I thought the offseason started around Sept. 30th.  Playoff ratings seem to agree.

If I were not the Frog but some one else, I would point out that I picked the Phillies to win the WS at the beginning of this playoffs season.  I know: I had a roughly 1/8 chance, so the odds weren’t particularly long. 

Regardless, I am the Frog, so I won’t be crowing about being right.

Play nice, Kermit.

It’s 10 days after the series that players officially become FA right?  I think the first thing the Yankees should do is fly CC into NY, and have Jeter and Girardi there (at least).  Do the tour of the new Stadium, show him places he could live, and take him anywhere else he wants to go.  Start out by showing him why he should want to be a Yankee, and THEN make an offer a day or two later.  Thoughts?

Great plan, Mike. I see that “give him a grand tour of the city’s donut joints” is conspicuously absent, however. A major oversight.

No, they should fly the private plane with Jeter, Girardi and Cashman in it, pick him up and fly him back.

Jeter, Girardi and Cashman in it
Don’t forget Jeter’s harem.

For any Scrubs enthusiasts here, John C. McGinley (a.k.a Dr. Cox) has been interviewed by Alex Belth at Bronx Banter for his Yankee Stadium memories. No great trademark sarcasm of Dr. Cox, but still an entertaining read.

Jeter, Girardi and Cashman in it
Don’t forget Jeter’s harem.

And if they don’t get him, it’s A-Rod’s fault.

from the last thread:

Anyone else think Maddon blew it by not starting the 7th with Price?

yes.  and how do you let the pitcher hit when you have 8 offensive outs left in the game?

wait…the offseason just started…?

yes.  and how do you let the pitcher hit when you have 8 offensive outs left in the game?

...especially when he’s a lefty and a right-handed power bat is due to start the next inning.  I mean, If you know you’re going to Bradford against Victorino anyway, what are you doing letting your platoon mismatch pitcher go up to plate?  Just a bad, bizarre move.

it really was a terrible decision.

it’s made worse by the fact that he had 3 days to think about it, and was determined to use Howell against Burrell. 

it reminded me a little of how Torre let Pettitte hit with a man on 3B and a 1 run lead in the 9th inning of the 1996 WS.  with Rivera, Wetteland, and Lloyd in the bullpen. 

that decision wasn’t as bad b/c he wanted Pettitte to pitch to Chipper, but it was still a head scratcher even back then.

It was the worst WS pitching decision I’ve seen since Jeff Weaver.

It was the worst WS pitching decision I’ve seen since Jeff Weaver.

I know, I mean.. how stupid can you be to let Jeff Weaver even throw 1 pitch in the World Series?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN200610270.shtml

j, so . . . your point is that Weaver’s 2006 game justifies Torre’s 2003 decision?  I am absolutely helpless in the face of your logic.

If I see one more “f” replaced with “ph” I am going to phucking kill someone.

I think it might be better to go with Jeter, Jeter’s harem… and maybe wait until he’s signed before introducing Girardi.

“If I see one more “f” replaced with “ph” I am going to phucking kill someone.”

Couldn’t see this coming a month off, could we?

Maddon blew the series by not starting the 6th with his starter Shields. He could have used Garza and Kazmir in games 6 and 7. But who the fuck cares about games 6 and 7 when you are loosing 3-1 the WS.

I remember perfectly how well Francona used Foulke against us in 2004. He pitched since the 7th inning of Game 4 and pitched in every high leverage situation he could pitch in the series. Thats how you manage a bullpen in the postseason, you can’t think about the future when the present is so important.

I remember perfectly how well Francona used Foulke against us in 2004. He pitched since the 7th inning of Game 4 and pitched in every high leverage situation he could pitch in the series.

are you implying that the 9th inning of a 19-8 game isn’t “high leverage”?

are you implying that the 9th inning of a 19-8 game isn’t “high leverage”?

Tom Gordon was pitching with that lead in game 3 right??

