Riddle me this: why do people who make tens of millions of dollars a year playing baseball need to be cajoled/harangued/coddled by their manager?  This is not kindergarten, they are (or supposed to be) responsible adults.  Why in seven hells should they require inspiration for Joe Girardi or Joe Torre or whoever??

I honestly don’t understand.  If they need to be motivated on a daily basis by things/people other than the fact that this is their fucking JOB, maybe it’s time they sought alternative means of employment.

The comparison to last year’s start is indeed encouraging (and last year only got worse for the rest on May), but it is troubling to look at the run differentials at this point in both seasons.  In ‘07, the Yankees were at 20-24 with a +27 RD, implying some pretty bad luck.  This year, the 20-24 record comes with a -18 RD.  Obviously they are vastly underperforming their capabilities, but their pythagorean record at this point is not as encouraging as last year’s. 

About the manager having to light a fire under his players, I’m just generally skeptical that very many athletes who reach this level are not, by nature, extremely competitive people who can’t stand losing.  Almost every successful athlete I know is like that; it’s part of what has driven them to become so good.

I don’t think the current situation is as dire as it was at the start of the last few seasons.  Missing the two most valuable players the last few years and replacing them with guys who hit worse than most pitchers can’t help any team.  Whoever kept fantacizing about pencilling in Alberto Gonzalez at SS and moving Jeter is insane- the guy is tiny and cant hit.  He also can’t catch a pop-up apparently. If I were a pitcher I’d hate to come to the Yanks- there are so many poor defenders on this team: from 1B to LF to C to SS (although supposedly Jeter’s range is above avg now), these guys make everything difficult.  It’s a shame not one hitter (except maybe Matsui) could get hot to pick up the slack for ARod and Jorge but it is what it is. 

Last night’s game was one of the worst I’ve ever been to.  Unfortunately I am among a minority of Yankee fans who disdain the Mutts and view them and their fans as a cancer that should be removed from NY.  The subway series is truly no-win for a Yankee fan and I wish it were discontinued.  Nothing worse than watching those silly orange idiots trounce my favorite pitcher, that dimwit lefty of their’s shut us down, and that dancing idiot hit a HR.  Well, actually, there is something worse- listening to Sterling and Waldman whine about everything while on line for a dog.  Which brings me to the best thing about the Subway Series I so detest: listening to The Mutts announcers who are really very good.  Finally, who works the public address at Yankee Stadium?  Was that the real Bob Sheppard last night or the immitation?  The immitation is downright creepy and should cease immediately.  Also, whoever plays “we will rock you” when the score is 11-2 should be fired.  Ditto for the guy who played “enter sandman” when Rivera came in against Cleveland with the Yanks down big in game 4 of the ALDS last year.  Finally, YES programming stinks- this Randy Levine should be fired.

I think the pythag was important last year because there really wasn’t that much hope of a huge turnaround in the team. If anything, people were just waiting for ARod to come back to earth.  The only thing the team had to “look forward” to was the arrival of Clemens…yeah.  So the fact that there should be huge improvements with the return of ARod, Posada, an effective Hughes… there’s hope on the horizon, maybe.

Was that the real Bob Sheppard last night or the immitation?

It’s Sheppard’s regular backup guy.  I forget his name, but he’s been working with Bob for many years.

Don’t you find that creepy?  Just use your own voice.  It’s really weird- just another of the cheesy things that mgmt is doing to ruin the brand and make it more like Shea.  Next thing you know we’ll have a silly mascot too.  I’d get rid of YMCA, Cotton-Eyed-Joe, Waldman/Sterling, and YES management.  Does anyone disagree?

Not buying Girardi. If only because I just read some analysis from a couple years ago about how managerial decisions rarely cost teams anything (or add value, Mike Scioscia). Other than establishing order and keeping the peace, Girardi doesn’t have much to do with a veteran team winning or losing. The rotation getting its shit together? Return of the offense? I seem to recall certain metrics demonstrating how pitching and hitting better, over time, translates into wins.

Exactly, SSF.

On a positive note, Cano played some nifty defense last night.  That’s really all I can think of.

I agree with DaPuj. Last year, we were holding out for our record to catch up to our performance. This year, we’re holding out for our performance to improve. This year’s Pythag doesn’t bother me because it’s right were it ought to be. The hope this year isn’t that we will start playing up to our numbers but rather that our numbers themselves will improve. And they should.

It’s just been so very painful.  And they keep baiting us with little tantalizing bits…Matsui ties the game in the ninth, only for Mo to give up his first run in walk-off style…getting the tying run to the plate down by three…they get the hopes up, and then dash ‘em.  It’s the one part of my vacation in Florida that has sucked, especially reading all of the Tampa Bay papers in all their gloating.

