“Is he the ideal first baseman? No. Can he play there seven days a week? We haven’t had him do that for a while,” Cashman said of Giambi.

Brian Cashman is Donald Rumsfeld, it appears.  Didn’t see that one coming.

at first, i thought this made a lot more sense b/c the CW is that Tejada is clearly done as a SS and i thought that seemed reasonable.  but he was average in UZR (which means about 25 runs better than Jeter) and above average in ZR.

i’m not going to worry about the stupidity of such a move b/c i don’t see any deal that would make sense for both teams.  the O’s would most likely demand more than fair value to deal him in division and the Yankees won’t want to pay more than fair value.

Apparently, the Orioles would like to move his salary and get a bit younger.  Also, the new GM has been given more leeway by Angelos than his predecessors.  They seem to want Farnsworth because Chris Ray is going to miss most of the year.  If the price is Melky + Farnsworth, should Cashman pull the trigger?  I would seriously have to consider that.  After all, Damon can play CF in 2008 and Austin Jackson can fill in by 2009.  Obviously, the Yanks run the risk of Melky finding his bat and being a force for years to come, but Tejada is not chopped liver himself and ought to have at least three good years ahead of him.

http://www.hawaiiwinterbaseball.com/articles/detail/91

Fabian, don’t you remember Drew Henson tearing up the AFL? I dont see HWB anything to get all pumped about.

Anyone read nomaas.org?

Their big offseason idea #2.  Sign Andruw Jones to a 1 year deal.

Offseason idea #4?  bring mickey mantle back to life and sign him to a 1 year deal.

Fabian, don’t you remember Drew Henson tearing up the AFL? I dont see HWB anything to get all pumped about.

1. I’m not sure what you’re responding to.

2. The HWB is a much tougher environment though the players aren’t as advanced, and contextually, Jackson’s performance is in fact more impressive.

3. Jackson’s been hitting at this level over his past 400+ plate appearances. Drew Henson had 1 month stretches where he set the world on fire, but never anything this long.

4. Sheesh, I was just posting a link to a fluff piece with a cool picture.

Their big offseason idea #2.  Sign Andruw Jones to a 1 year deal.

do we not think this is a good idea?

i think it is unlikely, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea.

Don has been tauting it for months, and while i don’t think it will happen, in theory it would be a very solid move.

and it’s not like there is no precedent for such a deal with a Boras client.

Its a great idea, so is cloning Babe Ruth.  i estimate would put the likelyhood of Jones signing a 1 year deal somewhere around .05%.

Don’t know if I’m reading this right, but if Jone’s Agent is Boras you would have to think chances of working with Cashman on a “unique” short term deal would be rather dim in light of recent A-rod happenings.

Among the numerous problems with the one year deal for Jones scenario is that it’s not something that Boras will be anxious to jump at.  Thus, if it happens, it will happen very late in the off-season.  How good an idea is it for one of the centerpieces of your off-season plan to be something that you won’t really know about until it’s time for pitchers and catchers to report?  And of course, one team throwing a multi-year offer on the table is all it takes to blow the whole thing up for you.

Its a great idea, so is cloning Babe Ruth.  i estimate would put the likelyhood of Jones signing a 1 year deal somewhere around .05%.

i don’t.  i think it’s unlikely, but FAR from impossible.

Jones had a TERRIBLE contract year.  if the yankees blew him away on a 1 year deal, i could see him taking a “do over” on his walk year.

what long term deals do you think are out there for Jones right now?

i think you are underestimating just how crappy he was in 2007.

he hit .222/.311/.413 in 2007.

do you see a mega-contract for someone coming off a season like that?  do you see Boras settling for a 3 year, $33M deal?

i really have no idea, but i place the odds much higher than you do.

I guess the question is what teams have money and need a CF?  Also, with Rowand and Torii Hunter out there Jones may find the market a little lacking.

He is going to sign in Washington.

But I may be mistaken, but I highly doubt he is settling for a year.

And of course, one team throwing a multi-year offer on the table is all it takes to blow the whole thing up for you.

that depends entirely on how much those deals are worth.

if the multi-year offers are for a low AAV, Boras might gamble on Jones having a good season and getting a much higher AAV next offseason.

“It’s pretty obvious which players we’re not going to trade,” the owner’s son said on Wednesday. “Chamberlain, Hughes and even Kennedy. Not for a position player.” -Hank
... I don’t know i like him sayin the “Not for a position player.” part…boo…

I don’t think Boras would mind if Jones signed a one-year deal, especially considering how poorly Jones played last year.  Jones signs a one year deal, plays great, then signs a long-term deal for a lot more money than he would have gotten the year before.

