Either the press is making a big deal about Long (because it’s a slow news day) or this guy is one of the hardest working coaches out there.

[1] Or both?

When I saw this headline I had a Terrence Long flashback.

I thought the same exact thing.

Maybe Long just like hanging out with players so he can mootch free dinner/drinks?  Coaches don’t make that much.

I still remember the off-season after that arguing with some virtual people on a (less informed) Yankees message board about the merits of Terrence Long and Aaron Guiel. For some reason they were convinced it was in the Yankees best interest to keep those two around and let them platoon RF while moving Abreu to DH.

Although with the amount of PA DougM/CAIRO/Phelps/Phillips were given as 1B due to Giambi being the DH, it probably would have been a push.

How did a team with a $200M payroll ever go with that combo at 1B?

How much DO coaches make?

WikiAnswers says, “lots!” 

Yeah, crowdsourcing rules! 

It’s gotta be a couple hundred grand at the low end, no?  I mean nothing like what the players get, but comfortable.

Speaking of, I can’t believe that football coaches at PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES make multi-millions.  What a fucking scam.  But the players have to play for free, because, they’re like, STUDENTS.

The coaches usually make more then college presidents and if the players wear the sneakers its the coaches who get paid.

BTW Sugar is a pretty good baseball/immigration movie by the same people who made Half Nelson

[6]

I think it’s in the $100-150G range for most guys.  Not a lot for MLB.

Of course, being on a team like the Yankees means several hundred thousand dollars a year in postseason shares.

I remember Jose Cardinal quit the Yankees for the Marlins over a $25G raise, costing himself 10 times that in post-season money.  Not thesharpest knife in the drawer.

[6] Also, the NCAA and the Universities cash in with broadcasting deals. High profile D I sports are a huge business and they don’t really benefit the majority of athletes that much.

Is OldYanksFan related to oldthurmanfan?

Steve Goldman is classic today.

Chad Jennings has no clue how much coaches make but guesses it’s comparable to the minimum player salary.

[11] Hm, not too bad.  I’ve been toying with the notion that he’s actually Ignatius J. Reilly though.

That would be freaking awesome, and would explain a lot.

BTW Sugar is a pretty good baseball/immigration movie by the same people who made Half Nelson.

Yes, yes it is indeed. And Half Nelson is magnificent.

Is OldYanksFan related to oldthurmanfan?

Alter ego?

[10] [15] Not that I know of. I’m sure he’s a fine lad. Belfast? Antrim?

{13} lol.

SOMEONE ASKED ABOUT RUSSELL BRANYAN
He’s not a left fielder, and he may not be a vertebrate. Both would seem to disqualify him for a position on the Yankees.

Not much here, but…

Olney:

5. Heard this: The Yankees are not in a big rush to identify the right-handed hitting left fielder they need, and will see how the market plays out for the likes of Reed Johnson (whose injury history is a concern), Jonny Gomes (the question about him is his defense in Yankee Stadium) and Jerry Hairston Jr. (who was part of the 2009 championship team).

I really don’t want Hairston back, especially if it means he might play the OF. He makes Damon look like a GG.

Rosenthal says that the Yankees are among five teams interested in Hairston.  Also says that he has multi-year offers.  I really can’t see Cashman offering more than one year or getting into a bidding war on this one.

He needs to work these guys hard so they can get at least a few hits a game against the great 2010 Bosox defense.

How great? They may play only three infielders against lesser opponents.

How great? They may play only three infielders against lesser opponents.

Well, they already play just 3 human infielders and one Christmas elf.

“How great? They may play only three infielders against lesser opponents.”

Not indexed in google…

I hope the Pitcher counts as an infielder, otherwise we are in a lot of trouble.

Catcher too.

We don’t say that a particular BIP is worth 79% of a single because it should have been converted to an out 21% of the time.
MC giving us a glance into the games we’ll be able to play when the technology tracks the exact placement of the ball throughout the field of play!

A poem about WEC for fans of Greek literature.
I presume it had some kind of identifiable metrical pattern in the original Greek?

“I presume it had some kind of identifiable metrical pattern in the original Greek?”

Was there nonmetrical poetry in classical Greece?  Anyway, that would explain the trochaics or iambics in the linked version.