I told myself in the beginning of the season that I’d consider this a transition year, with any real competition they provided a bonus.  I guess I’ll just keep telling myself that.  Can’t they at least score a little?  Third fewest runs in the AL, in the dumper with the Royals and Orioles of the world.  With or without Posada or A-Rod, 4.06 runs per game is still awful. Yeesh.

I don’t know what to think about this season other than the following:

1)The team is in transition. It has been really for two to three years now. It has attempted to squeeze in one or two younger guys each year and live with the contracts of some fading older players hoping for the best by blending the two influences.

2) The injury bug continues to afflict the team in very serious areas and despite a spring training conditioning effort unlike recent seasons. A-rod and Posada were probably the best players last year offensively and to lose them has been a big hurt on the overall confidence of the offense. It’s like losing Varitek and Manny or Ortiz. I doubt Boston would be doing as well either.

3) the schedule has been really strange and unfavorable to date with a ton of road games. It also seems like the Yanks have hit some teams like Tampa last week that are hot at the time. Of course when the Yanks are reeling and in last every team looks hot.

4) the weather too has been lousy particularly in April. Not unusual but some dome games or Calf games early might have been friendlier.

5) the youth program hasn’t served the team well this year though it may be the necessary ingredient for future success. The attorney general is hitting more of late like his old self. Hughes and Kennedy are big disappointments. Chamberlain has looked somewhat human but by far has been the best of the three.  Olendorf runs hot and cold.  All in all, they are performing like typical youngsters. They are subject to the confidence they bring at a particular moment. When they tense up under pressure they often fold. Just like on the Royals and the other young teams the Yanks were often kicking around the last few years. Some may improve but the reality is many of these kids may never come around. We got spoiled with Cano and Wang and Melky.  Even these guys have slumps and have something to prove though on the whole they are the nucleus of the next Yankee wave.
Its seems just like yesterday that we were singing Damon’s praises. He’s really stunk the past ten days or so.  He’s now a .250 leadoff man. He’s not alone of course.

As to Girardi. Not all his fault but he has proven to be no tactical genius in my opinion. He’s been limited in what he can do but I can’t understand why he puts people in the lineup that are 0-9 against a starter and bats them second. I know that Duncan and Ensberg aren’t hitting but against Perez maybe it’s questionable to have so many leftys in the lineup particularly some that haven’t had even a hit off of the guy. I will give Girardi at least 3/4 of a season before casting a vote but to date I see no edge over Torre. In fact I think Torre has been vindicated in my mind because the injury toll the past few years and players slumps were present for him as well proving the manager can do only so much. At least when the team got their health back over the past couple of years they came on. We will now see.

The Yanks just faced three of the best lefties in in the game, in a row, without A-rod or Posada. Jeter’s bat is awake, all though he always hits the Mets, Pettitte pitched well, Edwar and Veras looked good and most importantly, A-rod is back on Tuesday.

With a front three of Wang, Pettitte and Moose 4.0 and a rested A-rod, I’m expecting a 15-5 run sometime in the next month or so.

Didn’t I read that Bob Sheppard’s son was a stand in? Kind of like the Paul Harvey thing I guess. His boy is probably about 78.

In fact I think Torre has been vindicated in my mind because the injury toll the past few years and players slumps were present for him as well proving the manager can do only so much

Torre did some things (ok, many things) that drove me crazy, but on the whole i wouldn’t have been too upset if he came back for another year.

that said, Torre is old.  he’s only going to manage for another few years. 

this change HAD to come at some point.  so it might as well have been now. 

you can’t keep waiting around for the Yankees to win one more WS so that Torre could ride off on a white horse.  sometimes you have to just pull off the band-aid and make the change. 

and the guy i wanted for the long haul is Girardi.

he’s been just *OK* this year, but he is only 40-50 games into his second year managing.  he is energetic and smart, and we have to allow him the ability to learn from his mistakes.

He’s been limited in what he can do but I can’t understand why he puts people in the lineup that are 0-9 against a starter and bats them second. I know that Duncan and Ensberg aren’t hitting but against Perez maybe it’s questionable to have so many leftys in the lineup particularly some that haven’t had even a hit off of the guy.

Abreu laced a double and hit a bomb off of Johan Santana the day before.  that carries more weight to me than his previous 9 ABs against Perez, some of which were from 2002.  the entire line-up sucks right now, i just can’t take issue with how Girardi draws it up.  you have a bag full of dogcrap, and he is just reaching into that bag and picking out names to fill out the lineup.  what should he do?

