I hope he’s useful, but I’m fairly skeptical too. We’ll see, maybe his speed will allow his game to translate better than expected. Good for him.

Who was sent down? Christian?

Wait, weren’t people clamoring for Gardner just a couple of days ago?  Where’s the jubilation??

Speaking of potential candidates to be sent down in order to make room on the roster for Gardner, I would think the need to carry three catchers is diminishing.

with Gardner up, i’d like to see him start in CF for 2 weeks straight.  we have to see what we have here.  could be something, could be nothing.  not that 2 weeks is long enough to prove anything, but it’s better than Garnder thinking his first 0fer will get him sent back down.

what do they have to lose?  Melky’s arm?

this is the lineup i would run out there:

Damon - LF
Jeter
Abreu
A-Rod
Giambi - DH/1B
Posada
Cano
Betemit - 1B/DH
Gardner - CF

let’s see how that works out.

Speaking of potential candidates to be sent down in order to make room on the roster for Gardner, I would think the need to carry three catchers is diminishing.

probably, but there is little need for Christian who is basically Gardner’s mirror image.

i’d rather be extra careful with Posada than keep a 5th OFer.

Heres your jubilation. Its about time! I hope he starts tonight against the Rangers. Sure I’m skeptical about how his game will translate to the bigs but his range and speed doesn’t take days off, and his .412 obp is what I’m looking for. Once he works his way on let the track meet begin.

The only way we can know how his game translates is to give him a chance to play.  Hopefully he doesn’t get caught in a SSS if his first few weeks don’t go well.  I suppose my jubiliation will be tempered until I know how he is going to be used.

I’d have to imagine it is Christian going down right now.  I think over the next few weeks Cashman will be actively shopping both Moeller and Molina, to see what they can bring back (obviously, only one would be traded).  If he can trade one great, if not, I think Moeller will be sent down; and probably claimed by someone.  After that we’ll see what the roster looks like.

The Yanks like Molina’s throwing arm too much to trade him and any team could have had Moeller for nothing two months ago.  Neither will be traded.  Actually, having three catchers makes a certain amount of sense as either Molina or Moeller can be pinch hit for late in a game fairly easily. 

By the way, is Damon hurt or is his arch just nagging him?

Who is pitching tonight?  I thought it was Joba, but I saw Mussina listed somewhere.

It’s Moose, going on short rest tonight.  Cover your eyes…

Gardner’s speed on the bases and in the outfield would seem to make him a good fit for the Yankees’ bench right now.

I look forward to seeing him play, though one concern I’d have is that Gardner’s track record seems to indicate that he takes time to adjust when moved up a level, so I hope people don’t cement their perceptions of him if his major league performance is subpar this year.

Hooray, the new Juan Pierre Era has begun!

Justin Christian, who is 28, is a good fit for the bench.  A still developing 24 year old like Gardner needs to play.  I assume he’s going to start because otherwise the Yanks would rather see him get regular at bats in AAA.  Also, at the very worst, Gardner’s track record indicates he will at least see plenty of pitches per at bat - unlike Melky.  Also, Texas basically has a AAA pitching staff so the transition should be fairly smooth.

Christian doesn’t really belong on the roster.  If he does, it’s as a pinch runner, 5th OF role.

Oh dear, Manny is being Manny again.

there is no way they will trade molina. He is pretty important at this point. We need the best backup catcher in the league because posada could get hurt at any time. And like someone else said...nobody wants moeller. I think the three catcher thing needs to end sometime soon. Moeller has hardly played over the last 3 or 4 weeks. Now that interleague play is done (I think) 3 catchers is a little much.

"It’s Moose, going on short rest tonight.  Cover your eyes…”

I don’t think it’s really “short rest” given how brief his last appearance was.

The Yanks like Molina’s throwing arm too much to trade him and any team could have had Moeller for nothing two months ago.  Neither will be traded.

Right, the key for Moeller is two months ago.  He’s also played fairly well since then, and of course two months ago doesn’t take into account any injury/ineffectiveness for a team’s catchers since then.  Also w/ Molina, I agree they’ll want MORE for him than they would for Moeller, but I think it would be ridiculous not to ask what someone would offer for him.

Either way, I think the likelihood of either one being traded is indeed slim.  I think it would be a feather in Cashman’s cap if he can get anything for Moeller (think getting Proctor for Ventura) or get enough to make it worth trading Molina.  I certainly think he is going to *try* however, and not just dump Moeller in a few weeks (assuming Posada proves he is 100% healthy w/ no setbacks).

I don’t think it’s really “short rest” given how brief his last appearance was.

