I don’t know the player they refer to but I think NoMaas is on the right track in advocating a trade for a CF prospect.  Lets hope Cashman can be creative and make a deal (the way he did w/Swisher) rather than just open up the check book (a Cameron trade).

of course, what happens if Teixeira accepts the $170M from the Sox?  the entire storyline changes.

but I think NoMaas is on the right track in advocating a trade for a CF prospect.

Why would you trade for a CF prospect when your farm system has no high-mid ceiling position player prospects except CF (Jackson and Gardner) and C (Montero)?

IMO, if they want to trade one of Nady/Damon/Matsui/Swisher, they should

1) See if Posada can catch full time - if not, you need a starting catcher.
2) Hold on to any of them until mid season and if they are expendable (because no one is injured) then you make a trade deadline deal for some prospects and try to recover from the 2008 draft year.
3) Hold on to all of them and hope that the 2010 FA market is weak and you can get compensation for Damon and Nady.

All of these are trumped by a no brainer trade offered right now. I think Milledge falls into that category, Dukes as well although the points about his chances of getting into trouble in NYC are valid. Revisiting DeJesus might make sense and there were also some rumors about Delmon Young in December.

Why would you trade for a CF prospect when your farm system has no high-mid ceiling position player prospects except CF (Jackson and Gardner) and C (Montero)?

Because Matsui and Damon will leave by the end of the season and would be great to have Jackson and Maxwell in the OF along with Swisher. That would be a cost controled OF which might allow the FO to sign Matt Holliday.

Because Matsui and Damon will leave by the end of the season and would be great to have Jackson and Maxwell in the OF along with Swisher

This assumes that Maxwell becomes a viable major league player.

What happens if Gardner proves he can handle CF (Juan Pierre-ish as someone mentioned), and Jackson also works out and plays a corner OF spot. Add Swisher, and there’s your OF. Gardner’s had all of 141 PA’s in the MLB.

With the DH spot opening up, the Yankees are in a nice to position to get some depth on the left side of the infield and plan on moving ARod or Jeter to DH.

That would be a cost controled OF which might allow the FO to sign Matt Holliday.

Where would Holliday play in that situation? You’ve already named 3 outfielders.

“Even if Smoltz and/or Penny recovers from their mutual shoulder woes and earn all the incentives on their $5 million base salaries, and Baldelli, who has been rediagnosed with a less-inhibiting muscle disorder than first feared, is able to earn his entire $5.25 million in performance bonuses by playing right and center field on a fairly regular basis, the Manny-less Sox no longer possess the same fear factor that resulted in two world championships in the last five years. “

Fear factor is apparently an important part of a World Series team. I wonder if its as important as grit, heart, and scrappiness.

Fear factor is apparently an important part of a World Series team. I wonder if its as important as grit, heart, and scrappiness.

It is to the HOF voters.

Lowe signs for $60/4.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2009/01/13/braves_lowe.html

That’s puts Pettitte’s fair market value right around $15M for a one year deal.

“It is to the HOF voters.”

Good point.

That’s puts Pettitte’s fair market value right around $15M for a one year deal.

Probably need to also factor in a bonus for signing a short-term deal, so maybe $16-17M would be fair market value.  I don’t see anyone going that high for him though.

And NoMaas, they wanted to sign Andruw Jones last year, didn’t they?

Because Matsui and Damon will leave by the end of the season and would be great to have Jackson and Maxwell in the OF along with Swisher. That would be a cost controled OF which might allow the FO to sign Matt Holliday.

Maxwell has only had 180PA at the AA level.  Other than a cup-of-coffee in 2007 with the Nationals, that’s the highest level he’s played at.  If the Yankees trade for him, I’d have to think they send him to Trenton.  It’s a big leap to have him starting in 2010.

Justin Maxwell

I don’t know anything about Maxwell, I just think that if we happen to trade Nady, it will be a good idea to trade him for an OF propsect.

Probably need to also factor in a bonus for signing a short-term deal, so maybe $16-17M would be fair market value.

Since your projection put Lowe slightly ahead of Pettitte I was giving him the same amout as his bonus for signing a 1 year deal.

