Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t really feel a pressing need to ‘blame’ anyone.  I really don’t think anyone predicted that Abreu would struggle, Cano would regress, and Damon and Giambi would be nonfactors due to injury.  When half your starting lineup is ineffective because of bad luck (injuries) or bad performance and nobody saw it coming, what are you supposed to do?  What GM would have been able to foresee and overcome that?

I’m still willing to give them until it’s 10 out in the wild card.

I hope that does not occur.

I wouldn’t put the Clemens signing on Ca$hman. That is pure George right there.

I disagree, Don. I think the Johnson trade was designed to

A. Get some young pitching

and

B. Take Johnson’s salary off so that they could sign Clemens.

Clemens fits perfectly into Cashman’s vision of the team (the vision that included them being an actual good team), which is to commit money to veterans for short term contracts to hold the team over until the young players are ready.

I think the Clemens signing was reactionary.  You may have been able to predict that Pavano would get hurt, and also that Igawa would (at the very least) have trouble adjusting.  But also having Rasner and Karstens and Hughes and Ohlendorf and Sanchez (did I miss anyone?) ALL get hurt in the first 6 weeks, left the Yankees out of pitchers.  With Moose also coming back from an injury and not yet effective, the Yankees needed a top-of-the-line starter.  The only one that wouldn’t cost a lot of money AND players was Clemens.

Oh, and noMaas has six Torre losses for the year now.  If the Yankees were 42-32 right now - with all the injuries - I think most people would be pretty happy.

The thing about the “Torre losses” NoMaas assigns is that maybe - MAYBE - half of them would actually have been wins if Torre had done what he “should” have done.  I don’t like his bullpen management much (exception being the “throw-day reliever” thing) either, but fact is the Yanks would have lost some of those games anyway.  So maybe it’s a 2-3 game swing.

Anyway, I’m waiting anxiously for the return of Hughes.  And I’ll get excited whenever Wang pitches.  If they make a run, fine.  If they don’t, so be it… I just hope they don’t make a panic trade.

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t really feel a pressing need to ‘blame’ anyone.

I’m on board with this sentiment. In the pre-season, everybody in all media outlets had the Yankees pegged to score close to 1000 runs this season. That was even with Minky slotted in as the everyday first baseman and knowing that Cairo, Melky and Nieves were going to be coming off the bench. I’ve been critical of the manager for about two years now, so it comes as no surprise that given better options, Torre will always go with “Torre’s Guys” in high leverage situations until the bitter end. Bad luck, bad performance from unexpected places and bad injuries has neutered this team, bring up the kids, bench the vets who aren’t producing and play out the string. The biggest question the rest of the year is does Hughes rejoin the big league team or go back to the minors after coming off the injured list.

I just hope they don’t make a panic trade.

Amen to that. If it becomes increasingly clear towards the deadline that the postseason is an astronomical longshot, I hope Cashman doesn’t go unloading prospects for hitters, unless one of them is Texiera and he agrees to a long term deal. A firesale is probably unreasonable because they have only a few tradeable commodities/tradeable contracts, but don’t go rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking HMS Torre.

As for Hughes, after his rehab starts, I’d let him get some ML innings under his belt. He’s gonna be a big part of the rotation next year (a #2 if he had more of Torre’s sought after veteranness), so it could be a good learning experience. Actually, I’d say the same thing with Joba. Let him work a late start or two.

i don’t know, this seems a little disingenuous to me.

Cashman doesn’t really know any more than we do about the future before the season starts.

what do we do at this site?  run projections based on historical performance (weighted towards the recent) and estimated playing time.  all of the projections before the season said the Yankees were the best team in baseball.  if that was what the models told the very smart people who do this site, then how can we hold Cashman to a higher standard than that?  you can’t say in one sentence that you though the Sheffield trade was the right move at the time and then blame Cashman in the next sentence.  because THAT trade was the season.  Bobby Abreu has been the biggest problem facing this team along with Robinson Cano.  the difference between their performances and their projected performances are the #1 reason for this mess.  and if no one here predicted the two of them dropping off a cliff, why should we expect Cashman to?

has this been Cashman’s finest moment? nope.  there is something very wrong with this team.  he definitely deserves blame.  he deserves criticism for Igawa and the bench.  i’m hesitant to blame him for the bullpen b/c it’s hard to separate how much of the problems are from the insane overuse b/c of the all the injuries to starters early on.

here is the team Cashman put on the field (career/2006/2007 OPS+/ERA+):

