It really seems like the fact that ARod/Boras wouldn’t even sit down with the Yankees means its not about money, it’s about getting out of NY, but I could be wrong.

At the same time, the Times is reporting that Minaya’s planning to discuss A-Rod with David Wright.  That’ll scare the bejaysus out of some Yankee fans.  (Not me.  I’d be amused if he winds up on the Mets.)

But if Arod stays in NY, it’ll ruin my dream scenario, in which . . .

Torre’s Dodgers, with A-Rod playing 3b, face off against Girardi’s Yankees in the World Series.  Despite A-Rod’s valiant, clutch, post-season heroics, the Yankees prevail, as Series MVP Wilson Betemit hits a three-run HR in the 8th inning off an obviously exhausted Scott Proctor.

In other news, the Elias ratings just came out and guess who is a type B free agent - our very own good friend Eric Gagne.

Do the Sox even offer him arbitration?  Wouldn’t his salary be higher with arbirtation based on the last couple of years, as opposed to what most teams are going to see with his cooked arm?  (That made sense in my head).

I hope the Yankees really stick it to A-Rod and offer him 21 million or so in arbitration. Not a penny more. It’s obvious that he doesn’t want to be part of the Yankees. Therefore, in the event that he does return, the media will have a field day, and A-Rod will be ridiculed and chastised beyond belief. I don’t want him back at all. Good riddance.

Gagne wants to be a closer, a role he most certainly will not have with the Sox.  Thus, he will be offered arbitration and will refuse.  At the time Theo worked the deal, he claimed the draft pick compensation (presumably for a Type A) was an aspect he considered very important.

I feel like Gagne’s not as awful as his untimely implosions suggest.  Even as he was awful with the Sox he was striking out batters at a great clip (22 in 18 ip, 6 in 4 in the playoffs). 

It does suck for Theo, but he’s been fortunate enough elsewhere (i.e Okajima, Lowell’s resurgence, Schilling’s ongoing success, no takers for Manny when he’s been on waivers repeatedly).

Actually if A-Rod would go to the Mets, I’d consider that ideal.  We’d get to face him every season and that could make for some fun theatre, but beyond those six games, the performance of his team will have no impact.

As for Sean’s theory—I do think the door is open for A-Rod to return, but not via arbitration.  It was reported that the Yankees were prepared to extend him for something like 5 years at $30MM a year, which would effectively mean his contract was $230MM/8 years.  Less the Texas money, that’s basically $210MM/8 years.

So if A-Rod finds that the market isn’t bearing his desired megadeal, then Cash and the Steinbrothers can offer 8/210 and just spin it as, “hey we’re still paying the exact same amount that we were prepared to.”  But if he can find that team willing to pony up $250MM or $300MM, then the Yankees should/will stick to their guns, and he’s out.

It’s definitely an interesting topic, Sean, and thanks for bringing it up, but I really don’t see this situation as a likely one.

Maddux with the Braves was different, in the sense that Maddux clearly didn’t WANT to leave Atlanta, they just didn’t think they could afford him. Here, A-Rod certainly appears to WANT to leave the Yankees.

That being said, I’d absolutely love it if this were the case. What an ideal situation for the Yankees - get A-Rod for a year and then get the chance to prepare for 2009 KNOWING he won’t be there. Heck, they could even trade him if they wanted to.

A Phil, there are rules about what teams can offer—only so much % pay cut.  I’m not sure if they can go as “low” as 21.  Anyone know the answer?  Also, A-Rod is sure to file at like 32, and win.

Sean, you paint this scenario as a sort of Plan B for Alex and Scott.  If they don’t get the big long term deal they want, they can always come running back to the Yankees and start over next year.  At best, that qualifies as Plan C. 

Plan B would be to have Alex become the ultimate hired gun and go for one year deal.  A one year, no commitment to pay when he’s 44 years old deal might run $40 million.  Over the next five years or so Alex stands to make more by selling his services each year to the team that is one superstar away from a championship.  The Angels/Dodgers/Cubs/Mets and anyone else with enough money to finance their dreams can each take turns overpaying for their strategically placed “go for it” year.