Shelley Duncan is just not a good player.

The schedule has been funky thanks in part to His Holiness, but the Yanks have played 20 home games and 24 road games to date.  That’s really not so outlandish.  The Tigers have had the same split so far.  The Blue Jays have played 19 home games and 27 away.  The White Sox have also played 27 on the road and only 16 at home.  Over in the NL, the Cubs home/road split is the same as their record—27-17.  Arizona has also played 27 home and 17 away games, while the Astros have had only 17 home games and 28 on the road.

Bottom line—scheduling MLB is a bear, and there’s some strangeness every year.  In the end, everybody plays 81 and 81, weather permitting.

Looking at the team’s VORP and…

Cano, Ensberg and Molina are at a combined 18 (well 17.7) runs below REPLACEMENT LEVEL! Replace those three with the All-Star performances we were expecting from 2nd, 3rd, and catcher and the Yanks are probably at least 50 runs or so better. The drag of the two injuries and Cano’s slump can not be over stated. Everything else (well, maybe other than Kennedy/Hughes) is minuscule compared to that.

And I don’t think we can blame Girardi for that.

Shelley Duncan is just not a good player.

Blasphemy!  His 2007 pro-rates to 57 HR and 138 RBI in 600 at-bats.  FIFTY-SEVEN BOMBS AND 138 RIBBIES!!!!!

I had initially pro-rated those numbers for 700 PA, but then I realized that the people who would make that argument don’t know what a PA is.

he’s been just *OK* this year, but he is only 40-50 games into his second year managing.  he is energetic and smart, and we have to allow him the ability to learn from his mistakes.

Sounds about right. Energy is a funny thing, and impossible to quantify, but it’s another way of saying that his personality is beneficial to the team. That assumes it’s a good fit, but I wouldn’t speculate that it isn’t. Seems like all that really counts is that people like being around the ballpark, and if the manager helps that, good. Then again, some managers (Billyball?) inspire better play by being assholes, so it comes down to fit then too. Just a guess, but this mix of older, very experienced, pretty savvy guys plus really young kids in a difficult environment… I’d say patience and serenity for the former, positive approach for the latter would be ideal. I don’t see any problems w/ Girardi.

Then again, I haven’t been scouting the Yanks much yet. Too early… I still can’t say I know what the Sox have at this point.

It’s not the home/road split that gives me optimism. It’s the fact that we had to play all our games against Detroit and Cleveland (save for the rain game against Detroit) along with a healthy dose of Boston, Tampa Bay, and the Mets front loaded. All those teams could reasonably have been expected to be good teams this year and we had to play them all back-to-back-to-back-to-back without our two most valuable players. That’s tough.

Look what we did to Seattle when we got even a short reprieve. Obviously things won’t be that rosy, but it’s not stretch to suppose that we should be able to get over .500 and then put some (positive) distance between us and .500. If we get to July still stick in first gear, then it’s time to panic.

This team is helpless against LHP without ARod and Posada.  It’s really that simple.

Energy is a funny thing, and impossible to quantify…

No it’s not.  E=mc^2

Then again, some managers (Billyball?) inspire better play by being assholes, so it comes down to fit then too.

Actually, Billy didn’t really do all that much in the way of inspiring.  Throwing shit around the clubhouse doesn’t actually motivate very many people.  His “genius” pretty much came down to playing whoever were the best players at the moment, without regard to status or reputation or contract.  That, and shredding pitchers.  He wouldn’t last a week in the 21st century game.

It’s really that simple.

Yes and no.  They are just hideously bad against lefties, but so are at least a half dozen other teams.  Four of those teams have better records than the Yankees, although three of those four seem to be coming back to earth recently.

What bothers me about the lefty thing is that this team should be better than this against them. Cano and Matsui have a history of holding there own and better against lefties. Jeter, The Rod and Posada can hit lefties too. Ensberg and Duncan are supposed to be able to spot guys like Giambi and Abreu who are worthless against them, but they can’t even do that. And Melky is a switch hitter, he’s going to have to hit them at some point. Healthy and playing to the projection (ie, on paper), this team should be about as good against righties as it is against lefties.

This team is helpless against LHP without ARod and Posada.  It’s really that simple.

yup. 

and going back to the scheduling *excuse*, the yankees have seen a disproportionate # of lefties since A-Rod got hurt.

