Saturday, April 4, 2009
Looking Ahead to 2009: Hughes, Aceves and IPK
The odds of each of the Yankees’ starting five making the post for all their games this season are slim, so here’s a look at the guys backing them up, Phil Hughes, Alfredo Aceves and Ian Kennedy.
2008| phil hughes | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 2008 chone projection | 104 | 103 | 53 | 49 | 12 | 41 | 90 | 4.24 | 4.15 | 3 | 13 |
| 2008 marcel projection | 96 | 90 | 50 | 46 | 10 | 35 | 77 | 4.31 | 4.04 | 2 | 12 |
| 2008 pecota projection | 152 | 146 | 82 | 75 | 16 | 65 | 129 | 4.42 | 4.17 | 1 | 17 |
| 2008 zips projection | 141 | 136 | 63 | 58 | 13 | 40 | 106 | 3.70 | 3.75 | 13 | 27 |
| 2008 cairo projection | 78 | 71 | 35 | 33 | 7 | 25 | 61 | 3.81 | 3.76 | 6 | 14 |
| 2008 average projection | 114 | 109 | 56 | 52 | 12 | 41 | 93 | 4.10 | 3.98 | 5 | 17 |
| 2008 actual totals | 70 | 80 | 40 | 38 | 5 | 26 | 60 | 4.86 | 3.53 | -3 | 4 |
| difference | -44 | 143% | 97% | 105% | 0.77 | -0.45 | -8 | -12 |
I've included the MLEs(major league equivalencies) for these players in their 2008 actual totals. After a reasonably successful MLB debut in 2007, big things were expected for Phil Hughes in 2008. He broke camp as one the Yankees' five starters and pitched pretty well in his first start of the year, allowing two earned runs over 6 innings in a 3-2 win over Toronto. Unfortunately, that was the high point of Hughes's season until September as he struggled with his effectiveness and then injury. Hughes's final major league line had him putting up a 6.62 ERA and allowing 4.6 runs more than a replacement level pitcher. The good news is his FIP was a respectable 4.32.
| ian kennedy | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 2008 chone projection | 92 | 92 | 50 | 46 | 11 | 44 | 82 | 4.50 | 4.41 | 0 | 9 |
| 2008 marcel projection | 69 | 66 | 34 | 30 | 7 | 26 | 53 | 3.91 | 4.11 | 5 | 11 |
| 2008 pecota projection | 141 | 129 | 72 | 66 | 16 | 68 | 120 | 4.24 | 4.42 | 4 | 18 |
| 2008 zips projection | 148 | 158 | 79 | 72 | 16 | 42 | 94 | 4.38 | 4.19 | 2 | 17 |
| 2008 cairo projection | 46 | 47 | 24 | 23 | 6 | 17 | 34 | 4.50 | 4.53 | 0 | 5 |
| 2008 average projection | 99 | 98 | 52 | 47 | 11 | 40 | 77 | 4.31 | 4.33 | 2 | 12 |
| 2008 actual totals | 111 | 106 | 65 | 62 | 9 | 48 | 90 | 5.03 | 3.93 | -6 | 5 |
| difference | 12 | 141% | 92% | 104% | 0.72 | -0.40 | -9 | -7 |
Although not as highly regarded as Hughes as a prospect, Kennedy had high expectations borne out of his successful professional debut in 2007. Kennedy was awful in the majors, putting up an ERA of 8.16(albeit with a 5.44 FIP) and allowing 12 runs more than a replacement level pitcher over 39.2 innings.
| alfredo aceves | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 2008 actual totals | 164 | 165 | 76 | 72 | 16 | 73 | 123 | 3.95 | 4.30 | 10 | 26 |
Alfredo Aceves came out of nowhere in 2008, as proven by the fact that no projection system forecast him. He's not young, but put up a solid year across three levels of the minors before debuting effectively in the majors.
