Remember on this site, when I said we have to do everything to get ARod back, and everyone was like, fuck ‘em.

Well, here we are, can you imagine a world where Morgan Ensberg is your 3b for the entire year?

anyway, since this season is over, lets start talking offseason.

Also, do you think they resign Bobby A?  I doubt it, but there is no one in the system to take over RF.  And Adam Dunn is the only guy worth a shit on the FA market.  You know who is out there though?  Ben Sheets?  Would Hank let the kids go two years in a row?

Wang/Sheets/Hughes/Joba/Mussina/Kennedy.  Just a thought.

The devil rays were 120-1 or something at IP to win the World series, I was in Vegas but I couldn’t get to a book with baseball futures posted, and I didn’t feel like waiting in line, I was going to make 3 $20 bets on them, win the AL east, win the pennant, win the world series.

Alas, I did not, so no one will believe me.

Wang/Sheets/Hughes/Joba/Mussina/Kennedy.  Just a thought.

No lefties…

Well, yeah, but there are no stud lefties out there.  Unless you want to pay big money to Oliver Perez.

Don’t think Sabathia is a stud or will get to FA?

Ah, I misread his contract, thought he had an option.  I just wonder if Hank will go another offseason without a splash.

Giambi looks pretty good huh? HUH? THAT’S SOMETHING!

Also, screw Abreu and Dunn, Jeter to right, sign Furcal.

I don’t know if the Yanks should blow a lot of money on pitching like Sabathia or Sheets when they have arms coming out of the wazoo and only a few potential impact bats, none close to ready yet.

I’d rather sign Sabathia than Sheets.  Sheets can’t stay healthy.

I don’t think the season is over by any means though, I just hate watching this team right now.

Yeah, I wouldn’t bring Abreu back.  Hell, I’d rather put Melky in RF and try Gardner in CF.

I’ll second what SG said, this team is adding two of the ten best players in the game some where in the near future, this is still a playoff team.

Gardner is starting to look like Ellsbury-light right now. .449 slg.!

Oh, and calling Posada one of the ten best players was a mistake, maybe ten best in the AL, probably closer to 20.

How about signing Sheets or Sabathia (if we can get them on a 5yr deal or less at reasonable $) and perhaps trading a couple young arms for a stud AA-AAA 1B or RF.  Unless we think Jesus Montero will be 1B and ready by 2010.

The season is over? Hardly. Let’s look past this weekend with the Mets.

The upcoming schedule is:
Baltimore, Seattle, Baltimore, Minnesota, Toronto, Kansas City, Oakland, Houston, San Diego, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh.

How many of those teams worried you before the season started? If you answered “Maybe San Diego, but that’s really it,” I think you’re on the right track.

After that stretch, the Yanks approach the All Star break with the Mets, Texas, Boston, Tampa Bay, and Toronto.

After the break:
Oakland, Minnesota, Boston, Baltimore, LAA, Texas, LAA, Minnesota, Kansas City, Toronto, Baltimore, Boston, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Seattle, LAA, Tampa Bay, Chicago, Baltimore, Toronto, and Boston.

You know who you don’t see on the list? Cleveland and Detroit. We’re done with them, outside of one makeup game with Detroit. From here on out, we are getting healthy doses of Baltimore, Texas, Seattle, and Kansas City. Minnesota and Toronto aren’t juggernauts. Does anyone really expect Oakland to keep being this good?

We are about to end the toughest section of our schedule this year (by far, IMHO). We have played it without the two most valuable players on the team. We have a shot to come out of it within shouting distance of first place and around .500. I know it’s painful to watch right now, but if the Yanks can do that, then I think that’s a victory for them.

Let’s at least wait until we get through the soft section coming up *with Alex F. Rodriguez in the lineup* before we start planning for next year. Jeebus, you’d think people hadn’t followed a baseball season before.

I don’t know if the Yanks should blow a lot of money on pitching like Sabathia or Sheets when they have arms coming out of the wazoo and only a few potential impact bats, none close to ready yet.

Certainly.  I would not sign an arm, but the OF bats are not there this year.  I like your Furcal to SS, Jeter to RF idea. Will Jeter like it though?