True.  I was just thinking of how much Moose is a creature of habit.  Hopefully he’ll do well, I want him to get his 11th win already.

Oh dear, Manny is being Manny again.

That goes past MBM status.  That’s Manny being a cowardly jackass.  Push an employee who would get a pink slip for fighting you - what a tough guy.

They are one big happy family up there, looking to defend their WS title.

I wonder if this is Gardner’s showcase.  Horne is down with some sort of injury and no one looks ready to join the rotation.  Cash and Joe have to know that the playoffs won’t be reached with Giese, Ponson and Rasner in your rotation.  By the time Kennedy and Hughes are ready for the rotation, it might be too late.

Didn’t actually finish the thought - Gardner might spearhead a trade for a starting pitcher if he plays well enough.

Im sure he is going to *try* to trade pavano too

Does anyone remember what the Yanks gave up for Molina?  A mediocre AA pitcher named Jeff Kennard (although the perpetually gloomy Steve Lombardi feared he could be a late blooming Scot Shields).

Im sure he is going to *try* to trade pavano too

If nobody has ever in recorded history googled you except to figure out if you are alive or not, your trade value is probably on the low side.

If nobody has ever in recorded history googled you except to figure out if you are alive or not

...and hoping for the “not” option…

Darrell Rasner Interview

Not good news on Bobby Murcer

I kind of like that we have texas before boston and tampa bay. Texas is definitely going to test our pitchers (althought I really dont think they will continue to be the offensive juggernaut they have been thus far). I look forward to seeing joba pitch against them. But I think more importantly, their garbage pitching staff is going to help heat up our bats. Also, I think bringing gardner up to face their staff is going to be a good transition for him. (I hope he plays center and not left) What is Johnny Damons status for this series?

I will be disappointed if we dont put up 30 runs this series. Now that I said that, I am sure the yanks will win the first game 30-5 and not score for the rest of the series.

"with Gardner up, i’d like to see him start in CF for 2 weeks straight.  we have to see what we have here.”

Is two weeks enough to see anything?  50 ABs gives 20 on-bases for 0.400 and sqrt(20) is four or five so one expects a statistical measurement of about 20-25% so one can’t really distinguish an 0.300 OBP from an 0.500.  And that ignores systematics like pitcher handedness and quality over that sample, and varying batter calibration.  Plus, well, the likely period of adjustment for seeing ML pitching every day.  (SG, can you easily pull up the variance for two week subsamples over a season of OBP or OPS for a sample of MLers?)

Moose is going for the donuts tonight (team clubhouse gets donuts back after he gets 12 win) so i’m pretty hopeful for him

"Cash and Joe have to know that the playoffs won’t be reached with Giese, Ponson and Rasner in your rotation.”

Right, but unless someone ELSE gets injured, in which case we’d just be screwed anyway, only 2 of those 3 will be in the rotation, and hopefully only 1 in the not-so-distant future(hughes/kennedy return).

Pettite/Moose/Joba/crap#1/crap#2, if our offense ever performs up to expectations, can keep us in the race for a playoff spot.

crap#1/crap#2

If Sidney Ponson read’s this, he’s going to be crying himself to sleep tonight hugging his absolutely massive body pillow.

read’s

And if Lynn Truss reads this…

Shame Gardner isn’t a righty swinger then a platoon with Melky would be in order.  Meanwhile Melky made a helluva catch against the Mets on Saturday that might have been the difference between winning and losing.  Can Gardner go get it like Melky?  Although I’m disappointed with Melky’s offense I think he gets too much blame here since his D to the naked eye has somewhat compensated for his reduced offensive output.

I’m hoping we can take at least two out of three from Texas and beat up on their pitching and then Rasner and Ponson can keep us in the games they pitch while our offense takes charge until IPK comes back and shines as he did last year.  Going in to the Mets series I would have taken a split but after Saturday’s Petitte gem I was certainly hoping for 3 out of 4.

Moose is going for the donuts tonight (team clubhouse gets donuts back after he gets 12 win) so i’m pretty hopeful for him

Perhaps this will inspire the defense to be sharp behind Mike?  Minor quibble: he’s going for #11, not 12, tonight...still every win is one step closer to the donut-land!

That said, donuts?  Seriously?  I can see how taking ice cream away would upset people, but donuts?

Pettite/Moose/Joba/crap#1/crap#2, if our offense ever performs up to expectations, can keep us in the race for a playoff spot.

Not pointing to anyone specifically, as I wasn’t very high on Mussina coming in to this year, but some even wanted him out of the rotation before the year even started. Crazy the way things change..

I totally agree, I was calling for mussina’s head late last season. How I love being wrong!