But that wasn’t the worst of the mistakes that Torre made that series. I couldn’t understand that Gordon was pitching the 8th inning in game 5 with the Yanks leading by two runs and Ortiz was coming to the plate. Mariano had to pitch the 8th and 9th in that game. And in fact he did that, but with the tying run on 3rd and no outs in the 8th.

maybe wait until he’s signed before introducing Girardi

Bad idea, because then he thinks you *don’t* want him to meet Girardi.  If there are concerns about Girardi’s ability to sell the team, give him acting lessons or something.  Or have a plane with flight-attendants like Tony Stark’s…

22. Oh my God, it’s so terrible. What the hell was Torre thinking? If Mo gets the last six outs, how many days do the Yankees have off before the World Series starts? Was he worried about saving Mo’s arm? Hell, Mo’s liable to throw under 35 pitches over two innings if he’s really on his game. What utter insanity. I will never get over this. Or these Torre classics:

2002: ALDS Game 2: Eighth inning. Inexplicably refuses to remove El Duque, tiring in a rare relief appearance, after he gives up a game tying home run to Garrett Anderson. Troy Glaus proceeds to give the Angels a lead they wouldn’t relinquish. The Yankees never recover.

2003: Weaver. Also trusting Enrique Wilson’s small sample dominance over Pedro Martinez.

2004: Ugh.

2006 ALDS: Managed one of the worst series of all time. Benches Giambi against RHP Bonderman, plays him against LHP Rogers. Benches Sheffield against LHP Rogers, plays him against RHP Bonderman. Hits A-Rod eighth in game four, which Gary Sheffield later claimed had a real negative impact on team morale. This was after he penciled Rodriguez in the sixth hole for game one; something Torre hadn’t done all season. Hey, it’s not like A-Rod was coming off a great September or anything. Way to make your players comfortable Joe!

Torre… I truly believe he was a great manager. But he lost it, somewhere along the way. I’m glad I could get this off my chest.

Is anyone else concerned that the Yankees don’t seem to be targeting Tex?

Maddon blew the series by not starting the 6th with his starter Shields. He could have used Garza and Kazmir in games 6 and 7. But who the fuck cares about games 6 and 7 when you are loosing 3-1 the WS.

The 4 inning game should have been advantage Rays, right? 

Has the Yankees signed anyone yet?

it reminded me a little of how Torre let Pettitte hit with a man on 3B and a 1 run lead in the 9th inning of the 1996 WS.  with Rivera, Wetteland, and Lloyd in the bullpen. 

rivera was not available in that game, he pitched in game 3 and 4.

rivera was not available in that game, he pitched in game 3 and 4.

fair enough.

still had Lloyd for Chipper, then your closer.

Is anyone else concerned that the Yankees don’t seem to be targeting Tex?

based on what? 

Teixeira is not going to sign for months.

If we fail to land Teixera I hope we trade for Holliday and sign Dunn to play first.

you can fault Joe Torre for a lot of things, but I don’t see how you can fault him for bullpen management in the 96 postseason

Is anyone else concerned that the Yankees don’t seem to be targeting Tex?

I’ll second yup.  Essentially, nobody knows anything about what the Yankees are intending to do next month.  Cashman has said the Yankees will target pitching, but other than that he’s been completely non-commital. 

you can fault Joe Torre for a lot of things, but I don’t see how you can fault him for bullpen management in the 96 postseason

It WAS kind of curious that he would let Pettitte - who had all of what, 3 career PA by that point? - and then only let him face 1 batter.  If Pettitte let up a HR to Chipper, there’s an excellent chance Joe T wouldn’t have lasted for the 1998 season…not saying he *should* have been fired, but I don’t think Steinbrenner had mellowed that much yet!

j, so . . . your point is that Weaver’s 2006 game justifies Torre’s 2003 decision?  I am absolutely helpless in the face of your logic.

No, it was a joke. To this day, I am still perplexed as to how Jeff Weaver pulled that off.

But no.. using him when he did in 2003 was extremely dumb, I agree.

No, it was a joke. To this day, I am still perplexed as to how Jeff Weaver pulled that off.

Clearly, it was Jered in disguise.  (BTW, what up with that spelling of “Jared”?)