I don’t see anyone going that high for him though.

After losing out on Lowe I could see the Mets offering him $15/1.  I could also see the Rangers (still his home state) offering him a 2 or 3 year deal a $12M-$13M.

I don’t know anything about Maxwell, I just think that if we happen to trade Nady, it will be a good idea to trade him for an OF propsect.

Like Jose Tabata?

and there were also some rumors about Delmon Young in December.

Seems like they’re just aiming for OFers with troubled history.
Dukes does seem to be a bit of a nutjob.  The fact that the Nats have a permanent police escort following him around is less than encouraging.

If we don’t sign Pettitte, how about signing Sheets to a 2 year deal worth 25 million?

Like Jose Tabata?

Yes. I would love to have Tabata back. Don’t you?

Sure, I wouldn’t mind having him back.  till think at the time of the trade it was a good one.

If we don’t sign Pettitte, how about signing Sheets to a 2 year deal worth 25 million?

The fact that teams have access to his medical reports and no one has offered him anything doesn’t give you a bit of pause?  And if they’re so concerned about payroll that they want to trade Nady and his $6-8M contract, why sign a big injury risk for twice that?

If the Yankees can’t bring back Pettitte, they may as well just go into the season with what they have.

The fact that the Nats have a permanent police escort following him around is less than encouraging.

That I did not know. Wow.

Seems like they’re just aiming for OFers with troubled history.

Was Young the guy who threw the bat at the umpire?

Was Young the guy who threw the bat at the umpire?

Indeed.  And he’s not a CF either.

And…the power drop is worrisome.

Was Young the guy who threw the bat at the umpire?

Sure was.

I don’t know anything about Maxwell, I just think that if we happen to trade Nady, it will be a good idea to trade him for an OF propsect.

I won’t argue that, I guess I would want it to be the right prospect.  Either a real high-ceiling guy (e.g. a 19 year-old who just destroyed A) or someone that provides depth for this year w/ a good chance to be productive next year (e.g. a 23 year-old who played good in a half-season of AAA).  Not sure who is out there that would fit that bill, or how available they are.  I don’t think Maxwell fits either.

Was Young the guy who threw the bat at the umpire?

We have a winner!

Was Young the guy who threw the bat at the umpire?

actually, that was David Ortiz.

what, ESPN has had that incident removed from the historical record?

Ortiz was also suspended for 5 games (later reduced to 3 games due to an appeal) after being ejected following an incident on July 16 in a game against the Angels in which he threw several bats onto the field that came close to hitting umpires Bill Hohn and Mark Carlson

I was initially pro-Nady/Swisher trade, now I see the wisdom of what appears to be the consensus opinion here.

It’s not about salary relief—the salary involved isn’t big enough.  It’s about using a surplus to fill a hole.  And the only hole is in CF.

No to Cameron for Nady.

Absolutely yes to Milledge for Nady. 

Don’t the Nats already have 4 legit starting OF’s?  Milledge, Dukes, Willingham, Kearns.  If they’re trading an OF, doubtful they’re looking to get another. 

Bowden has done stupider shit.

Smoltz at $5M (with Hughes, IPK, Aceves backing up) >>>>>>>>>> Pettitte at $15.

Smoltz won’t be ready to throw a ball till May or June.  Even then, he might not even be a starter, he might have to go back to the bullpen.  What the Yankees need in a 4/5 starter is someone who can reasonably be counted on to throw 180-200 innings and not suck.  Smoltz absolutely, positively, most certainly, was not someone who fit any sort of need for the Yankees.

I love that video. It really doesn’t seem like he’s all that upset, and walks off looking fairly calm, and then all of a sudden the bat comes flying in from off the screen.  Tremendous stuff.

Was Young the guy who threw the bat at the umpire?

what, ESPN has had that incident removed from the historical record?

That story was up for about a day before they removed it.  There was a great picture of him throwing, I believe, an entire bat rack of bats in the direction of the umpire.

It has since been removed from the internet forever.