36, 37: easy there, folks!  My jinx-o-meter is already off the charts!

Ha good point.. we need some good reverse jinx mojo.

Oh i’m not predicting the future. Just saying, had we canned him after last year, we’re not sitting where we are today having this discussion.

I’m not so sure Pettitte/Joba/Moose can make it to the playoffs. Joba will probably struggle, Pettitte is streaky, and Moose is old. If Matsui’s injury is bad enough to knock him out for the season, I’d rather be sellers at the deadline instead of doing something like trading for Arroyo and signing Bonds.

Ha good point.. we need some good reverse jinx mojo.

I’m not so sure Pettitte/Joba/Moose can make it to the playoffs. Joba will probably struggle, Pettitte is streaky, and Moose is old. If Matsui’s injury is bad enough to knock him out for the season, I’d rather be sellers at the deadline instead of doing something like trading for Arroyo and signing Bonds.

Perfect reverse jinx, thanks.

Anytime.

Man fuck the NL. Losing one of the best pitchers in the majors. I hate it.

It annoys me when people think there are only buyers and sellers. I don’t think we should be either. There aren’t any guys who are worth trading for(argument can be made for CC), and who would we “sell”? Matsui was in the debate but if he’s gone long-term we obviously can’t trade him.

I don’t know that we can MAKE the playoffs with that rotation, but as is usually the case, I think they can keep us in the hunt(courtesy of our offense).

As for Gardner, at least when he starts and sucks it won’t piss us off. So there’s that.

**Written before I saw the reverse-jinx. Naturally we won’t make the playoffs.

Moose is going for the donuts tonight (team clubhouse gets donuts back after he gets 12 win) so i’m pretty hopeful for him

not as hopeful as ponson is… this must be like christmas eve

As for Gardner, at least when he starts and sucks it won’t piss us off. So there’s that.

Oh?  And whatever makes you think that?  It’s clear that Cashman and co. have no clue what’s going on with this team, they don’t have any focus, or a plan, or a vision.  They’re trying to sell us on these prospects, who all then turn out to suck.  Cashman sucks, he should’ve signed Bartolo Colon and traded CJ Henry and Melky Cabrera for Grady Sizemore and Sabathia.

i had a dream last night where i described to a beautiful ballerina how mussina was ALREADY a hall of famer.

that being said he sucks and should eat shit and die.

if we can stagger into the playoffs with a healthy wang, joba, pettitte and moose we are dangerous.

I agree we should have signed Colon. I never heard of this deal for CC and sizemore.

Haha my comment wasn’t supposed to say Gardner will suck ALL the time. But if he has an 0 for 4, you won’t see the, “Remember when Melky used to be good?” comments.

I agree we should have signed Colon. I never heard of this deal for CC and sizemore.

You might want to recalibrate your sarcasm-o-meter.

"You might want to recalibrate your sarcasm-o-meter. “

I still think we shoudl have signed colon. He got what 2.5-3M? Big stein blows that on roast beef sandwiches.

Big stein blows that on roast beef sandwiches.

So does Colon, by the looks of him.

"So does Colon, by the looks of him. “

he does look an awful lot like king hippo from mike tysons punch out

ym...I thought you were serious until I read the last sentence.

I still think we shoudl have signed colon. He got what 2.5-3M?

How do you know Cash didn’t offer him a MiL deal, and he turned it down because he thought he’d have a better chance with the Sox?

Is two weeks enough to see anything?

not at all.

which is why i wrote this 1 sentence later: “not that 2 weeks is long enough to prove anything, but it’s better than Garnder thinking his first 0fer will get him sent back down.”

Anyone going to the Baseball Prospectus event tonight?  Has anyone ever gone?  It’s only 2 blocks from my office, I’m tempted...Suggestions?

"How do you know Cash didn’t offer him a MiL deal, and he turned it down because he thought he’d have a better chance with the Sox?”

I dont. How do you know he did?

ym...I thought you were serious until I read the last sentence.

Sorry...I guess I should make it a bit more obvious next time.

Anyone going to the Baseball Prospectus event tonight?  Has anyone ever gone?  It’s only 2 blocks from my office, I’m tempted...Suggestions?

Sounds like it would be quite the sausage-fest, so I’m sure you’d be welcomed with open arms.

I don’t know, it looked rather obvious to me. 

On the other hand, I once lived in Galicia - a region of northwest Spain which locals called, “the land of irony.” Unfortunately, they had the poorest sense of irony of any people I’ve ever seen.  Perhaps that, in fact, was the irony.

