1. Pettitte believes that the Yankees should display more appreciation for all that he has done for them.

The Yankees have paid Pettitte almost $80M for all that he has done for them.  Maybe Andy ought to display a little more appreciation for all that they have done for him.  Or maybe he should finally learn, after almost two decades of professional baseball, that this is strictly business.

If we can believe the various reports, Cashman made it perfectly clear to Pettitte back in mid-December that they weren’t in a position to wait for his decision indefinitely, and that other moves they were looking at could impact their ability or desire to bring him back.  Maybe he should have taken that a little more seriously.

Pat the Bat just got 8 million and is a half-decade younger.  Surely Pettite can’t think that there is much of a market for his services so long as he’s making double digits.

I also want to say that I have neither the irrational adoration of Pettitte that some Yankee fans show, nor the disdain that some others have.  But I think it would be absolutely awesome if Mussina decided to un-retire and accept the $10M that Andy thinks is such an insult.

But I think it would be absolutely awesome if Mussina decided to un-retire and accept the $10M that Andy thinks is such an insult.

That would be awesome, indeed.  Sadly, I don’t see it happening.  Moose doesn’t strike me as an un-retiring type.

Also, I agree with everything in [1].  I love Andy, but he can take his righteous indignation and shove it.

Andy is all about the money. He left because of money and returned because of it, too.

But right now, I just don’t know what he’s thinking. Does he want to earn 3 million more (maximum) while playing for the 3rd or 4th place Astros instead of playing for the best team in baseball in a new stadium where the fans adore him? This is when I just don’t understand baseball players.

By the way, there are plenty of rumors that the Yankees are looking to trade Nady. I don’t get it. I’d trade Nady if we get something more valuable in return, like I’d trade Arod for the right package too. But this move looks more like a salary dump, a 6 million salary dump is not something the Yankees should do.

the Astros are NOT going to give him the money he seems to think he is worth.  they are broke.  or say they are.

i am of the mind that a player should try to do everything he can to earn as much as he is worth, but his schtick is wearing a little thin. 

his agents overplayed their hand at the beginning of the off-season and now the yankees have legitimate budget constraints. 

if he came to the table in November willing to consider a pay-cut, i’d be shocked if a compromise couldn’t have been reached at that point. 

he didn’t, and now they spent some of his money on Teixeira. 

oh well.

Like most of you I’m disappointed in Andy’s behavior.  In addition, I don’t think it’s a given that he will be healthy and productive in 09 anyway, given his last two month’s of starts. That ought to factor into the offer and I think it has.

On Nady, here’s my take. I realize it is very smart to weigh offers and if a rare one makes the team truly better than maybe it has merit. On the other hand, the Yankees seem to struggle most years with lefty pitching and Boston has one of the best in Lester. It seems like before the team gets too concerned about looking down the road (ie: worrying about Nady’s FA status) perhaps it should concentrate on 09 and field the best lineup possible with as much insulation for injuries as possible. If they make a trade, get someone who can help just as much or more than Nady or a minor leaguer can’t miss at the least.

Wouldn’t it be cool if Cashman swooped in and got Baldelli at the last second?
Can you imagine the outcry?

Oh by the way, why hasn’t Andy just taken the three year offer?

likely because it didn’t exist.

But this move looks more like a salary dump, a 6 million salary dump is not something the Yankees should do.

says you.  it’s very easy to spend someone else’s money.

ownership went past their comfort zone to get Teixeira.  Nady may have to be moved to dump some salary. 

i’d prefer to keep him, but isn’t it a little obnoxious to criticize them for that after getting us Sabathia and Teixeira?

Nady is a better player than Baldelli

Its tough to project Baldelli given all the injuries.  I would imagine he could be a slight upgrade defensively over Nady.

Wouldn’t it be cool if Cashman swooped in and got Baldelli at the last second?

it would be hilarious.

but i am guessing this isn’t a purely financial decision for Baldelli.  he’s from Rhode Island and probably just wants to play in Boston. 

also, it’s a pretty good situation for him.

But what if Baldelli’s wife doesn’t like the stores on Newbury Street?

but isn’t it a little obnoxious to criticize them for that after getting us Sabathia and Teixeira?

It’s all proportional. 6 million out of a 200 million payroll is just 3%. Come on, I know it’s not my money, but it’s not a good idea to save pennies and spend millions. They shouldn’t trade him.

