It sucks that he, uh, sucks but, what’s the alternative? An OF of Damon, Gardner and Melky?

Neyer had a blog-posting yesterday/today (paraphrasing) about how Girardi deserves credit for realizing that what a player did during the season is more indicative of how they’ll do going forward than a few playoff games.

It wasn’t that long ago people were calling for Damon to be benched, and then he got hot.

Around the same time they thought Melky should get benched, and he got hot.

While no one wanted to bench Tex, there was some talk (not sure how serious) of moving him down to 5th, and then he got hot.

Yeah, it sucks that Swisher hasn’t hit.  But this offense shouldn’t need NICK SWISHER to score runs.  He’s no better than the 5th or 6th best player (offensively) on this team.

[2] So you’re saying that complaining actually works. Can we issue preemptive benching calls for A-Rod and CC so he stays hot ?

Someone- a Yankee fan- tried to convince me that AJ has better control than CC.

I felt bad for Swish yesterday. He looked like 06 A-rod when he struck out like 6 times in 8 ab or whatever it was.

Is it logical or complete fallacy to assert that Swisher HAS to turn it around at some point in the next few games?

Swish is ice cold, unfortunately.  Man, it would’ve been awesome if he’d come through there.  Sigh.  He got a 3-2 fastball up and out over the plate and missed it.  Poor bastard.

If there’s a rainout tomorrow, do you throw CC on Sunday, or go with Pettitte and hope he brings his A game?

Swisher had a pretty big hit in game 1 of the ALDS, and hit a couple of other balls hard in that game.  He’s had some terrible games since then, but he’s also hit some at ‘em balls and warning track flies that might have left the yard on other nights.  The backwards K’s are frustrating as hell, but I think we all know that those are going to happen with a guy like him.

[5] Both?

Look on the bright side - at least there’s a baseball game this weekend.

Can we get Wilson Betemit back?

Didn’t the White Sox release him?  If so, he’s ready, willing and able to step in when called upon.  He’s got nothing better to do right now.  (I’m guessing; he doesn’t look like a golfer.)

Speaking of Betemit, Marquez would have totally struck out Guerrero.

It doesn’t appear that Swisher is hitting into bad luck as much as it seems that he is grinding the bat into sawdust. He said after the game that he is getting too hyped up. So I would start Gardner even against Saunders.

Gardner has like.. what.. 1 AB in the last 3 weeks? And Swisher put up an OPS+ of 126? He’s going through a rough patch. Would it surprise you to see him hit a 3 run HR on Saturday?

[13] Would it surprise you to see him hit a 3 run HR on Saturday?

In a situation that mattered…yes.

Swisher couldn’t even get a sac fly in two different ABs in Game 3.

[14] You should adjust your expectation. Swisher is a good hitter in a slump. It happens.

The Yankees have played 8 playoff games so far.  I’m sure you find multiple 8 game stretches in the regular season where Swisher- or ARod for that matter- are awful.  It’s gotta happen to someone in the playoffs.  It’s not like he changed his approach- he worked the count to 3-2 and got a fat pitch to hit.  Unfortunately he popped it up.  The question is, do we think it’s possible for him to break out of his slump in the next 2 games? That’s a tough call but judging by the fact that he popped up a pitch down the middle I’d say he’s not getting closer.  You could see Teix putting better swings on the ball his last few AB’s but not sure I can say that about Swish.  Still, I think I’d stick with him because the fact that Saunders is LHP means Gardner’s value (speed) is somewhat minimized.

[16] I don’t think it takes that much of a progression to break out of a slump. It seems to me that one could come out of one instantly, much the same way that one could fall into one with little to no prior warning.

[15] I don’t disagree about a slump, but as I said on the previous thread, a prolonged slump by a non-core player (I would almost never remove a core player) can cost you a series. In the regular season, resting a slumping player for a game can sometimes give him the perspective to get him untracked. I don’t think that line of thinking is inapplicable now.

That’s a tough call

Is it? I don’t think it’s a tough call. It is absolutely ‘possible’ for him to break out of his slump in the next two games. The guy hit 29 HR’s this year. Gardner doesn’t even compare to Swisher offensively.

non-core player

I’m not sure what you mean by core player. Swisher was the starting RF for basically the entire season. He was 3rd on the team in HR, 4th in RBI, 4th in doubles, and essentially tied for 3rd for 4th in OPS+ on the best offensive MLB team.

essentially tied for 4th in OPS+

[19] Gardner doesn’t even compare to Swisher offensively.

If, as Neyer has said, that even though Molina doesn’t compare to Posada offensively, for one game the difference is very small, the same logic holds true about Gardner and Swisher.

I’m not sure what you mean by core player. Swisher was the starting RF for basically the entire season. He was 3rd on the team in HR, 4th in RBI, 4th in doubles, and essentially tied for 3rd for 4th in OPS+ on the best offensive MLB team.