Legend
IP: Innings pitched
H: Hits allowed
R: Runs allowed
ER:Earned runs allowed
HR: HR allowed
BB: Walks
SO: Strikeouts
ERA: Earned run average
FIP: Fielding independent pitching
RSAA: Runs saved above an average pitcher (starters are compared to starters, relievers are compared to relievers)
RSAR: Runs saved above a replacement-level pitcher(I use 1.2 times average to get replacement level ERA)
2009
| phil hughes | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 2009 chone projection | 82 | 84 | 42 | 39 | 9 | 31 | 68 | 4.28 | 4.10 | 2 | 10 |
| 2009 marcel projection | 84 | 83 | 46 | 43 | 9 | 32 | 65 | 4.61 | 4.19 | -1 | 7 |
| 2009 pecota projection | 85 | 88 | 49 | 45 | 9 | 34 | 67 | 4.74 | 4.27 | -2 | 6 |
| 2009 tht projection | 107 | 105 | 55 | 51 | 12 | 41 | 82 | 4.28 | 4.27 | 3 | 13 |
| 2009 zips projection | 59 | 61 | 30 | 28 | 4 | 23 | 42 | 4.27 | 3.83 | 2 | 7 |
| 2009 cairo projection | 106 | 110 | 57 | 54 | 10 | 35 | 81 | 4.53 | 3.94 | 0 | 10 |
| 2009 average projection | 87 | 89 | 46 | 43 | 9 | 33 | 67 | 4.45 | 4.10 | 0 | 9 |
| phil hughes cairo % | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 80% | 117 | 109 | 54 | 51 | 8 | 32 | 99 | 3.91 | 3.21 | 8 | 19 |
| 65% | 112 | 110 | 56 | 52 | 9 | 34 | 89 | 4.22 | 3.58 | 3 | 15 |
| Baseline | 106 | 110 | 57 | 54 | 10 | 35 | 81 | 4.53 | 3.94 | 0 | 10 |
| 35% | 96 | 103 | 55 | 51 | 11 | 34 | 69 | 4.84 | 4.31 | -4 | 6 |
| 20% | 85 | 96 | 52 | 49 | 11 | 33 | 57 | 5.15 | 4.67 | -6 | 2 |
Hughes will begin 2009 in the Scranton/WB rotation waiting for an opportunity to come up to the majors. Hughes is still very young, but this will be an important season for him. The projection systems like him to be right around average as far as his value, but with a better than average FIP which indicates they still believe in his upside. I'd love to see Hughes hit his 80% forecast this season, but right now I'd probably settle for him staying healthy all season.
| ian kennedy | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 2009 chone projection | 100 | 101 | 53 | 49 | 12 | 43 | 83 | 4.41 | 4.39 | 1 | 11 |
| 2009 marcel projection | 79 | 81 | 47 | 44 | 8 | 35 | 59 | 5.01 | 4.35 | -5 | 3 |
| 2009 pecota projection | 137 | 138 | 78 | 72 | 16 | 62 | 108 | 4.71 | 4.52 | -3 | 11 |
| 2009 tht projection | 128 | 123 | 71 | 66 | 17 | 57 | 101 | 4.63 | 4.68 | -2 | 11 |
| 2009 zips projection | 128 | 131 | 70 | 65 | 13 | 57 | 94 | 4.57 | 4.39 | -1 | 12 |
| 2009 cairo projection | 140 | 149 | 83 | 75 | 18 | 46 | 95 | 4.84 | 4.48 | -5 | 9 |
| 2009 average projection | 119 | 121 | 67 | 62 | 14 | 50 | 90 | 4.70 | 4.47 | -3 | 9 |
| ian kennedy cairo % | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 80% | 154 | 151 | 82 | 73 | 15 | 44 | 115 | 4.28 | 3.80 | 4 | 19 |
| 65% | 147 | 151 | 83 | 75 | 16 | 45 | 105 | 4.56 | 4.14 | -1 | 14 |
| Baseline | 140 | 149 | 83 | 75 | 18 | 46 | 95 | 4.84 | 4.48 | -5 | 9 |
| 35% | 126 | 140 | 79 | 72 | 18 | 45 | 81 | 5.12 | 4.82 | -9 | 4 |
| 20% | 112 | 129 | 74 | 67 | 18 | 43 | 68 | 5.40 | 5.15 | -11 | 0 |
Let's trade ____ and Kennedy for someone awesome! If I have to read that crap any more this season I'm going to throw my computer out the window. The people who want to dump Kennedy while still thinking other teams will give up something of value for him are delusional. Here's what we know about Kennedy. He was drafted with the knowledge that he didn't have a super-high ceiling. He's been dominant in the minors as far as his ERA, but his translated BB rate is a concern for me (97 BB in 213.2 minor league innings when translated to MLEs over 2007-2008, roughly 4.1 per 9). Until he can get his control in line, he will struggle at the major league level. There have been plenty of pitchers with similar or less stuff that have been successful in the majors.