Remember he should be a type A free agent by the end of the season, so giving him just for salary dump is a very dumb idea.

Nady is needier but Baldelli is a balder player.

he should be a type A free agent by the end of the season, so giving him just for salary dump is a very dumb idea.

On the other hand, a few months ago there was great excitement over the draft picks resulting from Abreu, Giambi, I-Rod, and . . .  someone else . . . maybe Pettitte, also possibly Mussina and Marte.  We see how that worked out.  We should all train ourselves not to mentally convert FAs to round 1 picks.

Offering Nady arbitration will be a no brainer as he will make 6 mill this year. So this case you can assume the draft picks if he rejects arbitration. Maybe they won’t offer arbitration to Damon and Matsui, but to Nady is an easy decision.

Don’t forget who Andy’s BFF/mentor is.

“We should all train ourselves not to mentally convert FAs to round 1 picks.”

Done.

My take on the Nady rumors is not that they’re looking to save a few million, but rather that they think they have a logjam at the corner OF spots and a big question mark in CF.  Like I said yesterday, I would personally go with a Swisher/Damon/Nady OF, but the Yanks don’t seem inclined to do that.  And as much as we talk about preferring to dump Matsui’s contract, I think it might be time to accept that there’s no market for a $13M defensively challenged LF coming off of knee surgery when there are comparable or better players on the FA market who don’t have health issues.  Damon might have trade value, but they apparently want him to lead off and have no interest in trading him.

Baldelli is a class act.  Will be near-impossible to root against him even if he’s on the Sox (for me, anyway).

Offering Nady arbitration will be a no brainer as he will make 6 mill this year. So this case you can assume the draft picks if he rejects arbitration.

Two things:

1.) Arb awards for FA who accept are based on the FA market, not on service time comps.  SO if Nady has a big year, his potential 2010 arb award would not be limited in any way by what he makes in 2009.

2.) With all the chatter this off-season, I would not be at all surprised if MLB and the MLBPA agreed to change the FA comp system before next off-season.  They might even scrap it altogether.

Baldelli is a class act.  Will be near-impossible to root against him even if he’s on the Sox (for me, anyway).

I like Smolts, too. But it will be very easy for me to root against them.

So this case you can assume the draft picks if he rejects arbitration.

But is Nady guaranteed to be a type A?  The system’s hieroglyphic to me, but I was pretty surprised that neither Giambi nor I-Rod were type A this season.  What if Nady ends up essentially a platoon player this year?

But what if Baldelli’s wife doesn’t like the stores on Newbury Street?

all women do is shop, right Peter?

The wives of Yankee players are only interested in shopping.  The spouses of Red Sox players, on the other hand, discuss Hegel and Kant in Harvard Square coffee shops as one would expect given their superior taste.

The fact that they do it in Harvard Sq coffee shops immediately negates the rest of your thesis.

Perhaps they merely discuss local lights like Emerson and Thoreau.

Unfiltered stream of consciousness:

I suspect the unhappiness and flirtiness with Houston is all a part of the negotiation Kabuki dance.  But at the same time, Pettitte does strike me as more thin-skinned, more inclined to take these things personally than most players.

I absolutely can’t help but let sentiment color my perspective when it comes to Pettitte, and this one makes me sad.  Seems a shame that the well has been poisoned if that’s in fact what has happened. 

I would’ve offered $12m and been done with it (assuming he would’ve taken it), for the same reason that there wasn’t as lot of hardball with Mo and Jorge last winter (qualifier: Mo and Jorge were a lot less replaceable than Andy).  This just seems a strange one on which to be dickish.

That said, I agree with:

But right now, I just don’t know what he’s thinking. Does he want to earn 3 million more (maximum) while playing for the 3rd or 4th place Astros instead of playing for the best team in baseball in a new stadium where the fans adore him? This is when I just don’t understand baseball players.

I have no idea what it’s like to be a rich person, but seriously isn’t there a point where you’re set for life and have all the toys you need?  Don’t they assign any value to things other than money (and pride/ego I guess)?  Then again, maybe Laura wants him closer to home again, and that’s a major consideration.