Boras had Millwood sign a one-year deal, so I can see him advising Jones to do it if that’s the best option.

Baltimore shopping Tejada?  They had their chance with the Angels, but turned them down.  I don’t think anyone is going to blow them away now that Tejada is a year older and slower.  Good luck trying to trade him.  I hope he doesn’t come to New York.

One article, Jerry Crasnick I believe, had a GM saying A-Rod could land in Baltimore.  Heh.  If A-Rod wants fans who won’t boo or media that won’t give a crap who he bangs on road trips, Baltimore is the place.  Of course, he will be booed lustily by the Yankee fans, who outnumber Oriole fans 3-1 at Camden when the Yanks are in town.

that depends entirely on how much those deals are worth.

Once there’s a multi-year contract on the table, Boras can start shopping it and create a market.

... I don’t know i like him sayin the “Not for a position player.” part…boo…

I actually think that’s a pretty reasonable thing to say.  The reason you don’t trade those guys for a hitter is that the team is going to suck without pitching better, because the offense is likely to be a little worse even if you add Cabrera.  But if you trade one of them for Santana, then you’ve improved your area of weakness, at least in the short term.

But if you trade one of them for Santana, then you’ve improved your area of weakness, at least in the short term.

i don’t disagree with your overall premise, but right handed offense is a MAJOR weakness right now as well.

Good luck trying to trade him.  I hope he doesn’t come to New York.

just like every trade, it depends on the cost.

i would not object to Tejada on principle.

if the price was right, i don’t see why the Yankees wouldn’t want him.

Im kinda attached to Joba and Hughes being a great 1-2 punch over the next couple years, im excited about it..and kennedy looks to be fairly nasty…Would it be great to have Johan? yeah..but is it worth it if you have to package both joba and hughes? Im just not a fan of these short term fixes anymore…I dont like playing moneyball…I enjoy watching home grown players…I think Girardi is going to be able to do alot with this squad…

Maybe it’s just me, but that Cashman comment almost seemed like a smack against Torre for using Giambi as a bench player. As much as I love nomaas.org and as much as I think the Yankees need a right-handed bat, signinmg Jones would be a big mistake.

i don’t disagree with your overall premise, but right handed offense is a MAJOR weakness right now as well.

I don’t disagree with you either, but my point is just that you can’t trade from one area of weakness to shore up another area of weakness and expect a net improvement.  Most people simply look at young pitching as an area of strength for the Yankees, and assume that they should trade from this surplus.  But you can’t ignore the fact that established major league pitching is by far the team’s biggest weakness.

For those who are curious, I’ve got Tejada projected to hit .310/.361/.494 as a Yankee, which would make him 14 runs above an average 3B.  That’s about 20 runs less than the last 3B was projected for, and about 20 runs more than Wilson Betemit projects to.

Re: Cashman/Rumsfeld - it’s a chicken or egg question - did sports executives or political figures start the trend of self-directed-q-and-a moments? It’s been happening on both sides for several years.

Im just not a fan of these short term fixes anymore

Santana is not a short term fix.  He’s in his prime.  With an extension, he’s the stud at the front of somebody’s rotation for years to come.  He’s what you hope that Chamberlain or Hughes might turn into in a few years.

I’m not sold on Jones, but I could live with him if it meant Melky would be part of a deal to improve the Yanks 3B/1B situation.

I think Jones would accept a one year deal, if only to improve his status as a free agent.  Last year didn’t help his cause.

One year of Jones might be the bridge needed until Austin Jackson is ready to play CF.

Yup - I guess if the Yanks gave up only Farns, I could live with Tejada.  However, I’m a Washingtonian and have had to endure many Orioles games through the years to satisfy my baseball fix.  Tejada is maddening to watch: sometimes, he works hard or looks like playing the game is easy.  Other times, he looks like he simply doesn’t give a crap.  I’m also wary of his age - I still think he’s at least 3 years older than he states.

If the Yanks had to give up an A or even B prospect, forget it.  I’d rather have Rolen.

Its a great idea, so is cloning Babe Ruth.  i estimate would put the likelyhood of Jones signing a 1 year deal somewhere around .05%.

This sounds a little high to me, but close enough. Do people who need a CF know what plan B is? Trading prospects for Coco Crisp. It’s not like finding a new DH. He’ll get 4 years from someone.

One of the most amusing stories of the offseason so far is watching Cashman. I think he’s a phenomenal sandbagger. He knows the Yankees are being asked to set the market for every big name, so he’s constantly coming up with these milquetoast plans like “play Giambi more” or “hold on to all our prospects” to tamp the price down. [All of baseball should thank him, btw.] This is “Bubba Crosby is my CF” all over again. I can’t believe he won’t make a play for Lowell, but he’s not stupid enough to announce the Yanks’ interest, and in fact he has to leak something else just to really throw people off the scent. Good work by him; what I don’t get is why people believe him when he insists the Yanks won’t be active in the FA or trad markets.

