It’s a good book. Stout is a pretty good a writer and draws some interesting conclusions about things like Hal Chase and the Babe Ruth trade.

I still have a Roy White bat I received on Bat Day in 1973. I loved that fella. What a wierd duck toed stance he had. Sorry Jim Rice was a better hitter. I’ll go hide now.

What a wierd duck toed stance he had.

The really weird thing was how different he was batting righty vs lefty.  I can’t think of another switch hitter like him.

Sorry Jim Rice was a better hitter. I’ll go hide now.

No need to hide.  White had 7735 PA of 121 OPS+; Rice had 9058 PA of 128 OPS+.  So yeah, Rice was a better hitter.  Since these lists are offense only, maybe this wasn’t the best place to make the White on Rice comparison.  But the argument is that when you look at total value—batting, baserunning, and defense—they’re basically the same player.  And it’s not my argument, it’s Bill James’.

White on Rice.  Large grin plastered on my face MC. IE would be proud of that one.

Top of the head. Avian MLBers
Birdy Cree
Birdey Tebbetts
Hawk Harrelsen SIC on all.
Frank Crow Crosetti
Mark The Bird Fidrych
The seagull Winfield beaned
Thats it for me. There has to be more.No ravens,owls or falcons? A pelican or two? I cant believe I’m posting this.

Thurm, you forgot Phil Regan, “The Vulture”.

Good Lad SG. That gives us two very decent pitchers. I’m wracking whats left of my dura matter , trying to recall a late 50’s early 60’ Cub or Phillie pitcher. Maybe I should turn the NFL network off.

Saints preserve us , How could I forget Fred Chicken Stanley from my own high school days?

Cant put my hand on a bible about this one but I think Rick Burleson may have been a Rooster.

This is what happens when your wife goes to art class and you are home alone with 600 dollars worth of single malt scotch in the cabinet.
No wonder everyone hates the US.

Thurm, I believe Randy Johnson obliviated a pigeon with a pitched ball once.  Sort of a Ray Chapman moment.

And of course Carl Pavano is the Albatross.

Nice one Fgas. Albatross might be the nicest term any Yankees fan has bestowed upon His Wussiness.
I slept on it and came up with only Ducky Joe Medwick of Gas House Gang fame.
HOF’er class of 68. .324 lifetime and not a big fan of the base on balls.

Not to get all hung up on the obvious, but…

Doug Bird
Frank Bird
George Bird
Red Bird
Conrad Cardinal
Jose Cardenal (OK, maybe not)
Joel Finch
Robin Jennings
Robin Roberts
Robin Ventura
Robin Yount

And if you wanted to stretch things just a wee bit further, a whole slew of guys named Jay.  There’s also Cuckoo Christensen and Charlie “Cuckoo” Jamieson, Doug “The Red Rooster” Rader, Tris “The Grey Eagle” Speaker, and Jake “Eagle Eye” Beckley.  Not to mention Mike Gallo and Pete Falcone.  Frank Wren could be the GM of the all airborne team.

Holy Goose Gossage Down Pillows! I now know how Eric Clapton felt the first time he went and saw Hendrix perform. Awesome stuff MC.
And you were having a good weekend with just the White on Rice.
I must confess the Mike Gallo I don’t get. Sister Maximus Beatamick would flay me alive but much of the Latin has left the building.

Baseball-Reference is fun!

Andy, Craig, Russ, and of course “Ducky” Swan.  Pedro Swann.  And a host of Swansons, but that’s PUSHING IT, man.

Can’t believe I missed Ducky Medwick.  My father in law saw him play, loved the guy.

Can the Giants please fucking score? Brady on his back is lovely but goddammn.
A little no huddle to punish those Pats senior citizens is in order.
Justin Tuck MVP on a losing team?  I hope not. All Jet fans send love to Blue guys.

I kinda wish Tom Petty had a wardrobe malfunction.
Not.

Aikman is a terrible announcer.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you had $10 on Eli Manning being the Super Bowl MVP, you just won a million dollars.

I should have said at the start of the season.

does this make up for 2004?  no, not quite.  but it’s a nice start. 

btw, giants were 19-1 to win the superbowl before the championship games.  cha-ching!

24. Posted at 5:35:56 pm on Friday, February 1, 2008 by tokyojordan

NE 38-24 NYG

TJ- Looks like I was right on the differential, wrong on the score. Welcome to my fantasy world.

Bold prediction- Yanks in 6,

Thurm,

Gallo is Italian for cock.  No, not that kind.

Sid Finch was fictional, but how can you keep him off the all avian team.  Rory Sparrow was a basketball player, so he doesn’t count.

A few more without thought or research:
How about Ron “the Penguin” Cey.  Remember Mets pitcher Craig Swann.  On the subject of long ago Mets,  George “Stork” Theodore. Goose Goslin was a Hall of Famer.  Ron “The Gander” Davis was setup man for Goose Gossage.

Jack McDowell was known for flipping the bird…

EB,

That was Sidd Finch.  Two d’s.  Short for Siddhartha.

Don’t know how we missed the Penguin.  I remember Craig Swan, but I’m blanking on the Stork.  Didn’t the ‘80s Raiders have a HOF linebacker who went by that nickname, too?

Never heard Davis referred to as “The Gander.”  You sure you didn’t just make that one up?