Anyhoo, Pettitte and the Hendrickseseses certainly appear to have misread the market.  Contra ZorakIN in #2, I think the Burrell comparison is apples and oranges (or at least Red Delicious and Granny Smith) but I think you can make a case that Pettitte doesn’t deserve that much more guaranteed money than Smoltz at $5.5m.  He certainly doesn’t deserve Smoltz money x 2.

And as much as we talk about preferring to dump Matsui’s contract, I think it might be time to accept that there’s no market for a $13M defensively challenged LF coming off of knee surgery when there are comparable or better players on the FA market who don’t have health issues.

If the goal is truly to break up a log-jam, there is no reason a trade has to be done until March, right before the season starts.  There may be a larger market for Matsui then: all the FA are signed, perhaps a team loses a significant bat during ST, etc (this may actually increase the value of all the OF).  Plus if Matsui is showing himself to be healthy, he (partially) answers that concern.

Of course, if a deal that makes sense for Damon or Nady or Swisher comes along, they shouldn’t wait hoping to trade Matsui.  But I can still hold out hope that the three they keep can all actually play the field!

I don’t see the Yankees trading any of their “surplus” OF until they know for a fact that Matsui is healthy and can handle full-time DH.  I don’t understand this desire to trade Nady so quickly.  His value isn’t really that high, even packaged with Marte the only blue-chip prospect he fetched was Jose Tabata.  Now he’s a year away from free agency and his performance fell off as a Yankee. 

The Yankees may have one bat too many, but that assumes good health for everyone.  If they lose anyone of Teixeira, Damon or Matsui for any significant amount of time, they’ll wish they had held onto Swisher and/or Nady.

I absolutely can’t help but let sentiment color my perspective when it comes to Pettitte, and this one makes me sad.

There weren’t any actual quotes from anyone in that article.  The closest we came were “people familiar with his thinking”.  So I’m not going to get too upset about anything at this point; for all we know, Andy’s biggest problem is he asked if he could get a “go home if you’re not pitching” clause and Cashman said no, and that’s Andy’s biggest problem.

FWIW, I read an article discussing type A FA pitchers yesterday on FanGraphs.  They’re projecting Pettitte to be worth a little under $16M next year.

The Yankees may have one bat too many, but that assumes good health for everyone.  If they lose anyone of Teixeira, Damon or Matsui for any significant amount of time, they’ll wish they had held onto Swisher and/or Nady.

Which is why of course of those I’d rather lose Matsui.  The other three can all fill in at any OF (to one degree or another), 1B, or DH.  But yeah, unless there are real financial concerns - e.g. saving $4M on Nady would allow Cashman to acquire a player at the deadline he might not otherwise - I’m not in a big hurry to trade anyone.

Matsui’s contract is untreadeable. He will earn 13 million this season, Burrel will earn 8 million. So forget about trading Matsui unless we eat 80% of his contract, which is not a good idea.

Assuming we got value for either Swisher or Nady, would anyone else be willing to tolerate a year of Manny in RF and then sliding him to DH once Matsui leaves?

No?  Just me?  oh well.

Honestly, I think Swisher/Nady + Pettitte > Manny in terms of value, and probably would have a lower salary too.

If they were to get rid of Nady in favor of Baldelli, their outfield would lose a lot of its flexibility especially when taking into consideration:
1.) The health of Baldelli which no-one seems to know (next step is visitation to a Haitian witch doctor)
2.) The durability of Matsui
3.) Damon’s noodle arm

Some might suggest that there’s a log jam at the corner OF spots but that flexibility will be priceless come mid-season. The only reason they should get rid of Nady is to obtain a starting CF, preferably one that will sign a 1 year deal until AJax is ready. That’ll be hard to find.

I don’t understand this desire to trade Nady so quickly.

If you mean desire on the part of some posters here, then I agree.  If you mean desire on the part of the FO, then I’m not sure it exists.

Baldelli to the Red Sox is official (terms not yet disclosed), so we can stop talking about him vs Nady or Swisher.

1.) Arb awards for FA who accept are based on the FA market, not on service time comps.  SO if Nady has a big year, his potential 2010 arb award would not be limited in any way by what he makes in 2009.

Right, but if he has a big year, then of course you want him back, at the very least on the 1 year deal that the he’ll be awarded. The lesson learned we got from Cashman not offering arbitration to Abreu, Giambi, etc., this year doesn’t really apply. Nady will be 31 and the Yankees only have Swisher penciled in for the 2010 OF. The situation dictates that it’s the perfect case for offering arbitration.

