Wow..I can’t believe it. The only good thing (for me) about the ALDS loss was that he was going to go. Now we are going to have that guy sleeping in the dugout for another year. Suboptimal decision.

I just hope that he staying would help to keep Mo and Posada.

Is this a painfully slow news week in the sporting world or what?

Maybe they should call Mo and Jorge’s agents before they finalize Joe’s deal, and tell them to put their money where their mouth is.

One of the positives in keeping Torre will be the continued presence of Bowa and Tony Peña - both of whom add a great deal to the team.  Moreover, it seems as if Guidry is going to give way either to Mazzone or Dave Eiland - either of whom will be an upgrade where it’s most necessary.

I just hope that he staying would help to keep Mo and Posada.

I’m frustrated with Torre’s tactics as much as anyone, but if his presence means a more likely chance to keep our studs then it’s worth it. 

NoMaas likes keeping track of the “Torre losses,” which are losses in their opinion that are directly responsible due to Torre’s bad management.  And even if you grant that Torre is directly responsible for 3-4 losses a year, the value of Posada and Mo over their potential replacements is worth it.

“NoMaas likes keeping track of the “Torre losses,” “

They should keep track of “Wins in spite of Torre”.

I am really angry that he is going to come back next year.

“And even if you grant that Torre is directly responsible for 3-4 losses a year”

In 2007 he was responsible for 8 losses. Good to loose the division.

Torre is only responsible for those losses, in effect, if another manager would have done things differently - which can’t necessarily be assumed.  After all, I can remember games Boston lost where Francona didn’t use Papelbon in a tie game in extra innings on the road.  Would Mattingly follow the same dictum?  If so, the Yanks would basically have a younger version of Torre - only with lesser skills in other areas.  I’m not trying to say Torre is a great manager, but the Nomaas habit of apportioning losses is not quite the fairest metric around.

Does that include the games that he lost indirectly by wasting pitchers in blowouts the night before?

From Pete Abraham:

The Yankees have scheduled a conference call with the media at 4 p.m.

i just threw on espn radio, and it sounded like kay said it was a done deal….they have yet to mention the years/money.

“torre has turned the offer down”

I really wish that press conference is for Torre to anounce his retirement as a Yankee manager. Is it impossible to come true?

conference call is going on now…general preamble.  now:  “we made an offer of 1 year deal w/ an option.  base salary of 5 million.  1 million bonus for alds, 1 million for alcs, 1 million for ws.  option would vest automatically if they made it to the world series.  2009 salary would be 8 million.  torre turned it down.  yankees are moving forward.

Well, I guess you could call that leaving on his own terms. What so many said they wanted for Torre…

nah, I don’t believe you kronic.

Wow.  Classy move all around.

This move seems a bit puzzling.  Torre clearly wanted to manage the Yanks, otherwise he would have announced as much after the season was over.  If he goes anywhere else, he won’t make even half as much salary-wise and won’t have anywhere near the level of talent.  If he felt the Yanks were not paying him the respect he deserves, why would he board a plane for Tampa?  In any event, I guess the Yanks are no longer boring this off-season.

Maybe he wanted more years.  Maybe he was insulted because he would be making less money.

I’ll say this: the Yanks front office handled this well.  They put Torre’s fate in Torre’s hands.  No one can blame Cashman or ownership later next year when fans and media invariably start bleating that Torre would be better than [insert new manager here].

Now onto finding a new manager…

Around the water cooler right now, coworkers are saying it was an insulting offer b/c it was only one year.

Sooooooooooooo….........

Girardi or the Hitman?

I vote Girardi.  It would kill me as a fan if Donnie struggles as manager of this team.

For some reason I feel this is a Andy Pettitte situation.  “We want you, but not really, but a lot of people will be angry if we don’t try to keep you, so please reject this enormous sum of money we’re offering you.”

Is it too much to assume that during two days of meetings the Yanks decided on their second choice candidate in case Torre turned their offer down?  If, in fact, that is the case, the Yanks should begin the process immediately.  Let the new manager, (i.e. either Girardi or Mattingly) have the maximum amount of time to put together a staff, reach out to the players etc.  That certainly seems to make the most sense rather than hemming and hawing for another week about who is going to take the reigns.