And…

The only way I see Alex coming back to the Yankees is if he fires Boras and disavows everything he did last week.  Not very likely, but it makes reconciliation at least a possibility. 

My absurd scenario:

MLB is proud to announce the approval of a new owner for the Florida Marlins.  The Miami city council and the Florida legislature have approved a new stadium deal that will save baseball in South Florida.  Hey, it worked out pretty well for Mario Lemieux.

I hope the Yankees really stick it to A-Rod and offer him 21 million or so in arbitration.

And if he asked for $40M, which number does the arbitrator pick?  I doubt it will come to this, but I have a hard time believing that Rodriguez, coming off the year he just had, would not get the highest salary in MLB (by far) via arbitration.

A Phil, there are rules about what teams can offer—only so much % pay cut.  I’m not sure if they can go as “low” as 21.  Anyone know the answer?

The 20% maximum pay cut does not apply to free agents.  It is only for players who have less than six years of service time; guys like Betemit, Bruney, Wang and Cano.  Not that Wang and Cano will be getting pay cuts.

Hey, it worked out pretty well for Mario Lemieux.

But it’s against the rules in MLB.

Over the next five years or so Alex stands to make more by selling his services each year to the team that is one superstar away from a championship.

OTOH, he risks every penny of future earnings every time he steps on the field.  Or crosses the street, for that matter.

8/200 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1/40

By the way, I just noticed that Mike Sweeney filed for free agency.  Obviously, the guy has had trouble staying healthy the past two years, but he’s a right-handed bat with power and a career OPS+ of 119.  If he can be had for a one year deal, he’d make plenty of sense as a righty platoon partner for the DH role and pinch hitter off the bench.

If he can be had for a one year deal, he’d make plenty of sense as a righty platoon partner for the DH role and pinch hitter off the bench.

I’d rather have a righty platoon partner for 3B and a lefty platoon partner for 1B.  You can only blow so many roster spots on DHs.

Also, Steve Goldman has pointed out that Andy LaRoche is currently blocked at 3B in LA by Nomar.  Given Torre’s preference for vets, perhaps Cashman can pry him away.

the Elias ratings just came out

Hey, IE, did you happen to notice what Vizcaino was classified as?

I’m in agreement with EB in LA. The only way A-Rod somehow winds up back in New York is if he fires Boras and comes crawling back, saying this is where he wants to play and everything that happened was his agent’s doing. Odds on that happening? The same as getting kicked to death by a duck.

BTW, my emnity for Boras grows. He took a shot at Mariano yesterday, suggesting Alex would have his ring by now if Mo could have closed out Boston in game 4 back in 2004. Ugh, what an asshole. It’s always someone elses fault.

Sign A-Rod, you give him what you want.  You don’t save money by not signing ARod, you save money by not signing Clemens for 1 million a start, or Womack for two years, or Pavano for 4.

BTW, my emnity for Boras grows. He took a shot at Mariano yesterday, suggesting Alex would have his ring by now if Mo could have closed out Boston in game 4 back in 2004. Ugh, what an asshole. It’s always someone elses fault.

Tell me what is incorrect about this statement please? I am a huge supporter of Mo, but he walked Kevin Millar.  You just can’t do that.

BTW, my emnity for Boras grows. He took a shot at Mariano yesterday, suggesting Alex would have his ring by now if Mo could have closed out Boston in game 4 back in 2004. Ugh, what an asshole. It’s always someone elses fault.

Well, Mike and The Mad Dog were saying the same thing on the radio yesterday as well. But has anyone noticed that Austin Jackson is hitting .289 in the Hawaiian League? I’d hate to see the Yankees sign a long term contract to either Aaron Rowand or Torii Hunter and then realize that, whoops, there might be a cheaper and better option down in their own farm system by the middle of next season. I can live with an outfield of Abreu, Melky, Damon/Matsui for the entire 2008 season.

the Red Sox won the WS.  i doubt they really care about losing the draft pick from Gagne.  it was an awful trade, yet it didn’t matter.

in fact, almost none of Theo’s big moves this past year worked out like they were supposed to, but they got red-hot in October and steamrolled to a title.

there’s not much more to it.

Vizcaino is a type B.