I don’t understand this desire to trade Nady so quickly ... Now he’s a year away from free agency and his performance fell off as a Yankee.

If the rumors are a result of teams calling and asking about Nady, then you answered your own question. Perhaps Cashman is trying to sell high on Nady, even though it’s pretty obvious that he’s more a 110 OPS+ than a 125 OPS+ player.

My take on the Nady rumors is not that they’re looking to save a few million, but rather that they think they have a logjam at the corner OF spots and a big question mark in CF.

They certainly have a logjam of corner OFs: Damon, Nady, Swisher, and Matsui (he’s obviously a stretch in the OF, but still.) And they do have a big question mark in CF. But one thing we’re not mentioning is that, while Gardner or Melky would be tough to swallow in CF, if Posada isn’t able to be the full time catcher next year, then that will easily become the biggest problem. Perhaps Cashman is waiting to see if what his biggest need to is going if he wants to deal any one of those guys. The point remains that he doesn’t need to do anything now.

If the FO is looking to get rid of Nady for salary reasons then I find it unlikely that they’re considering Manny at this point.

I know I’m in the minority here but I’m sold on Nady . . . at least until his contract expires. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find another corner OF who can put up similar numbers with that kind of contract.

“Perhaps Cashman is waiting to see if what his biggest need to is going if he wants to deal any one of those guys. The point remains that he doesn’t need to do anything now.”

Right, which is why they might avoid making a move until the trade dealine when they can assess their needs better. Posada alone is a huge question mark.

That’s a fantastic point about Posada, J.  We’re all assuming he can catch next year, and that’s not a gimme.  Posada may be the DH, and we may be looking to trade Nady plus young pitching for a catcher—and no doubt having to take the Red Sox’ leftovers in doing so, since that’s what they’re trying to do right now. 

While on the surface it looks like the Yankees and Pettitte are having an emotional slap fight about who owes who for their years together, I think what’s driving it is the complete uncertainty about what prices really are in this market.  Is the yardstick what the Yanks gave to Sabathia and Burnett, or what the Rays gave Burrell?  Maybe when Lowe and Sheets sign, Pettitte and the Yanks will have a better idea as to what’s fair.

j, a good point re. Posada and the possibility that we need to upgrade behind the plate as we did late last season. 

I also think it’s sensible to give Jorge some DH time (as a means of preservation given that we’re on the hook for him through 2011), but that will increase the logjam.

But I’m coming around to the idea that the logjam isn’t a logjam but depth—
insurance against injury, someone to hit for Melky in the 8th inning of a tie game, etc.  The thing is: what does this team really need right now that trading one of those guys can bring?  None will fetch a can’t-miss prospect.  As someone pointed out above, it would have to be a pure CF, and are there any of those available?

FWIW/BTW, I don’t think benching Melky/Gardner to get all the big lumber in the lineup is a good idea at all.  The defensive dropoff is too great.  Maybe do it only for Wang starts.  So assuming good health all around, one among Nady, Damon, Hideki or Swisher sits on a given day.

I know I’m in the minority here but I’m sold on Nady.

I’m not sure it’s that people are “un-sold” on Nady.  It’s just that he’s the one with trade market value.

I don’t understand this desire to trade Nady so quickly ... Now he’s a year away from free agency and his performance fell off as a Yankee.

I do understand the Yankees looking tirelessly to upgrade. If Nady is part of that deal, then it is what it is.

Nady has great value for us, low-ish cost, righty bat, adequate defense, youth, possibly type A. But he has the same value for other teams too, maybe higher. So if it is to upgrade, the Yanks can make out. But sure, if it’s to dump salary solely or mainly, then the Yanks are wasting a valuable chip.

Nady will be 31 and the Yankees only have Swisher penciled in for the 2010 OF. The situation dictates that it’s the perfect case for offering arbitration.

Fine.  But I was responding to an assertion that Nady represents guaranteed draft pick compensation because offering him arb in 2010 will be a no-brainer simply because his 2009 salary is only going to be around ~$6M.  I was not suggesting that there is no case to be made for offering him arbitration, or even arguing against offering him arbitration for that matter.

I don’t think benching Melky/Gardner to get all the big lumber in the lineup is a good idea at all.  The defensive dropoff is too great.