I don’t think there was, Rilke, thus my presumption!
On LoHud, stuff about Bud Selig proposing a Global World Series vs. Japan.
What a disaster.  Interleague play already ruined the 2000 WS (a series of great games which the press managed to turn into a backdrop for Rabid Roger vs. Timid Mike), among others, and the whole World Baseball “Classic” debacle… can Bud just fade away, please?

I just find the term “Global World Series” to be too funny to pass up.  Could we start calling the meeting of the AL and NL champs the “Non-Global World Series”?

If a coach earns less than 500k how can they even be called a coach-the market certainly doesn’t perceive any value added. 1 win=4m approx so 500k means they add about .125 wins or 1.25 batting runs above replacement.

So Yankees expect the total runs added by long to all their players to be less than 1.25? I think he doesn’t require any more headlines on rlyw.

Or is kevin long the most underpaid person in baseball (apart from SG)?

Outside America the majority (not me) of people get a little annoyed at the term world series and perceive it as a little arrogant.

Why not north American championsip followed by world series?

Do the Irish champions get to enter?

There’s a difference in what you would pay for a free agent player versus what you would pay for a coach, they don’t have to be on the same scale.  There are a number of factors that can keep coaching pay suppressed relative to player pay.  The number one thing that I can think of is that the career length in coaching is much longer than in playing.  Combine that with relatively fewer number of positions and you have a labor market that is much more weighted towards the employer. 

[30] - MLB could call it the “Super Series” just to piss off the NFL.  I have a feeling “World Series” isn’t going anywhere for quite a while.

I don’t post here often so while i am in themood can i just say that SG you do a legendary job here. Thanks from me. Also thanks to all regular posters- I read almost every comment and a ridiculous amount of them are intelligent and/or funny

But there are hundreds of thousands of people who would play (including me for example)

Surely we can imply that the market belives winsadded(best coach) - wins added(aaa coach) is less than 1?

How in the world would one measure coaching wins so that one could set a salary?

Seems to be impossible(ish). But more educated minds than me have decided that there is a very low probability that the wins added>1.

I should have said expected value of wins added intead of wins added above.

It’s a bit like share price of google as far as I can see. Who knows what it’s worth but best guess is market value.

[34] Joe Morgan lets the clubs know how valuable each coach is. He provides this service free of charge.

Surely we can imply that the market belives wins added(best coach) - wins added(aaa coach) is less than 1?

Well I agree.  But I don’t have a way to measure the difference between coaches either.

These are very rough numbers and those who know how these things work can correct.

Let’s say there is a 10% chance long can increase batting runs by 10% for each player. For a good offence like yankees that might add 80 runs (pooma) or 8 wins.

That would imply a 3.2m salary for long before adding in all the other probabilities.

Seems to me cashman has decided that the prability he can make more than a 1% difference (which would make 1 win) is close to zero.

Unless their is a high enough probability that Long is hurting their offense, but more reasonably, it’s probably best to think of coaches as extensions of the manager. It’s a lot easier to keep track of 25-40 people when you aren’t working alone.  Not that measuring the value of a manager is much easier.

100k to show dudes how to swing a bat seems like a fucking great salary. the job security is not good, but then again, what’s job security?

[38]
Irish, how on Earth does that follow?  Do you mean to say that, if Cashman believed he was worth that much, he would stomp about and stubbornly refuse to pay him less?

I was going to mention that tree but I think it’s unlikely (not to mention crazy if true to hire someone like that!)

I was actually surprised how little long earned. Perhaps this is the next inefficiency after defence. Maddux is on closer to 1m with Texas-very cheap if he can add a win.

Overall though the chance that any of the coaches make a difference over the year is pretty much zero it seems to me. Amazing how much coverage they get compared to apparent impact though

Just to be clear - the relevant metric is coaching wins above replacement level.

And I think with coaching the likelihood is that value will dissipate - the players will absorb the relevant lessons, the assistant will learn the system and be able to provide the same advice.

The only relevant case I can recall is the Mazzone effect, which I guess the Orioles (and the league, since he’s unemployed) no longer believe in.

41 - no I am saying surely theo would offer him 700k and a his price would be bid up until he reached close to mv

[44]
That doesn’t follow either.  By which I mean - the fact that the league doesn’t bid his services up to a certain level is no demonstration that Cashman doesn’t think he contributes that much.

43- the value doesn’t seem to dissapate in other sports eg football

The key question is-should we care if the Yankees lost long tomorrow? I say it is equivalent to losing edwar ramirez type-you might like to keep him but ultimately it’s no loss

45-true.