Sign Texiera.  Move Duncan to RF.  Let Bobby sign elsewhere and get the draft pick(s).
Sign CC.  Wang/CC/Hughes/Joba/Kennedy

Unfortunately this leaves us with Jeter at SS.

I love Jesus.  Montero, that is.

What the fuck is this?  when did we allow optomists on this board?

And they only have 6 road games in July.  I mean, things are probably going to get better.

Sign Texiera.  Move Duncan to RF.  Let Bobby sign elsewhere and get the draft pick(s).

I strongly oppose this. If Teixeira can be had for moderate commitment (say, less than six years), then he might make sense. However, he scares me because his reputation is that of an elite hitter, which he really is not, as far as first basemen are concerned. Yes, he makes up some of that with his glove, but I think a long term commitment to a first baseman who’s never broken a 1000 OPS despite playing in Texas is not a fantastic idea, especially since he will be moving away from his prime years. Still, it’s also not a terrible idea.

Giving Shelley Duncan any kind if role is absolute madness. He. Cannot. Hit. He swings hard and sometimes he gets lucky. Giving players who can’t even hit in the minor leagues until the turn 27 significant roles on a team that wants to contend is asking for disaster.

As for bringing Abreu back, it all depends on what kind of contract he’s looking for. I’m leaning towards not at this point, but mostly because I don’t see his skill set projecting well going forward.

As for bringing Abreu back, it all depends on what kind of contract he’s looking for. I’m leaning towards not at this point, but mostly because I don’t see his skill set projecting well going forward.

His defense is declining, his power is declining, and now even his walk rate is declining.  His .425-.450 SLG doesn’t cut it when his OBP is below .380.

So the logic is - as they get to the kind of teams they have no chance of facing in the off-season, they should fatten up.  I can feel better about watching them lose interesting games because I’ll know they could, they might, do better against teams that don’t really matter.
There’s no way around the fact that this has been awful.
So some of the losses have come to better teams - they weren’t supposed to be better than THIS team.
Honestly, the whole schedule logic isn’t comforting in the least.

As for bringing Abreu back, it all depends on what kind of contract he’s looking for. I’m leaning towards not at this point, but mostly because I don’t see his skill set projecting well going forward.

Look at it this way.  If Abreu has a good year, he’ll probably want to cash in with at least one more big contract.  At least 3/4 years for 12 million plus (probably much higher $$ wise, but I don’t want to predict the market).  And someone will give it to him.  Though having Abreu next year may be best for the Yankees, I wouldn’t be a big fan of years 2, 3, or maybe 4.

If Abreu DOESN’T have a good year, where the Yankees could get him for a year or two cheap...well if he doesn’t have a good year why would they want him?

Gardner in CF, Melky in RF may be better for next year, and then hopefully the year after that AJax is ready and we’ll have Gardner, Jackson, and Melky.  May not be much better than average offensively, but probably the best defensive OF the Yankees have had in a while!

Honestly, the whole schedule logic isn’t comforting in the least.

Sure it is.

#1) We know that just making it to the post-season means the team has a shot at the championship (See St. Louis Cardinals).
#2) We think there is an excellent chance the Yankees have some help on the way.  Hughes coming back healthy, Chamberlain probably in the rotation, Kennedy improving.
#3) Cashman has shown a knack over the years to find missing-pieces in July/August.  Whether he gets a flash-in-the-pan (Small), or a key player (Justice), he often seems to find player(s) to fill holes during the season.

So I fully expect a better team and easier schedule to translate to 90+ wins.  Actually as long as they get 89 and beat Don’s projection I’ll be happy

So some of the losses have come to better teams - they weren’t supposed to be better than THIS team.

Minus two of their most valuable players?  Let’s say the Yankees were a 95 win team at the start of the season.  Right now, missing two of their most valuable players (Rodriguez at 6.3 wins above replacement and Posada at 2.9 wins above replacement, they’re10 wins worse.  So the team on the field right now is an 85 win team, not a 95 win team.  That they’re losing to good teams is neither surprising or unexpected.

That doesn’t make it any less frustrating, but it is what it is.

Make that 9 wins worse.

So some of the losses have come to better teams - they weren’t supposed to be better than THIS team.