DaPuj: you’re probably right.  I have an irrational love for Smoltz and I really hate seeeing him with a B hat.  The guys is a clear HOFer in my opinion and I detest anyone who prefers Glavine over him.  Glavine in purely a product of an irrational strike zone (think Eric Gregg and Livan Hernandez circa 1997).

Smoltz will be 42 by the time he comes back, he pitched 28 innings last year, he is coming of shoulder surgery, and he won’t be ready until June the earliest.  Besides, who knows how well he will come back from shoulder surgery at 42?  And if he does come back strong he will make $10M, not $5.5M.

I can see the argument that Pettitte isn’t worth his market value to the Yankees but that doesn’t mean all the crap that Pettitte has gotten for being greedy was justified.

Ortiz was also suspended for 5 games (later reduced to 3 games due to an appeal) after being ejected following an incident on July 16 in a game against the Angels in which he threw several bats onto the field that came close to hitting umpires Bill Hohn and Mark Carlson

I don’t remember this about Ortiz, but to be fair, Young literally launched the bat at the umpire and hit him square in the chest. This doesn’t sound too similar.

Jim Rice wearing a Heathcliff Huxtable sweater live on MLB TV right now.

Milledge, Dukes, Willingham, Kearns.

I think their plan is to use Willingham at 1B; anything from Nick Johnson is viewed as gravy.

I don’t remember this about Ortiz, but to be fair, Young literally launched the bat at the umpire and hit him square in the chest. This doesn’t sound too similar.

No, but it doesn’t mean it wasn’t wrong.  They key point is that you don’t remember it.  If A-Rod had pulled a stunt like that it would have lead every sportscenter for a month.
But since it was cuddly Ortiz, it gets buried.

This assumes that Maxwell becomes a viable major league player.

With the DH spot opening up, the Yankees are in a nice to position to get some depth on the left side of the infield and plan on moving ARod or Jeter to DH.

Well, if Maxwell does become a viable major league player and everything else turns out the way you describe, then they’d have a surplus of good, young, cheap outfielders that they could use to trade for that left-side infield depth you want.

I’m not that impressed with Maxwell.  He’s old for his level and trying to come back from multiple injuries.  At least he’s right-handed, though.  Anyway, in fairness to Nomaas, a big part of their argument for trading Nady for prospects is the need to open up a spot on the 40-man roster if they want to sign another free agent.  They mention Cruz specifically, but it would also apply to Pettitte obviously.

And if he does come back strong he will make $10M, not $5.5M.

this is the thing being overlooked.

if Smoltz DOES pitch, he gets $10M, but only for 2/3 of a season (i think).  which puts him at $15M…

the problem with Smoltz is that i think the yankees need that 5th starter EARLIER in the season rather than later.  isn’t the idea to keep Hughes down in AAA for a few months to work on his cutter? 

but yeah, i like Smoltz too.  just don’t think he was the best fit.

also, yes to Smoltz for the Hall.

But since it was cuddly Ortiz, it gets buried.

When Delmon Young puts up a few MVP-caliber seasons and wins a couple of rings, the only coverage you’ll see of his bat-throwing past will be in the context of the remarkable way that he’s turned his life around.  Probably by finding Jesus.  I’m not sure whether that will annoy me more or less than the Ortiz hagiography.

isn’t the idea to keep Hughes down in AAA for a few months to work on his cutter?

I know this is what some people here want to do, but is there any indication that it’s actually the plan?  Especially if no Pettitte?

I know this is what some people here want to do, but is there any indication that it’s actually the plan?  Especially if no Pettitte?

you are correct, there is no indication this is a plan shared by anyone connected with the Yankees.

The only thing I’ve read regarding Hughes is that, as of today, he will compete for the 5th rotation spot during Spring Training.

I know this is what some people here want to do, but is there any indication that it’s actually the plan?  Especially if no Pettitte?

Has there been any indication that they plan to use Hughes as the #5?  Everything I’ve been hearing is that Cashman wants to create competition to promote growth.  Even if Hughes is better in ST I don’t think it is out of the question that they claim Aceves “wins” the job because he is more polished.