Based on what?  Over-rating Melky/Gardner’s defense or under-rating Swisher, Nady and Damon?  I’m pretty sure that Swisher/Damon/Nady left to right would project to be right around average defensively.  Counting on more than a one win defensive upgrade by putting Cabrera and/or Gardner in CF is probably a mistake, and I’m willing to be that the offensive downgrade is more than one win.

if it’s to dump salary solely or mainly, then the Yanks are wasting a valuable chip.

The Yankees don’t have to move Nady by any means, which is all the leverage they need. That’s to say, Cashman won’t be taking a talent discount in return, just because a team is willing to take on Nady’s $6M+ salary. So I’m sure a move would be viewed by the Yankee FO as not just salary relief, but a chance to acquire a useful part and/or quality prospect.

...willing to bet...

No reason for Baldelli to not be a Yankee.  Smoltz- a HOFer- also would have been worth a shot (at $5M+ incentives).  If we go into this season with Melkey and Gardner in CF Cash really screwed this up.  I hope he has a plan but signing Baldelli seemed very simple…and don’t say Baldelli wouldn’t have come to The Yanks- he would have.  And Smoltz on a 1yr deal looks a decent shot to be a good 5th Starter.  I like the incentive based contracts.

The Yankees need innings, not upside.  Smoltz doesn’t really give you innings, at least with any confidence.  He had 28 IP last season before getting shut down for major surgery. 

Baldelli isn’t a starter.  Even with the “updated” diagnosis, he’s mostly hoping he can be a 4th OF.

I hope he has a plan but signing Baldelli seemed very simple…and don’t say Baldelli wouldn’t have come to The Yanks- he would have.

Why did it seem so simple?  He had other options.  He was happy in Tampa, and thye probably would have had him back if the price was low enough.  He grew up in Rhode Island rooting for the Sawx, and playing for them is probably a dream come true for him.  I’m pretty sure the Yankees could have signed him if they were really determined to, but I’m also pretty sure it would have required a rather large overpay for a guy who’s a serious health risk.

and don’t say Baldelli wouldn’t have come to The Yanks- he would have.

You know this how? Seems like he spurned more guaranteed money to play near home.

But regardless, I can think of plenty of reasons for Baldelli not to be a Yankee.

I do think you have a point regarding incentive based contracts though. It definitely worked for the Yankees back in 2003/04 with Jon Leiber, but they have generally been avoided since. Not sure why.

“...willing to bet…”

If you bet your life, it’s also “willing to be”.

The Yankees need innings, not upside.

True indeed.

Actually Baldelli wasn’t a Sox fan as a kid, but I suspect those issues mean close to nothing once you sign your first pro deal and see the game for what it really is. RI is practically a suburb of Boston, and he may feel some closeness on those grounds. Surely all his neighbors are Sox fans.

But if I’m Baldelli, I’m going wherever I can to get my career back on track. I think Boston gives him a clear 4th OF slot where he knows he can get a decent number of at-bats. They also did a ton of background work on his medical condition and how to keep it under wraps—not unlike they did with Beckett’s misdiagnosed blister problem. It’s possible that the Sox’ work impressed him. In any event, my guess is he thinks he can turn himself around in Fenway.

Smoltz is scheduled to be ready in, like, June, right?

So that’s fine for the Red Sox to bet $5 million on him being good then, but the Yankees need pitching BEFORE then, right?

Keith Law in his chat just made a good point about Juan Cruz. Since he’d only cost a 4th round draft pick, maybe the Yanks should try to sign him. He is a very good pitcher and the market for him seems slim right now (because other teams DON’T want to give up the 1st round pick for him), so he might be affordable.

If you bet your life, it’s also “willing to be”.

I actually thought about specifically stating that I was not willing to bet my life on this particular proposition, but thought it superfluous.  Not around here, I guess.

(By “need pitching BEFORE then,” I of course mean that if they’re going to SIGN someone, it’s going to be someone who can give them innings the whole year through, like Pettitte, or else they’re just going to go with young guys)

Juan Cruz is a type A FA who was offered and declined arbitration?  Who knew?

If we go into this season with Melkey and Gardner in CF Cash really screwed this up?

How?  Because he didn’t overpay for Cameron (I’m assuming at this point the Brewers asked for too much in $$‘s or players)?  Because he didn’t sell the farm to get…nobody that was available?  You can’t always have a star at every position, and sometimes you just have to throw a kid out in the field and see what he can do.