Sorry about my joke-deafness, j.

I keep writing “dewer” for “dewar”.  I think I had it in my head, no doubt due to a cosmic ray frying a neuron, that “Dewar’s” meant booze so the flask must be spelled differently.  Maybe that kind of thing happened to Weaver’s folks.

Nomaas.org has lost their shit.

When did they ever have their shit?

Just based on what the newspaper people seem to be filtering out… basically intimating that the Yankees aren’t eager to meet Boras’ asking price. Hopefully they’re just playing it close to the chest. I’d be disappointed if he went to another team, and the Yankees had to give up assets for 1B when Tex was out there for just money.

you can fault Joe Torre for a lot of things, but I don’t see how you can fault him for bullpen management in the 96 postseason

i’m not really “faulting” him, but just because it worked out doesn’t mean it was the right decision.

there was a runner on 3B with 2 outs when Pettitte hit.

there is a value in terms of win expectancy of scoring that second run, and a much greater probability of scoring that run with a pinch hitter.

you have to weigh that against the admittedly better chance that Pettitte had to retire Chipper vs. Graeme Lloyd.

i don’t think it was the best decision, but like i said, i don’t think it was nearly as egregious as Maddon’s decision last night.

i thought Maddon’s decision was “terrible”.  i though Torre’s decision was “curious”.

that’s all.

both decisions involved letting the pitcher hit and both were in huge, huge spots.  so i was reminded of it last night.

Just based on what the newspaper people seem to be filtering out… basically intimating that the Yankees aren’t eager to meet Boras’ asking price.

ok, but this implies that there are other teams who ARE eager to meet his asking price.  right now his asking price is 10 years, $200M.

the Yankees weren’t eager to meet Boras’ asking price for Damon either, and they didn’t.

Sign me up for giving away Phil Hughes for one season of Matt Holliday!  How could that ever go wrong?

This from SI.com : Manny Ramirez doesn’t fit the Yankees’ desire to get younger and more athletic, but several industry sources believe the Yankees will make a serious push for the free agent to play right field next year. Though GM Brian Cashman says the top offseason priority is starting pitching, he did not rule out interest in the 36-year-old Ramirez.

Anyone believe that those “industy sources” come from outside of Scott Boras’ office? I sure don’t.

“Nomaas.org has lost”

In re what?

In regards to the advertisement posted on this page, can I still vote for who will win the World Series?

When talking about NoMass are you referring to the post about Jeter’s haircut, because I would have to agree and say Jeter has a ridiculously out-of-date haircut.
Or is it the whole Cano for Cain thing? I think they have a very valid point in assuming Cano’s play will be very inconsistent, prone to entire years worth of play where he’s below league average.

I think the “Matt Holliday for Phil Hughes” thing is kind of ridiculous.  Holliday is only under contract for 1 year.  One.  I have a hard time figuring that 1 year of Holliday is worth Phil Hughes, even discounting his value for the inherent risk.

well, it’s the same deal as Santana.  they wouldn’t do the trade without an extension in place.

i’m not saying i agree with the idea, but it’s not that crazy.  at some point, the Yankees have to trade some of their pitching prospects for younger position players.  if Holliday is as good defensively as the post says (i have no idea), he might be the right player to target.

i don’t know if i would include Hughes, but i wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand either.

Yeah, I guess you’re right, I just have a real problem with the notion of trading a package of the value we’re talking about in exchange for one season of a player and the right to pay him FA money for a long time.  I didn’t think it was wise in the Santana case, and I’m pretty against it here. 

Luckily for the Yankees, I’m not the GM, otherwise they’d be in real trouble.

I’m sorry if I’m forgetting this - did we have a Holliday projection in YS (and, generally, outside of Coors)?  Accounting for what, IIRC, are very significant home/away splits?  In fact, it would be very interesting to know whether such projections account only for average stadium performance - or do they also somehow take into account players’ actual historical splits?

NoMaas stopped being funny seasons ago.

Anyone believe that those “industy sources” come from outside of Scott Boras’ office? I sure don’t.