| alfredo aceves | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 2009 chone projection | 100 | 112 | 59 | 55 | 15 | 34 | 65 | 4.95 | 4.87 | -5 | 5 |
| 2009 marcel projection | 63 | 61 | 29 | 27 | 7 | 23 | 44 | 3.86 | 4.34 | 5 | 11 |
| 2009 pecota projection | 106 | 119 | 64 | 59 | 15 | 36 | 65 | 5.03 | 4.84 | -6 | 4 |
| 2009 zips projection | 147 | 172 | 92 | 85 | 25 | 40 | 77 | 5.19 | 5.18 | -11 | 3 |
| 2009 cairo projection | 170 | 175 | 98 | 91 | 24 | 24 | 91 | 4.83 | 4.37 | -6 | 11 |
| 2009 average projection | 117 | 127 | 67 | 62 | 17 | 34 | 71 | 4.77 | 4.72 | -4 | 8 |
| alfredo aceves cairo % | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA | FIP | RSAA | RSAR |
| 80% | 187 | 178 | 97 | 90 | 21 | 21 | 110 | 4.32 | 3.80 | 4 | 22 |
| 65% | 178 | 177 | 98 | 91 | 22 | 23 | 100 | 4.58 | 4.09 | -2 | 16 |
| Baseline | 170 | 175 | 98 | 91 | 24 | 24 | 91 | 4.83 | 4.37 | -6 | 11 |
| 35% | 153 | 164 | 93 | 86 | 24 | 24 | 77 | 5.08 | 4.66 | -10 | 5 |
| 20% | 136 | 151 | 86 | 81 | 23 | 23 | 65 | 5.33 | 4.95 | -13 | 1 |
Aceves doesn't appear to have a ton of upside, but he looks like he should slot in a little below average if he meets his base projections. He doesn't have superior stuff, but he's not a soft-tosser either. That's not bad for your ostensible 7/8 starter.
Value
I didn't bother with the value charts here because a) we have no idea how often any of these guys will pitch and b) they're all still under team control and not arbitration-eligible yet.
Conclusion
With the very realistic odds of A.J. Burnett missing time as well as the innings limit that will be imposed on Joba Chamberlain, as well as the high probability that some of the other pitchers on the staff will miss time, there's a very good chances that the Yankees will be relying on this trio of pitchers at some point in 2009. On paper, that doesn't seem like a bad thing, but then again, it didn't seem like a bad thing entering 2008 to have Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation. Hughes had a strong spring, thinking in terms of how he looked rather than putting any weight on his stats, and that bodes well for 2009 I think. He should be first in line when reinforcements are needed. Aceves and Kennedy essentially project equivalently, so the Yankees will likely go to whichever one is pitching better at the time if the need arises.
Comments
So what explains the ERA - FIP difference. Based on the nomenclature I assumed defense, but since Wang has the lowest ERA-FIP spread so far that can’t be doing most of the work.
CMW’s ERA-FIP has been cited as possible evidence for a qualitative difference in gb hit off him - that he’s not just an extreme gb pitcher but an extremely fieldable gb pitcher.
CMW’s ERA-FIP has been cited as possible evidence for a qualitative difference in gb hit off him - that he’s not just an extreme gb pitcher but an extremely fieldable gb pitcher.
