Someone mentioned this before, but perhaps caught up in all the excitement about how awesome Joba is (and he is) is that he’s only got 2 pitches (from my amateur point of view.)  If he’s going to start next year, it seems like there’s still some work to be done. I know the throws a curve and change, but I’m not sure where either of those fall on the scale.  I guess the comforting thing is that Joba’s control, velocity and that nasty slider will probably get him out trouble enough where maybe he can work on that stuff throughout spring training and in the season.

He’s only got two pitches working out of the pen. You said it yourself: he throws a curve and change and the change supposedly profiles as major league average. Not sure about the curve. Does he need time to develop, does work still need to be done? Yeah. He’s 21. But he’s shown the stuff and the command (and the ever important belly full of guts) to succeed in high leverage situations, which makes me think he’ll handle a starting role pretty well…something he’s accustomed to anyways.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that Joba has excellent command of his 97-100 mph fastball.  Like AJ Burnett did last night, Joba can put that pitch on either corner with relative ease.  This is one reason why he is so effective. 

In other news, how encouraging was last night’s start by Ian Kennedy?  To be sure, the Blue Jays don’t have much in the way of hitting these days, but one hit in seven innings against any team is not all that bad.  If a rookie is going to get a playoff start (which is debatable), Kennedy may just get the nod over Hughes and rightly so.  In addition, the prospect of the Yanks having four starters under 30 years old next season, three of which will be under 25, is a rather enticing one - although surely there will be a few bumps along the way.

three of which will be under 25

Hell, three of whom will be 23 or under. Yes, that’s definitely exciting.

Just some thoughts about Matsuzaka. We’re seeing all these articles and proclamations that he’s getting worn down or hitting some type of wall. Wasn’t he supposed to be the guy that threw 200 pitches in a high school game? The guy who could rack up 240 innings, no sweat? The guy with a worryingly intense between-start throwing regimen? The guy you couldn’t tire? What happened to all that?

I’ve seen some of it attributed to pitching every five days instead of the customary Japanese schedule of once a week. I’ve also seen theories that American umpires don’t give him high strike calls on sliders and changeups, which has forced him to throw more fastballs than he wants.

If the latter is the cause for his recent struggles, I hope the Yankees continue to be patient with him and wait out his breaking stuff. Either way, I hope he doesn’t suddenly “find it” tonight.

Wasn’t he supposed to be the guy that threw 200 pitches in a high school game? The guy who could rack up 240 innings, no sweat? The guy with a worryingly intense between-start throwing regimen? The guy you couldn’t tire? What happened to all that?

i’ve been wondering that too.  there was a whole article in Sports Illustrated in April about how he was a “freak of nature” and how he was going to change the way American teams looked at pitching prospects.  basically saying that our pitchers get hurt so much b/c they don’t throw enough.

not saying that is right or wrong, but it’s odd that he is now “tired”.

I’ve also seen theories that American umpires don’t give him high strike calls on sliders and changeups, which has forced him to throw more fastballs than he wants.

if this is true, then the Red Sox made the exact same mistake the Yankees did with Igawa, who lives up in the zone.

i think Matsuzaka is going to be a decent pitcher. and given that the Sox are rich, i don’t think they will “regret” it necessarily, but he is not that surefire “ace” either.  he’ll be a good pitcher who is overpaid, which isn’t the worst thing in the world for a rich team.

If Matsuzaka is indeed tired why doesn’t Boston skip one or two of his starts (like Detroit did last season with Verlander), especially given their cushion in the AL East?  Perhaps the real issue is that he is simply going through a rough stretch, like all pitchers.

For some reason, I’m hung up on the lack of evidence of Japanese pro pitchers turned into MLB pitchers track record. Nomo, Irabu, etc.. none of them lasted long than 4 or 5 years (I’m just taking a stab at the timeframe here.)  Perhaps this comes from how little we know about how these guys are brought up through high school and their minor leagues (if they have them.) I’m sure there’s a good Mike Plugh article on this, but would it surprise anyone to see Matsuzaka perhaps peak next year or the year after, and then get worse and worse until he’s spit out the bottom of some teams A ball club?

Didn’t we have Nomo on an MiLB deal last year?

Wow.. insert foot into mouth. Nomo put up pretty strong years in 02 and 03 for LAD.

not saying that is right or wrong, but it�s odd that he is now �tired�.

I think its possible that having to pitch every 5 days instead of every 6 days could be effecting him.  Over the course of a season, whether or not he can throw over 220 innings, etc. is meaningless if his arm is not getting the same amount of rest between starts that he’s used to.  Maybe the shortened rest between starts is catching up to him.