A player that is part of the foundation of the team. Swisher is replaceable. Jeter, A-Rod, Teix, CC, Mariano (and Posada, imo) aren’t.

Agreed, but assume Gardner hits/runs/fields like he is expected to but there is a 50% chance Swish stays like he is, 25% chance he does better, and a 25% chance he does what is expected, or just assume he is 90% of his average at the plate and average in the field: is he still preferred over Gardner?  I’d assume that he probably is, especially against LHP.

a prolonged slump by a non-core player

Define - and I’m not trying to be sarcastic here, I really want to know - what the difference between a “core” and “non-core” player is.  According to FanGraphs he was the Yankees 6th most valueable player (after defense and adjustments) and 5th most valueable hitter.  And it is less than a win gap between 3rd (Arod) and 6th.  At the very least, there’s a HUGE gap between him, and the guys who you might replace him with (Gardner, Hairston). 

I’d get your point if we were talking the difference between maybe Damon and Nady, with the lefty going anyway.  Or Melky and Gardner (though Melky is playing well now).  But other than CF, the gap between the starter and replacement is pretty big right now.

Gardner had a long stretch at AAA when he hit LH pitching better than RH pitching. He’s also better at hitting LHP this season (with sample size caveats):

v. L: .291   .381   .400   .781 (55AB)
v. R: .264   .335   .373   .708 (193 AB)

Whoops, you answer than in [23].  I guess my thing still is though we’re not talking about whether or not we should trade Swisher in the off-season.  I think your definition applies fine for that.

[23] Seriously?

[26] Seriously?

Eh…let Swish keep going.  He’s had a bad string.  What can you do?

The one thing that disappointed me regarding Girardi yesterday was that AJ wasn’t on a one-man-on hook in the seventh.  I thought Robertson should have been warming between the innings and set to come in after (if) any runner got on.  But whatever.  1 out of 3 in Anaheim is a fair expectation, and the Yanks have two chances to close out the series at home.  Let’s see what they do.

[25] I did at [23]. There is virtually no one I would trade Jeter, A-Rod, Teix, CC, Mariano for (I might include Posada as well). They are elite players and potential HoFers. Swisher is basically a fungible hitter, above average to be sure, but a little erratic, and eminently replaceable.

[28] Oh please.

[28] A quick note: We are talking about one freakin’ game.

Don’t bench swisher, but I don’t think this is some regular slump. He’s pretty much said himself that he’s been getting nervous.

Don’t bench Swisher unless you want to make a head-case out of him.

Rich, I was more noting the fact that Gardner’s value-add in the form of potential SB’s is diminished vs. LHP.

The other part of this argument is that there is no chance Girardi is going to bench Swisher for Gardner.

He might drop him to 9th.

Benching Swish is a panic move.  No.

I see Tex coming around.  And Robinson.  Those guys looked TERRIBLE for much of this series. 

Swish may or may not come around before the Yankees are done playing baseball in 2009.  But I do not want the manager to bench him because of ~20 bad PAs.

There’s another guy in the lineup with the following line: .174/.269/.217. Bench him? Bat him 9th? Come on guys. Losses suck, but let’s not get crazy.

It’s been dry all week but of course it’s supposed to rain buckets Saturday night.  I’m not sure I can deal sanely with a rainout on top of last night.

Games 1 and 2 were supposed to be the sequel to noah’s ark.

Please, someone tell me that this sick feeling I have that this series is going 7 games is ridiculous. Please?

Don’t bench swisher, but I don’t think this is some regular slump. He’s pretty much said himself that he’s been getting nervous.

Give him an ativan. or a drink.

Cut back on the Red Bull.

[42]  It’s ridiculous.  Or something you ate.

So it’s going to be a double header on Sunday if there is rain Saturday? Because I’m been led to believe there are exorbitant cost and logistical nightmares if there are any tinkering to the schedule.

Or should we just wait for Jon’s weather report?

I made a remark that Hughes last pitch to Vlad should have been out of the zone and was informed by a response it was supposed to be high. I went back to the video and found it interesting that Posada early before the pitch rose up slightly and did hold the glove up but closer to the delivery he sat back down and placed his glove more toward the center of the plate which is exactly where the pitch came in.  To some degree then he was calling for a higher pitch but he didn’t maintain the glove level as a target.  And yes, I think it was possible to do that without getting clobbered by Vlad’s bat coming around.

Catcher positioning is not about just giving the pitcher a target. MLB pitchers should be able to throw the ball to a spot even if the glove isn’t there when they release the ball.

(48) Not arguing your point, just found it interesting that he shifted his glove down just before taking the pitch

[47] I think it’s one thing for AJ or a different starter to get a personal catcher, but it’s infeasible for teh ate guy to have a personal catcher. In the late innings especially, Posada’s bat become that much more of a difference maker. I don’t want to put words on your comment, but I think Hughes will just have to suck it up and throw to the horrible game calling,terrible ball blocking, and, out of context, putrid base running catcher.