A-Rod re-injured his quad in Cleveland, right? 

starting from that series, they have played 17 games and seen 8 lefty starters.  couple that with guys like JP Howell and Rafael Perez picking up wins out of the bullpen, and it’s not hard to see the problem.

that doesn’t EXCUSE someone like Cano who has just been terrible from start to finish, but not only were 2 of the Yankees’ best hitters injured, their 2 best RH options were injured. 

they were very vulnerable to LHP last year, so i thought Ensberg was a brilliant pickup, but it just hasn’t worked out.  even last year, when he didn’t hit that well, he hit lefties pretty well.  i thought Ensberg was a solid RH option to pick up, but he’s been pretty terrible. 

ugh.

With the way the WOE works, I expect Arod to go 3-20 upon his return.

i wouldn’t be shocked if A-Rod struggled when he comes back.  i don’t normally buy into the whole “headcase/choker” nonsense, but there is going to be a TON of pressure on him.

he is going to be looked at to single-handedly start what has been a pathetic offense.

I’m kinda hoping ARod will turn WOE into Whoa! upon his return…

I agree on Ensberg- I was a big fan of that pickup and it hasn’t worked out well.  Small sample size though so maybe he turns it around. 

You know who can hit lefties? This guy named Barry Bonds.  Unfortunately Giambi is not moveable but MAYBE (unlikely, I know) we can move (dump) Damon to OAK, SD, TEX, SEA, STL, HOU, MIL, or SD- they all seem to be able to use him.  I know it’s complicated but Bonds is a big upgrade over Damon at DH.  I’m a big Bonds fan but I know most aren’t so it would be very controversial.

Dumping Damon = Matsui in LF full-time.  No thank you.

I agree on Ensberg- I was a big fan of that pickup and it hasn’t worked out well.  Small sample size though so maybe he turns it around.

Agree. I’m disappointed so far, but he really does deserve more time to see what he can do.

Matsui in LF full-time is bad but how much worse is he than Damon?  I mean, did you see Damon’s throw on Saturday?  I have never seen a MLer throw that poorly.  I honestly think most HS OFers have better arms than Damon.  It’s really sad.

Much worse, even with the arm. It’s not like Matsui can throw like an able bodied male either.

And speaking of shitty arms, what the hell is wrong with Abreu. His throws last night were abominable.

How many runs do you think would be saved by having the Tampa OF rather than what we have?  I think the benefits of good defense may be underestimated b/c it doesn’t incorporate the psychological and physical fatigue that is averted when an excellent play is made.  For instance, last night with a mental midget like Oliver Perez on the mound that play by Church could have saved a big inning.  And that non-play by Giambi that was ruled a FC would be made by 90% of 1B and would have really preserved Wang.

“it” ebing defensive metrics

Riddle me this: why do people who make tens of millions of dollars a year playing baseball need to be cajoled/harangued/coddled by their manager?  This is not kindergarten, they are (or supposed to be) responsible adults.  Why in seven hells should they require inspiration for Joe Girardi or Joe Torre or whoever??

Because they’re human beings.  I’d imagine playing professional baseball is a difficult thing to be mentally and physically prepared to do over the course of a 162 game season.

Beyond this, it seems like basic human nature that the more money the players make, the more financially secure they become, the MORE cajoling some may need to maintain the proper level of intensity.  Like in Rocky III, Rocky needed Apollo to help him get the “eye of the tiger” back.

The schedule gets easier? This team played a dead Tigers team, and lost four straight to them, including being swept at home,  before winning one.

They played a Mets team that just lost 3 of 4 at home to the Nationals.

Define easier.

adj. eas·i·er, eas·i·est
1. Capable of being accomplished or acquired with ease; posing no difficulty: an easy victory; an easy problem.
2. Requiring or exhibiting little effort or endeavor; undemanding: took the easy way out of her problems; wasn’t satisfied with easy answers.
3. Free from worry, anxiety, trouble, or pain: My mind was easy, knowing that I had done my best.
4.
a. Affording comfort or relief; soothing: soft light that was easy on the eyes.
b. Prosperous; well-off: easy living; easy circumstances.
5. Causing little hardship or distress: an easy penalty; a habit that isn’t easy to give up.
6. Socially at ease: an easy, good-natured manner.
7.
a. Relaxed in attitude; easygoing: an easy disposition.
b. Not strict or severe; lenient: an easy teacher; easy standards.
8. Readily exploited, imposed on, or tricked: an easy mark; an easy victim.
9.
a. Not hurried or forced; moderate: an easy pace; an easy walk around the block.
b. Light; gentle: an easy tap on the shoulder.
10. Not steep or abrupt; gradual: an easy climb.
11. Economics
a. Less in demand and therefore readily obtainable: Commodities are easier this quarter.
b. Plentiful and therefore at low interest rates: easy money.
12. Promiscuous; loose.
adv.
1. Without haste or agitation: Relax and take it easy for a while.
2. With little effort; easily: success that came too easy.
3. In a restrained or moderate manner: Go easy on the butter.
4. Without much hardship or cost: got off easy with only a small fine.