The guy you couldn’t tire?

Does it raise an eyebrow as well that Matsuzaka doesn’t really have an athletic physique? He’s not fat, but he’s definitely got little man boobs. I guess you like to see pitchers with frames like Mo, Mussina, etc.

Nomo may actually be a fairly apt comp. for Matsuzaka.  Both arrived in the majors at the age of 26, both right-handed with decent fastballs and breaking pitches.  All in all, Nomo was good but given all the hype surrounding Matsuzaka, he would basically have to be Pedro in his prime not to be a letdown of some sort.

“he’s definitely got little man boobs. “

You may have not read this phrase before on this site and perhaps never again. We pause now to appreciate.

given all the hype surrounding Matsuzaka, he would basically have to be Pedro in his prime not to be a letdown…

No kidding. Think Peter Gammons has caught his breath yet? Remember the ridiculous ESPN coverage of his first start? Yeesh.

I know what-if’s suck, but Tampa Bay came as close as we could have expected from taking all 3 from Boston, and if last night would have turned out better, we’d be looking at:

Boston     86-62
New York     84-62

That’s pretty crazy considering all that’s happened..

Boston 86-61, sorry

If the Yanks had won the bidding for Matsuzaka, the media would now be writing, with the utmost sanctimony, something to the effect of, “Once again, the Evil Empire tried to buy itself a championship while the rest of baseball relies on developing young talent.  It thus serves the Yankees right that their newest over-priced acquisition isn’t paying such high dividends.”

Does it raise an eyebrow as well that Matsuzaka doesn’t really have an athletic physique? He’s not fat, but he’s definitely got little man boobs. I guess you like to see pitchers with frames like Mo, Mussina, etc.

There have been some studies that suggest fat pitchers throw more innings and suffer fewer injuries than thin pitchers.

Would you be referring, perhaps, to the injury free career of the rather portly Bartolo Colon?  Mr. David Wells, to my mind, has also been a prime example of florid good health, especially come World Series time.

Mr. David Wells, to my mind, has also been a prime example of florid good health, especially come World Series time.

I resent Wells as much as any Yankee fan, probably more, but he’s had an extremely long and unusually healthy career. He’s missed significant time in, what, one season when he was with the White Sox?

There have been some studies that suggest fat pitchers throw more innings and suffer fewer injuries than thin pitchers.

there is probably some selection bias in there, b/c i would imagine that only the most talented overweight pitchers actually make it to the majors.

i’d imagine there is a prejudice against them in the minors and their more “athletic looking” peers get called up first regardless of actual performance.  i would imagine the same bias extends to draft position as well, which may also lead to more call-ups as the fatties were lower in the organizational pecking order from day 1.

or, i could be talking out of my ass.

Perhaps the real issue is that he is simply going through a rough stretch, like all pitchers.

Like Moose, I might argue.  I’ll reserve judgment till the next few starts, but perhaps that August hiccup was just a hiccup and we were all a little quick to say he’s lost it entirely.

So what happens with the rotation next week?  Safe to assume that Moose and Kennedy will get the ball, right?  If Clemens shows some modicum of effectiveness Sun. night, safe to assume we’re going with a 6-man rotation the final 2 weeks?

or, i could be talking out of my ass.

I don’t think so. If the study exists I’d like to look at it, but does it not make sense that guys who stay in shape will hold up more physically as they age? Even if the statistics do contradict that, is that a reason to not be concerned with someone like, Chris Britton? That just makes sense to me.

If Clemens shows some modicum of effectiveness Sun. night, safe to assume we’re going with a 6-man rotation the final 2 weeks?

From Pete Abe:

<blockquote>Torre indicated that the Yankees will try and use six starters over their remaining 16 games. There will be a lot of mixing and matching. They have not announced a rotation beyond this weekend.

Yeah, that didn’t work

Torre indicated that the Yankees will try and use six starters over their remaining 16 games. There will be a lot of mixing and matching. They have not announced a rotation beyond this weekend.

I’m not concerned with Chris Britton’s weight as much as his pitching of late.  Also, relievers are a different animal than starters.  Big-boned relievers, since they throw fewer pitches, are probably a better bet to flourish over their husky peers in the starting rotation.  Bobby Jenks comes to mind, although that’s just one example.

As for Wells, he hasn’t been as injury prone as, say, Rich Harden or Mark Prior, but his balky back has cost him plenty of starts over the years or caused him to leave games early or just be ineffective.  Whether there is a direct link between that and his distended gut is open to debate, but Wells has hardly been Tom Glavine health-wise.