[49] Are you the sequence was glove position then ball released, and not the other way around? Seems likely Posada moved his glove to the center of the plate.. to catch it.

Swisher couldn’t even get a sac fly in two different ABs in Game 3.

With Matsui on third, you pretty much have to hit it to the warning track.  One of those PAs is an easy sac fly with any Yankee baserunner other than him or Posada.

Because I’m been led to believe there are exorbitant cost and logistical nightmares if there are any tinkering to the schedule.

They could play Monday and Tuesday without messing up anybody’s plans for Wednesday.

...Posada early before the pitch rose up slightly and did hold the glove up but closer to the delivery he sat back down…

This is what catcher’s always do.  If you stay up there too long, the hitter will notice.

(50) was nowhere remotely going there vill. I wasn’t suggesting anything of the sort. I guess we are all in a pretty depressed state today.  (51) Take a look for yourself, my take was he came down a bit early, but its not lost on me he gave a plain signal to Phil to keep it high, so I don’t fault Jorge.

With Matsui on third, you pretty much have to hit it to the warning track

Thought he scored from first the other day on a double. Seemed like a track star at the time. What knee problem?

[53] I guess, as MC might say, I wasn’t being funny enough.

[55] I’m confident that we’ll come out of our slumps eventually, too.

(55) My humor sensors aren’t functioning too well today. How did you all sleep last night? Me not so good. Like most of you realize this seems extra important due to the liklihood that it will be hard to get back to this point with several aging stars and I just don’t want to see them blow it. That and it really has been a fun season to date.

[52] But if they play Monday and Tuesday then they mess up my non-baseball plans for those nights.

[58] I agree, the playoffs are draining on fans and detrimental to work, relationships, and social life.

Swisher is so bad I could swear he must be on the Mets instead of the Yankees.

[57]  Really?  I think they’re set up fairly well to get back here (if by here you mean ALCS) for the next several years.  Other than Pettitte and Mo, pitching’s not old (and Mo will never age), and some of the younger-guns will just be at a point they’ll be reaching their potential.  Position players yes there are some holes.  But Cano, Swish, and Teix are all solid players 30 and under next year, ARod should have a good 4-5 years in him (before he’s just good, not otherworldly).  They have a slew of catchers (one of whom may DH and hit 100 HR a year) on the way. 

I guess I’m just not that worried. Sure, it won’t be easy replacing a lot of the veteran talent who will be declining/retiring in coming years.  But they’ll find a way.

[60] If only this team had Reggie Sanders.

Nothing worse than an off-day after a playoff game loss.

It’s too bad they can’t move the start time up tomorrow.

I guess I’m just not that worried.

Okay, so it’s all Mike’s fault. The Yankee players feed off of our collective worrying, ya know.

Ranking of worst PS Swisher-Joba-Giradi-Aceves-Hughes in that order.

Joba has been brutal, and remarkably, rather lucky too. He actually almost looks worse relieving than he did starting.

Swisher is so bad I could swear he must be on the Mets instead of the Yankees.

That may be become true soon enough.

So… Girardi’s utter confusion in the 7th inning was not the reason they lost? Well, I am relieved!

Yeah all the people who were clamoring to move Joba to the bullpen forgot his 1st inning struggles as a starter.  It seems to me now Robertson should be ahead of Joba and I wonder if we get to the WS if they might not sub Bruney for Joba.  This team desperately needs Hughes to be good to succeed.

[67] As ted might say, he certainly has a type.

Joba’s shown flashes. He struck out Mighty Mathis. Hughes has been more disappointing since we expected a lot more from him.

Bruney has to be sitting there thinking “I could do that…”

Memo to Girardi:

Do what you did all year to win, don’t panic when you get a lead.  If you warm a guy up because you want to him to pitch in the inning, don’t change your mind at the last second and put someone else in the game.  Use the guys that got you there in the same roles in which they were successful before.  Don’t panic, and make sure you have a towel.

So… Girardi’s utter confusion in the 7th inning was not the reason they lost? Well, I am relieved!

No, but he didn’t put the players in the best possible position to win the game, which is his primary job.

I think Girardi over relies on Mo. He manages his bullpen basically for Mo to enter in the 8th. Which is really great in that Mo is awesome. But also burns through a lot of relievers for essentially one or two batters, and a lot of pitching changes.

The only positive Joba is showing is an occasional great slider. The velocity is there but the nasty break is really inconsistent. That one slider he buried in the ALDS in game 2 (I think) was brilliant. Aside from that…

Girardi bares little to no blame for yesterday’s loss unlike Monday’s.  Burnett, Hughes and Swisher are the perps.  Now if we had gone to extra innings and his pinch running genius move had come back to bite us it would have been a different story.