It would be a little strange though. I do concede your point (but let’s agree that no other gms think he or any other coach(except their own) is worth it)

Or that they’re not sufficiently convinced of that there is such a demonstrable advantage in switching coaches to other coaches already employed by other ML teams that it would be worth creating an increased cost of doing business by consistently bidding their prices up.

Why not north American championsip followed by world series?

Because the MLBPA isn’t going to agree to have a team that just played between 173 and 181 games to then play another series against a champion from an inferior league, especially if it includes traveling halfway around the world to do so.

Why doesn’t the winner of the Super Bowl take on the winner of the Grey Cup?

Ted, in [49], has it down perfectly.
Perhaps Bud will hold this Global Series on the neutral ground of Alpha Centauri.
The contestants could fly there at near-speed-of-light vessels, getting needed rest along the way.  When they return, they would return to ML action, barring the possibility that the human race will have long since become instinct.  Perhaps some other entities will have evolved sufficiently to be playing baseball?

instinct=extint.  Sheesh.

38- possibly but I don’t think so(I know that is not a good response)

Too late here for me to reply anymore. Sleeptime

[50] Ladies and gentlemen, YOUR 2011 Galactic Universal Series Champions - The HD13189b Greys!

Outside America the majority (not me) of people get a little annoyed at the term world series and perceive it as a little arrogant.

Yeah, people around the world can be so brilliant in their criticism of America.  Of course, if they thought about for one second, they would realize that American baseball is actually made up of a whole bunch of people who DON’T come from America, and therefore the “World Series” is quite apt after all.

I remember being asked on my honeymoon abroad in 2004 how it was possible that so many people in the US could vote for George Bush.  The look of “oh, I’m a dummy, sorry” on their faces when I would point out that half the country voted for the other guy was somewhat satisfying.

[40] 100k to live somewhere expensive and work seven days a week for months on end and spend a huge chunk of your time away from home, esp. when everyone you work with and report to makes at least an order of magnitude more doesn’t sound _so_ great to me.

“I remember being asked on my honeymoon abroad in 2004 how it was possible that so many people in the US could vote for George Bush.  The look of “oh, I’m a dummy, sorry” on their faces when I would point out that half the country voted for the other guy en was somewhat satisfying.”

I don’t think your riposte is at all convincing to anyone asking that question.  Esp. given the views of the entire electorate and relative voting rates.

[54] Well, it was called the WS even in the begining of the last century. Unless all over means Canada, or unless you are talking about cultural heritage (and at that time it was very limited), then I don´t think your argument holds up very well. Not that the problem itself isn´t silly.

maybe whoever named it in 19-whatever wanted to make sure MLB had room to grow.

I’ll have to check my notes (yes, i took notes), but when I was creating a massive realignment in my head, I allowed for a playoff system where Asia would hold a playoffs, and their champion would be entered into our postseason, but as a perpetual “away team”.

[54, 56] The percentage of U.S. citizens who voted for Bush in 2004 is closer to 25 than 50.  Still, 80 million people is a huge number of people.  Phil’s foreign interlocutors weren’t as stupid for being curious as they were for being placated.

I remember being asked on my honeymoon abroad in 2004 how it was possible that so many people in the US could vote for George Bush.

I think it had something to do with the three G’s.

The only relevant case I can recall is the Mazzone effect, which I guess the Orioles (and the league, since he’s unemployed) no longer believe in.

Or maybe the O’s (and the rest of the league) did believe in the Mazzone effect, since they hired him in the first place and paid him quite handsomely by typical pitching coach salary standards.  But the effect disappeared because Mazzone’s skills declined with time, just like a player’s would be expected to.

Anyway, market value is what the market will pay.  If hitting instructors as a group are “underpaid” by someone’s estimate of the wins they may be adding to their teams, then that just means that the person doing the estimation is using the wrong scale.  If I calculate that the “true” value of a service that I’m in the market for is $1,000, but there are dozen’s of vendors offering it for $100, I’m not going to shop around for the guy who will demand that I pay 10x as much.

I believe that Rudy Jaramillo is the highest paid hitting coach in MLB, at $800k/year on a 3 year deal.  The Cubs hired him away from the Rangers last year after he’d made $500k in 2008.  It’s going to be pretty hard to convince me that Kevin Long’s true market value is three times the top of what the market is currently paying for his job.