I’ve had one big concern with Britton, and it’s really not rational.  I didn’t see a single post or comment or article from an Orioles fan anywhere that was upset that they gave him up for Jaret Wright.  If a team like the Orioles, who had a horrendous bullpen last season, was willing to give him up and their fans didn’t seem upset by it, it frightens me.

I’ve had one big concern with Britton, and it’s really not rational.  I didn’t see a single post or comment or article from an Orioles fan anywhere that was upset that they gave him up for Jaret Wright.  If a team like the Orioles, who had a horrendous bullpen last season, was willing to give him up and their fans didn’t seem upset by it, it frightens me.

Most Orioles fans are retarded.  The ones that aren’t have long since given up caring.

I didn’t see a single post or comment or article from an Orioles fan anywhere that was upset that they gave him up for Jaret Wright

And most Phillies fans were happy they got rid of Abreau, regardless of what they got for him.  You’re right; you’re concern isn’t rational

I don’t like going to a six-man rotation, especially at this point of the season.  I suppose of the Yankees sweep Boston and Detroit gets swept this week-end, it may not be a bad thing (more rest for starters going into the play-offs), but if Clemens is healthy, he’s #3 starter in the playoffs.  And logically, rationally, Kennedy right now looks like he should be #4.  Which means, I’d rather Moose get some experience working out of the bullpen.

Let’s change it up a little bit: Who gets traded in the off-season: Jason or Johnny?

u guys are boring

IMO

.25 > P(trade Damon) >> P(trade Giambi)

Damon has a partial NTC, Giambi has a full NTC

The one really big difference between pitching in Japan and here, is the HR. In Japan, I don’t think Dice-K worried much about ‘one mistake’ that would lead to a 3 run HR. However here, that is a constant possibility.

I believe he has to be more careful here, and I believe that each inning here is more stressful then each inning in Japan. That, less rest between games, and a slightly larger baseball may make a big difference.

We don’t seem to win those close and late games often enough though last night’s game can be chalked up to the unavailibity of all the better relievers which makes me wonder who is the least bad option Bruney, Britton, Villone, Veras, Sy Schwartz?

The Yanks also lost last night because they couldn’t convert on either of two instances in which there were runners in scoring position and less than two out.  These were situations where runners were on second, so a sac fly was not an option but, on the other hand, the Yanks had four at bats where a hit would have resulted in the winning run and four outs resulted.  Also, earlier in the game, Molina was on second with a two-out double and Damon lined a ball right to Russ Adams.  That was merely bad luck.  However, the Yanks will need to make the most of their opportunities if they hope to advance in the playoffs because they are going to spend a lot of time facing pitchers who measure up to AJ Burnett.

A lot of people here have proposed trading Damon Damon but I don’t understand why.  Damon got off to a horrendous start and his refusal to go on the DL was maddening, but he’s still a useful player that can play good outfield defense and drive up pitch counts.  If you trade Damon, you’re banking on Abreu, Matsui, and Cabrera staying healthy the whole season, and if they don’t… then who’s next in line for the OF?  I say let them all rotate in the OF or DH throughout the season.

I agree with you, Nate.  Unless the Yanks absolutely need to save money, they should keep Damon (and play him at least 80 games in LF) and pick up Abreu’s option.  After all, Matsui’s knees won’t be getting much better going forward and the chances of Giambi remaining healthy for an entire season are rather slim as well.

These were situations where runners were on second, so a sac fly was not an option but, on the other hand, the Yanks had four at bats where a hit would have resulted in the winning run and four outs resulted.  Also, earlier in the game, Molina was on second with a two-out double and Damon lined a ball right to Russ Adams.  That was merely bad luck

Damon hit the liner right at Adams.

in the 6th, Matui hit a liner right at someone with 1st and 2nd.

in the 9th, Melky sliced that ball right at Overbay, with men on 2nd and 3rd.

i don’t think last night was anything more than a load of crappy luck.

I’m proposing investigating trading Damon.  Yes to picking up Abreau’s option.  I don’t think they should trade Damon just to trade Damon, but of their 5 outfielders/DH’s, Damon is probably the most tradeable; that is, he doesn’t have a full NTC, and I don’t see why you would want to trade Melky.  The Yankees have a surplus there, so identify a need (relief pitching, perhaps long-term solution for replacing Posada), and see if trading Damon can fill it.  If it can’t, keep Damon.  If it can, trade him.

then who’s next in line for the OF

Corner OF I think S. Duncan, depending on how long it would be.  CF I think they call up Gardner.

Are the Sawx going to be throwing at the Yankees?  Arod esp?  It might have been prudent to issue warnings cause this weekend might get ugly at some point.