Off topic, but we still have to come up with stuff to talk for the next 21/2 months, so:

Since Henderson was not votes unanimously for the HOF, who would you think has the best chance of getting all the votes for the first time, if it is ever going to happen? My guess are that the best shots would be Maddux in 5 years, God in 8 despite the relivers are not hof worthy, and, if both fail, ARod (only after he hits a WS walk off grand slam 2 years in a row, just so he can shed some of his unclutchiness tag).

Hmm…

I can certainly understand Pettitte’s agents pointing to Lowe’s deal and saying “come on now, Andy’s just as good* and you don’t have to give him 4 years.  Pony up.”

* - it’s close, and which guy you pick depends on just how much difference you see between the NL and the AL. 

I’d have no problem with the Yankees quietly going back to Pettitte’s people with a better (than $10MM) offer.  CC-Wang-Burnett-Pettitte-JobaHughes > CC-Wang-Burnett-Joba-Hughes, ya know?

The first unanimous HoFamer will be David Ortiz.

Seriously, though, I don’t think we’ll ever see it happen. If we DID, I guess I, too, would go with Maddux as being the best bet.

No way A-Rod beats even what Rickey got.

Yeah, but how much better?  I think the flexibility is valuable too.  If Pettitte would put them over their budget and would basically prevent them from mid-season acquisitions, I’m not sure that’s worth it.  That’s basically the problem for Pettitte.  He’s not as valuable to the Yanks as he is on the FA market, so he’s going to have to open up other possibilities. 

Let the holes develop, then try to fix them mid-season.

I have come to the conclusion that Steve Goldman of the YES Pinstripe Bible and Peter Abraham are the same guy. There is a sriking resemblance and both are good writers with sort of a superior than thou opinion/styles.  Still thinking about Peter’s absolute stance that Tex will not be a Yankee. I’m continuing to relish that one.
There is one flaw in my analysis: Goldman wanted Tex but Abraham said it couldn’t happen and that we fans were dreaming. But after watching 24 last night, perhaps it’s just a ruse to confuse the reader.

If guys like Ripken and Gwynn with unassailable credentials who played their entire career with one team and never had a hint of scandal associated with their names can’t get 100% of the votes, then I’m pretty confident that no one ever will.  I guess even Maddux pissed off somebody with a vote somewhere along the line.

I have come to the conclusion that Steve Goldman of the YES Pinstripe Bible and Peter Abraham are the same guy.

No way.  When he puts his mind to it, Goldman writes prose that Abraham can’t even dream about.  OTOH, Abraham actually talks to players, coaches, scouts, GMs, etc.  They might share a certain kind of arrogance, but they have little else in common.

have come to the conclusion that Steve Goldman of the YES Pinstripe Bible and Peter Abraham are the same guy.

That is a serious insult to Goldman.  He is leaps and bounds ahead of PeteAbe, both in terms of writing and analytical ability.  Abraham is great for his access and quick reporting, but his analysis is atrocious.  And let’s not forget the strange vendetta he has against Girardi.  Although Goldman does seem to have his own idee fixe in the shape of Xavier Nady…

...and I’ve been scooped by MC. Rats!

I can certainly understand Pettitte’s agents pointing to Lowe’s deal and saying “come on now, Andy’s just as good* and you don’t have to give him 4 years.  Pony up.”

And I could certainly see Cashman saying, “Look, if you want market value, you should go out on the market and get it.”  Who knows what’s really going on with either side here, but I just haven’t gotten the impression that the Yanks’ position is that Pettitte isn’t worth a penny more than $10M on the open market.  It seems more like “This is what would work for us; we hope it works for you too, but if not, then best of luck and all that.”

...and I’ve been scooped by MC. Rats!

Well, yeah, but you used French.

Does anyone think Pete was getting in on the ice-cream that used to be available in the clubhouse, and Girardi’s ban of it is the source of the ire?

Beaten to it.  In short, Goldman >> Abraham. 

DaPuj,

I hear you re: mid-season flexibility.  Problem is I don’t know what the Yankees’ budget really is, so I don’t know if signing Pettitte for $X puts them close to, at, or over it.