I’ll say this: the Yanks front office handled this well.  They put Torre’s fate in Torre’s hands.  No one can blame Cashman or ownership later next year when fans and media invariably start bleating that Torre would be better than [insert new manager here].”

Completely, completely disagree.  The Yankees offered their manager of the last dozen years a one year deal, pretty much unheard of for a veteran manager, with a paycut then go on to outline to offer to the media?  Low class treatment of a guy who never missed the f*cking playoffs.

I’m really shocked, the offer sounds fair doesn’t it? It’s a slight pay cut that can become a raise if the goals are reached.

I still wouldn’t be surprised if they work something out, but if not, I think it’s going to be Girardi over Mattingly.

Read into it what you will, Hank/Hal are handling the conference call with George nowhere to be found.

Good for Torre, don’t let the Yankees mess around with you.
Good for Cashman, for giving Torre a chance.
Good for the team, some fresh blood will help everyone.

I’ll take Girardi over Mattingly, I think. Experience has got to count for something.

I think the Yankee Front Office takes a big PR hit on this…..Especially in the press and on the streets on NYC…

so letting him go after his contract is up is insulting, AND offering him a one year deal that has the potential to vest is insulting.  so, whenever a manager is down to one year left on his contract, he should just get two more years to not be insulting?

is it even really a pay cut?  making the alds is almost a guaranteed vesting option.  and if it doesn’t vest, it’s b/c torre probably screwed up.

use the 5 million you are going to save on the new manager and add it to posada and mo’s contract.

Anyone else fear that they know Mattingly isn’t ready and Girardi won’t want to be a placeholder which could open the door for Bowa?  Am I now just expecting the worst at this point?

(Second worst I guess.  Larussa would be the worst.)

And I applaud Joe Torre for virtually telling Steinbrenner to stick it up your arse…..Long over due, I’m certain Yogi, Bucky, & Billy the Kid himself are all saying thank you # 6

I think Nate’s on to something.  This way Torre’s pride is saved and the organization doesn’t take as big a hit as they would have if they’d fired him.  The Yankees and Torre might have even joined together to craft a proposal designed to fail but that both sides could happily point to as reasonable—Yankees can say they offered to keep Torre as the highest paid manager in baseball and Torre can say that he felt like his contract situation would have been a distraction to the team going into next season.

If you’re a Torre fan (and I kind of am), the proposal doesn’t sound like one he should accept but if you were kind of ready to see him go, it sounds hollow to argue that an offer of over $5 million is “disrespect.”  (If he earned as much as the next highest paid manager for a guaranteed two-year deal, he still probably wouldn’t top the value of this offer for 1 year.)

People who hate the Yankees will spin this in the most negative way possible, but I think this was a fair way for this to go down. 

By putting the ball in Torre’s court, the Yanks let him go out on his own terms (and this will make for a much less awkward Joe Torre day at the new digs in 2010).

The problem with a 1 year deal is that it basically means Torre’s on the hook again for the entire season.  If they start out slow again, it’s “the Yankees may not renew his contract.”  If they get bounced early from the playoffs, it’s “his contract extension is in jeopardy.”  Any conflict with upper management and it’s “Joe, do you see yourself back with the Yankees next season?”

I could see why that would be very unappealing to Torre.  Then again, the FO probably anticipated this.  Make him a big offer in terms of $$$ to look good to the press, but only offer him 1 year so he turns it down.

Just hire Girardi and let’s get on to the real issue that’s going to impact the team next season, and that’s A-Rod.

The press conference gave away that they expected him to turn it down.  Francesa is all over it.

Completely, completely disagree.  The Yankees offered their manager of the last dozen years a one year deal, pretty much unheard of for a veteran manager, with a paycut then go on to outline to offer to the media?  Low class treatment of a guy who never missed the f*cking playoffs.

Yes.  How dare the Yankee front office insult Torre with a contract incentive.  I mean, aging players NEVER get incentives.  How dare they think of the organization needs before Torre’s needs.  How dare they think that an aging manager deserves a one year deal.

Low class?  It has nothing to do with class.

It has everything to do with business and what’s best for the Yankee organization.

“The press conference gave away that they expected him to turn it down”

Damn—exactly what they shoud NEVER admit in this kind of situation.

ok, i know i must be dreaming b/c i’m agreeing with 51% of the things that Kay is saying right now.  anyone ever listen to his radio show?  is he better than when he’s on tv?