I certainly like Theo, to be clear, but Cashman also gets my respect here.

“trad”=trade

So acquiring Tejada would mean the Yanks lose two wins at 3B, perhaps one of which they would gain by restoring Betemit to his role as part time 1B and bench player (because if he starts that downgrades the bench).  I like the idea of Tejada, who would probably be motivated playing for a winning team again and may even allow the Yanks to unload Farnsworth - which would be unbelievable good luck.

What i meant by short term fix, i dont see how trading 3 of our pitchers for 1 pitcher makes sense..Joba, hughes and kennedy are going to be in our rotation for 08…if we trade them for santana…the rotation would be Santana, Wang, Mussina, Igawa?, Rasner, and so forth?  I love Santana as much as the next guy, and i think it would be awesome to have him in pin stripes…but at what cost?

4. Sheesh, I was just posting a link to a fluff piece with a cool picture.

This is gonna sound stupid, but that swing looks a bit herky jerky to me in the photo. I’ve never seen him hit live so I’m curious to see if his swing’s more Gary Sheffield or Ken Griffey Jr. Not speculating on talent, just the mechanics and aesthetics of the motion. Griffey Jr and Darryl Strawberry always appeared to me to have the most fluid and beautiful of swings in all of baseball.

What i meant by short term fix, i dont see how trading 3 of our pitchers for 1 pitcher makes sense..Joba, hughes and kennedy are going to be in our rotation for 08…if we trade them for santana…the rotation would be Santana, Wang, Mussina, Igawa?, Rasner, and so forth?

I think that only one of Hughes/Joba/Kenney would go in a trade for a Santana-type pitcher plus some other prospects who are either not in that class or are position players. I’m not sure the Twins would go for it, but that’s probably as far as the Yanks would be willing to go.

So you are making a one for one swap on the big league club.

I doubt Cashman would consider Lowell unless a “reasonable” sort of deal was available, i.e. something for three years or so.  After all, he only signed Damon (who was younger then than Lowell is now) once Boras lowered the year demands from seven down to four.  Of course, if Lowell is willing to sign for three years, he’ll stay in Boston.  Prying Lowell away on a five year deal simply makes no sense - which Cashman undoubtedly knows.

However, I’m a Washingtonian and have had to endure many Orioles games through the years to satisfy my baseball fix.  Tejada is maddening to watch: sometimes, he works hard or looks like playing the game is easy.  Other times, he looks like he simply doesn’t give a crap.

i trust that you have seen him WAY more than i have so i believe you.

however, given his comments every off-season, it seems to me that Tejada is a guy who just HATES losing. 

when he signed with Baltimore, he was probably told the O’s were going to keep spending to build a winner, yet they keep running in place.  kindof like A-Rod/Texas on a smaller scale.  they spend, but they spend foolishly.

i see him as a “change in scenery” guy.  i think he would flourish in a competitve environment.

but Farns for Tejada is too good to be true.  no way it happens.

Jackson’s swing was apparently rebuilt by the Yanks minor league coaches either last season or the year before - primarily to give him more power, I believe.  In any case, I wouldn’t make too many judgments based on a photo.

That is it, I am done with nomaas.org

Did you see the Joe Torre picture?  With the dodgers hat on, with the Tony Womack thought bubble?

It was Joe Torre who wanted Womack moved off 2nd, it was Joe Torre who stuck with Cano even though he started out 1-27 or whatever.  Rewriting history to fit their agenda is not right.

i dont see how trading 3 of our pitchers for 1 pitcher makes sense.

Who ever suggested such a thing?  I don’t think even Twins fanboys (if there is such a thing) would expect that.

It was Joe Torre who wanted Womack moved off 2nd, it was Joe Torre who stuck with Cano even though he started out 1-27 or whatever.  Rewriting history to fit their agenda is not right.

Torre gave Womack starts at all three OF spots and at D-freakin’-H after Cano came up, so I’m not sure who’s rewriting history here.

well, he was on the team, so he used him.

But the he himself moved Womack off 2b.  Torre was the person that pushed for Cano (ironically, it was because he was not happy with the way Womack was turning the DP)

I wouldn’t mind Tejada at all.  Especially if the deal is centered around Farnsworth.  I’ll agree it will take MORE than Farnsworth.  But what about Farnsworth and say Clippard?  Or Farnsworth, Clippard, and Veras?  Would you (throwing that out at anybody) do that?  I’d have to think yes.