Boston has nothing to lose by throwing at the Yanks, although I don’t know whether they’ll do so.  After all, they can peg whomever they choose and if any Yankee pitcher retaliates, he’s automatically thrown out.  On the other hand, if the game is a blowout (hopefully, with the Yanks on top), all bets are off.

Speaking of breathless media coverage, the article quoted in this piece is patently ridiculous. Joba Chamberlain is the obsession of Sox fans? He’ll get the same greeting any Sox pitcher would get in Yankee Stadium for doing the same thing Joba did, but somehow I doubt a guy who’s in line for something like 0-2 innings this weekend is rapidly ascending to public enemy #1. Anyway, Klemens has a lock on that.

Among the potential issues for Matsuzaka: exhausted arm; exhausted brain (anyone who’s lived overseas understands); inconsistent feel for a different baseball; trouble adjusting to different strike zone; trouble adjusting to different hitters; vertigo; embarassment over the mention of man-boobs; and a general distaste for ballpark food.

My money’s on the strike zone and the hitters. New pitchers always have an initial advantage, then a temporary disadvantage once their stuff becomes familiar, until at last both sides are used to each other and the best man starts to win. It’s the same for good pitchers coming up from AAAA, er, the national league. Beckett’s ERA was 5 last year. It’s not easy.

Where Matsuzaka lands is still a mystery, but he’s got more than enough talent to be a solid #3 or even #2. He just turned 27.

Since when do the Bosox need an excuse to throw at the Yankees?

********

71. Posted at 1:26:40 am on Friday, August 31, 2007 by Don

From WasWatching:

Posted by: MJ at August 31, 2007 12:12 AM

last post of the night (i stole it from ‘Mookie’ over at RAB):

“Since 2000, Sox pitchers have hit 612 batters. With the exception of the Devil Rays, who hit 604 (but had really really really bad pitchers), no other team hit more than 525 (Rangers). After the Rangers and Jays (493), you see a cluster of 7 teams in the 430-460 range, including the Yanks (456), and then a handful of teams with lower totals (Twins at the bottom with 361). So before Youkilis, Beckett and the rest of Red Sox Nation do any pouting, they should realize that the team they play for/root for is easily the head-huntingest team in the American League in recent memory, and that the Yankees are right in the middle of the bell curve.”

Since 2000 the Bosox have hit approx. 85 Yankees batters vs. Yankees hitting approx. 54 Bosox batters. ‘Nuff said.

I stumbled on this site for the first time today while doing a Google search for Farnsworth. (don’t ask why!)
Anyway, I read a number of posts from May 28, in a thread entitled “From Denial to Acceptance.”

I don’t know if any of you current posters were around for that, but if so, I just can’t understand how you can call yourselves Yankee fans. Pathetic quitters is what you sounded like. Of the lame posts I could stand to read, the only person who had any confidence in the Yankees at that point was a (yeesh) Red Sox fan. I was as upset as anyone back then, but I NEVER gave up. Certainly not in May. Ridiculous.

I saw supposed Yankee fans talking about losing 90 games…getting rid of everyone from Mo to Posada to ARod to Pettitte…firing Joe…and, my favorite suggestion from “SG,” the originator of the whining:

“This team needs to get some young position players with offensive upside and the ability to not play embarrassingly horrendous defense.  They should also look at trading some of their pitching prospect depth for position player prospects, because they need the help.”

By that I can only assume that you wanted to see the Yankees trade Joba, Kennedy, Ohlendorf, et al for “some position player prospects.”

Yeah, that would’ve been smart.
Thank God you’re not in charge.

Anyone who agreed with that drivel back in May has NO BUSINESS celebrating now, or in October when the Yanks hoist that 27th Championship trophy.

Jeter has no range to his left. Suck on that for a while.

I was in Cuba on May 28 (along with the six weeks after that) and thus am certain my name did not appear in the May 28 thread.  Just the same, “Jeter is King,” I can tell you, with the utmost kindness and sincerity, that if this site does not meet your lofty standards of belief and comportment, you are most free to transfer your cheap sanctimony to a more congenial forum.

honestly, a small part of me hopes that one day the yankees DON’T pull their patented yearly comeback just so some people stop assuming it’s going to happen every year.  The yankees had no business making the playoffs the year that cano came up (2 years ago?) and they honestly probably don’t “deserve” to make the playoffs this year.  They played VERY poorly the first two months.  It’s extremely rare for a team to make this big of a comeback. 