1. THIS team’s expectation included Alex Rodriguez and Jorge Posada.
2. Small sample size. We pounded Cleveland last year during the regular season and what did it get us in the postseason? Nothing.

Why is the schedule argument not compelling? All good teams fatten up during the soft portions of their schedule. That’s how you make the playoffs (and, yes, I’m sure an exception or two exist). If good teams always beat both other playoff teams AND the mediocre/terrible teams, you’d have teams winning 120 games every year. It’s not abnormal for a playoff caliber team to play around .500 baseball against other playoff caliber teams. That’s not shocking at all. And, again, without A-Rod or Jorge, this isn’t really a playoff caliber team.

I’m not arguing that it hasn’t been painful to watch this team struggle offensively. I’m not arguing that you should feel awesome about what the Yanks have been doing. I’m just trying to add some perspective: while we all would like to be well over .500 despite major personnel losses and a tough schedule, that’s just not realistic. Things haven’t gone well, but they haven’t gone catastrophically bad either after accounting for the loss of the two most valuable offensive players that you have.

Regardless, there’s absolutely no shame in pounding the weaker competition in your league as a means to getting to the postseason.

Certainly.  I would not sign an arm, but the OF bats are not there this year.  I like your Furcal to SS, Jeter to RF idea. Will Jeter like it though?

I think Girardi will make him like it. We knew Matsui wasn’t thrilled at DH, but Girardi seems to have laid the law on that one. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him do the same thing to Jeter. Jeter’s 35 next year, no one except for true freaks (Larkin, Vizquel, Ozzie) play SS at that age. I think Jeter knows at least that much.

However, he scares me because his reputation is that of an elite hitter, which he really is not, as far as first basemen are concerned. Yes, he makes up some of that with his glove, but I think a long term commitment to a first baseman who’s never broken a 1000 OPS despite playing in Texas is not a fantastic idea, especially since he will be moving away from his prime years. Still, it’s also not a terrible idea.

John, I like the way you think and I totally agree about Duncan being a terrible idea. I’m gonna take a crack at defending a potential Tex signing. No he’s not an elite hitter and no defense at first isn’t all that important, but there are a lot of reasons to like him for this team. He’s 29 next year and he’s pretty athletic for a first baseman. If you’re going to give a long term contract to a hitter, the guys under 30 have to be your targets and his athleticism should help him age better than a guy like Delgado or Giambi (who’s actually aged pretty well). He’s also a switch hitter, who hits lefties better than righties, and this team desperately needs another guy who can hit lefties. He brings real power to the table and outside of A-rod the Yanks have no real 30 HR guys and it’s not like there is one around the corner in the farm. They need to hit the long ball more often (I am so sick of the DPs) and Tex will help with that. He does provide defense and stability at a position that has been in flux since 2002 or so and I think that’s important, although not as much as the other on field issues. He’s not the best first baseman, but he’s definately a good, young switch hitting one and I think the Yanks could really use him. I am very much in favor of them taking a run at him this offseason.

CP - I dispute that classification of Tex as “young.” He’ll be on the wrong side of 28, which doesn’t make him old, but, in my book, doesn’t make him young either. I agree that his athleticism is a point in his favor. Yes, he may age relatively well, but he’s also aging from a lower peak that both Giambi and Delgado.

Giambi, when he was signed, was one year older than Teixeira will be next year. He’d put up OPS+ of 153, 187, 198 his past three years. Delgado’s great years have been more distributed, but he’d at least been at or over 150 OPS+ twice before turning 29, including a 181. Teixeira has at 150 once: last year.

To be equal to those guys, Tex has to not really age at all for much of his next contract. If that happens, that would make him worse offensively than those two, but he would make up the difference with defense. I’m not sanguine about that possibility. I can see that happening for the next three or four years, but after that it starts to get really dicey, really fast.

I do like Mark Teixeira. I would be fine with a contract that was in the four to six (maybe) year range at an elite price for those years. I just don’t think there’s much of a chance that that will happen. If it takes more than six years at elite money to get Tex, I would have to pass.

Gardner in CF, Melky in RF may be better for next year, and then hopefully the year after that AJax is ready and we’ll have Gardner, Jackson, and Melky.  May not be much better than average offensively, but probably the best defensive OF the Yankees have had in a while!

and if Wang holds up, Hughes and Kennedy come around, we could win game 0 to negative one!