You know what would be nice?  If the Yankees had a trade like above, and Tejada said, “I don’t want to play third”.  And then Jeter comes forward and says, “If him playing short is the only thing keeping this from being done is me moving to third, I’ll move.”  That would greatly improve the Yankees (not over ARod, but over what they are now), and also put to bed this idea that Jeter is too stubborn to move (he may be, but if he offers to move it would put that to bed).  I agree Tejada is no longer a GG’er at SS, but I think he at short and Jeter at third would be better than the other way around.

I’d put the odds of something like that happening at slightly higher than Babe Ruth being cloned

Was it?  I thought Cashman insisted on Cano being given a proper chance.  For me, the most bizarre thing was Womack playing LF.

That is it, I am done with nomaas.org

How are they a .org? Are they somehow the Sierra Club of Yankees chatter?

Torre was the person that pushed for Cano

i don’t remember it this way at all.

Agreed about the Lowell concepts, he would only go to NY for 4 yrs (which isn’t outlandish for a 33-year-old 3B with great hands and footwork). But I have to believe they’ll be active, if only because of the limited alternatives.

John M,

Did you read the article that went along with that picture?  The article I think is pretty good, and is actually a good idea to pursue.  One of the places Matsui may be willing to waive his NTC for is to go with Torre on the West Coast.  Definitely worth exploring.

The picture was probably a little over the top.  I had thought as well that Cashman was more responsible for Cano being called up, and him pushing for Cano to get a chance.  But I can’t say that is true for sure.  They would have been better served putting Cairo’s face there instead of Womack’s.  Would have made the same point, and been more defensible.  I do agree though that the Nomass guys should give the Torre thing a rest.  He’s gone; focus on what the Yankees do have.

I’d give Baltimore Farns and whatever AAAA pitcher (or two) they wanted for Tejada.  I’d only hope Girardi and a winning franchise could whip Tejada into shape.  While it would be great to see Jeter move for Tejada, I don’t think it will happen.

Too bad the trade rumors with Baltimore are centering on Tejada and not Bedard…

I’d put the odds of something like that happening at slightly higher than Babe Ruth being cloned

The odds of cloning the Babe would be a lot better if somebody had preserved his DNA.

this is how i remember it:

the Tampa faction signed Womack. there was some story about how Cairo asked for $1M or something, and someone from the Tampa braintrust said on a conference call “wow, for that money, we could have Tony Womack”.  someone else ran with that and inexplicably signed Tony Womack to a TWO year contract.  i am 100% positive that Cashman would not have OKed this move.

when the season started, Womack was playing 2B and he wasn’t hitting *that* badly (for Tony Womack).

during a game against Toronto, Bernie caught a ball in shallow CF and 8-hopped a throw to the plate allowing a runner to tag up on an embarrassingly shallow fly ball.

Cashman seized this opportunity to move Bernie out of CF, something he was clearly trying to do for a while as Kenny Lofton was signed in 2004 to play CF with Bernie moving to DH, but Torre had other plans.

Cashman called up Cano, and put Matsui in CF, moving Womack to LF.

the move was not really prompted by anything Womack had done, it was prompted by Bernie’s play in CF.  Cano was the most ready player, so it made sense to use him to solve the CF problem.

during a similar timeframe, Jaret Wright predictably hurt his shoulder.  this may have been another “i told you so” from Cashman to George.  Wang was called up.

the success of Cano and Wang re-opened Steinbrenner’s eyes to the value of young players and he began giving Cashman more authority. 

that’s how i remember it.

as for the Torre and Womack picture, it was a joke.

Those odds would still be lousy, but they’d be a lot better.

The odds of cloning the Babe would be a lot better if somebody had preserved his DNA.

Can’t they dig up his bones?

Yeah, but if I’ve learned anything from watching movies, they’d probably end up with Ruth-Pede (doesn’t quite have the same ring as Brundle-Fly), and with that many legs he’d have to be more injury prone, although the exoskeleton might mitigate that. Also I’m pretty sure poisonous bites are illegal in baseball.

wubba, if you’re worried about Joba, Phil AND IPK going in a Santana deal, rest easy.  That would be a preposterous deal and I don’t think Minnesota could even suggest it as a posturing initial proposal.

Can’t they dig up his bones?

Sure.  If you think that a few snips of dinosaur DNA thrown into a frog genome really will give you a T. rex.

I don’t see the O’s actually trading Tejada to the Yanks.  If they did, I would think they’d have to get what they thought was overpayment.  So Farns + AAAA pitchers won’t get it done, IMO.  If they did that, the league should just have Angelos whacked for the betterment of the franchise.