Worst, WORST case is Melky or Gardner really suck.  I mean OPS+ under 50 suck.  And in that case Damon or Swisher will be playing CF before April is out, and Cashman will figure out how to upgrade CF by July (which may or may not be AJax).

“but thought it superfluous.”

For “you” read “one”.  I actually thought about noting in [54] that you surely weren’t willing to bet your life, but ...

“Beckett’s misdiagnosed blister problem”

What’s the story on that?

I want to know what the hell Varitek was thinking in declining.

Yeah, last season, mid-year, Cruz and Fuentes were two guys that I thought that the Yankees might actually have a need for this year. Of course, after that point, the bullpen fully soldified and a guy like Cruz seemed like an unnecessary luxury, but if the draft pick ends up knocking his price down so low that he’d be affordable, I think he’s worth a look.

He’d certainly make people stop clamoring for someone to pitch the 8th!

Since he’d only cost a 4th round draft pick, maybe the Yanks should try to sign him.

For what?  They don’t really need another reliever, and he hasn’t started a game since 2006.

For what?  They don’t really need another reliever, and he hasn’t started a game since 2006.

Just to be evil, why else?

“Beckett’s misdiagnosed blister problem”

I guess “misdiagnose” is the word du jour, huh?  Beckett’s blister problem wasn’t misdiagnosed.  How do you misdiagnose a freakin’ blister?  He really did have the problem of frequently getting blisters on the fingers of his pitching hand.  Calling it a skin condition and finding a special super-secret salve for it doesn’t change the fact that he used to get blisters.  Anyway, I’m not buying the story on the fancy treatment anyway.  I’m quite confident that he’s just using the Moises Alou/Jorge Posada cure.

Just to be evil, why else?

Oh.  Go get him then.  Have James Earl Jones do the initial call to his agent

Actually Baldelli wasn’t a Sox fan as a kid, but I suspect those issues mean close to nothing once you sign your first pro deal and see the game for what it really is. RI is practically a suburb of Boston, and he may feel some closeness on those grounds. Surely all his neighbors are Sox fans.

maybe, but they sure made a big deal about it during the ALCS.  how he brought his little brother onto the field at Fenway and how hitting the HR at Fenway was a dream come true, yada yada.  sure seemed like he was a fan.  at the least, people in his family are Red Sox fans.

OMG, ANOTHER TEAM SIGNED PLAYERS!! WHAT IS CAHSMAN DOING?!!!!  WE SHOULD HAVE EVERY PLAYER!!

OMG, ANOTHER TEAM SIGNED PLAYERS!! WHAT IS CAHSMAN DOING?!!!!  WE SHOULD HAVE EVERY PLAYER!!

Sure, laugh now…

“Beckett’s misdiagnosed blister problem”

What’s the story on that?

The blisters were related to eczema. Once they diagnosed and treated the eczema, the blisters mostly went away. Not totally, but controllable.

maybe, but they sure made a big deal about it during the ALCS.  how he brought his little brother onto the field at Fenway and how hitting the HR at Fenway was a dream come true, yada yada.  sure seemed like he was a fan.  at the least, people in his family are Red Sox fans.

Right. He may not have been a fan, but I’m sure the Sox were an inescapable presence. All I know is Massarotti reported that his interest wasn’t about boyhood allegiances because he wasn’t a Sox fan as a kid. I have some cousins in RI who are yankee fans, so apparently apostasy is common down there.

I want to know what the hell Varitek was thinking in declining.

Exactly. Apparently the union pushes guys to decline, and surely Boras thought he could do the reverse Jedi mind trick on some GM. Looks like hiring Boras doesn’t mean you’ll get better advice than you could’ve had for free reading Sons of Sam Horn.

You guys are like the Sawks Kool-Aid drinkers: Cashman is a genius no matter what happens- if he gets Teix, it’s a heist and he got one over on Theo, etc.  If Baldelli goes to Bahston- he wouldn’t have come here anyway so it’s not Cash’s fault. 

I’m going to wait and see how much Baldelli costs but, regardless, don’t you think it is a major oversight if we go into this season with Melky and Gardner in CF?  Unless they really see Melky’s Dominican League performance I think he is a major risk.