PagsRags—This team long ago decided that defense wasn’t all that important. Big contracts were [important] though, in other words, names. The Ryan Church’s of the world need not apply.

Don, if you’d rather play the Tigers and Mets than the Orioles and Mariners, that’s up to you. Personally, I don’t put much stock in using a handful of recent games to demonstrate that the Tigers and Mets are “dead” and therefore no longer dangerous teams.

Shit happens throughout the course of the season. It’s happened to the Tigers. It’s happened to the Yankees. It’s happened to the Mets. That doesn’t make them bad teams.

“I’d imagine playing professional baseball is a difficult thing to be mentally and physically prepared to do over the course of a 162 game season.”

I talked to a guy named John Amaechi recently—former NBA player (who later came out as gay, is why the name is familiar to you).

He said that an NBA locker room is just like any other job.  For the most part the guys don’t get super psyched or emotionally involved day in and day out.  I asked him about enjoying the aspect of being physically gifted, and he said that pales pretty quickly.  So you can imagine that in a workaday sport (as opposed to football, say) you might want a manager/coach who knows when to try and rally the guys and when to leave them alone, when to let them be professionals and when to get in their face.

Now that’s just one guy’s opinion about a different port altogether, but it really surprised me how blase he was about the competition aspect of the sport.

[38] SG, I don’t think he meant using multisyllabic words.

“I asked him about enjoying the aspect of being physically gifted, and he said that pales pretty quickly.”

Given that everybody else one is competing against is as gifted, some much more so, that’s hardly surprising.

SG—That was a rhetorical question.

Of course John, you could simply be grasping at straws. Which I believe you are.

That was a rhetorical <strike>question</strike> imperative.

Fixed.

“that’s hardly surprising”

Maybe.  Perhaps I didn’t phrase the question to him right.  For example, I feel pleased when I fix something around the house—I know I’m not the best at it, but I’m satisfied with a job well done ( by my standards).  Similarly, I know there are better writers and producers than me but I’m still happy when I think I did something well.  Not every day, but sometimes, thank goodness.

Big contracts were [important] though, in other words, names. The Ryan Church’s of the world need not apply.

that explains why Melky bumped Johnny Damon out of CF last year.

Don, this is a serious question.  I tried to check all posts by you but that feature doesn’t seem to work.  When was the last time you said something positive about the Yankees or a Yankee?

We’re all gloomy gusses around here sometimes, but I don’t get the sense that you really like the team at all.  Why not switch allegiances?

yup @ 48 -  Hey, one for Joe Torre!

But this team, under Papa Steinbrenner, has an obsession with big names and bigger contracts. When Papa was banned, the team was built the right way, using all methods.

And Damon was hurting quite a bit in 2007, remember those calves!?

@ 49—I predicted they’d win 88 games before the season started. Pretty positive, considering.

And thanks for your interest!  Next….

I think the benefits of good defense may be underestimated b/c it doesn’t incorporate the psychological and physical fatigue that is averted when an excellent play is made.

I tried making this point last year for why Torre would start Cairo at 1B so often, and why he seemed to value good defense at first base in general (Cairo, Mientkiewicz, 2005 Tino, etc) even if the player basically couldn’t hit his weight.

I do think there is a psychological effect that sub-par defenders have.  It’s not just more pitches and extra batters, which are quantifiable.  It’s Jeter taking an extra second to make a perfect throw and doing the exact opposite, or Wang tightening up and trying to strike guys out instead of just letting the defense make plays, or Cano just stepping on second base to get one out and not risking the double play… etc.  How do you quantify that?  It could be impossible, at least with the statistics tallied today. 

It’s great that in the past 5 years, we’ve been trying to quantify defense beyond just “total times the ball touched the guy’s glove minus errors,” which we had previously been doing for the past, like, 75 years.  But I feel like things like zone rating don’t tell the whole story, and that’s why some managers don’t necessarily buy into “he’ll make up with his bat what he gives away with his glove,” and that’s why you had Miguel Cairo playing 1B for a team with a payroll of $200MM.

Grasping at straws? Don, in this wonderful information age in which we live, you will find countless examples of people overreacting to short stretch of games without respect to context. Furthermore, you will find plenty of evidence demonstrating that those overreacting are usually wrong. It’s not grasping at straws to try and add some balance or perspective to a situation before making proclamations.