I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think Tex is going to command all that much money. I see a Carlos Lee kind of contract here tops, not a Giambi one. As you said, he hasn’t been that good, and I think everyone is aware of it. He doesn’t fare particularly well in writer’s votes or fan votes. I don’t think he’s perceived as elite and I don’t think he’ll be paid like he is either. If the price is six years/100 mil, I am in favor of it. If it’s 7/120 (which I don’t think is likely) then yeah, I’d probably walk.

Jeter’s 35 next year, no one except for true freaks (Larkin, Vizquel, Ozzie) play SS at that age.

According to BBRef’s PI, which I don’t have full access to, from 1901 through 2008, there have been 83 player seasons in which the player was 35 or older, qualified for the batting title, and played 80% of his games at SS. Interpret that how you will.

CP - I think we are on the same page then. We just perceive Teixeira’s public perception differently. (That was a fun sentence.)

I didn’t even know that the schedule was that easy after the Mets.

That does make me feel a bit more pleased. SG’s point about the projections minus A-Rod and Posada is quite telling. That says it is a team projected at 86 wins - and then you just have to toss in a few guys playing well under their projections to get where they are now, which is a couple of games under .500.

The great thing is that the Yankees CAN under-perform their 95 win projection and likely make the playoffs in this, the year of parity, where I cannot even pick which teams I want to win and lose each day, because they all have about the same record!!

Yanks still have a good shot at getting to the postseason; however, just like in years past, they will probably be one-and-done in the playoffs.

They are too freakin old up and down the lineup.  Damon.  Matsui.  Abreu.  Giambi.  Jeter.  Posada.  These are the players that are past their prime.  Unfortunately, only Giambi and Abreu will be gone next year.

I don’t see the need for trades/signings when you can’t move the incumbent, so there’s not a lot they can do.

With that in mind, I’d let Giambi and Abreu walk.  Thanks for taking a lot of money.  Matsui is your new DH.

Take some of the pitching prospects and get yourself a couple of younger bats to fill in the 1B/OF holes until help on the farm arrives.

Or, as others suggested, move Melky and bring up Gardner.  If that happens, then the Yanks would definitely need a power-hitting 1B.  I could see the Yanks parting with a McCutchen and a Horne for a 1B who can swing.

An outfield of Melky, Gardner and Jackson would be good to great defensively, but where is the power? I’m not sure Jackson has a homer yet this year. It’s hard for me to project him even as a MLB hitter by 2010, but if I would I think it would be generous to say he would hit 10. Add to that Gardner’s 1-5 and Melky’s 10-15 and you quickly see that even optimistic projections won’t satisfy the team’s needs for these positions. You may be able to carry one guy but not more than one singles hitter out there. That is also a problem with moving Jeter to the OF as he’s becoming less and less of a slugger (in comparison to his earlier numbers that is)

I think at the end of the day, the front office would never be comfortable not having a couple 20+ homer guys out there and would trade to get into that position before this kind of homegrown trio would have a chance. JMO

I could see the Yanks parting with a McCutchen and a Horne for a 1B who can swing.

Who is that much better than Tex that it’s worth giving up talent and money and that’s available?

If you take Tex out of the equation, who is available that’s worth trading for? 1st base is thin these days.

Tex makes a lot of sense and I agree with Cowboy on all his points. The absence of really good right handed power is hurting the team this year and with A-rod and Posada out it is extremely apparent. Comparing him to Giambi is not all that fair as he’s not clumsy but rather an asset defensively.  In fairness to Jason no one would be down on him had his team won a championship by now. He’s had some good years offensively. Two times more than 40 homers and at least two more over 30. He is a liability in all other aspects of his game aside from when he has the bat in his hands. If he stays healthy I still look for him to get hot with the HR bat.

Mussina and Giambi aren’t loved and appreciated largely because of the team not winning it all. I think they have done rather well myself for the most part.

Duncan is a role player period. I don’t see him getting 500 abs in a Yankee season.