You know, Mileskey is a troll and all, but it’s real easy to forget that there are limits, even for the Yankees.  The payroll was $208M last year, which cost them over $230M with tax.  Subtract Clemens, Mientkiewicz, Vizcaino, and a few other small bits, and you’re down to maybe $185M.  If you bring back Mo, Po, Pettitte and Abreu, plus pay the arbitration eligible guys and fill out the bench, you’re back to around $195M.  Subtract Rodriguez and you’re just under $180M.  Add him back at what the market will bear, and without the Texas subsidy, and you’re up to $210M or more.  Now the tax threshold does increase to $155M next year, so the total layout would probably be about the same $230M as it was in 2007, but maybe that simply isn’t sustainable in the long run.  It just might be possible that there are perfectly rational business reasons for the Yankees to not pursue Rodriguez on the open market.

he walked Kevin Millar

Shit happens.  Boras might as well blame Tony Clark for hitting a ball a little too hard.

I am a huge supporter of Mo, but he walked Kevin Millar.  You just can’t do that.

Yes, he did. And then the Yankees had extra innings and three more subsequent games to do something about it, and A-Rod responded by doing almost nothing. And when he had the chance to help the team in the 2005, 2006 and 2007 post season’s, he responded by doing what?

I’m not denying what happened to Mo that night - but A-Rod did little to help the team’s postseason cause afterwards. So for Boras to point at Mo and say, “well, there’s your reason Alex has never won a WS” is completely disingenuous. It’s one of an infinite number of reasons.

He didn’t say that is the reason, he said he would already have won if Mo closes the game.

I love Mo, love him to death, one of my all time favorites, but if he closes that game, Arod has a ring. 

He hit well enough this post-season. Not his fault Jeter made 17 outs in 17 PAs.

He didn’t say that is the reason, he said he would already have won if Mo closes the game.

I haven’t seen/heard the actual quote from Boras, so it’s hard to put stuff in context.  If, for example, Boras was responding to a question on ARod not winning the series, pointing out that Mo not getting the save is perfectly valid.  Especially if he is pointing it out in the matter of circumstance, i.e. not that it’s Mo’s “fault” but that shit happens.

If on the other hand he is trying to shift/place blame, he is being an asshole, and not helping his client.  It reinforces the “24 and 1” perception of ARod.

You know, Mileskey is a troll and all

Disagreeing with people does not make them a troll.  there is a great amount of group think on these boards, which is a shame.  I love the writing here, and I love SG analysis, but I know a lot of Yankee fans who don’t post here because of the tone on the boards.  Frankly I get a little tired of it myself.

You owe me an apology, and this branding of trolls people who think differently should stop.

This is hilarious, via WW:

  On Sunday, after SI.com reported that Rodriguez would opt out of his contract and become a free agent, New York Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner told the New York Times, “Does he want to go into the Hall of Fame as a Yankee, or a Toledo Mud Hen?”

  The Mud Hens figured they should give him that opportunity.

  Dan Royer, a graphic designer for the team, created a mock Hall of Fame bust, with Rodriguez wearing a Toledo hat.

  The Mud Hens also prepared a letter that they plan to mail to Rodriguez’s agent, Scott Boras. Included is a contract offer with incentives if he hits 75 home runs per season and leads Toledo to 10 straight Governors’ Cup titles.

  There is a catch, of course.

  The letter includes a reminder that Mike Hessman – the International League’s reigning Most Valuable Player – is the Mud Hens’ everyday third baseman.

  “We think that it would be a healthy competition at spring training between the two of them,” it reads. “Would your client be willing to play a different position?”

As for the ARod on a 1 year deal via arbitration, I just don’t see it happening. It’s too risky for him.  Andruw Jones dropped to a type B free agent after laying an egg in 1 season.  Rodriguez’s value is so high right now, he’d be pretty stupid to accept arbitration unless the deals he was being offered were really lowball.  Some GM out there will want him for $230-270/8-10 or something.  Let’s just hope its not the Dodgers so we can get that extra pick, and it’s not the Red Sox so we don’t end up with 85 wins next year.

#25 - I haven’t seen/heard the actual quote from Boras, so it’s hard to put stuff in context.