I definitely gave up on this team for this season.  And it was the yankee-haters who kept saying “no, it’s the yankees, they’ll just come back.  they always do”.  that’s an unrealistic expectation, that just happened to turn out true this year.

I stumbled on this site for the first time today while doing a Google search for Farnsworth.

More reason to dislike Farnsworth.

I don�t know if any of you current posters were around for that, but if so, I just can�t understand how you can call yourselves Yankee fans.

I guess it’s because we root for the Yankees.

I was as upset as anyone back then, but I NEVER gave up. Certainly not in May. Ridiculous.

I assume your Greatest Yankee Fan Ever trophy is in the mail?

By that I can only assume that you wanted to see the Yankees trade Joba, Kennedy, Ohlendorf, et al for �some position player prospects.�

Although I’d prefer you just slink off somewhere else, if you read any of my posts you’ll see that I’ve been very consistent about not trading certain people, Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy.  Ohlendorf?  I’d trade him.  Maybe the word depth is above your comprehension.  Maybe you need someone to explain to you that of the Yankees’ current list of pitching prospects in the minors, if even 20% of them pan out into major leaguers they should be thankful.

Thank God you�re not in charge.

I agree with that.  If I was the Yankees would stink.

Anyone who agreed with that drivel back in May has NO BUSINESS celebrating now, or in October when the Yanks hoist that 27th Championship trophy.

OK, I won’t celebrate.  Am I allowed to celebrate in 2008?

I don’t think SG was arguing for the trading of Hughes, Joba or Kennedy.  I believe he was talking more along the lines of Clippard, DeSalvo, etc.  Maybe Olendorf - and hey, I’m not sold on the guy because he threw one scoreless inning against Toronto.

Ah, SG beat me to it.

Re. throwing at guys: has it occurred to anyone who cares about this issue (which I’d hope is a pretty small number) that it has anything to do with the pitchers themselves? One example is Pedro Martinez: he’s made a career out of throwing inside and with the movement on his pitches he has always hit more guys than just about everyone else. Another guy is Tim Wakefield, whose pitches sail all over the place, and most guys look pretty happy taking a 68mph knuckler off the bicep rather than continuing to try to hit it. Also, the Yankees see more pitches than anyone, I strongly suspect… do other teams hit them more often than they hit guys from other teams? These are just a few examples of how the statistics Don cites could indeed be bullshit.

And anyway, what’s the point? To claim that there’s a systematic ongoing tantrum in the Boston pitching staff against Yankee hitters? To whine about how those meanies from Boston keep throwing inside? Unless you’ve got stats about headhunting attempts, it’s all just part of the game.

Oh come on, Jeter Is King’s post is at least funny.

“This team needs to get some young position players with offensive upside and the ability to not play embarrassingly horrendous defense.  They should also look at trading some of their pitching prospect depth for position player prospects, because they need the help.”

By that I can only assume that you wanted to see the Yankees trade Joba, Kennedy, Ohlendorf, et al for “some position player prospects.”

You assume wrong.  And I think SG’s assertion is still more or less true.  I love Melky, but he’s not the long term everyday answer.  1B, C, OF, and SS (even) remains big question marks.

And seriously, while I am certainly bias, this is one of the best/better Yankee sites around.

As well, Damon/Torre/Abreu/Farnsworth/Guidry sucks, booooooooo Alex, Jeter is a singles hitter who plays bad defense, Posado is worst baserunner ever, Giambi is a base clogger, Cano sucks (I assume he’s not going to win the batting title this year, huh?), etc.

Jeter can’t even hold his on the field right now. I would say that A-Rod is more king.

Greetings.    Mr Jeter is King.I believe most of the lads on this site are very rabid fans.That many times will cause one to be irrational,impulsive and prone to emotional outbursts that we have all witnessed and felt all our lives. If you think you feel MORE OF A YANKEE FAN because you never gave up on them thats fine. That would make you the only yankee fan I know that did not think the pathetic product we witnessed in the spring, needed to be blown up. So good luck to you , with your faith you would make a great Islamic fundamentalist or perhaps a senator from Idaho. Oh yes Dons correct #2 can no longer go to his left and i have great faith in that.

And anyway, what’s the point? To claim that there’s a systematic ongoing tantrum in the Boston pitching staff against Yankee hitters

Definitely not, at least in my opinion. Following all those stats about the distribution of HPB’s given, and then concluded that the Red Sox are the “head huntingiest team” is not a conclusion I would make.

Let’s focus on this one instead:

“Since 2000 the Bosox have hit approx. 85 Yankees batters vs. Yankees hitting approx. 54 Bosox batters. ‘Nuff said.”