Again, the only way to maintain the teams like the Orioles, Mariners, Royals, and Rangers are stronger teams than the Mets and Tigers is to base your evaluations on nothing but a woefully inadequate sample of games. If you want to build your case on that foundation, be my guest. My only request is that people save the freakout until after the Yanks have gotten a chance to beat up on the weak sisters of MLB a bit. If they still suck after that, we’ve got a problem.

I’d wager good money that both the Mets and Tigers have superior records to those four teams at the end of the year.

Also, Don, it’s pretty disingenuous to bash the Yanks for targeting nothing but “big money” players and then show up after every Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy clunker to hate on the Yankees for trying younger pitchers. You can’t have it both ways, mon ami.

And Damon was hurting quite a bit in 2007, remember those calves!?

Damon also came back and hit pretty well. He didn’t remove Melky from his spot in CF.

Melky also wasn’t traded in the offseason.

The facts definitely undermine your point, but I have a feeling there’s a snarky rebuttal headed this way.

I’m neither a Cash lover nor hater.  His track-record is mixed at best in my opinion but, like I’ve said before, I think history will be the judge when all the young players develop (or don’t).  What I have been most frustrated with is his inability to think outside the box and get a Ryan Church, a Carlos Quentin, or, yes, a Carlos Pena to fill a hold rather than a Damon, Abreu, or Matsui.  But if you think about it, as disappointing as those guys are, they are not supposed to be prime contributors but, rather, should be winding down their time here until younger players are ready.  Problem is, I don’t see any promising young players (regulars) ready to step in for 2009 and hands are tied by the fact Damon and Matsui are somewhat unmoveable.  Perhaps one of them can be packaged along with a pitcher for a good, young 1Bman or OFer.  We need a Roberto Kelly for Paul O’Neil type trade.

Don’s a glass-half full guy, but that’s certainly his right.  I remember him being a big proponent of putting Joba in the pen at the end of last year and that turned out pretty well when a lot of us were very much against it (myself included) so I guess that can be considered positive.

I loves me an old-fashioned off-day snark fest.

I honestly think most HS OFers have better arms than Damon.

When was the last time you watched a HS baseball game?  Not like a state AAA championship or anything, but just a run-of-the mill regular season game between a couple of average teams?  Most guys with better arms than Damon pitch in HS.

that non-play by Giambi that was ruled a FC would be made by 90% of 1B…

That would be the diving stop while holding a runner on first?  That ball probably gets through more than half the time no matter who is playing there.  The throw was completely ridiculous though.

You know what’s really weird?  I watched Giambi down in Tampa taking infield before a couple of ST games.  He was hoovering every ball hit to him, pivoting perfectly, and making strong accurate throws to second base.  Did like thirty of these each day.  But when he has to make that play in a game, he throws like a girl.

MC- I think Giambi makes diving plays when an avg 1Bman would make a leaning backhand.  And did you see Damon’s throw on Saturday- I think it was in the 8th inning?  It was really sad.  I think most good Varsity OFers on NYC HS teams can throw as good as him. It’s not just the strength but the accuracy too.

What I have been most frustrated with is his inability to think outside the box and get a Ryan Church…

It’s not like Omar plucked Church off the scrap heap, you know.  The Milledge trade looks pretty good right now, but a quarter of a season is probably not the best way to evaluate that one.  And the Yankees had too many OFers going into this season, so why should they even have been looking at a guy like Church.

I think Giambi makes diving plays when an avg 1Bman would make a leaning backhand.

I know you think that.  It’s very obvious that the guy can do nothing right in your eyes.  And I’m certainly not suggesting that he’s a good defensive player.  But the reality is that most first baseman have very little range when they’re holding a runner on.  Like I said, that ball is in the OF against most teams most of the time.  Including Tampa Bay.

What I have been most frustrated with is his inability to think outside the box and get a Ryan Church, a Carlos Quentin, or, yes, a Carlos Pena to fill a hold rather than a Damon, Abreu, or Matsui.

One of these guys has turned in a great season. The other two have had hot starts, so your point is pretty ridiculous.

Some teams, like the D-rays have the leeway to take absurd gambles because they suck and they get lucky every now and then. They also run out guys like the dozen or so first basemen and DHs they’ve had other than Fred McGriff that could barely hit their weight.

The White Sox traded something of value to get Quentin and it worked out. Cashman’s trade for Betemit was the same thing, except that Quentin stayed healthy and has finally capitalized on his talent, something Betemit hasn’t had a chance to do yet.

And Ryan Church is not all of a sudden the best RF in the league. He’s having a hot month and a half, the way many good ball players do. He also cost the Mets a very promising prospect. And even with Church’s hot start, he is barely out hitting Matsui, someone you’ve identified as a problem on this team.