Damon (103/120/90)
Jeter (124/138/144)
Abreu (135/129/93)
A-Rod   (147/140/199)
Giambi (149/154/120)
Posada (123/127/152)
Matsui (125/133/117)
Cano   (111/132/91)
Phelps/Mientkiewicz (108 vs. LHP/99 vs. RHP)

Pettitte (120/108/132)
Mussina (124/125/85)
Wang   (118/121/121)
Igawa (NA/NA/60)
Pavano/Rasner/Karstens/Hughes/etc.
Rivera (195/243/101)
Farnsworth (99/100/85)
Proctor (103/125/122)
Bruney (102/503/216)
Myers (114/136/156)
Vizcaino (100/133/80)

so, cashman basically put a starting roster consisting entirely of players who were well above league average last year and could reasonably be projected to continue to be so.  the bench was a weakness and the team was generally older and could be vulnerable to injuries.  but that is not something you can fix in one off-season.  still, this looked like a VERY strong team at the beginning of the year, and while i am as frustrated as anyone, it’s almost as if people are forgetting that.

am i satisfied with the direction of this season?  nope.  has Cashman made mistakes?  absolutely.  would i give him a little more rope to turn it around?  yes.  b/c like him or not, Cashman is the BEST possible guy to not make panic moves and sacrifice the future for more crappy band-aids.

if they miss the playoffs this year, i will take my lumps and move on.  Jermaine Dye or Paul Konerko ain’t going to fix this team.

I have no problem with the Sheffield trade, even in hindsight.  Let’s not forget that the Yankees would have had to extend Sheffield for another two years to keep him (relatively) happy.

I didn’t like the Johnson trade at the time and I continue to dislike it.  I don’t see anything in Ohlendorf, Jackson, or Gonzalez that makes me think they’ll be anything more than fungible, and Vizcaino is a mediocre reliever at best right now.

I blame Cashman for a weak bench primarily.  You can’t sit on your starting nine and throw dreck like Wil Nieves at backup catcher.  While drafting Josh Phelps seemed smart, it became apparent right away that Joe Torre had no use for him after spring training.  I like Miguel Cairo if his role is to play late inning defense and to spot Cano against some lefties on occasion. Cairo as a starting first baseman is sheer lunacy.

All that being said, in the end, yup is 100% right.  The reason this season is going down the toilet is that several key players aren’t meeting their projections.  That’s all it comes down to, and there’s no model to have known that would be the case.  I probably shouldn’t post right after a tough loss because I get more emotional and less analytical. 

I’d disagree with the idea that Cashman is the BEST possible guy to build for the future because I think his talent evaluation is not that great when it comes to pitching, especially.  The Mike Lowell trade comes to mind, as do the Pavano signing, the Jeff Weaver trade, the Igawa signing, all moves which Cashman was the chief architect behind.  However, hopefully he can keep the farm intact and not try to fix the unfixable.

And who knows, maybe Cano will hit like he did after returning from his hammy injury last year for the rest of the season.

Well said, yup.

As far as Cashman making panic moves, if he was ever going to do that he would have done it in 2005 - the final year of his contract with the Yanks battling the Sox and Indians for the division or WC, with no guarantee of even making the playoffs. He held onto the best prospects then, and I’m sure he’ll do that now, even with a deeper farm system. I really don’t think he worries too much about job security. In fact if he is fired, there would be a lot of other GMs that would start worrying about being replaced in their jobs.

“I’d disagree with the idea that Cashman is the BEST possible guy to build for the future because I think his talent evaluation is not that great when it comes to pitching, especially.”

I think he probably undervalues control a little too much. Kevin Towers has said he looks at K/BB rates when he acquires guys, especially bullpen guys. Based on his acquisitions, Cashman seems to look at velocity and K’s, but doesn’t seem to pay too much attention to BBs.

I’d disagree with the idea that Cashman is the BEST possible guy to build for the future because I think his talent evaluation is not that great when it comes to pitching, especially

I’d agree with yup that Cashman is the best possible guy to build for the future.  Not because I believe that Cashman is the best GM in baseball - I’m not going to get into ranking but he’s in the top 10 if not the top 5 - but because he is the best the Yankees could get.  They’re not going to get Billy Beane for example.  And if Cashman is fired, chances are we’ll see a Steinbrenner favorite like Billy Connors.