Sure.  An “industry source” would probably qualify as the grounds-keeper in Philly.  Or a hot-dog vendor.  The Post again today is pushing the, “might have interest in Manny” idea.  There’s nothing to it; Cashman is NOT telling anyone anything about what they are doing.  Not denying interest doesn’t mean there is interest.  If Manny came to the Yankees and offered to play for 1 year/$5M I’m sure Cash would be interested, but I don’t see them pursuing Manny.

If the article is not totally full of shit and Manny would be fine with 4 years/$80 million, I think that’s really actually a fair offer.

Not saying you should take it, but I’m just surprised at how reasonable that sounds.

I firmly expected at least 5 years to be what they were going to ask for.

4/80 is more obscene than fair.  Will Manny be worth $20 million as a 40 year old?  I think not.

4/80 is more obscene than fair.  Will Manny be worth $20 million as a 40 year old?  I think not.

I suppose there are some teams for whom the offer would not be obscene.  I’m really not sure if Manny is “worth” $20M *next* year, never mind in 4 years, but I guess if a team is desperate for offense and doesn’t have a DH - AND has a budget that even allows for that - it wouldn’t be obscene.

However, given Manny’s age and general decline of the last few years (other than essentially 2 hot months last year), I’d think “fair” is 2/30.

Don’t sign Manny.  He is a DH.  The Yanks already have plenty of DHs, or possible DHs.  Matsui this year and likely Posada from 2010 until the end of his contract.

If you play Manny in the field, then the 2008 Abreu will look like a Gold Glover.

Just say no to drugs and Manny.

Just say no to drugs and Manny.

Oh, I don’t know.  One of these ain’t so bad.

Just read a rumor of Kennedy for Taveras. I hope Cashman doesn’t pull the trigger on that trade, we have 2 younger versions of Taveras. I am not sold on Kennedy, but we really don’t need Taveras.

I rather have Dunn as a DH/1B than Manny as a DH/LF. There is no rational reason to sign Manny when we can sign Dunn who is younger and he is not a threat in the clubhouse.

I know that there’s a lot of talk about Dunn, but if the Yankees are not interested in Tex then why not just re-sign Abreu and convert him to a 1B. I have to imagine that he’d bring better offensive productivity than Dunn.

Just read a rumor of Kennedy for Taveras. I hope Cashman doesn’t pull the trigger on that trade, we have 2 younger versions of Taveras. I am not sold on Kennedy, but we really don’t need Taveras.

i’d put the odds of this happening at slim to none.

Taveras?  give me a break.

I have to imagine that he’d bring better offensive productivity than Dunn.

why?

Taveras is Melky with less power.  I wouldn’t take him for nothing.  Even Brian Sabean wouldn’t pull that deal.

Taveras for IPK is the Colorado version of Yankee fans wanting another team’s prospects for Shelley Duncan and Darrell Rasner.

i guess it depends on how long of a deal Abreu is looking for.  Abreu might outperform Dunn in 2009, but then you are looking at a 36 year old vs. a 30 year old.

i’m not crazy about Dunn b/c he doesn’t really play a position well, but if the yankees felt like he could play 1B without killing them, his bat would be a decent consolation prize to Teixeira.

Taveras has a career OPS+ of 72.  That’s like, you know, really bad.

Taveras has a career OPS+ of 72.

You know, that’s so bad it’s approaching good from the other side.

I wouldn’t trade Chris Britton for Taveras, let alone IPK.

I’m really not sure if Manny is “worth” $20M *next* year, never mind in 4 years, but I guess if a team is desperate for offense and doesn’t have a DH - AND has a budget that even allows for that - it wouldn’t be obscene.

He’s not.  As a LF he’s maybe worth $55M over 4 seasons.  As a DH, he’s maybe worth $65M.

In the comments section of the article where Troy Renck proposes Taveras for IPK, some Rockies fans object to the trade, especially as Kennedy was 0-4 last year.  One fan laments that a trade would deprive the Colorado of its “best bunter.”