I’m sure you could go back to through the game logs and find out which of those pitches are the retaliatory kind (funny side note, the free paper in Boston today had a blurb on the Sox/Yanks rivalry and cited an incident where “pitchers Karim Garcia and Jeff Nelson pummeled a groundskeeper” .. I guess they really don’t know who Karim Garcia is.)

Here’s the problem as I see it with HBP’s:  the scouting report on where to pitch Jeter, ARod and perhaps Giambi to a lesser is extent is low and away and up and in .. very up and in for ARod and Jeter.  Even if this results in accidental HBP’s, it’s still something that needs to be addressed.  Matsuzaka and Beckett have to realize that, although the scouting report is to pitch those guys up there, if they miss, one of their guys is going to get hit, and it’s probably going to be a comparable player.  The desired result is not “Got you back!”, but rather more for the Sox starters to think about when they’re pitching to ARod and Jeter, and hopefully results in better pitches for those guys to see (and less of a chance of them getting hit.)

“This team needs to get some young position players with offensive upside and the ability to not play embarrassingly horrendous defense.  They should also look at trading some of their pitching prospect depth for position player prospects, because they need the help.”

What about Tabata, Jackson, Montero, Angelini, Romine, Suttle, Synder, etc…?
That not good enough for you Jeter is King?

By that I can only assume that you wanted to see the Yankees trade Joba, Kennedy, Ohlendorf, et al for �some position player prospects.�

To give this guy the benefit of the doubt, I can see how having all these young pitching prospects for the first time in a while can be contagious.  But the truth about prospects is many of them don’t pan out. 

We went through this with Melky for Gonzalez.  Melky exceeded expectation and Gonzalez got hurt, which is what a lot of people said would happen, so the right decision was made.  But if Melky’s 2006 proved to be a fluke in 2007, and Gonzalez became unhittable, then Cashman would be kicking ourselves.

I believe the point SG is making now is that our minor league system has a strength, and it’s pitching depth. We also have a weakness, and that’s position players. It’s not wrong to deal from your strength to address your weakness, and all Cashman can do is go on what he knows and evaluate things 1 by 1.  This much is true, however: the Yankees are going to need an everyday catcher to replace a HOF-worthy one, a 1B-man unless Wilson Betemit proves he can get the job done as a full time guy, and a shortstop who can hit the ball, none of which they have right now except for sure.  Instead, they’ve got a list of pitchers as long as your arm. So, I believe all SG was saying that making some moves like this a strategy that makes some sense.

I’d personally rather them keep just about all of the kid pitchers, and pay for Teixera when he becomes an FA, convert an MiLB infielder to a catcher (perhaps Gonzalez if Jeter wasn’t falling off a cliff defensively) and hope Austin Jackson, Brett Gardner and Jose Tabata pan out.

..except for sure = except for a guy here or there, or something like that.

Uh, A. Phil, that was Jeter Is King quoting an SG post from May.

Yeah, I was on my honeymoon on May 28th, but I was as down on the team at that point as I’d ever been. And if I could have posted something disparraging at that point, I would have.  They deserved it. The fact is, they were a $195 mil team playing as poorly as Nationals.

J: Good stuff, I’m definitely not up on hitters’ weak spots. I suspect the mentality of a major league pitcher is not to stop and think—in advance—about what will happen if/when they miss that spot; they assume they’re going to hit the spot. Anything less than this natural arrogance would render a normal human unable to walk out to the mound. That said, once they *do* hit someone, I think the factors you mention start coming into play: making them shy about coming in again, making them more prone to miss out over the plate, etc.

I wonder if the Yankee pitchers know that people want to work Jeter up and in? Surely they do. So do they retaliate anyway? I’m thinking yes, though more because they want to continue to up the pressure on guys coming up and in, not because they believe there was any intent.

Baseball is a really fascinating game once you sift out the bullshit that most of the newspapers talk about…

how often do ortiz and manny get hit?? i ask not because i want to see them get hurt, but perhaps there are a precious couple of instances where we actually attempted to get them off the plate (and missed). i’m not really interested in picking on the pedroias and youkilisisis of the world.

I suspect the mentality of a major league pitcher is not to stop and think—in advance—about what will happen if/when they miss that spot; they assume they’re going to hit the spot.

What’s funny about all of this is that when someone who actually know what they’re talking about says “That’s part of the game” after someone gets hit following an HBP on their own team, people usually thing it’s a retaliatory aggressive thing (sort of like, a cheap shot on the other teams goalie after a blindside hit or a cheap shot on your goalie.)