What would a fair trade for Tejada look like?  We can be generous and start with the idea that the Os actually think Farnsworth(less) is valueable, provided the Yanks ate most of the salary.

Ok, who else?  I don’t think Karstens/Rasner is gonna get it done.

“Can’t they dig up his bones?”
One would expect fans to be carrying his bones around like Medieval rulers kept bones and other things of Saints.

Andruw Jones- Could be Johnny Damon all over again… It also seems to be solving a problem we don’t have (OF) instead of our infield mess. Maybe Jones can play 3rd, huh? That would at least be entertaining.

About nomass.org idea about Matsui: Am I the only one who rather have Matsui over Damon? I’m guessing I’m just being too much of a fanboy, picking the loyal Yankee player over a Red Sox caveman. Though I would think Damon offered to the Dodgers would be more likely to be excepted.

I forgot to mention; the Dodgers probably don’t have a LF problem… they’re going to move Juan Pierre there next year, right?

Jeff Goldblum is really involved with a lot of genetic disasters.

Of course, I am going off a story told by John Sterling, the one who mentioned the turning the DP andecdote.

Nonetheless, Cano started very poorly, and Joe stuck with him

It also seems to be solving a problem we don’t have (OF) instead of our infield mess.

depends what you mean.  a lack of right handed power IS a problem the yankees have. do it does help solve a problem.

and i don’t see how it prevents any other move for an infielder.

it would free up an outfielder to trade, possibly for a 3Bman.

Am I the only one who rather have Matsui over Damon? I’m guessing I’m just being too much of a fanboy, picking the loyal Yankee player over a Red Sox caveman. Though I would think Damon offered to the Dodgers would be more likely to be excepted.

i would bet that Offense + Defense, they project very similarly.

and i would also bet that Matsui would have more perceived value and therefore bring back more in a trade.  i could be wrong about that.

it’s a tough call, but i would certainly be open to dealing Matsui.

Clay—You continue to astound.

I don’t see the O’s actually trading Tejada to the Yanks.  If they did, I would think they’d have to get what they thought was overpayment.  So Farns + AAAA pitchers won’t get it done, IMO.

agreed, they would want more from the yankees than from other teams.

Regardless of whether the Tejada deal works out (and I think he’d be a fine addition, agree with the more-motivated-in-a-more-competitive-environment-comments), Cash should be doing his best to get Farnsworth over to Baltimore.  Not that Farns is horribel.  He’s not.  Painful to watch does not equal horrible.  But getting rid of him would open the doors for more flexibility, more chances to see if one of our many 24 year-old righties can be just as league average but with more upside.

If a deal around Tejada and Farnsworth can be made it should be done in an instant.

And with the Damon/Matsui question one of them is expendable. I find myself leaning a bit towards keeping Damon, partially because I think if Matsui agrees to waive his NTC he can bring more in return.

I don’t disagree with you either, but my point is just that you can’t trade from one area of weakness to shore up another area of weakness and expect a net improvement.  Most people simply look at young pitching as an area of strength for the Yankees, and assume that they should trade from this surplus.

Minor league starting pitching is not a strength for the Yankees anymore.  The great prospects we had in 2006 that could’ve been used as trade bait, we don’t have anymore.  What happened?  They became major leaguers.  Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy stepped up in 2007 and the Yankees are counting on them in 2008.  Any trade involving them is trading a starting player.

Geez, Nate, that’s what I said.

Don has been tauting it for months,

Me too! I would even go as high as 3 years. Jones at age 33 could still be strong defensively. His 2007 is the aberration - it seems like everyone makes the same mistake every year by judging a player by his previous season alone. 

And he’d only result in a sandwich pick.

And of course, one team throwing a multi-year offer on the table is all it takes to blow the whole thing up for you.

Not really - what if that multiyear deal is miles short of what he thought he could get if he had one of his regular seasons?  The “prove yourself again” contract is a good plan for some players. It’s win-win for a team that doesn’t really want the guy long term.  I’d give Jones $18-$19M to play 1 year.

His 2007 is the aberration

No more so than 2005, or 2006 for that matter.  He’s 31.  It’s reasonable to expect him to decline.  His 2007 numbers aren’t the most reasonable starting point for that decline, his career numbers are.  He could still be strong defensively in a couple of years, but OTOH there’s some debate about how strong defensively he is right now.  He just doesn’t project to be that much of an upgrade over any of the Yankees current OFers.

As for Damon/Matsui/Jones:

Some people I think forget that Damon makes the outfield much stronger defensively. 