Tell you what. Identify these players before they get hot or point to an organization that consistently does it. If you can provide any sort of evidence that Cashman is lagging behind other GMs in this category (which will be impossible if you switch to the pitching side of the game, but I’ll humor you on offense) and I’ll stop reminding you that all you’re doing is point to guys who bet on 00 and happened to get lucky.

I know Minaya gave something up and so did Kenny Williams but the fact that we have too many OFers and a 1Bman who can’t move is all a result of Cashman himself.  And he has managed to use talent to make trades.  Problem is the players we acquired via those trades: Randy, Weaver, Abreu, Vazquez, ARod, and the guys we got for Sheffield.  So far it’s about 50/50 success/failure.  Obviously ARod is a major success, although we did give up a blue-chip player to get him, and Abreu I still think is a success.  In the other cases, even though the players we traded didn’t amount to much, since they were obviously worth something at the time it would have been nice to get talent rather than a name.  I’d say Cash gets a 6.5/10 in trades, a 4/10 in FA signings, and a 7.5/10 in draft/signings ( only 7.5 b/c he has a huge financial advantage).  Overall I’d say he’s 6/10 or above-average.

Ryan Church was already a good pro w/Washington, he has a great glove, and he makes MUCH less than Matsui or Damon.  Quentin put up great #‘s in the minors.  Xavier Nady is another guy who is serviceable.  But you are right Cowboy, I wouldn’t want any of them over Matsui at the same price.  But they are not at the same price and eventually even the Yankees have a budget.

I know Minaya gave something up and so did Kenny Williams but the fact that we have too many OFers and a 1Bman who can’t move is all a result of Cashman himself.

except for Giambi.  George gave him that ridiculous contract. 

when the Yankees signed Damon and re-signed Matsui, they had VERY little in the upper levels of their farm to make trades with.  if they wanted to make a trade for an impact player, it was going to take Cano or Wang.

as to why that was has been beaten to death.

given the transformation of the farm system over the last 3 years, i am comfortable saying that this was an area Cashman wanted to address but lacked the authority.

all of that is to say that 2-3 years ago, the Yankees were forced to operate in the free agency market to fill holes unless they could get players like Abreu on salary dumps. when you go the FA route, you are forced to give long contracts that usually pay for past performance.

the yankees are mostly stuck with these guys for another year.

after this year and next year, the yankees should have the chips and the payroll flexibility to make whatever trades they want to.  right now, they are still cleaning up the mess from the past 5 years, some of it Cashman’s fault, some of it NOT his fault. 

it is after this year that i think we will get the best idea of cashman’s abilities (if he is still around). 

you have to give some of their position player talent another year or two to advance before it can be as attractive to other teams as their pitching prospects are. 

you want the yankees to trade for Church or Quentin, but did the Yankees have a Lastings Millege to trade?  not really.  Jackson is a good prospect, but still a year or two away.  the White Sox traded a 20 year old power hitting 1Bman for Quentin.  did the Yankees have anyone like that?  i certainly wouldn’t have wanted them to trade Montero for Quentin.

it’s easy to just say “why can’t we trade prospects for this guy?”, but we don’t know what prospects the other teams are after.

Ryan Church was already a good pro w/Washington, he has a great glove, and he makes MUCH less than Matsui or Damon.

yes, but we don’t know how much of that trade was because Bowden wanted Millege or that he just wanted to trade Church.

you are assuming that Bowden was shopping Church, which i don’t think was the case. 

also, Damon and Matsui were signed 2 years ago.  you are arguing as if Cashman signed them this offseason instead of signing a freely available Ryan Church.

you don’t get to wipe your roster clean and start over every off-season.

“Similarly, I know there are better writers and producers than me but I’m still happy when I think I did something well.”

Hmm, I get your point, but maybe the difference I see is that you probably didn’t come up through high school and college publicly dominating your peers in writing and producing, and you’re not daily confronted with the work of your perceived superiors who are actively trying to hinder you - and you won’t get put out permanently to pasture when those skills erode (instead of improving, as I imagine is the actual case) in the next few years.

John @ 54— I have posted this season that the Yankees need to run Hughes and Kennedy out there every five days. Regardless of how mediocre both have performed.

I don’t recall any post by myself really knocking Kennedy, and while I have referred to Hughes as Phil Huggies, I have stood by these guys. And it was obvious that something was not right with Hughes, that he was hiding an injury, that his command was so awful. Said so before the broken rib showed up.

I also thought it dumb to send Kennedy down and bring up Ca$hman’s Mistake. Sorry you missed those posts.