But Pags, isn’t the Yankees’ plan to find a starter? Baldelli’s not really a starter just yet. Maybe he could do it, but I can see how Cashman might not think of him as a good fit.

I’m going to wait and see how much Baldelli costs but, regardless, don’t you think it is a major oversight if we go into this season with Melky and Gardner in CF?

No, I don’t.  They upgraded the offense by getting Tex at 1st.  They upgraded the bench by getting Swisher, and if Melky/Gardner fails Swisher (or Damon) can play CF.  Baldelli would have been nice to have, but he’s as big a risk to *not* play enough games in CF to have an impact as Melky/Gardner is to suck. 

Heck, even MC in VA hasn’t been complaining much about the CF situation since the Tex signing, and he’s convinced having Melky or Gardner in CF is the same as spotting the other team 2 runs (j/k)!

Cashman is a genius no matter what happens- if he gets Teix, it’s a heist and he got one over on Theo, etc.  If Baldelli goes to Bahston- he wouldn’t have come here anyway so it’s not Cash’s fault.

Nobody said anything remotely resembling any of that.  You’re being an ass.  That’s OK, it happens to the best of us sometimes.

I’m going to wait and see how much Baldelli costs

You don’t have to wait.  It’s $500K guaranteed with $1.75M in roster bonuses (basically a “stay off the DL” bonus) and up to $5.25M in performance bonuses (plate appearances, and I doubt that he’ll get to 600 and collect the full amount).

but, regardless, don’t you think it is a major oversight if we go into this season with Melky and Gardner in CF?

I do happen to think that it’s a mistake to go into the season with either of those guys as the starting CF.  But I’d bet you a dollar that Johnny Damon would be in CF if the season started tomorrow.

I’m going to wait and see how much Baldelli costs but, regardless, don’t you think it is a major oversight if we go into this season with Melky and Gardner in CF?

Here are some details on Baldelli’s deal.  His base pay is $500K and he stands to make ~$7.5M if he hits all the incentive clauses.  Considering one of those clauses is contingent on making 600 PAs, I’d say it’s a sure bet he won’t get all that cash. 

Now, as for your other points, I don’t think anyone’s drinking anyone else’s Kool-Aid.  Yes, Baldelli would be nice to have as a 4th/5th OFer, which is what the Sox signed him to be.  He will NOT be a starter, he just can’t be, his health won’t allow him to, despite the new diagnosis.  Which means that at most you’re talking ~100-130 PAs, right?  Baldelli is a nice piece to have on the bench, but he is not going to save you from Melky or Gardner in CF.

I have mention Juan Cruz before and I like that idea while fully admitting I know very little about him.  He has started before- perhaps he can piggy-back on Joba’s or Hughes’ starts ealy in the year to keep them under the inning limit and then eventually transition back to a middle reliever.  This may be better than Pettitte.  Perhaps Cruz+Baldelli>Pettitte

Dude, the Baldelli ship has sailed.  Let it go…

he’s convinced having Melky or Gardner in CF is the same as spotting the other team 2 runs

It’s only a run and a half.  Don’t put words in my mouth, dammit!

Baldelli’s not really a starter just yet.

I don’t think Pags views Baldelli as a starter.  He just seem to think that a Rocco/Melky platoon has some enormous Gestaltic upside that’s just too good to pass up.

And ym owes me a coke.

Would you care for some Kool-Aid instead?

That deal at that price would have been PERFECT for The Yanks.  Melky and Gardner can play CF but their hitting is suspect at best.  If you can make a case for eitheer of them with the bat it would be as a platoon against LHP.  Baldelli hits RHP so Baldelli at even $2M guaranteed would have been worth a shot, no?  The answer is yes UNLESS (1)The Yanks have some reason to believe that 2008 was a fluke year for Melky or (2)they are getting a real CFer.  If you don’t beleive (*1) or (2)then Baldelli made total sense.

You guys are like the Sawks Kool-Aid drinkers: Cashman is a genius no matter what happens- if he gets Teix, it’s a heist and he got one over on Theo, etc.  If Baldelli goes to Bahston- he wouldn’t have come here anyway so it’s not Cash’s fault. 