Also, it made all the sense in the universe to call it the World Series back in 1903, since nobody played baseball anywhere else in the world.  And the one good thing about a US-Japan series is that it should put to rest any talk of further expanding the MLB playoffs.

Aroldis Chapman has agreed to a $30MM with an unknown National League team, according to a tweet from Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports.

link

[64]
$30 MILLION?
I’m guessing it’s the Astros.
Actually, I’m guessing it isn’t true.

I hope it’s the Nationals.  It would be kind of cool to have two 100 mph fastballs within easy driving distance.

Aren’t the Astros being sold in a divorce? or was that the Padres?

$30 doesn’t sound too ridiculous, but it’s a gamble and definitely not a bargain.

Did Selig move the Yankees to the NL?

[67]
The Dodgers.  The Astros are in a far worse position: they are stupid.
See their big signing this off-season.

One source told ESPN The Magazine’s Jorge Arangure that the team is the Cincinnati Reds. The source said the contract is believed to be worth $30 million.

Chapman’s representatives said the deal is not done and would not confirm the team, but did say the Reds are “possible

This would be a shocker

It can’t be the Reds. They were talking about how they couldn’t compete because they couldn’t spend money, so if they signed Chapman that’d be very hypocriti…oh, wait…never mind.

Did Selig move us to Cincinnati?

I think it had something to do with the three G’s.

Glen Beck nods in approval, then breaks down into a hysterical crying fit because of how much he loves this country.

It can’t be the Reds. They were talking about how they couldn’t compete because they couldn’t spend money, so if they signed Chapman that’d be very hypocriti…oh, wait…never mind.

Similar to the Marlins being involved in the bidding in the first place…

Jeff Blair from the Toronto Globe and Mail tweets that he’s hearing that Chapman signing with the Reds at five years and $30MM is a done deal.

Did Selig move us to Cincinnati?

Isn’t Big Stein originally from Ohio?

I would be fine with a move to the NL Central. It would be a lot easier path to the playoffs. We already know what CC does to NL Central teams. Mo might get a few more PA. Johnny Fever would replace Johnny Sterling.

The only downside is Nick Johnson would have to play LF.

Johnny Fever… good grief!
(Also… for some reason, I thought you were younger than that, Ted.)

Johnny Fever… good grief.
(Also, somehow I thought you were younger than that, Ted!)

The first one didn’t appear, didn’t appear… and then, of course, when I submitted it again - ...
(Sigh.)

Oh, I was barely alive by the time WKRP was canceled, but it was being shown in re-run syndication form when I was 10 and for some reason I watched it frequently.

too bad his agent didn’t know about the tax exemption by signing in 2009.  whoopsies.

Glen Beck nods in approval, then breaks down into a hysterical crying fit because of how much he loves this country.

The poster boy for the dumbing down of America.

Jeter is getting married? Isn’t that against the CBA?

[81] et al. - probably best to stick to baseball, with a bit of alcohol and food and so forth on the side.

I’m calling BS. Would Jeter really use his real name?

SI_JonHeyman
 
hearing #reds believe chapman can start in the majors in not-too-distant future. for $30 mil, that better be the case

for $30 mil,

With payments spread out over 10 years, so it won’t be worth as much in FY10 $.

[78] I’m curious why you chose to go with the exclamation point in the second post, but not the first?

I was 10 and for some reason I watched it frequently

Her name was Loni Anderson.

[87]
Actually, if you look carefully, the exclamation point merely changed places with the period.

[88] I sort of liked the Bailey Quarters character.

Rob Neyer had a posting about the “2nd” World Series the other day.  Off the top of my head, I think he mentioned (among other things) that 1) He thought it was more Selig thinking aloud than actually planning something 2) Even if Selig wanted to do it, the PA would never agree anyway 3) It would be a waste of time, as in a 5 or 7 game series ANY Major League team would DESTROY the best team in Japan.  It’s not going to happen.

And on Hairston, I think Cashman is looking to do the same thing he did with the pitchers.  That is, try to find more ML quality depth.  Remember that last year for a chunk of the season Ramiron Pena - who hadn’t yet played above AA, had barely played 3B anywhere, and who was never thought of as a future starter due to his bat - was starting at 3B for the Yankees.