And, too, you can’t lay everything at Cashman’s feet about evaluating talent.  Cashman has a team of people giving him advice on players.  True, Cashman needs to make the final decision.  But he needs to trust his people to give him good advice, and make a decision based on that.  Now if he continually gets bad advice from certain people and stays loyal to a fault, he has no one to blame but himself.  But I certainly don’t know enough about who he has gotten advice from on every trade/signing he has made.

“I just don’t think this is that good of a team, and the fault for that has to go to Brian Cashman.”

vs.

“This team still has the talent to make a run, but the clock’s running out on them”

So they have the talent, but aren’t that good?  what are they lacking, heart?

So they have the talent, but aren’t that good?  what are they lacking, heart?

I guess you can pick apart what I wrote right after a tough loss if you want to be pedantic, but I think a team can be talented and still not be good.  It all depends on if you are living up to that talent, and if you are deploying the pieces you have in the right manner.

Case in point, Cano and Abreu are talented, but right now they’re not good. Or, using Proctor instead of Rivera last night in the highest possible leverage situation.

I won’t make any judgements on whether or not they have heart, because I don’t think we can really say that.  I don’t think there’s a lack of effort here, just a lack of results.

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t really feel a pressing need to ‘blame’ anyone.  I really don’t think anyone predicted that Abreu would struggle, Cano would regress, and Damon and Giambi would be nonfactors due to injury.  When half your starting lineup is ineffective because of bad luck (injuries) or bad performance and nobody saw it coming, what are you supposed to do?  What GM would have been able to foresee and overcome that?

Injuries and poor performance become more prevalent as players age, even good ones.  When you have a roster full of veterans, the chances of breakdown, whether physical (injuries) or mental, start to add up.  When you have a team like the Tigers, who have a good mix of young players and veterans, you can withstand the loss of a Kenny Rogers in the rotation or a Sheffield in the lineup.  The Yanks can withstand one loss, but not two or more.  Why?  They don’t have the bench or the farm system (yet) to replace these veterans.  And the chances of withstanding more than one loss are greater because outside of Cano and Melky, they’re old.

Since 2000, the Yanks have plugged in veterans to supplement their homegrown core (Jeter, Posada, Williams, Andy, Mo).  They have only went to the farm when their free agent signees have flopped.  They did this because they believed they still had a shot at winning it all.  No rebuilding needed.

In essence, the Yanks have been gambling against Father Time these past few years and have either pushed or just lost.  This year, FT is whipping us good.  It was bound to happen. 

Who to blame?  Cashman gets some of the blame, but I wonder how much autonomy he enjoys in the front office.  I have a hard time believing that Steinbrenner has chilled out and let Brian run the show.  Cashman also has put himself (or George put him ) in a tough position: rebuilding the farm system while trying to win the World Series.  I admire him for trying, but at this point, he needs to pick a path and stick with it.  I’d vote for the former.

Frankly, I don’t see this getting any better until Steinbrenner is gone.  I think Cashman will do good things with this team when he doesn’t get impossible pressure from above.  As much as Steinbrenner wants, you can’t win all the time.  You need to reshuffle and rebuild from time to time.  That time is now.  However, Steinbrenner can’t, or won’t, allow this to happen.

Not because I believe that Cashman is the best GM in baseball - I’m not going to get into ranking but he’s in the top 10 if not the top 5 - but because he is the best the Yankees could get.  They’re not going to get Billy Beane for example.  And if Cashman is fired, chances are we’ll see a Steinbrenner favorite like Billy Connors.

this is what i meant.  i don’t mean that Cashman is the best possible guy IN BASEBALL to build for the future, i.e. compared to Terry Ryan or Beane or Sheurholz….i mean that were Cashman to be fired, i think his most likely successor would have a TON of pressure to mortgage the future for the immediate and would not have the same fortitude Cashman HAS demonstrated to resist that.

The Mike Lowell trade comes to mind, as do the Pavano signing, the Jeff Weaver trade, the Igawa signing, all moves which Cashman was the chief architect behind.

in retrospect, i would STILL trade Ted Lilly for Jeff Weaver 99 out of 100 times with all the information available at that time.  Weaver was the BLUEPRINT of a pitcher you want to acquire: he was 25, had great “stuff” and results, he was improving, and he was signed to a very reasonable contract. 

age IP ERA+
22 164 89
23 200 111
24 229 109
25 122 132

trading for a 25 year old stud in 2002 when they had two 39 year old pitchers in the rotation was a great idea.

I wasn’t a big Weaver fan, because his K rate was not that special.