From the NY Daily News, the Boras quote is:

The question posed to Boras was why Rodriguez’s regular-season numbers haven’t translated to postseason success.

“That’s a characterization that, when you look at the data, is frankly inaccurate,” Boras said. “If you look at Alex’s first season in New York, I believe he was 7-for-16 with two home runs and five RBIs going into Game 4 in Boston.

“The brilliant Mariano Rivera, probably the only flaw he’s made in a historic career over the postseason, if he got those three outs (in the ninth inning of Game 4), Alex would have been in the World Series and he would have been held to have a great postseason.
“When you look at his records with Seattle - and even this year - you’re talking about a player whose postseason records are really up there with many of the superstars of the game.”

this branding of trolls people who think differently should stop

I didn’t brand you a troll for disagreeing.  I actually agree with some of the things you post.  I branded you a troll because you are consistently obnoxious for no apparent reason.  Tone that down and I’ll gladly give you that apology.

probably the only flaw he’s made in a historic career over the postseason

I seem to recall one or two others.

I’ve “known” John for years, and he’s one of the last people I’d ever categorize as obnoxious. 

But he’s wrong about Rodriguez.

Tell me what is obnoxious about #19.

#28 - Thanks.  Based on that, I don’t think there was any ill-will intended.  To me, he was pointing out that his client’s lack of post-season success is as much a matter of “luck” as anything.  You can jump on Boras for a lot of things, but I don’t think you can for that statement.

I barely “know” John Milesky at all.  I’m sure I have disagreed with him on several occasions, but I can’t really recall ever thinking of him as obnoxious.  He’s probably had a few posts that come off that way, but haven’t we all.

And FWIW, I don’t think #19 was the least bit obnoxious.  He said “please”, and it didn’t come off as sarcastic.

And FWIW, I don’t think #19 was the least bit obnoxious.

When I read John’s posts, I picture him with a monkey on his shoulder and an organ grinder, so, to me, they are hilarious and not obnoxious.

I picture John as a beautiful woman.

Come on, I can’t be the ONLY one!

John M:

What boards DO the people post at who WON’T post here?  I look at a bunch, post at a few, just wondering what “atmosphere” is preferred—because I think this is the best forum.

/shameless plug

We just lost our best player ad our longtime manager and our arch-rivals dominated the post-season.  We’re all a bit testy.

Go Yankees!

I agree with those who say A-Rod HAS to fire Boras if he wants to come back to the Yankees and not be killed by the fans and media (well, killed even more by the fans and media).
I hate to say this, but WHY would A-Rod want to come back? His time with the Yankees was bad since Jeter refused to move to 3rd base to make way for a gold glover. The fans booed him for having a good season instead of a great one, and the media keep focusing on a few games instead of what he has done in the regular season.

Also, Steve Goldman has pointed out that Andy LaRoche is currently blocked at 3B in LA by Nomar.  Given Torre’s preference for vets, perhaps Cashman can pry him away.

Actually, why not Nomar for the Yankees?  He’s a righty and even in a terrible 2007 he hit .303/.342/.383 against lefties.  Just the year before that he hit .341/.420/.600 vs lefties.

He already has experience playing 1B and 3B.  Between Duncan, Giambi, Betemit, and Nomar, you pretty much have all the “handedness” that you need between first and third base.  He has one more year on his current contract for about $9MM or $10MM, small change for the Yankees but important to the Dodgers if they’re gonig to try and make a run at A-Rod.  Considering the Dodgers have Loney at 1B and LaRoche at 3B, doesn’t this make too much sense for everyone?

I don’t think Boras and A-Rod would have spurned a preliminary meeting with the Yankees over an extension if Boras didn’t know he could make a better deal in free agency.

I surely don’t see Boras and A-Rod taking arbitration from the Yankees if they can’t find an acceptable long-term deal in free agency.  Many of the reasons have been covered above, but I’d also throw in image.  Boras knows A-Rod needs to maintain his “IPN” and a season full of the NY media having a field day with A-Rod returning with his tail between his legs won’t help.

It also puts the ball squarely in New York’s court.  No one else would sign him and now the Yanks can call all the shots.  Boras loses his leverage.

If Boras can’t get a 10/300, I think he’ll settle for a shorter contract worth more per year, maybe a 5/170-175.