As it stands right now, two injuries and Kevin Russo is the starting 3B w/ probably Reegie Corona as the UIF.  While not horrible and may actually work out well (giving Russo a platform to show his skills), I don’t think many people here are going to be giving Cashman a pass for *not* upgrading in the off-season.  And we are more reasonable than most fans.

[92] I would welcome a Hairston acquisition for a little more than the BUI rate (so maybe $2-$3M, POOMA).  From Fangraphs, the Yankees position players ranked by WAR in 2009 was: Jeter, Teixiera, Rodriguez (missed a month), Cano, and Posada.  Hairston provides decent backup plans for 4 of those (although I’d be willing to bet that we’d see Nick Johnson at 1B if there was an injury to Teixiera.)

I think I made this point late last offseason when we were scrambling to think of 3B options while Rodriguez missed his first month, and Brandon Inge’s name came up (I was quickly shot down because of Inge’s recent struggles with the bat, but he had a decent offensive year by his standards, FWIW.)  We saw in 2008 what a monumental drop off at a position where we get a lot of above average value from (Posada) can do, and it ain’t pretty.

Also, Hairston was a type B this past offseason. I know there are those that are convinced that Cashman is diametrically opposed to offering arbitration, but in the event that Hairston gets, say, 300-400 PA’s, and puts up decent numbers, it *may* be a situation where you can offer arbitration knowing that he’s looking for a multi year deal for a middle to lower tier team. I’m sure this last point is way down on the priority list, but it is a part of what youg get if you acquire him, so I think it’s worth mentioning.

[93] Yeah, I’m on board for him.  I believe the point of Hairston isn’t what he offers over Pena, it’s more what Hairston offers over Russo (an unknown) and the guys who played mostly in AA last year (Corona and Nunez).  Which is okay, b/c then Pena gets some time in AAA, to work on the OF and more on 2B/3B.  Then if there are multiple injuries you get Pena/Russo instead of Russo/Corona.

I don’t think Cashman worries about offering arb at this point.  I don’t think Cashman is opposed to offering arbitration to any player, it is just a risk/reward thing.  I’m sure he takes each case as an individual case, and if the risks are too high, he won’t do it.

I think Pena can give you everything Hairston does (with much better defense) for up to $2-$2.5m less per year. I would risk seeing what Russo can do if a problem arises.

[95] If you believe in UZR, it’d be tough for someone to top Hairston’s defense. Also, Pena doesn’t have any experience in the OF. Pena has also struggled to hit in AA and AAA, so I’d think he would be massively exposed with any regular MLB playing time.

[96] Pena did get experience in the OF when they sent him back to AAA last season. In fact, that was part of the reason he was sent back down, to get sometime in the OF and get regular PA.

I really don’t want Hairston back because I worry that at the first sign of a slump from Gardner we are looking at Hairston as the starting LF.

[96] From what I observed, Pena is far better in the infield, and despite Hairston’s UZR in the OF, he looked like he had more trouble tracking flyballs than Damon. Hairston is at an age when some players begin to decline.

I think the Yankees need to start showing some of their younger players more patience. Not to beat a dead horse, but while I understand the rationale behind Vazquez trade, I would have preferred living with the growing pains of having both Hughes and Joba in the rotation. The costs of any further period of adjustment should be easier to withstand with a BUI.

The Yankees lost out on Michael Inoa because the A’s bid something like $1.5m more. I would rather spend $2-$3m on IFAs than burn it on Hairston. You can always find Hairston-like players in season if a need arises. If a prolonged problem develops with one of the players that he would back up, you would probably look to trade for a better option anyway.

[97] Yeah, 7 games. 15 chances in CF c/o BR.  So when I said Pena doesn’t have any experience in the OF, I should have said he has ‘almost zero’ experience in the OF.

Pena did get experience in the OF when they sent him back to AAA last season.

Yep, I got to see him play a time or two.  Fielded the position competently IIRC.  I mean, I think everything to him was routine, and he played it as such, including throwing to the correct base, hitting the cutoff man, etc.

You can always find Hairston-like players in season if a need arises.

Not sure about j, but for me I’m fine either way.  If Cashman signs Hairston for a cheap deal that’s good.  If he doesn’t, I’m happy going in with Pena and Russo in AAA.  Also, resigning Hairston *could* be a precursor to trading one of the 4 UIF’s they would have in AAA/AA (Pena, Russo, Corona, Nunez).  Maybe not right away, but he’ll have more pieces to trade in July then.