If they didn’t pick up Abreu’s option, which was my choice even back in 2006 (looking ahead to the end of the 2007 season), then Ryan Church was an option. I posted many times regarding not picking up the Abreu option.

And whose fault is it that the roster is constructed the way it is? Sort of like the old Nast drawing of Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall, all in a circle, pointing at each other. Of course one of it is anybodys fault, especially Saint Brian.

Abreu is a prime example of the organiozations return to the 1980’s and names an contracts. Atempting to use the Damon/Melky tandem as opposite proof is badinage.

If they didn’t pick up Abreu’s option, which was my choice even back in 2006 (looking ahead to the end of the 2007 season), then Ryan Church was an option.

So you trade Melky for Church? Because if you don’t, Church still isn’t an option.

I’m not the GM, Saint Brian is, let him figure it out.

It is however easy to sign and/or trade for $16 million players [salary dump] when you’re the Yankees. Even Ca$hman can do that.

Cashman traded a bunch of crap for a good RFer (and a serviceable starter), one who has out performed JD Drew and Gary Sheffield since the trade and then picked up his option when nothing better was available. You can’t complain about a move when you are incapable of proposing a better one and other GMs with similar payrolls failed to make a better one. I mean, you can, but I don’t see the point.

To follow up on my point, last year, Abreu was something like the 7th or 8th best RFer, none of the RFers ahead of him (Markakis, Hawpe, Rios, Hart, Vlad, Magglio) were available. We’re 8 weeks into this season, so any proclamation of “being right” about any decision this far into the season is ridiculous, especially after the way Abreu turned it in the second half last year.

I know what this season was lacking - it needed Jon Lester throwing a no-hitter!

I like Abreu- he’s no longer a star but he’s good.  But Don makes a good point about creative GM’s with financial power using salary dumps to acquire or trade players.  The RedSox got Lowell and The Shill that way, and cash traded Randy and Sheff that way.  The verdict on both of those trades is still out.  And to say the Yankees didn’t have prospects is only partially true.  Navarro was used to get Randy but perhaps he could have been used to get Maine or Church or Oliver Perez or Bronson Aroyo.  I don’t recall too many examples of Cash pulling something good out of the scrap heap that wasn’t a complete fluke (Aaron Small).

Cashman is basically the master at picking up talent on salary dumps. To point Schilling and Lowell and ignore the first Johnson trade, Justice, Abreu, and A-rod is dishonest.

None of those guys that you listed came from the scrap heap. Maine cost Kris Benson, Church cost Milledge, Perez cost Nady (who was used as another “scrap heap acquisition” by Don) and Arroyo cost Pena.

We’ve seen him pick up pitchers for nothing, Gooden at 35, Duque after he’d been out of the league for two years, Chacon, Small, Bruney, Edwar, Britton, Proctor.

We’ve even seen him snag guys like Karim Garcia and Ruben Sierra who became useful roleplayers along with others who were good ideas that didn’t pan out (Lofton, Dellucci, etc.).

I can’t believe how crazy you two are for Ryan Church’s hot start, it’s getting to the point where you aren’t to be taken seriously if you’re going to point to a hot start by a middling corner OFer as a one of Cashman’s failures as a GM just because he happens to be playing across town.

If memory serves, the Yankees DID look into Ryan Church a few years ago, but the asking price was exhorbitant.  I could be wrong however.

Regardless, Church has career-highs so far in everything, at the age of 29.  He’s a good but not great player, having a great start.  Would I trade him for Abreu straight-up?  Sure.  Would Was or the Mets do that to get Abreu though?  I doubt it, no.

Ducque wasn’t out of the league for 2yrs.  I wouldn’t say the Randy Johnson trade was good- paying $16M for an everage pitcher is not a luxury many GM’s have. Benson is not a good pitcher.  Cashman traded Weaver with Brazoban for Kevin Brown, a name guy who made big $, and he traded Contreras for Loiza, another name guy.  Gooden was pre-Cashman.  Chacon, Britton, Small, Proctor, Karim Garcia, Sierra, are all irrelevant and I can’t believe you even bring them up to support your case.  Having Dellucci and not playing him then letting him go should be considered a mark against Cash, not for him.  Lofton stunk.  So did Womack.  What about the chips that were traded- did they bring back anything better than what should have been expected?  Love that Ruben Rivera for Irabu trade.  I’m sure quite a few moves are Steinbrenner’s but what?  What is a Cash move and what is a Tampa move is unclear yet those who pray to the holy Cash make it seem like whatever worked is him, and whatever didn’t is Tampa b/c it suits their argument.