Likely “holes” that might open up:

1) Centerfield (already a hole, and we’re hoping Gardner or a resurgent Melky can plug it)
2) Catcher (what if Jorge can’t throw?)
3) Pitching

Having money availble for mid-season means you’re thinking of a trade that is a salary dump by another team (for instance, the Brewers dumping Mike Cameron on us if they’re out of it and they’ve forgiven Cashman for being a bad man and all that).  CF, I can think of Cameron.  Who else?  Catcher… um, I can’t think of any potential “salary dump” situations.  I can think of trades, but those trades would likely involve our farm system being raped by another team in exchange for a good young catcher.  Pitching is a problem Pettitte helps solve.

So, um, yeah.  I still want him on the team.

yankeemonkey,

You think Goldman has it out for Nady?  I got the impression that Goldman has him down as a part-time player on a championship team (or a regular for a lesser club)... a guy who has questionably on-base ability and pretty clearly had a flukey year last season.  I think Goldman is worried that the Yankees look at 2008 Nady and think that’s the player they have.

Has it in for Nady.  Not has it out for him.  No edit feature makes baby Jesus cry.

While I agree that the likelihood of Nady repeating his ‘08 is rather small, I do think that Goldman is a bit over the top when it comes to judging Nady’s usefulness to the club.

You would think people who’ve watched a team suffer injuries that derailed their chances at a postseason berth last season would see that Nady is a useful player to have around. 

Even if we ignore last season completely, he hit .274/.330/.457 over around 1330 PA from 2005-2007, .319/.393/.488 vs. lefties, and can play adequately at three different positions.  No, he’s probably not as good as he was in 2008, but he’s the type of player that good teams have.  It’s called depth.  For a team that’s spending $200 million dollars with one goal in mind, and with NOTHING on the farm that could fill the positions Nady could fill if someone gets hurt, it makes little sense to trade him.  Especially when you have to count on Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon staying healthy if you do.

He’s not going to get you a top-flight prospect, so better to hang on to him, hope he has another decent year and makes Type-A.  He’s a Boras guy, so he’s not going to accept arbitration most likely.

Yeah, that’s pretty much the way I see it.  Nady is useful depth.  If everything goes exactly the way I hope (everyone is healthy, Swisher rebounds, Melky or Gardner manages respectability in CF), then he’s one of the best (if not the best) 4th/platoon OFers in the game.  If things don’t go that well, he’s the only thing standing between the Yankees as a replacement level OFer (or two, if the CFers fall on their faces).

Plus, you can construct plausible scenarios in which Xavier Nady is better than I suspect he is (the whole discussion we had about his platoon splits essentially vanishing over the past 2 seasons).

Keep him.

Just out of curiosity, how does AJax project by mid-season?  He’s at .253/.305/.362 now, but with a normal arc would he not count as depth in center sometime this year?

Regarding A-Jack, I’m not sure how to do a mid-season projection on a young player.  I guess you could look at his percentile projections. 

80%: .276/.342/.419, 16.6 BRAR/650
65%: .265/.323/.390, 7.7 BRAR/650
Base:.253/.305/.362, -0.9 BRAR/650
35%: .241/.287/.333, -8.5 BRAR/650
20%: .230/.269/.304, -14.4 BRAR/650

65% seems reasonable, 80% is probably a stretch.

CF depth wasn’t really what I was thinking though. An injury to any of Matsui, Damon, Swisher or Teixeira and Nady could fill in adequately for all of them, although obviously he’s a downgrade from Teixeira, it’s the downgrade from a 4.5 WAR player to say a 2.5 WAR player, instead of a 4.5 WAR player to a 0 WAR player.  He’s probably less than a windowngrade over a full season from any of the others.

My feeling is that unless the Yankees can get Milledge for Nady, they’ll essentially end up with another Gardner-type player before Gardner ever gets a chance to prove himself.
Unless swept off their feet, the FO should relax until the season develops. As of now they have the flexibility to manage many problems that may come up (injuries, poor performance, etc).

I had in mind to project him for 2010 then split the difference, or anyway take the age factor for +1 year and halve it.

“Window-‘n’-grade”?