It’s pretty sad, but I understand the position of both sides here.

Ah well…I hope this is enough for Mo and the rest.

Yes.  How dare the Yankee front office insult Torre with a contract incentive.  I mean, aging players NEVER get incentives.  How dare they think of the organization needs before Torre’s needs.  How dare they think that an aging manager deserves a one year deal.”

12 years in the playoffs in 12 years earns more than a lowball one year deal.

“Low class?  It has nothing to do with class.”

Even if you’re ok with the offer the way they outlined the details in the press conference was not even in the same ballpark (pun!) as classy.

“It has everything to do with business and what’s best for the Yankee organization.”

Which is fine, I disagree with the decision but that’s their call.  Regardless, they handled it terribly.

I think a lot of posturing is going on to appease the media & fan base. I would guess that Joe is still hot over the leaked press remarks during the playoffs and that as a backdrop wouldn’t have enhanced chances of agreement. Couple that with perception. Most impartial observers believe Torre did a heck of a recovery job to even make the playoffs. So Joe buying into that mindset hardly is ready for a single year proposal. He believes he did a wail of a job getting there coupled with the lifetime record of 12-12 postseason appearances. The Stein obviously comes to the table citing the early playoff exits in 3 straight and the loss to the sox in the 04 ALCS.  A one year performance based contract seems reasonable to the front office, though I really think they expected he might refuse it. They likely wanted a change all along, but felt a PR campaign was necessary to appear reasonable to the press and public.  As said earlier above, this smacks much similar to Andy Pettitte’s 2003 exodus. 
Problem now is what the players will do in response. Posada-might be open to playing under Don M. but would he want to work under his co-catcher Girardi?
Rivera-hard to say. I think A-Rod really likes Mattingly, so may help.
I feel sorry for Mattingly if he gets it and can’t measure up. He was so distressed with all the NY press BS late in his career. I can’t imagine him sitting through a bunch of losses and handling things as well as Torre. Then it will be doubly tough if they feel the need to replace him.
Girardi- would be the better choice for now. If he fails he certainly is more disposable to the NY fanbase. Who knows? He also may prove to be a pretty good manager.

this is a great example of the clustering affect.  the yankees happened to get lucky by keeping a 12 year streak of the playoffs (in theory they probably should have missed out once or twice), so people have to attach it to torre.

12 years in the playoffs in 12 years earns more than a lowball one year deal.

Again, how much of this was Torre’s doing and how much was the players’ and front office?

He’s not getting any younger.  And he’s not going to change his ways to improve the way he manages.  He manages the way he manages.

Yanks made him an acceptable offer and he turned it down.

I simply don’t understand some fans who get upset when players, or managers like Torre, are offered contracts that are supposedly “insulting.”

Most fans don’t have contracts worth millions per year.  Most fans’ jobs are at will and based on performance.

God forbid someone like Torre work under those same conditions.

“Most fans don’t have contracts worth millions per year.  Most fans’ jobs are at will and based on performance.

God forbid someone like Torre work under those same conditions. “

Perhaps Torre represents the aspirations of millions of Americans who long for the days when there was such a thing as ‘job security.’

Completely, completely disagree.  The Yankees offered their manager of the last dozen years a one year deal, pretty much unheard of for a veteran manager, with a paycut then go on to outline to offer to the media?

basically you believe Torre should have been able to manage as long as he wanted to.

the FO thinks otherwise.

thanks for the memories Joe.  it was a great run, but it’s been over for a while now.

don’t fear change.

Perhaps Torre represents the aspirations of millions of Americans who long for the days when there was such a thing as ‘job security.’

i am sure we can all empathize with the lack of job security of being asked to go from $7M to $5M with $3M in incentives.

it really is the plight of the common man personified.

If a CEO was given a 3 year contract paying him 100% more then other CEOs in his field and his stock price remained flat for 3 years and then after his contract expired they offered him a new contract where he only earned a minimum of 50% more then other CEOs everyone would applaud the return to sanity of the compensation board.  That offer was hardly an insult.

The Yankees offered their manager of the last dozen years a one year deal, pretty much unheard of for a veteran manager, with a paycut then go on to outline to offer to the media?  Low class treatment of a guy who never missed the f*cking playoffs.

This is a joke right?