I would see 2 scenarios that make sense:

(1) If Jones can be had on the 1 year-prove-yourself-deal, then you can move Damon.  My quick guess is that Jones would be just as good as Damon in LF, if not better, with a stronger arm.  If he had a bounce back year, he’s going to be better than Damon offensively and provide us with some of that missing right handed power.  This is also why I wouldn’t mind Jones on a 2 year deal, perhaps with a mutual option? Even more insurance to get himself right so he can go into the FA market following a solid year. And if he plays well in NY, there’s no reason the Yankees wouldn’t be interested, helping to drive up his price, etc.

(2) If you can’t do that, you’ve got to keep Damon in LF for his defense and then deal with the logjam at DH with Matsui and Giambi (I am positive Cashman saying Giambi will factor in at 1B is just posturing, and I’m glad he’s doing that). Matsui is the most moveable and would probably net the most in return, but that’s because he’s the better player, so it would have to depend on the deal.  Wasting 2 guys that could net you *something* good by having a platoon at DH doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. In other words, we should have all the holes filled before we have the luxury of a Matsui/Giambi platoon at DH.  Salary eating needs to be an OK thing to do for Cashman from upstairs to make this happen, probably.

Regardless of whether the Tejada deal works out…Cash should be doing his best to get Farnsworth over to Baltimore.  Not that Farns is horribel.  He’s not.  Painful to watch does not equal horrible.

Not sure I agree.  Look, if Farns + other spare parts (A-Gon and Karstens or Clippard?) brings back Tejada, I’m all for it.  (BTW, I’d be against Farns + Melky for Tejada).  But I don’t think Farnsworth should be given away for marbles simply because he’s painful to watch (which, I entirely agree, he is).  Motivated by it being a walk year, I think he could put it all together…he certainly has the stuff.

Boy I really wish Yanks had been in on this Lidge action.  A pretty garbage-y package Houston settled for.  Geary and Bourn = Veras and Brett Gardner with a little more MLB experience.

Will be interesting to see if/how Lidge-to-the-Phillies affects the relief pitcher market.  Perhaps a little less leverage for Mo (not that I’m saying Cashman should put the screws to him) and one less possible landing spot for Cordero.  Seriously, I’m not sure I see a team that needs a closer and has $10m/year in its budget.  I’m not giving up on seeing him in the ‘stripes setting up Mo.

I see sleepyirv’s point about Andruw Jones making the OF more crowded (though yup is right that he solves the righty power bat problem).  I don’t like acquisitions that merely necessitate a trade to make the pieces fit. 

My position on Jones remains yes to a 1-year deal, no to long-term.  I kind of hope he gets big bucks from someone early in FA period.  At which point Rowand and Torii and their agents say: Wait a second, that guy sucked last year…if he’s getting $14m a year, I deserve at least that much.  And then all of a sudden Damon’s contract looks pretty reasonable and he can moved for something useful.

Hmm.. I didn’t really realize that my 2 scenarios both have a logjam at DH.

I guess I’m just opposed to moving Damon with Matsui replacing him because of the defensive downgrade.  I’m also opposed to moving Matsui when we’re trying to put players elsewhere on the field that will score runs now that what’s his name is gone.  Just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Why can’t Giambi just be moved with a lot of cash for some middle relief?

And then all of a sudden Damon’s contract looks pretty reasonable and he can moved for something useful.

Even if that doesn’t happen exactly that way, Damon’s value will almost certainly go up because of Hunter, Rowand and Jones. They all come with issues and will all be overpaid. And I think there are quite a few teams looking for a CF.

You’re right, B-Man, not for spare parts, but for anything remotely useful.  I would bet good money he’s not having that bounce-back year you’re imagining.

My quick guess is that Jones would be just as good as Damon in LF, if not better, with a stronger arm.

are we really advocating moving Andruw Jones for Melky’s sake?

Why can’t Giambi just be moved with a lot of cash for some middle relief?

blanket NTC.

“It’s pretty obvious which players we’re not going to trade,” the owner’s son said on Wednesday. “Chamberlain, Hughes and even Kennedy. Not for a position player.” -Hank

“I actually think that’s a pretty reasonable thing to say.  The reason you don’t trade those guys for a hitter is that the team is going to suck without pitching better, because the offense is likely to be a little worse even if you add Cabrera.”

Incorrect.  This is very worrisome for an owner to say.  It reflects a fundamental misconception of relative player worth.  Unwilling to trade a top pitching prospect for a position player?  That’s just stupid.  I’m hoping that it’s puffery and nothing more, but I’m concerned.

are we really advocating moving Andruw Jones for Melky’s sake?

I think if that were the situation, I would keep Melky there. You’d probably get the same net effect defensively, but Melky is familiar with CF and I think has a better ZR. I’ll look it up./

blanket NTC

Well, I know.. I meant, that should at least be an option that is looked into.  Why move Matsui, who can hit, for someone else and hope that what you get in return is of equal or greater value, when you can move Giambi, who should have more value to another team (because we use him as a bench player) and just get what you can for him (all the negotiating and price speculation stuff included.)