Sounds like it would be quite the sausage-fest, so I’m sure you’d be welcomed with open arms.

That’s not the suggestion I was going for, but thanks nonetheless

his .412 obp is what I’m looking for

You might be looking a long time.  This is in no way a criticism of Gardner, but it would be quite a surprise to me if a guy like him walked much at all in his first few weeks in the show.  This is a guy who is hitting .287 with three homers in half a season at AAA, and everybody knows that his speed is off the charts.  So any major league pitcher who doesn’t throw him strikes should be summarily executed.  It really doesn’t matter how much patience or how good a batting eye he has, he’s going to have to prove that he can hit before he’ll get many free passes.

50 ABs gives 20 on-bases for 0.400 and sqrt(20) is four or five so one expects a statistical measurement of about 20-25% so one can’t really distinguish an 0.300 OBP from an 0.500.

Anybody can hit anything in 50 PAs.  Or 100, for that matter.

I dont. How do you know he did?

i don’t, how do you know he didn’t?

the dance continues.

Regarding Gardner and two weeks, it’s true that we can’t really draw distinctions from his statistics in a two week stretch, but I think you may be able to make some scouting observations about whether or not he’s ready.  If MLB pitchers are knocking the bat out of his hands and if his routes on defense look bad then he’s clearly not ready, but if he puts together decent PAs and plays good defense then he’s probably showing enough to get some consideration.

rilkefan does bring up a good point about variance over two week stretches.  I don’t have the time to look at that right now but will try to get to it this week.

On the other hand, Brett Butler had very little power but a consistently high OBP.  Plenty of major league pitchers have problems throwing strikes.  If Gardner takes pitches and fouls off some tough ones, he will get his share of walks.  Let’s not forget that even Melky, in his rookie year, posted a .360 OBP even though he had very little power to speak of.  Gardner has been a selective hitter throughout his minor league career.  Some of that will translate to the majors.  Just how much remains to be seen.

Brett Butler.  Vince Coleman.  Otis “The Running Raisin” Nixon.  The eighties had several players that Gardner could emulate.  The game has passed those players by, so it will be tougher for Gardner to find his spot.

I think if he learn to control the strike zone he could be a dangerous player, especially on this team, which has plenty of power elsewhere in the lineup.

He has struggled with each promotion, so I don’t know if two weeks will do him justice.  I do think the organization, as well as the scouts from other teams, will get a handle on whether he will be able to play in the majors in the near- or long term.

I’d love to see him run all over Varitek and the Boston pitching staff.

Brett Butler’s career OBP is .377.  Vince Coleman’s is .324.  That’s two very different players by my estimation.  If Gardner can manage .350, he’s a huge upgrade over Melky.  Also, if you think speed has a negligible influence on the game, just look at yesterday’s contest with the Mets.  Molina started even though Moeller had 3HRs of Perez because the Yanks were worried about Reyes and Co.

I hate to say this but...I feel like this is another attempt to catch up to boston by in effect branding this kid as “our jacoby ellsbury” How does gardners minor league stats compare to ellsburys? What about defense?

How does gardners minor league stats compare to ellsburys? What about defense?

Not as good on either count.

Who besides you has compared Gardner to Ellsbury?

Gardner doesn’t have to be the second coming of Joe DiMaggio.  He just needs to play a good, rangy CF and get on base more often than Melky.  No one here expects him to be a linchpin of team for the next decade.

Brett Butler’s career OBP is .377.  Vince Coleman’s is .324.  That’s two very different players by my estimation.

If by different you mean one got on base more than the other, then yes.  But both had games centered around their speed.  You didn’t put Butler or Coleman into the lineup to hit homers.  You put them in to run.  Butler was better at getting on, but Coleman was a better base-stealer.

I also stated Gardner could be effective, as long as he gets on base.  The mental effect of having a fast base-stealing threat on base over a “baseclogger” is something that isn’t easy to measure using stats, but I’m sure most pitchers can tell you that it is there.  In fact, I’d think this effect would be exaggerated today because stealing bases has declined.

My question really is, how long would Gardner have to be up before one gets a better measurement of his true ML talent than his MiL data provides?  And enough to separate him statistically from Melky?

Yup, don’t really get your point - if he’s called up and told he’s here until Matsui is back or Damon checks out ok or whatever, then there’s no 0fer issue.

How could you guys have watched the games on Friday and not mention Luis Castillo as a classic no power, high OBP guy?

Ellsbury keeps falling and falling btw. It’s a nice little sub-plot to the grander plot of “The Sox can do no F’in wrong when developing young players”.

<i>Ellsbury keeps falling and falling btw. It’s a nice little sub-plot to the grander plot of “The Sox can do no F’in wrong when developing young players”.</I.