Or, depending on Wang’s rather dramatic home-road split in all his pitching stats, including BABiP, some people have credited Yankee Stadium ground stuff to let the grass grow on the infield for Wang’s starts that makes a difference in his FIP ERA difference. Take your pick.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I’d heard [2] before but not [3]. Makes sense though.
Opening Day lineup today (except for P obviously).
I wonder about his away split excluding astroturf.
So, about the new mlb.tv, the picture quality is actually pretty good, BUT ...
you need one of those duo core 3+GB RAM CPUs, even with the Windows XP. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem to function smoothly at the highest quality.
Well, Fukudome is kind of brutal in CF.
I wonder about his away split excluding astroturf.
Yeah, it is far from scientific, plus, the FIP splits are not available anywhere, to the best of my knowledge, but it seems to be a decent hypothesis worth investigating.
OK, Nady with his reaching for every single pitch out there is kind of annoying me.
Soriano crushing Pettitte is kind of annoying me.
Yay! Posada guns down Theriot!
Wow! Yankee Stadium is going to be a hitter’s park?
WTF. Save it for the season dammit.
Rich Harden is topping out at 90 mph? That’s odd.


Yankee Offense looking good. I find the thesis regarding the demise of Derek Jeter pretty ridiculous. He was playing with an injured hand last season that sapped his gap power. Skeptics point to this and say he’s heading for a fall. But if his physical skills were really decreasing, why did he have his best defensive season since the nineties? Jeter will have his usual stats in ’09, so long as he is healthy. But to say he is in legitimate decline based on one injury plagued season is just misguided. Also, you have to keep in mind that Jeter will never age. Neither will I. Nope. Not happening.
14. Yeah, I thought that it was odd that he was topping at 90 in his playoff start. Perhaps, after all the injuries, he’s trying a different approach, not airing it out on every pitch. His change is so good that he could probably be effective, even with that severe drop in velocity. Not today, though. It could just be that his arm is bothering him and he’ll try to pitch through.
Dear Yankees, the regular season has not started yet. Thanks.


Tex!
The Yankees not following Yogi’s logic this exhibition season.
If this over-priced ballpark turns out to be a hitters park - yuck.
Seriously, I’m predicting that they’ll be all worn out from swinging and running that we’re about to return to WOE.
You had to mention WOE!
So what explains the ERA - FIP difference. Based on the nomenclature I assumed defense, but since Wang has the lowest ERA-FIP spread so far that can’t be doing most of the work.
A few things. Defense is one, as you mentioned. Also, in general, FIP assumes that pitchers have little impact on balls in play. That’s not really true, it’s just that it takes a big sample size to discern the difference.
Also, there are pitchers who consistently outperform their peripherals(Mark Buehrle is one example). So when you are projecting, you don’t want to regress BABIP all the way to league average because you want to make sure you are not penalizing people who have demonstrated an ability to pitch better than their peripherals.
Conversely, for a young player, you don’t necessarily want to assume they can suppress BABIP more than they’ve demonstarted so far. They need to show that they have sufficient skill in the area to remain in the majors.
So depending on the system, they will generally calculate ERA on a few different factors. For CAIRO, I use:
1) Actual ERA
2) Actual RA
3) Component ERA (basically linear weights of all the events a pitcher allows converted to batting runs)
4) FIP
5) tRA
So you could have a FIP that diverges fairly significantly from ERA depending on the factors and weights you use.
Ok, something must be the case with the YES guns. Burnett is topping out at 91.
This Burnett fellow seems to be pretty good.
So, who is doing the game chatter for opening day? SG? Jonathan? Keith (where is he, BTW)? Larry?
I should be able to liveblog opening day.
This lineup looks so much better without Alex.
Next entry: Looking Ahead to 2009: Jonathan Albaladejo, Phil Coke and Edwar Ramirez
Previous entry: Looking Ahead to 2009: Chien-Ming Wang, Andy Pettitte and Joba Chamberlain
There are currently 66 visitors who are not logged in.
There was a record 241 simultaneous visitors on May 2, 2011 at 11:54:25 pm.