We have a bench player that would be a starter on other teams and issues with other parts of our lineup. The Yankees are going to spend $21M next year on Jason Giambi’s roster spot - why not at get something out of it?

If Jones can be had on the 1 year-prove-yourself-deal, then you can move Damon. 

And even if you move Damon, you’ve still got the Giambi-Matsui logjam at DH.  Which is why I think a Giambi + cash for prospects deal has to be explored. 

Let me say this.  My fear about getting Andruw Jones is it means Melky gets traded, not Damon.  And unless Melky is part of a package for MigCabrera, Santana or some other superstar, I don’t want to see him go.

Unwilling to trade a top pitching prospect for a position player?

That isn’t necessarily true in this situation.

Let’s say you trade Joba, who turns out to be an ace right of the gates.  The downgrade from his loss in the rotation, as it stands now, is Kei Igawa or Darrell Rasner. Yikes.

You trade Joba for Miguel Cabrera, who replaces your current option of Wilson Betemit. 

Is the net gain positive or negative? I would venture to guess it’s negative.

Maybe he just doesn’t understand the relative worth of players, but maybe he was referring to the fact that the Yankees now only have 5 starting pitchers that you’d like to be in the rotation, and the falloff to number 6 would be so huge that it would be hard to imagine any upgrade to our position players that would negate that.  And even if it does actually negate it, why do it if the upgrade is marginal? A bird in hand sort of situation..

And even if you move Damon, you’ve still got the Giambi-Matsui logjam at DH.  Which is why I think a Giambi + cash for prospects deal has to be explored.

Yes, this is what I meant.

Move Damon only if Jones can be had. That’s a net gain - Jones cost you money (his compensation level is Type B) and Damon would net you a lot in a CF market.

If Giambi would let himself be moved, move him for whatever you can get.  Unless there is some elaborate scheme to send him to boot camp and turn him into a Navy Seal in 08, he’s not the best way to utilize a roster spot/

Steve Lombardi brings up a good point ... Tejada ~ steroids.

Yeah j, I was typing and submitting my post as you were writing yours I guess. 

A Giambi trade and a Matsui trade are 2 different animals altogether.  Matsui is signed to a semi-reasonable contract, is relatively durable, and is under 35.  Giambi is none of those things, ergo we’d have to pay people to take him off our hands. 

Matsui’s never shown any inclination to play anywhere by NY, but if as someone has suggested, he’s jonesing for a reunion with Torre, that’s worth looking into.  It sure looks like their outfield is set, but there then again there’s all this chatter that the Dodgers are unhappy with Kemp.  Matsui for either Nomar or LaRoche (either way LA would probably have to kick in a prospect or bullpen arm).

I think I’d do Farnsworth plus Horne and some throw-in prospects for Tejada.  I don’t think I’d move any of the big five prospects (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Jackson, Tabata) for him.

In fact, here’s how I’d look at the off-season:

My number one priority would be to upgrade the team as best I can without giving up any of the big five prospects.  Joba and Hughes should be almost completely untouchable.  I would only talk about the other three if Miguel Cabrera (or someone of similar value) were coming in return.  Cabrera and Tejada would each represent credible replacements for ARod.  Not FULL replacements, but credible.

If I couldn’t get either of those two guys, I’d try to sign Andruw Jones to a one year deal, and trade for one of the next tier of third basemen:  Beltre, Rolen, Ensberg, Crede.  In this scenario, Damon or Matsui or Giambi would somehow have to go.  I’d also be looking into trading one or two of our young pitchers for a similar level young third baseman, like Andy LaRoche.

I’m running out of steam, but there are definitely some options out there.  And of course, bring back Pettitte, Mo, and Posada, though I wouldn’t go to five years on Jorge…

Very reasonable analysis IMO, SAS.  Agree on just about every point.

Some things to think about:

One team that needs a CF is Baltimore.  Melky or Damon would be a huge upgrade over Corey Patterson.  Melky you build with, Damon adds some inexpensive star power until a cheaper and younger alternative is available.  Damon may not have put Baltimore on his NT, but we have no way of knowing.

If Mazzone stays in Baltimore, Farnsworth becomes more attractive to them.

The Yankees pulled off a decent mutually beneficial trade last year.

There may be a good matchup here, intradivision or no.

I leave aside the question of whether Tejada’s any good any more, etc, just pointing out that there could be an alignment of interests here.

Unwilling to trade a top pitching prospect for a position player?  That’s just stupid.