I think Girardi properly understands that Mo is a god, and should be used as much as possible in high leverage situations.  His use of Mo is the one thing I really like so far.

My issues with him:

1) He believes Joba > Robertson. 
2) Excessive pinch running.
3) The Quest for the Almighty Matchup.  I’m fine with use of situational relievers (Coke/Marte for lefties, etc).  But he’s clearly taken it a bit too far.

Thinking about it some more, however, if he’s prepared to use Mo in the 8th, maybe he should just start the 8th with Mo and forget trying to squeeze an out or two from 4 different relievers in front of Mo.

Or, alternatively, Hughes & Co could do their jobs and Joe would look smart…

I blame Burnett, Hughes, and Swisher more as well, but Girardi does deserve some blame for leaving AJ in for two batters in the 7th which made Hughes’s job much harder than it needed to be.

His pinch running is annoying.

[78] and [79], I pretty much agree that Girardi is using Mo pretty well, but I guess he’s also setting up, for the rest of the relievers, a bail out mentality, as in, incremental outs until Mo is brought in. Bottom line, it’s on the relievers to perform, and overall, with some flashes of good pitching, they haven’t. So they might deserve Girardi’s lack of confidence.

You can say Girardi is using his pen with a win now approach, but the more I see it, the more I think he’s using his pen in an afraid to lose situation.

I would have taken AJ out after the first hit but that was a close call and I don’t think you can really blame Girardi.  AJ and/Hughes had to maintain the lead.

Girardi bares little to no blame for yesterday’s loss unlike Monday’s.  Burnett, Hughes and Swisher are the perps. 

1. Burnett was in the game in the 7th because Girardi put him there.
2. Burnett pitched to a second batter in the 7th because Girardi let him
3. Hughes was in the game because Girardi put him there, after warming up someone else first, then changing his mind for some reason.
4. Swisher’s AB in the 9th is meaningless if Girardi doesn’t mismanage the 7th.

I’d say he bears the lion’s share of the blame.  But hey, if you think those were all good moves, moves that you were used to seeing when NY won all those games in the regular season, then I am 100% wrong.

hey I need someone to tell me it’s going to be ok. OK?

I would have taken AJ out after the first hit but that was a close call and I don’t think you can really blame Girardi.

I dunno - that’s kind of his job.  I’m not saying Girardi is entirely to blame;  there’s a lot to go around.  But a manager sort of makes his name in such situations.
Leaving A.J. in to start the 7th was one thing.  I disagreed with it, but wasn’t incredibly upset when I saw it - and I didn’t think it was a colossal mistake.  But not taking him out after the hit was a mistake.  Your team just scored 6 runs in the previous inning to take a 2 run lead.  You are 9 outs from a pennant.  I really don’t think you sit on your hands and pray that A.J. doesn’t have another one of his implosion innings there.  At the first sign of trouble, you make a move.  At least, I would have.

I don’t think anyone would say it was the wrong call to give Burnett the hook right after that leadoff hit.  The following walk changed everything.  It allowed Scoscia to small ball the two runners over to second(tying run) and third.

Looking back on it, I try and picture the situation as a clean slate starting in the bottom of the 7th.  If you have to get 9 outs to win the ALCS, who would you send up there.  Disregard that Burnett had held the Angels scoreless for 5 innings.  That really works both ways since you can argue that he could easily be getting tired (he did have to sit through a fairly long top of the seventh).  If I needed 9 outs, do I want Burnett out there?  It’s a tough call but I think I would chose nine out of ten times to go with Robertson or Hughes to start the inning.

I can’t disagree with Jon but I would have brought in Hughes to pitch to Aybar and then used Mo as soon as Hughes allowed a baseruner in the 8th.  But would Phil have done the job??  It couldn’t have turned out worse.

Hughes was in the game because Girardi put him there, after warming up someone else first, then changing his mind for some reason.

The reason that he changed his mind was pretty obvious.  He warmed Joba up when he was thinking of not sending Burnett back out for the seventh.  Once the inning got to two on with no out and lefties due up, he went to a lefty.  When he wanted to go back to a righty after the leverage had increased, he went with Hughes over Joba.

There’s a lot to criticize in Girardi’s moves and we’ve pretty much covered it all and then some, but we’d all have gone even more batshit crazy if he’d brought in anybody but Hughes or Rivera once it got to Hunter and Guerrero with the tying run on third.

Swisher’s AB in the 9th is meaningless if Girardi doesn’t mismanage the 7th.

Had Swisher delivere after Cano singled in the 7th insterad of striking out, the 9th also might not have mattered!

Remember, too, that AJ got two strikes on Aybar before losing him (& the 4th pitch was a Gameday high strike).  It wasn’t like he was a mess from jump with Aybar.