Maybe I’m completely off, but I like to think that subsequent HBP is for the reason I stated - to get the other pitcher realizing that if they want to throw up and in, they better not miss and hit a finger or a wrist, because if they do, they’re essentially risking the health of one of their own players.  And I’m perfectly fine with that as part of the game, because it’s just another thing to go into the pitcher vs. batter match up that we get to see 300 time per game.

Sox Fan,  11.8% of Yankee Plunkings have hit Redsox Players while 13.9% of Redsox plunkings have hit Yankee Players.  Setting aside the reasons for why the Sox hit so many batters, a greater proporation of your plunkings find Yankee Batters than yankee plunkings find Redsox batters.  Nearly 18% more.  Red Sox pitchers hit Yankee batters.

couldn’t our extreme emotional swings have shown how much we really cared about this team?

i never posted much about it (actually i admit that i suggested replacing the entire roster with, ahem, “snowmen made of shit”) but there was a point when i decided i had to stop watching to protect my sanity. well, i never did. i watched the first month and a half on gameday in australia on a 56k modem. the games started at 5:00am over there. now THAT was depressing [i’ll never forget- chase wright- “put in play run(s), put in play run(s), put in play run(s), put in play run(s)...].

it sounds like i’m just trying to prove i’m not fairweather but i’m really not. most of us have been here all along. and do i have to point out that ALEX is the king, jeter’s the prince, johnny’s the jester, and wang’s the ace? and they’re storming the castle? and it’s time for a royal beatdown???

villainx,

The Yanks may not be brimming with position player prospects, but Austin Jackson and José Tabata, who are 20 and 18 respectively are both very high ceilinged OF prospects who will be in AA next year.  Francisco Cervelli, who is 21, looks like a decent catcher, with a high OBP.  Marcos Vechionacci, 21, has potential.  Further, the Yanks just drafted some rather talented position players, namely Brad Suttle a 3B from the University of Texas.  That’s not to say the Yanks are brimming with position players, but the well is not completely dry either.

Jorge’s more of the jester but I totally agree with you. I saw that Chase Wright game with some of my cousins (who are bandwagon Yankee fans) and they were like Yankeees suck, they’re not going to make the playoffs. I know at some point I believed that chances were slim, but I know I speak for all of us when I say that we had hope, even if it was just a slimmer of hope. Otherwise, there would be virtually no point in following this team. If there was a three game winning streak, that hope would once again be ignited. Besides, it’s not over til its over and I know that the comments that were stated on May 28th or whatever were just said out of frustration. We as fans all go through the motions. It happens, but it doesn’t we are any more less deserving to root for the same Sept. 14th Yankees who lead the wildcard. We’ll be fine.

I’ll be stealing “a slimmer of hope”.

j - I think we’re in agreement.

eelz - of course I don’t know… maybe they’re too strong on the inner half to warrant trying?? Manny doesn’t actually stand all that close, though Ortiz is a classic plate-crowder. You’d think he’d get hit more by accident, just for that reason. But IIRC his strikeouts are often down and away, so maybe people just pound him away, away, away. Down and in is another potential hole, though a risky one.

Ralph - I read the raw numbers before; I don’t think they say very much even when you state them a second time. Also, another way of looking at the %s is 13.9-11.8= 2.1%, a/k/a rounding error.

A Phil… A slimmer of hope ? Are ya of the Queens Bunker clan?

That’s not to say the Yanks are brimming with position players, but the well is not completely dry either.

Stop trolling.  IE = Jeter is King.  Just kidding. 

I guess “big” question marks was overstating things.  Maybe simply question marks without the qualifier.  1B production has been okay so far this year, but it’s been a patchwork and was a meaningful question mark entering into this (and probably last) year.  As well, 1B and OF can be covered up with enough dollars thrown at players.  Catcher I’m worried about. 

Next year will be interesting.  I hope some of those prospects breakout and through.

The statistical uncertainty on counting n is sqrt(n); taking the difference gives a factor of sqrt(2) for comparable data sizes; so assuming N_hbp_y = 100, the difference is measurable to about 14% of the individual quantities or about 0.14*12% = 1.7%, so 2.1% isn’t very significant - you’d expect the difference to be that large in that direction about 10% of the time by chance (assuming I can still add in my head).

The big “moneyball-esque” thing going in football now is the theory that a running back-by-committee is both cheaper and more effective than an expensive RB. 

I wonder if the same can be said about a platoon at 1st base.  If you get two guys with extreme platoon splits, and one of them (perferably the guy who mashes lefties) is also good w/ the glove (perhaps good enough to play other infield positions), maybe that’s the best way to go.

And 4%-2% =2% but still represents twice as many times.