It’s not stupid if your projected rotation for next year is long on upside and short on cerrtainty. And everyone keeps saying Kennedy is the pitcher to go, if everybody knows that Kennedy is the third best pitcher in the pack, why would Larry Beinfest not ask for the best or second-best pitcher or maybe both for what everyone is claiming to be a sure fire HOFer?

Baltimore’s CF situation crossed my mind.  Given that they have someone with a brain now making the baseball decisions, though, I don’t see them thirsting for Damon.  The whole idea behind trading Tejada in the first place would be for them to get younger and cheaper.

And Melky?  Maybe this is stubborn and unreasonable, but I don’t want to see Melky go (largely for reasons of defense…heaven help us with an OF of Hideki/Damon/Abreu) unless it’s a blockbuster for a can’t-miss star.  Melky for the 2nd tier of 3B’s doesn’t excite me.

“It’s pretty obvious which players we’re not going to trade,” the owner’s son said on Wednesday. “Chamberlain, Hughes and even Kennedy. Not for a position player.” -Hank

I find this comment reassuring.  The Yankees finally have three great pitching prospects, and an owner named Steinbrenner wants to keep them?  Fine by me.

The best way to make it through the playoffs is with dominant starting pitching, and dominant starters are so rarely available via trade or even free agency these days.  Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy are EXTREMELY valuable commodities.

Geez, Nate, that’s what I said.

MC, I was quoting you because I agreed with you… sorry if that wasn’t clear.

How about Jeter in the outfield????

I don’t want to see Melky go (largely for reasons of defense…heaven help us with an OF of Hideki/Damon/Abreu) unless it’s a blockbuster for a can’t-miss star.

I agree as well.  I would put Melky in with the big five prospects:  keep him unless there’s a young, big-time star coming back.  I would NOT trade Melky for Tejada.

Again, try to make upgrades by trading second-tier prospects and/or Giambi/Damon/Matsui/Farnsworth.  Make a conservative run at Miggy Cabrera.  Other wise, I’m looking forward to scrapping through 2008 and enjoying a full complement of up-and-coming homegrown talent in 2009 and beyond.

I would give up Kennedy and Melky and a lesser prospect for Miguel Cabrera if possible.  The 4 most similar players through age 24 are Aaron, Frank Robinson, Cepeda and Griffey.  On a ranked list of all time top players by OPS+ he was number 15.

My thought, re: Andruw Jones, has always been one year with a second year option. Yeah, some fools can come along and make an offer that boggles the mind. But it is worth the time to talk with Bora$$. Of course he will use the Yankees interest as leverage, but who cares.

Hasn’t Tejada’s power been on the decline?

Again, try to make upgrades by trading second-tier prospects

Depends on whom you classify as second-tier. Alan Horne has value, same with Jeff Marquez and eventually (when healthy) Humberto Sanchez. But if you’re talking about Jeff Karstens, Chase Wright and Tyler Clippard, then teams won’t be interested. Even franchises with poor farm systems have plenty of marginal guys like this. Their greatest value to the Yankees is to serve as minor league depth, or trade chips for spare parts - not impact players.

And personally, I’m gonna learn to stop worrying and love Jason Giambi. He’s due $21 mil plus a 2009 buyout for $5 mil. No one - I repeat - no one is gonna want a part of that buyout, never mind the salary. He’s gonna be a Yankee in 2008.

I’m considering Horne, Marquez, Sanchez, Garcia, White as second-tier.  Clearly, guys like Karstens, Wright, Clippard and Rasner are more like AAAA players than prospects at this point, which is not to say that they wouldn’t have some value at the bottom of some team’s pitching depth chart.

And don’t forget the Yankees still have guys like Brackman, Betances, and Melancon lurking in the system.  Not even sure what to make of those guys.

Hmmm, if only they offer “Slim Pickens” day at the Stadium, where a lucky fan gets to dress up in a cowboy hat and ride Jason Giambi as he gets dropped onto the field.

But on a more serious note, George is right Giambi is not going anywhere without a massive amount of cash along with him, massive.

Giambi is not going anywhere without a massive amount of cash along with him, massive.

So much cash that the commissioner might not approve of a trade. And you still would have had to convince Giambi to waive the NTC.

SAS, I think Melancon could really rise up the prospect rankings in 2008. He’s healthy and throwing in game action in the Dominican right now, and scouts and BA loved both his stuff and makeup coming out of college. Brackman I guess we’ll talk about in 2009. And Betances is so far away, I guess I’d say we’ll talk about him in 2009 too.

Yeah, my point was that a trade wouldn’t make sense, as it would essentially be a salary dump and the Yanks would just end up paying most of it anyways plus the whole NTC and approval part.