Then again, I loved Vazquez, and that didn’t work out much better.

I have no problem with the Sheffield trade, even in hindsight.  Let’s not forget that the Yankees would have had to extend Sheffield for another two years to keep him (relatively) happy.

I didn’t like the Johnson trade at the time and I continue to dislike it.  I don’t see anything in Ohlendorf, Jackson, or Gonzalez that makes me think they’ll be anything more than fungible, and Vizcaino is a mediocre reliever at best right now.

agreed that the return on RJ wasn’t very much, but right now, and i can’t believe that i am saying this about the 2007 Yankees:  Pitching is not really the problem and hasn’t been for a while.

the problem is the offense.  and that is why i am hesitant to blame Cashman b/c raise your hand if you thought before the season that the 2007 Yankees would struggle to score runs.

here is the team ERA by month:
April/Mar. 5.02
May 4.28
June 3.91

the team era was 4.43 last season.

the problem is that they are getting NOTHING from 4 key members of their lineup this year: Giambi, Abreu, Cano, and Damon.

if you take away A-Rod, the entire rest of the yankees’ roster might not hit 100 HRs this year.

think about that.  right now, non-ARod hitters have 50 HRs and we are almost halfway through the season without Giambi coming back.  that’s pathetic and IMO it is the #1 problem with this team.

and i can’t explain it.

trading for a 25 year old stud in 2002 when they had two 39 year old pitchers in the rotation was a great idea.

That and the fact that - if memory serves which it doesn’t always - Torre seemed to have soured on Lilly.  It seems to me that if Lilly got into the slightest jam - regardless of the score or the inning - Torre would take him out.  Why hold onto a player your manager won’t use?  Sure, you could argue they gave up too much for Weaver.  But even then I think that may be more in hindsight.

and i can’t explain it

One of the reasons is that the player on their team with the least power - well, other than maybe Nieves - has been the primary starter at 1B for the last several weeks.  True Phelps or Phillips aren’t going to be winning any Silver Sluggers, but if one of your problems is lack of HR power, you’d want to get guys with that ability playing more, no?

Regarding K/BB rates - Pete Abraham has some interesting numbers over on his blog for Farnsworth and Proctor. Last year, both had good ratios but are heading in the wrong direction this year on both counts - more BBs fewer Ks. Perhaps that could have been predicted based on their (over)use of a year ago, but it’s also likely that it’s another one of those things that any reasonable model couldn’t have predicted.

Let’s face it, sometimes a decent team seems to have almost everything go wrong. It happens in all sports. The opposite also happens. Every retrospective look at the 2005 White Sox that I’ve read seems to come to the same conclusion - they were a good team for which everything seemed to go right. Since then, even with basically the same players, they’ve been mediocre.

Looking back over the last 10-12 years, you could probably find at least 2-3 years where every team has played below their pre-season expectations. The Yankees, at least in the regular season, have always in the end lived up to what we thought they would be, at least IMO. An exception could the 2000 season, but the post season certainly made up for that.

In essence, the Yanks have been gambling against Father Time these past few years and have either pushed or just lost.  This year, FT is whipping us good.  It was bound to happen.

This is so on the mark. The front office have tried to tread water and gamble on less-financially affluent team’s onerous contracts and declining vets with some history of success to supplement the core group of players for another run at the championship, the bloat on the roster is now almost uncontrollable. As to Cashman’s history, the only really player player he’s acquired is Igawa. All other flops were considered great moves at the time or were moves made with sound baseball strategy behind them. Contreras was signed to be kept from the Bosox, Javy Vasquez, Weaver and Pavano were all reasonably young pitchers with a lot of upside and a brief history of success. Cashman isn’t the best GM in the game, but he at least has a plan that takes into account the short and long term goals of this team. I’m comfortable with his stewardship going forward. As for the bench, how much input does Torre have on how its assembled? It seems to me, Torre’s been obsessive in making sure that the backups had a good defensive reputation. Given the choice between Will Nieves and Javy Lopez, how often would Torre select Nieves to be his backup because he’s a reputed plus defender? But this could just be prejudice against the manager given his recent performance.

I agree that age is a factor, but Abreu and Damon are 33.  While that may not be their prime, who becomes brittle and/or falls off a performance cliff at age 33?  It’s not likely to happen, and it’s nothing besides bad luck when it does.  The only “we should have figured something like this would happen” injury is Giambi, who is 35 and usually ends up dinged every season anyway.