Google indicates that “slimmer of hope” is demotic speech.  Huh.

I wonder if the same can be said about a platoon at 1st base.  If you get two guys with extreme platoon splits, and one of them (perferably the guy who mashes lefties) is also good w/ the glove (perhaps good enough to play other infield positions), maybe that’s the best way to go.

Not to be whatever, but that’s probably true for many positions, but most true for 1B, LF, RF, and catcher.  This issue is juggling playing time, reduced roster, salary, and player ego.

there are pictures of wang and cano dressed as cheerleaders on mlb.com’s homepage.

rilkefan, we are dealing with a population, not a sample.

slimmer is word though right? I was trying to sound poetic.

slimmer is word

Phatter!

“rilkefan, we are dealing with a population, not a sample.”

?  You’ve got some binned data and tell me the average/bin is n_a.  I use a flat prior and therefore can expect for a particular bin n_a +/- root(n_a) to a good approximation.  Then I subtract two nominally uncorrelated numbers and get to propagate the uncertainty as usual.  What’s wrong with that?  Maybe you can argue that n_a_y and n_a_b are correlated because of retaliation.

“Slimmer” isn’t a noun in my dictionary (except as “someone trying to slim down”).  I assumed it was a portmanteau of “sliver” and “glimmer” as either is idiomatic before “of hope”.  [For “portmanteau” see the Humpty Dumpty episode in _Through the Looking-Glass_.]

Thats what I meant to say: sliver. Damn! 

I love Old Thurman Fan making a taunting reference to 17 year old A. Phil with a reference to a 1970s TV show.

The kids I teach in college today don’t even remember Tecmo Super Bowl.

A. Phil, out of curiosity, are you from Jersey?

The guys at NoMaas are funny.. they ping Torre for not using Rivera last night, but don’t mention that it was Britton who served up 2 meatballs over 5 pitches and lost the game. Possibly because they’ve been “Free Chris Britton”-ites all year? I like the pictures, but it’s funny when a blog that calls people out for being hypocritical is hypocritical, no?

Rilkefan, I am powerless before arguments like “bin n_a +/- root(n_a)”, even if that formula suggests that I should hand over the contents of my wallet.

As for tracing it all back to retaliation, that - Ralph - is the piece you don’t have.

WJ, I’m from Long Island. You teach college?
a) Where?
b) Is there a BS/MD program?
c) Can you get me in if it is a direct Med?

if that formula suggests that I should hand over the contents of my wallet.

Hey… that’s not the wallet inspector.

WJ..All In The Family was not just a 70’s tv show. Also I would never taunt wee felipe just a tiny needle.

Got the A lineup in there tonight, with the exception of Matsui playing left and Damon DHing. I can understand that, though. I mean, Damon probably doesn’t know Fenway Park well enough to play LF well there.

—-Not to be whatever, but that’s probably true for many positions, but most true for 1B, LF, RF, and catcher.  This issue is juggling playing time, reduced roster, salary, and player ego.—-

I don’t agree that it would be good for catcher…It would be tough to get the lesser catcher any significant PT, plus catchers have to throw righty, so any lefty hitting catcher is most likely a switch hitter.

In terms of LF/RF, I think a 4th OF should be really good defensively AND fast.  That way he can be a pinch runner and a defensive replacement.

In short, a perfect bench would be:  1) 4th OF who can play all three OF spots and is fast; 2) Utility infielder who can mash lefties, 3) young/cheap/defensive catcher, 4) ....?

Johnny Damon DH
Derek Jeter SS
Bobby Abreu RF
Alex Rodriguex 3B
Jorge Posada C
Hideki Matsui LF
Jason Giambi 1B
Robinson Cano 2B
Melky Cabrera CF

Oops, I nearly missed Po hitting 5th.

:banana:

now that’s an A lineup.

“Rilkefan, I am powerless before arguments like “bin n_a +/- root(n_a)”, even if that formula suggests that I should hand over the contents of my wallet.”

Just starting a new job (well, same job, new way of getting paid) Monday, so you can keep your wallet.  And I have no desire to club anyone by getting obscurely technical - I wrote the post previous to that to try to explain something useful for anybody trying to compare two numbers, an important skill for a citizen (e.g. in order to be able to say, “Gen. Petraeus, those numbers aren’t significantly different” [though “aren’t seasonally adjusted” would be even better]).

In short, a perfect bench would be:  ... 4) ....?

According to Torre, Giambi.

:glombi:

if i wasnt a yankee fan i could hate joba too

because hes so damn good

ShelleyDuncanFacts

www.freewebs.com/shelleyduncanisthemessiah

just

two more!!