I had in mind to project him for 2010 then split the difference, or anyway take the age factor for +1 year and halve it.

Ok, I can take a stab at that a little later and see what it spits out.

“Window-’n’-grade”?

There are a few quirks with the software we use for this site.  One is that the phrase win_downgrade (without the _) gets combined into one word.  Not sure why.

I’d rather not rush the one high-level position prospect in the system, ya know?

Maybe I’m just tired of the Yankee hype machine (Eric Duncan?), and maybe it’s because I’m a pessimist by nature, but I’m not counting on anything from Jackson anytime soon. The kid sucked major balls in the AFL this year. Am I the only one who thinks it’s dangerous to assume he’ll be a factor even in 2010?

If I’m looking at him as depth, rushing and assumptions aren’t necessarily relevant.

Incidentally, is there clear evidence for “rushing”?  Without a random-selection control-group study I’d think this would be difficult to show.

Without a random-selection control-group study I’d think this would be difficult to show.

Definitely. It could possibly maybe someday happen, using some combination of minor league levels and the independent leagues. (not the major leagues, of course)

Can someone explain the Yankees bond situation?  Are these “tax-exempt bonds” they’re asking for bonds that the Yankees would sell and that the holders wouldn’t have to pay a tax on the interest, or are they bonds that the government would sell, and give the proceeds to the Yankees?

D, is there a difference in the situation you describe where it’s the Yankees selling it or the government selling it?

And yes, the bondholders won’t have have to pay tax on the interest.

Basically, who has to pay back the principle and the interest. Sorry, I wasn’t clear.  Is this a total hand-out, or more like a tax break that would reduce revenue?

Anti-Yankee bias is getting ridiculous.  The Yanks are like the new George Bush- any two-bit politician trying to make a name for himself as a Populist will pile on knowing how unpopular they are with everyone but Yankee-loyalists.  The misreporting and laziness is truly amazing, although it shouldn’t be by now.  I think this stadium finance issue needs to be addressed on this blog.  Unlike most stadium deals, the city is NOT paying for the stadium.  They are simply allowing The Yankees to borrow at a lower rate.  The reason they can borrow at this lower rate is because the purchaser of their bonds is exempt from paying federal, state, and local taxes on the INTEREST income.  Furthermore, because most of the bond buyers are likely not NY residents, the lost revenue on the 3.6% tax rate on the interest in very small, much smaller than the direct $ subsidy almost every other team received from their taxpayers.  Had The Yankees built their new stadium in NJ, the taxpayer wouldn’t have one more dollar than they currently have (if you assume they still built the MTA station, demolished the old stadium, etc.).  This is merely part of doing business in high-tax NY.  It shouldn’t be the case but singling out The Yankees when they have already committed to this project is absurd.  Change the system.

For a good look at the YS bond situation, check out River Ave. Blues.  Ben has been on top of the stadium financing shenanigans for a while now.

Okay, thanks for the info.  That’s what I was assuming was the case, just wanted to be clear.  A tax-break is a tax-break, obviously, but it’s my understanding that the city has a certain amount that they’re allowed to grant in the way of tax-exempt bonds.  So it’s going to go to someone.  Obviously an argument could be made for someone else who might be more deserving.

The Yankees are asking for another $259 million in tax-exempt bonds and $111 million in taxable bonds, on top of $940 million in tax-exempt bonds and $25 million in taxable bonds already granted for the $1.3 billion Bronx stadium.

-AP

How many irate people do you think assume this means that the government is giving the Yankees an additional $260M on top of $940M already given to the Yankees?

I think it’s the Yankee paying the principal and interest. The tricky part is whether the revenue stream is specified for paying back the principal and interest, such as targeting stadium parking, or tickets, or whatever.  I’m guessing it’s not that important from your question, as well as it likely is just general Yankee revenue.

And for the tax exempt interest part. Let’s say typical investor wants 7K interest from 100K bond (roughly 7%). For taxable, what Yankee will have to pay, in fact, is like 9K or 9% interest instead, to offset the taxes the investor will have to pay to get the 7K interest they want. Likewise, 2K will go into the government’s coffers. With tax exempt, the Yankee will only pay 7K. Investors won’t lose out because that is the amount that he or she or it was hoping to get regardless. Yankees make out because it’ll be paying less. And the government will lose out, because no tax revenue.