And I think our depth was actually pretty good at the beginning of the season.  Melky was ready to fill in for any of the outfielders, and we had Karstens, Rasner, and even Hughes to step in for any pitching issues.  Well, Melky has stepped in and performed decently.  Those three pitchers are all out with injuries.  I don’t think even vilify Cashman for the Igawa deal, because even if Igawa doesn’t work out, he’ll probably be very attractive to some NL team (his salary is only $5MM/year) and he’ll be easy to dump for some prospects.

Imagine if the Red Sox lost Ortiz and Manny was having an Abreu-esque year.  They would be *cooked.*  The fact that the Yankees are still even remotely anywhere near playoffs discussions is a reason to commend Cashman, not blame him.

SG,

It seems to me that you have cornered the posting duties for the bad times on this site. Thanks (to you and others as well) for keeping up the great work regardless of the condition of the team.

In any case, this team cannot be turned around and restocked until all the bad contracts expire. Here is what I see for this team: it needs to find new addresses for Abreu, Damon and Giambi (the NTC would preclude that possibility, so wait until the contract expires), make Matsui the DH, Melky the CF, Jeter the LF or RF, and wait for Tabata to develop for the other corner position, and maybe fill in the interim with a guy like Jermaine Dye who might sign a reasonable two year contract.

Posada might move to first, and they need to keep A-Rod at any cost. They would need to find a SS, a good defensive one with reasonably good OBP type (is there anybody like that to be found?).

Hopefully, Pettitte sticks around next year, and Chamberlain makes the team. Wang and Hughes should be there, health permitting, and it should be Mussina’s swansong season. Clippard should be able to perform as a reasonable number 5 after that.

The bullpen needs to be developed internally. No need for the Myers, Vizcaino, Farnsworth, Villones of the world. Allow Britton and Henn to assume their roles with Proctor, Bruney and Rivera, and give chances to the likes of Alan Hornes and Humberto Sanchezs to make the bullpen.

That still leaves the catcher position to be filled, and a bench to be constructed so that it doesn’t look like the Ruben Sierra era was golden. Guess Bernie still had some value.

Oh, and please let Joe Torre walk away after this season. If there needs to be a parade in his honor, so be it. But enough with the madness of Miguel Cairo at first base already. If Cashman is incapable of making that decision, let go of him as well.

there is no way torre is back next season unless they win the WC and make it to the WS. 

the only reason he was back this year is because he was owed $7M and i think Cashman preferred Torre to Piniella, George’s choice.

Girardi or Mattingly will be the manager next year.  hopefully Girardi.

SG- you are exactly right. It baffled me completely that Farnsworth gets the ball in the 8th. Having escaped barely giving up runs, I assumed it was a given that he’d bring in Mo. But no, he goes and manages this game as though we were on a winning streak. Last night was an opportunity to break a tough skid and as far as I can tell Joe did nothing, nothing to give his team a chance to do that. To leave Mo in the pen made no sense at all.

As to all the other speculation, I don’t know. I disagree with those who only give Cashman credit for things and then insulate him from blame on the loser trades. I think his performance overall is mostly good because of his fairly recent committment to hold on to kids. It took Cano and Wang to finally prove they can help. Beyond that it makes no difference if all experts at the time were high on Vazquez or Weaver. Otherwise George could run the team by surveys. The bottomline is that they were washouts as Yankees. Lilly was very tough on the Red Sox both as a Yankee (which was known at the time of deal) and since as a Jay. He was only a year or two older and a lefty. There was great interest this winter in re-acquiring him but his contract and the tax issue came into play. The first base hole is a hole today because we traded an up and comer -Nick Johnson along with a future starting corner outfielder Juan Rivera, both AAA .300 hitters. Vazquez will best remembered as a Yankee for turning his head several times toward the right field stands in October of 2004.  I hold Cashman accountable for those deals. He’s got to take the good with the bad, but he may remain as the best option available. Steinbrenner hasn’t been that much a force the past couple of years and I truly believe Cash has had a much more free hand in things.

I have high regard for Cashman, but I think Abreu’s performance was foreseeable. He’s lost about 100 OPS points off his Philly performance in 2006, which arguably reflects the change in leagues. His uptick with the Yanks notwithstanding, Abreu has gone back to being the guy that got run out of Philly. Surely that was a warning. But otherwise I think Cashman has done what he should have, and things simply haven’t panned out.