So this is the New Regime of the NY Yankees,,,,Oh Boy…...For an Organization that pisses away millioms of dollars without even realizing it, offers their HOF Manager a one year incentive laced contract…Total BS…..I applaud Joe Torre for telling them fuck you….I do feel for Cashman, this isn’t his style….

Media spin is too much- WFAN: Yankees offered Torre $2.5M less than he made last year.  Really?  They also offered him $.5M more than he made this season if everyone’s expectations are met.  And what exactly does Joe Torre do better than anyone else that makes him worth more than twice as much?  And is this Joe’s job for life just because he has done what he is statistically supposed to do over a 162 game season, i.e make the playoffs with superior talent?  I’m not sure I buy into “Torre Losses” but I don’t think I buy into Torre magic either.  I simply don’t think any manager stands that far above any other.  I do not want to see LaRussa, though.

Both sides have their points in this. Maybe it will cool down and Torre will be offered another deal over the next few weeks.

But as long as it isn’t Girardi, who could not get along with the owner or GM in Florida. And who is a control freak as well.

Francessa is over-the-top here in his commentary.

Wait. Wait. How much did he make? 7 million! How much was he offered? 5 Million! How many other managers have that type of salary? None. Yeah, he made it to the playoffs 12 straight years, won 4 WS, drank a lot of Bigelow Green Tea: great. Who cares? What has he done for me lately? Nothing. His teams are expected to make the WS every year because they have the players, the of salary, and the of resources. How many years does he want anyway. HE’S 67! He’s not gonna coach forever. Sooner or later, it was going to come to an end. The Yankees gave him a good option in my opinion. Torre’s ego and pride got the best of him.

Hey Mo, will give 4 million base, 100 grand per save…..Oh yeah, one year deal…

Mo can go anywhere and get several times that.  Torre would be lucky to get 1/2 the Yankees’ offer from any team.  Big difference.

Hey Mo, will give 4 million base, 100 grand per save…..Oh yeah, one year deal…

Except that this would be WAY less than what other closers make. First, you’d have to offer Mo a one-year deal worth something like $15M then offer him more money based on incentives.

Mo can go anywhere and get several times that.  Torre would be lucky to get 1/2 the Yankees’ offer from any team.  Big difference.

This is also true. No other team will pay Joe more than maybe $3M.

I think there’s only one conclusion: Joe doesn’t want to manage anymore.  If he still wanted to manage, he’d accept being the highest paid manager in the game at the premiere franchise where he’s worked for twelve years.  I think he wants to put his feet up, which makes sense considering that the chief objection to him on this board is that it looks like he wants to put his feet up.

One day I’d like to be able to turn down 5 to 16 million dollars.

Also, in terms of how Torre leaving affects Posada, Mariano and Pettitte - I’m assuming all three, besides wanting Torre back also desire a) a hefty contract (this excludes Pettitte, with his player option) and b) an excellent chance of making the post-season.  Even with a new manager, what other team is going to give these guys a better chance to win (after all, none is a spring chicken in baseball terms) and superior earning potential?  A team may very well offer a ridiculous contract, but these guys, at this point in their careers are playing to win another championship.  Only Boston and perhaps Anaheim could offer a similar guarantee of making the playoffs in 2008.

My point is, making an offer like that to Rivera would be insulting…..Much like the well calculated offer that was given to Torre….Rather than go through all this PR crap, just let him go, rather than this bullshit

Fridays back page….. TORRE TO YANKS   DROP DEAD!!!!

But a one-year $40 million dollar offer to Mariano would not be insulting.  He might not take it but it wouldn’t be insulting.

$40 million for one-year is a much closer equivalent to the offer to Torre.

Hey Mo: 2 years $26M +1 mutual option @ $13M and $1M for each round of the playoffs
Hey Jorge: 2 years $24M +1 mutual option @$12M and $1M for each round of the playoffs

Incentives: Francesca, etc. are up in arms because the Yankees want to put incentives into Torre’s contract.  I think the explanation for this part of the contract was poorly phrased by a guy who I don’t care to hear from again (Randy Levine sounds like a total loser- he should be working for the mets). The Yankees should have called it profit sharing because as the Yankees advance in the playoffs they make more money that they plan on sharing with their manager who would already be the highest paid manager in baseball by a large margin.  I work in finance and I think a base + bonus system is the best for motivation and goodwill.