This is of course oversimplified, and post #73 adds some perspective. And the nature of tax exemption is likely not something you were wondering about, but general info.

How many irate people do you think assume this means that the government is giving the Yankees an additional $260M on top of $940M already given to the Yankees?

That’s true.  But those folks probably think HRs, RBIs, and AVG are the holy trinity too.

those folks probably think HRs, RBIs, and AVG are the holy trinity too.

Indoubabidably.  My problem isn’t with those folks, it’s with a media that almost seems to be deliberately failing to clear up that simple point.  Having a vested interest in keeping the public riled up isn’t a good thing.

The reporting on this is as blatently biased as saying “but the Yankees just spent $400M+ on salaries this year.”  Uh, no- the salary expense is spread over a number of years; its not like they would have an unpaid replacement in the subsequent years had they signed all of these guys to one year deals.

Uh, no- the salary expense is spread over a number of years

As is the lost of tax revenue too.  Though I guess it doesn’t really matter much as the point is not to report but to sell ads/rile up.

And I don’t mind being cynical and wanting to see the percentage of public/private bonds that go to other business ventures (replacement level bond issuer). If it’s not to Yankee fat cats then probably some other fat cat.

Now, if it means us NY’ers don’t get clean water or softball fields, uh, I probably wouldn’t blame it on the Yankees either way.

I just like that the Steinbrenners are completely crazy, want to win all the time (to a fault, really), and want to present the Yanks as a “class” organization.  That means money money money.  But their monomania for winning means it flows through their hands.  They don’t grasp at it.  Of course the value of the Yankee franchise is off the hook and it may well be that all they want is to eventually sell it for however many billions, but if that’s the case, they’ve played the off-the-rocker family REALLY well for quite a long time now.  I honestly believe that no ownership interest in baseball wants to win - beyond simple business - as badly as the Steinbrenners do.  They’re bloody rabid.

Pags - I sure hope you aren’t trying to defend the Yanks asking for government help.  They have no reason - none - to ask the government for help in raising revenues.

People are incensed at the bond issue because the Yanks make no qualms about doling out hundreds of millions in new player contracts, but turn around and ask for help to pay for their new stadium.  If the Yanks can afford to spend on contracts, they can surely spend to build a stadium that will “print money.”  (Sorry, I’ve heard that reported over and over again.)

The whole new stadium is a comedy of errors and corruption.  Always has been.  When the Yanks gave the stadium a face-lift back in the 1970s, it cost over 160 million.  Baltimore’s Camden Yards, built almost two decades later, cost only 110 million.

I have a big problem with private corporations using the government to get lower interest rates.  Especially corporations like the Yankees: completely unessential to the U.S. economy as a whole and perfectly capable of borrowing the money they need on their own.

Not only have the Yankees asked for and received ample financial help in the funding of the new stadium—public funds—but they also lied and cheated to get it.

I’ve said this before here: we’d all prefer to respect the Yankees organization and love the new stadium.  It just seems that one has to be in serious denial in order to do so.

Yeah, I definitely think there’s a middle ground here.  Obviously the Yankees are getting breaks than most other corporations could only dream of, and those breaks are of dubious (at best) value to the general population.  But I do have a problem with the reporting of this, and how it seems to be very biased in its lack of clear explanation of what’s going on, it doesn’t delineate exactly the benefits the Yankees are getting from the government.

Dang, so sorry I missed the boat today. I had a soapbox ready for just this topic…

And that Ortiz bat-throwing incident was bullshit, standard throw-gear-on-the-field stuff. I remember it well. I’ve seen more violent behavior on Little Bear.

I didn’t know this was a fucking Bloomberg News blog.  Could we please go back to talking about baseball?