I think Craig Hansen was the first bloom off that Brian Rose.

Sorry...I guess I should make it a bit more obvious next time.

It *was* obvious with the last sentence.  I didn’t take you for a Cashman hater, but we get plenty of that here so you could have been serious.  With the last sentence, you were either being sarcastic, or insance.  I gave you the benefit of the doubt…

My question really is, how long would Gardner have to be up before one gets a better measurement of his true ML talent than his MiL data provides?  And enough to separate him statistically from Melky?

I think if you wanted to get a good *statistical* measurement, he’d have to be up for at least a half-season.  That would be enough at least to be confident (as confident as you can be with prospects) of what he could do next year.  But as SG said, we could use some observations to help determine what he can/can’t do.

or insance

or insane.  Maybe I should look in the mirror?

On the other hand, Brett Butler had very little power but a consistently high OBP...

I assume that this was in response to me.  In which case, please note that I was responding to this:

his .412 obp is what I’m looking for

and only talking about his first few weeks in the majors.  I’m not trying to predict his career numbers.

Brett Butler posted a .310 OBP in 413 PAs over his first two major league seasons.  He didn’t put up a .400 (.399, actually) until he was 30 and had long since proven that he could hit his way on at a decent enough clip.

My question really is, how long would Gardner have to be up before one gets a better measurement of his true ML talent than his MiL data provides?  And enough to separate him statistically from Melky?

Honestly, a couple of years.

Having watched Luis Castillo over the past four games, I have no idea why that guy has a high OBP.  He can’t hit worth a lick and the worst he can do is bang a single.  It absolutely drove me insane when he drew walks against Yankee pitching.  I would lob the ball underhanded to him on a three ball count.

Lineup via Pete:

Gardner LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi 1B
Posada DH
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Molina C

Let’s hope this is just a day off for Damon.

Let the Brett Gardner era begin!

Per Abraham:

Gardner LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi 1B
Posada DH
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Molina C
Mussina RHP

This lineup leads me to believe that Damon’s foot is bothering him more than they’re letting on.

Damnit it yankz

To further clarify (and perhaps simplify) my point about Gardner, I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect anything close to a .400 OBP out of the gate.  I also think it would be foolish to write him off if he were to struggle for a month or two.

I also think it would be foolish to write him off if he were to struggle for a month or two.

That hasn’t stopped many, including some folks here, from doing so…

To further clarify (and perhaps simplify) my point about Gardner, I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect anything close to a .400 OBP out of the gate.

Well, I wouldn’t be shocked if he went 2-5 tonight.

(That’s the only “smiley” I’m remotely comfortable using, but I had to let you know I was messing around)

I like that he’s starting in LF. CF in the Majors, especially Yankee Stadium, is an awful difficult position to play. LF will let him get his feet wet defensively in the bigs without giving him too much responsibility.

I really hope Damon isn’t going to have to be DLed too.

This lineup leads me to believe that Damon’s foot is bothering him more than they’re letting on.

Hope it’s not plantar fasciitis.  That’s what I think of when I hear about injuries like this.

You snooze you lose, Bub.

Didn’t Damon make a great catch recently? How bad could it be?

Damon’s problem is with his arch.  To a certain extent, I would prefer the Yanks DL him and let him come back at 100% rather than have him at 70% for the next three months.

Yeah, Damon at 70% isn’t very good.

Plantar Fasciitis is painful, but it actually gets better with movement.  It’s basically caused by the tightening of the leg and foot muscles (hamstring, calf, etc) which puts strain on the plantar fascia - the tendon on the bottom of the foot. 

You wake up in the morning and it hurts like hell, but the more you walk on it the more it loosens up and feels better.  Obviously, this doesn’t allow time for it to heal as rest would. Maybe he can play with it but it would seem the All-Star break would be a good time to DL him if necessary.

I think it was worse with Giambi because he was fat and his body was ravaged by steroids.  He was actually on the DL because he tore the tendon, not specifically because of plantar fasciitis.

I am not a doctor so don’t hold me to any of that.

Yeah, didn’t Pujols play through a plantar fasciitis injury a year or two ago?

You can’t expect mere humans to follow in the footsteps of Albert Pujols.

(Written unironically.)

Don’t you mean, no pun intended?

I indeed meant both but I try to avoid the “no pun intended” flags.  I admit to the occasional “ahem.”

"Galicia”

Priceless story, thanks.

Ellsbury currently has an OPS+ of 94. The HoF must wait.

That can’t be right.  I heard he was already better than Grady Sizemore.