The Clemens signing is meaningless, right? I mean, it has no downside, since it’s all 2007 money that wasn’t getting spent. There’ll be some luxury tax repercussions, but that’s it. To me, the Pavano signing is worse because it forced the Yankees to wait around for three years rather than pursuing other pitchers. [And I know, the Sox desperately wanted Pavano. There’s a lotta luck involved in being a GM.] By contrast, Clemens’ signing doesn’t prevent them from adding anyone with the ability to make long-term contributions. They could get Buehrle now (not likely, I know, but as an example) and just carry an extra starter before making him their #3 next year.

“His uptick with the Yanks notwithstanding, Abreu has gone back to being the guy that got run out of Philly.”

He’s hitting much worse now then he did in Philly last year, way more then I think you can write off to simply switching leagues.

I think Abreu’s performance was foreseeable. He’s lost about 100 OPS points off his Philly performance in 2006, which arguably reflects the change in leagues. His uptick with the Yanks notwithstanding, Abreu has gone back to being the guy that got run out of Philly.

aren’t these sentences contradictory?  the change in leagues was not a problem during his “uptick”.  since when do we knock off 100 points of OPS for switching leagues?

his OPS+ for the last 5 years look like this:
134
149
123
129 (120 in Philly, 144 in NY)
93

how was that 93 foreseeable?

no, what you could say was “foreseeable” would be an OPS+ around 120, or the numbers he had that got him run out of Philadelphia.  that would make sense.

Re: the loss of Giambi - Giambi’s power is sorely missed, no? The idea of the Yankees having a plus offense is partially based on a lot of power from A-Rod, a healthy dose from Giambi, and then some measure of power from Posada, Matsui, Abreu, Damon, Cano and Jeter.  Drop Giambi from the equation and add the subpar power numbers from most of the above and you’ve got a team that struggles to put up runs.

his raw OPS in Philly that were “bad”: .427/.434

his park adjusted league average OBP/SLG were .347/.448.

this year, they are .332/.413. 

that would mean an AL/YS adjustment of his 2006 philly numbers would yield an OPS of .809 this year.  he is at .713.

and you can’t ignore the second half of 2006 b/c it DID happen.

In the immortal words of the great Clemenza, “This has gotta happen every five years, ten years it gets rid of the bad blood.”
Cashman told the Family two years ago that he had to rebuild the team or they would be in last place when they moved into the new Stadium. It is nearly impossible to rebuild and win at the same time so please stop the micro-management of every game and trade. Getting rid of old players in the short term is a tactic. Signing Clemens is brand protection while the young pitchers get experience. Enjoy the season and don’t get crazy about the big money demands of aging stars. Some will get paid and some will leave. The last time the Yanks rebuilt GS was suspended. It seems now that he has lost his fastball so the process has begun again. Be patient!

“Managing to a save situation when the season is slipping away is the height of absurdity”

Rivera will pitch tonight with the Yankees either up by 5 or down by 5 because he “needs the work.”

Re: the loss of Giambi - Giambi’s power is sorely missed, no? The idea of the Yankees having a plus offense is partially based on a lot of power from A-Rod, a healthy dose from Giambi, and then some measure of power from Posada, Matsui, Abreu, Damon, Cano and Jeter.

yes.  absolutely.  but the season is almost half over and none of those 6 guys even have 10 HRs.  Cano has THREE HRs!?  Jeter only has 5.  Damon has 5. Abreu has 4. 

no one was expecting any of those guys to hit 30 HRs, but i don’t think it was unreasonable to expect 60-70 HRs from those 4 guys.  but those 4 guys are on pace to hit like 35 HRs.

It is nearly impossible to rebuild and win at the same time so please stop the micro-management of every game and trade

what are we supposed to do, work?

Is it just me, or is all the money at the Yankees’ disposal a curse as much as an asset?

It seems as if the Yanks feel the need to spend it and will overlook an undervalued or better player and go after the more expensive, more well-known player.

Would the Yankees be in a better position if Steinbrenner enforced a team salary cap?

“but the season is almost half over and none of those 6 guys even have 10 HRs.  Cano has THREE HRs!?  Jeter only has 5.  Damon has 5. Abreu has 4.”

Yeah, Damon morphing from a 24 HR guy to a 10 HR guy is huge. I really though Cano would be up around 20 or so HRs for this year. Jeter and Abreu, I didn’t expect much from, but I also though Phelps would give the Yanks 15-20. Doubles are nice, but they’ve stranded enough leadoff doubles this year that it’s pretty obvious that the HR is sorely needed for this team.