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:fVjdlPD_j8kJ:saveourparks.blogspot.com/2008/07/tax-exempt-aid-for-new-yankee-stadium_20.html+PILOT+yankees+levine&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Toward the bottom of that webpage there is a good description of the PILOT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) by which the Yankees (and sneaky Mutts) repay the bonds to the city who repays the loan to the Feds.  As far as I understand, since the city owns the new Yankee Stadium and the Yankees therefor don’t pay taxes on it the Yankees use their revenues to pay the city the exact amount needed to repay the approximately $1.2B that the city borrowed from the US govt under this program.

The PILOT is a way for The Yankees to borrow at a cheaper rate because the (private) buyer of the bonds wont be paying taxes on the interest and thus are more content with a lower interest payment.  In return The Yankees agree to vastly overpay for the project by using local Union labor, local suppliers, etc. And to pay for maintainence of teh facility (currently teh city pays).  NYC loses very little, as does NY state.  The Fed are probably the biggest loser in terms of lost taxes but they would have just given that money to defunct auto companies or maybe CITI. 

Anyone who has done anything in real estate in NY knows that the cost of development is prohibitive if you don’t “play ball” with the various government agencies and Unions.  The fact is, doing business in NY has always been ripe with red tape, corruption, and extortion.  Ideally we wouldn’t have this hybrid Socialist/Corporatist system but it is what it is and The Yanks and Mutts navigated the process just like hundreds of other “non-profits,” corporations, developers, etc.  If this results in a revolution against this awful, inefficient system- great.  But I doubt it will do anything but elevate the status of that Charleton Brodsky and reinforce the image of The Yankees as a villain.

I’ve seen more violent behavior on Little Bear.

i wasn’t trying to imply that it was as violent as Young.  i was just making a joke about ESPN and their Red Sox love.

Yatt: they are not asking for help- these tax free bonds were agreed to when the deal was done.  Without such bonds it’s very possible that there would be an empty hole in the South Bronx, and a new stadium in NJ.  Should government cronies be able to choose which teams, corporations, real estate developers, etc. are able to raise money at a better rate than someone going to the private market?  No, but the brilliant politicians and bureaucrats have dreamed up these plans and businessmen will play by those rules.  The time to complain was in 2006 when this deal was struck.

Unfortunately, if Brodsky is successfull in getting The Yankees bonds tax-free status revoked (while the entirety of sports gets direct subsidies and tax-breaks), this will have major consequences for the Yankees on the field.  You guys like CC, Teix, and AJ, right?

Maybe I’m just tired of the Yankee hype machine (Eric Duncan?), and maybe it’s because I’m a pessimist by nature, but I’m not counting on anything from Jackson anytime soon. The kid sucked major balls in the AFL this year. Am I the only one who thinks it’s dangerous to assume he’ll be a factor even in 2010?

I think you make a solid point here. The verdict is out on AJ as a hitter IMO. Hitting .270 and a lackluster AFL performance doesn’t project too a ready for the majors profile anytime soon. Yes, he’s young and yes he can improve, but I believe your point is valid as we have heard the same arguments made for Eric Duncan among others for years. The he’s still young theory can still be applied to Melky and Gardner as well. At least they have some mlb experience. I think AJ’s AAA season ahead will be very telling and until he gets 400 abs, its fair game to not assess him as a can’t miss just yet.

Eric Duncan and Austin Jackson have almost nothing in common.

Eric Duncan and Austin Jackson have almost nothing in common.

Both US citizens born after 1980 drafted by the Yankees?  That’s something, but not much.

Personally, I feel Duncan was rushed through the organization.  I have no idea if he would be poised to be a productive major-league hitter right now if he wasn’t; perhaps he would have an OPS of .750 last year in AAA instead of .661.  But after struggling in his first season of AA ball at the age of 20 (.734 OPS), he should have been left down for a FULL season of AA.  After they sent him back down at the age of 21 he had a good half-season, but they should have started him there in 2007. 

Doesn’t matter now; 2009 will be his last year at AAA for the Yankees I think.  He’ll either start hitting and they’ll find a place for him on the big-league roster, or he won’t and he’ll be cut.

i wasn’t trying to imply that it was as violent as Young.  i was just making a joke about ESPN and their Red Sox love.

Oh, I know. Let’s see, Bristol is just east of the Maginot Line, right?