The problem with Nomar is twofold.  First, he doesn’t want to play on the east coast (does, he perhaps, have a no-trade clause?) and second, he is extremely injury prone.  Moreover, if LA hires Torre, he will almost certainly prefer Nomar’s experience to LaRoche’s youth.  LaRoche has a career minor league OPS of .904 and will turn 25 in August of 2008.  He’s a very good prospect, but not the type that would require the Yanks to part with Hughes, Joba, Austin Jackson, Tabata or even Ian Kennedy.  In any event, it’s certainly a deal worth exploring - especially as it would give the Yanks a potential guy who will be cheap and can play the position for the long term.  This is of particular importance because right now the Yanks best prospect at 3B is Marcos Vechionacci who has lots of potential but hasn’t really had a breakout type of year yet and almost certainly won’t be major league ready until 2010.

As long as we’ve gone down a hypothetical where ARod accepts arbitration, why not take it one step further?  I believe that he loses all of his no trade rights if he accepts arbitration, so I wonder what they could get for him on the open market.  Those teams scared off by having to make a long term commitment might be interested in a 1 year deal to put them over the top.

ARod will be playing in Queens and will be a pain in our asses…

i don’t know how he feels now, but i recall in ‘06 after damon came over than nomar stated he would never play for the yankees because he will forever consider himself a red sox. i’m cool with that.

Why does A-rod have more than ZERO incentive to go to arbitration? He is young and productive enough to get any sort of long term deal the market will bear. Even if he got 35 million for next year in arbitration, I think the yankees would do it to give time to the youth movement and look forward to the free agent class of 2009.

The Yankees might even do 3/100. The problem is the risk in years 6 7 and 8 in the deals he’s looking for, and the lack of flexibility it creates.

I hate to jump on the bandwagon because Mr. Milesky seems pretty well defended but
I’m pretty sure that little lightning bolt means “dedicated considerable time and energy to this site/yankee fandom. not a troll.”

The only surefire way to get flamed is to hurl an insult at someone else, not by voicing an opinion, or commenting on someone else’s idea.

If ARod could be brought back via arbitration, sure, it’s probably worth it.  Ok.  I doubt that is what will happen, but if it does, fine.

If A-rod opted out due to a desire to leave NYC and it’s media circus, how does moving to Shea improve that environment?  I think it’s bull. He will wind up likely on one of the LA teams or even Boston. He’ll want a slam dunk team that will go to the World Series or LCS every year, yet pay him voocoo dollars. He’ll want to be doing again what he thought he was accomplishing on Valentine’s day 2004. It just didn’t work out in Yankee Stadium. The Giants can forget about him as they are a decade from competing. I do think it will be interesting just how much an owner will rake up for him other than the Yanks. I’d watch Boston very very carefully. They can’t be too enamored with Lugo at SS. This is what worries me the most.

In other news, the Elias ratings just came out and guess who is a type B free agent - our very own good friend Eric Gagne.

Dammit! Ah well, Kason Gabbard couldn’t make our roster anyway…

Actually, why not Nomar for the Yankees?  He’s a righty and even in a terrible 2007 he hit .303/.342/.383 against lefties.  Just the year before that he hit .341/.420/.600 vs lefties.

whoa, I think my brain just came to a complete halt. I’ll have to do some soul-searching to decide if this is a dream or a nightmare.

That Cuban plays 2b, ss, and OF. He’ll be a good pickup for someone. If he’s that athletic and offensively gifted he’ll get a 4/20 deal pretty easily and a lot of playing time.

It would be cool if jetes volunteered to shift IF they had a great solution at SS. Or even if they didn’t he’d show how “team” he is!

p.s. Cashman calls Arod “the greatest shortstop to ever play the game” in his press conference.

Pags Rags…

“ARod will be playing in Queens and will be a pain in our asses…”

WHAT? lol really? a pain in our asses?  Were talking about the Mets right?
the same team that we only play 6…thats SIX games a year….I think a pain in our ass would be a team like the sox, tampa, orioles, or the blue jays…because we would be seeing him 18 games…

let the Mets sign him…have them deal with the media cluster fuck that comes with him…