I think Ca$hman takes advice from others poorly. It has been disseminated that Gene Michael strongly advised Ca$hman to bring Phil Hughes up last season. Michael’s told Ca$hman that Hughes was ready for the big show but it never happened. The ALDS might well have been different with Hughes there.

joeln—Please, not Nick Johnson, Mr. Injury himself? That is why he was traded. That and George’s obsession with Giambi.

“It seems as if the Yanks feel the need to spend it and will overlook an undervalued or better player and go after the more expensive, more well-known player. “

I think the Yanks have been most burned when looking skipping the name player. Vlad and Beltran were guys the Yanks should have gotten. It’s the middle of the pack signings that have burned them (Matsui, Pavano, Wright, now it looks like Damon and Abreu) not the big ticket guys. The Yanks should sign HOF talent players exclusively (guys like Jeter and A-rod sure, but also Vlad, and Beltran and Posada, guys who may not make the Hall, but at their best are playing at superstar levels), because they can afford to (and I think those guys age better anyway), when they try to acquire solid, mid tier guys, it blows up in their face.

Matsui has great value to the name brand in Japan. I was against re-signing him but the money aspect is/was too enticing to George. Bad OF and now his hitting has deteriorated.

Michael’s told Ca$hman that Hughes was ready for the big show but it never happened. The ALDS might well have been different with Hughes there.

Yeah, they would have lost the last two games 3-0 and 5-3 instead of 6-0 and 8-3, respectively.  Pitching wasn’t as much of an issue as a complete breakdown in hitting against the Tigers.  After the rainout of Game 2, the Yankee offense was already down in the Caribbean somewhere.  An extra arm was not going to make a difference in the series.

They didn’t sign Abreu, they traded for him.  While he sucks this year, he did help last year, all for the price of CJ Henry and Matt Smith, ie, nothing.

Beltran was a mistake, but from what I understand, they used that money for pitching.  While it didn’t turn out well, it does underscore the fact that I was trying to make before: having all the money to spend means they don’t have discipline, or a plan.

They sign or trade for whomever is big, then the next year or two revolves around fixing those trades or filling in the gaps.  They really couldn’t afford Beltran and fix their pitching, so they had to choose. 

If they Yankees had a better farm system, or at least a long-term plan, they might have seen that quandry coming and planned accordingly.

At least they are trying to get some homegrown pitching.  If the can get Hughes and Chamberlain in the rotation, along with Wang and Pettite, the can focus their free agent and trades on the position players.

You can’t build your whole team around free agent signings, unless money truly doesn’t matter.

I think Ca$hman takes advice from others poorly. It has been disseminated that Gene Michael strongly advised Ca$hman to bring Phil Hughes up last season

Michael was also the guy pushing Andy Phillips and Cashman obviously took his advice there.  Stick might not know everything either considering Phillips kindof blows.

Mike Piazza might have helped the Yankees, but it was nice to see George Steinbrenner let Brian Cashman do his job when agent Dan Lozano called.

Gene Michael is back in vogue with Cashman’s newfound power, and it was Michael who spearheaded the anti-Piazza vote. Michael believes Andy Phillips could be like Kevin Millar was for the Red Sox (in his good years), which means 20 homers and 80 RBIs.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/newsday_heyman8/

The Yanks should sign HOF talent players exclusively (guys like Jeter and A-rod sure, but also Vlad, and Beltran and Posada, guys who may not make the Hall, but at their best are playing at superstar levels), because they can afford to (and I think those guys age better anyway), when they try to acquire solid, mid tier guys, it blows up in their face.

It’s hard to find those HOF or near-HOF guys and when you do find them, it costs a pretty penny to sign.  More teams are locking up their really good players early and longer, meaning they won’t hit free agency until they are at or just past their peak.

The problem comes when you try to stock up on superstars.  Yanks sign Giambi and Mussina, top free agents of their year and near-HOF guys, but then don’t have the money to sign guys like Beltran.

Sometimes, mid-tier guys are all they have to choose from - but like I said before, when you don’t have a farm system or a plan, you have to sign them because you have no other option.

Also, as a few other posts show, you still have Big George or his boys pressuring Cashman.  I hope that has stopped, but I don’t think so.  You should only have one captain of the ship - and that’s Cashman.  He can’t do his job or execute his plan when people are tugging on his shoulder, telling him to sign this guy or trade that guy.