I’m going to wait and see how much Baldelli costs but, regardless, don’t you think it is a major oversight if we go into this season with Melky and Gardner in CF?

no, what you seem to missing is that Baldelli is not an everyday CFer and you are acting as if he is one.

he’d be GREAT for the bench, and yes, if Cashman got him i’d have been fired up.

but how far was he supposed to go for a guy who has played 155 games over the last FOUR seasons? 

it’s a good pickup for Boston, no question.

but the outrage over not getting him is WAY out of proportion to what Baldelli can be expected to deliver next year.

What flavor?  I can stomach the grape, but that’s about it.  And it’s got to be the real stuff with actual sugar.  None of this goddamn nutrasweet crap.

Let’s see.  The Yankees signed the three best free agents available this offseason and some people are bitching that they missed out on a guy who MIGHT get 150 PAs?  Yeah, makes sense.

MC- I know from your past posts that you have no love for Melky or Gardner in CF- what’s your solution?  Do you think $500K would have been a burden for The Yanks?  What about $1.5M?

Baldelli has a career OBP of .325, so I agree with yup, “the outrage over not getting him is WAY out of proportion to what Baldelli can be expected to deliver next year.”

As a minor point, perhaps adding him now would have added to their urgency to trade one of the surplus outfielders, reducing some of Cashman’s leverage and flexibility.

If you can make a case for eitheer of them with the bat it would be as a platoon against LHP.  Baldelli hits RHP so Baldelli at even $2M guaranteed would have been worth a shot, no?

you have it backwards.

Gardner is lefty and Baldelli is righty with a severe platoon split.

this is Baldelli’s career line against RHP: .276/.316/.427

here is Melky’s career line against RHP: .275/.334/.393

i don’t think Baldelli is actually as good as people remember him.

again, i like it from the Sox’s POV, b/c they have traded about 3 decent 4th OFers in the last 1.5 years (Murphy, Crisp, and Moss) and they needed someone for that role.

I’m not a Dr but I trust The Sox have good ones.  And this is the conclusion from a scientific article on his re-diagnosis of channelopathy: 

“Fortunately, it is very treatable, especially if the newer diagnosis is an accurate one, and Baldelli should be able to get his illness under control and go to sign whatever free agent contract his heart desires”

what’s your solution?

Asked and answered.

Baldelli has an 841 career OPS against LHP.  Im not saying Baldelli is a God- all I’m saying is that CF needs to be addressed unless Damon (injury risk and no arm) or Swisher can play (Cash said no Swish) or Melky improves.  Maybe just go with one of those 3 options and wait to see if a mid-season trade is neccessary…but for $500K I think Baldelli was worth throwing into the mix.

From what I understand channelopathy isn’t one disease. It’s a family of related diseases.

For example, Cystic Fibrosis is a type of channelopathy and isn’t really treatable at this time.

I agree that there is a real gap between people’s perception of Baldelli as a player and what he’s actually accomplished.  I wonder why that is?  He’s elicited far more attention than he seems to have warranted - and that’s not just from yankee fans.  It seems like the fans of many teams thought he was just the perfect fit for their team despite all of the issues involved.  Seems odd.

Do you think $500K would have been a burden for The Yanks?  What about $1.5M?

you have a player who *probably* has a preference of Boston over NY for all of the personal reasons outlined earlier.

if he stays healthy he’ll get $2.25M from Boston.

given that it’s reasonable to assume he preferred Boston, how could the Yankees get him for $500K?  or $1.5M?

doesn’t simple logic tell us that the Yankees would have to OUTBID Boston?

now we are talking about $3-4M for a guy who hasn’t been healthy since 2004.

Firstly, can you please provide a link to this “scientific” article?  There is a whole slew of channelopathies, some of which can be just as deadly as whatever he was diagnosed with originally.

but for $500K I think Baldelli was worth throwing into the mix.

but you can’t have him for $500K.

snowshoe in [95] beat me to it.

re-diagnosis of channelopathy

I realize that you’re just quoting what you’ve read, but the diagnosis always was a chanelopathy.  He doesn’t have a new diagnosis, and he didn’t have a misdiagnosis before.  It’s still a mitochondrial disorder and it will still affect his strength and stamina, even with treatment.  The difference is that he’s had more sophisticated testing which has pinpointed the nature of the defect more precisely which should allow for better treatment and control of the condition.  It doesn’t mean he’s all better and can be counted on to play well over the course of a full season.  I’m not making this up.  Baldelli has said as much himself.

And that’s still completely ignoring all of the other injuries he’s had.