Again, the Yanks need to get back to basics: build a good young nucleus through the farm system.  Use free agency judiciously to only fill holes when the farm or trades can’t do it for them.

Going out and signing every HOF or near-HOF that comes along only ends up in failure.

“They didn’t sign Abreu, they traded for him.  While he sucks this year, he did help last year, all for the price of CJ Henry and Matt Smith, ie, nothing.”

I’m not bagging on the trade. But look at BBref’s comps for Abreu. It’s loaded with very good players who fell of in their early to mid 30s. I need to reevaluate my point, because it’s not simply production (I’m thinking production + certain tools, like bat speed and athleticism (also, Abreu is one of the least athletic fast people I have ever seen, could he be any stiffer?)).

“You can’t build your whole team around free agent signings, unless money truly doesn’t matter. “

Well, there’s also the issue of there just not being that many good free agent hitters around anymore.

“Cashman polled 20 Yankees scouts, and from what I hear, the vote was 17-3 against.”

In the Bpro chat the other day, it turns out the scout that signed Edwar Ramirez out of the independent leagues was stolen by the Braves recently. Why do the Yanks let their good scouts get stolen?

“Yanks sign Giambi and Mussina, top free agents of their year and near-HOF guys, but then don’t have the money to sign guys like Beltran.”

No, they didn’t have that money because of Wright and Pavano. They also got good value out of Moose (during his original contract) and Giambi.

“Sometimes, mid-tier guys are all they have to choose from - but like I said before, when you don’t have a farm system or a plan, you have to sign them because you have no other option.”

I’m not saying that the Yanks should only sign HOFers and play them. I’m saying that when they are forced to the FA market, they should only buy top of the line players. You obviously need to develop young talent to fill in around the FAs, because a league average second year player is as value to a team as a superstar making 17 mil a year. The burns come when you sign the guys with an all-star appearance or two to multi year deals that end up being around 8-12 million a year, because those contracts are impossible to move and those players are more likely to fall off in their 30s, which is the age most FAs end up being.

In the Bpro chat the other day, it turns out the scout that signed Edwar Ramirez out of the independent leagues was stolen by the Braves recently. Why do the Yanks let their good scouts get stolen?

They might not have had a choice.  They can’t pay everyone top dollar, even the scouts.  There’s probably more to that scout leaving then we’ll know.

Problem with Steinbrenner is that he tries to win by accumulating big names and big talent, not by building the best franchise and team.  Steinbrenner and the Yankees remind me of our international basketball teams.  We assemble the biggest names and expect them to play and dominate like the 1992 Dream Team, only the experiment falls flat on its face.

Steinbrenner has to learn you can’t put together the best names and biggest talent and win.  Times have changed.  The smaller and mid-market teams are getting smarter with the way they develop, evaluate and hold on to their talent.  They are building strong teams and strong franchises, just like other countries are building strong basketball programs.

Yanks need to adapt.

If Michaels says Andy could be like Milar what does it say that Cairo is the everyday 1b?

I’m saying that when they are forced to the FA market, they should only buy top of the line players

Part of the problem is that when they are forced to the FA market, a lot of times those players aren’t available, or even if they are, they might not want to play in NY.  E.g. years ago when Griffey Jr. was still a top-flight player, he said he would NEVER play there.  Yeah, the Yankees may have been able to offer him enough money, but you couldn’t assume that.  And for the record I know they didn’t have a big need for Griffey back then but he’s the one that pops out at me.

Also of course those “top flight” players are often only available because they are entering or just in their 30’s, which leaves the team where they are now.

If Michaels says Andy could be like Milar what does it say that Cairo is the everyday 1b?

just to be clear, that article was from LAST offseason.

helps explain why Phillips was still the starting 1Bman in August.

“Part of the problem is that when they are forced to the FA market, a lot of times those players aren’t available, or even if they are, they might not want to play in NY.”

That’s a big problem, one that’s going to kick the Yanks in the ass this offseason. But when they are available, the Yanks can not afford to pass on them.

“Also of course those “top flight” players are often only available because they are entering or just in their 30’s, which leaves the team where they are now.”

The big time misses the Yanks have had in recent years are Beltran and Vlad. They were both 28 in their first year with their current clubs. Guys who are supremely talented come up at an early age, and become free agents at an early age. Those are the guys to sign.

“Steinbrenner has to learn you can’t put together the best names and biggest talent and win.”

yeah, but I think its a little late for the big G to learn anything of the sort.