It’s hard for me to project him even as a MLB hitter by 2010, but if I would I think it would be generous to say he would hit 10

That’s fair, he may not be ready yet, but I believe that if Jackson makes to the bigs, he’s going to have a good deal of pop, when he broke out last year, he had a .221 Iso in 258 ABs. But yeah, he may not be able to hit for power by 2010.

That is also a problem with moving Jeter to the OF as he’s becoming less and less of a slugger (in comparison to his earlier numbers that is)

I think Jeter will hit better when he moves off of SS because of the obvious physical toll trying to play the position is taking on his legs. Even without the power, Jeter can still be an offensive asset in RF in the immediate future, it’s not like they’re replacing a lot of power with Abreu leaving anyway.

I think at the end of the day, the front office would never be comfortable not having a couple 20+ homer guys out there and would trade to get into that position before this kind of homegrown trio would have a chance. JMO

I think you’re right, I don’t see the Yanks allowing both Gardner and Melky in the OF. Melky might become a 20 HR guy but if he doesn’t, no way the Yanks are going to let themselves be that short on power in the OF.

I’m still not sure I understand this talk about moving Jeter to 1B or RF.  He’s been pretty much a .300/.400/.450 hitter his whole career, which is is amazing for a shortstop but pretty average for a first baseman or right fielder.  Plus he could easily regress to something like .300/.380/.400 in the next couple years (if he isn’t already doing that this year!) and now you have a .780 OPS in RF. 

This year will be telling if Melky’s bat can play in RF.  If he can hit 25 dingers and slug .450, then why keep Abreu?

I was wrong. Heyman had an article last week (I would paste it, but I don’t want to screw up the thread), Tex is looking for 8/200 and turned down 8/140 from the Rangers last year. Boras has been wrong before, but I wouldn’t even consider those terms for Tex.

Article

See if that works…

He’s been pretty much a .300/.400/.450 hitter his whole career, which is is amazing for a shortstop but pretty average for a first baseman or right fielder.

It’s not. Jeter’s offensive numbers were clearly worse than 4 RFers last year (Hart, Hawpe, Vlad and Magglio). He was right there with Rios, Markakis, Griffey and a ton of other good fielders. Add in likely good defense and Jeter is easily a top ten RFer.

Plus he could easily regress to something like .300/.380/.400 in the next couple years (if he isn’t already doing that this year!) and now you have a .780 OPS in RF.

That’s a real concern, but as I stated above, I think moving to the OF will be good for Jeter’s bat. You have to play him somewhere and you have to hope his bat doesn’t evaporate. If it does, he’s no good anywhere.

I’m still not sure I understand this talk about moving Jeter to 1B or RF.  He’s been pretty much a .300/.400/.450 hitter his whole career, which is is amazing for a shortstop but pretty average for a first baseman or right fielder.

The idea is that if Jeter is now a -20 defender at shortstop and would be an average RF defensively, he more than compensates for the position adjustment.

The average RF is about 12 runs better than the average shortstop offensively over 650 plate appearances.

You have to play him somewhere and you have to hope his bat doesn’t evaporate. If it does, he’s no good anywhere.

This is so true. Jeter’s bat has the same impact on run scoring no matter where he plays. If playing him in RF is the best way for the Yankees to improve their run differential, then it doesn’t really matter if his bat is above or below average for a RFer.

And the other thing to consider is how expensive “average” really is.  Especially when you consider that average is calculated by a mean, whereas the median player at a position is probably below average.

The season may not be over but unless IPK and then Hughes turn their seasons around I can not see us catching Boston with their pitching and the best I can hope for is squeaking in for the WC.

However, without Arod and Po, this team is no fun to watch.  Matsui is the only player having a really good offensive year and there are several players who have been major disappointments, others who do not figure to ever hit, and a few who have been just OK.  BTW was Ensberg really the best option as a right handed bat/fill in 1b or 3b?

With Jeter, I’d expect him to be the starting shortstop on opening day at the new Stadium, so right or wrong, he figures to spend some, if not all, of 2009 at shortstop.  Hopefully, 2009 can be seen by Jeter and the team as his farewell tour at the position while the Yankees look for other options.

I like Furcal, but he’ll be 31 next year and has had injuries.  Would he be a good buy?

Teixeira will only be 29, but isn’t a super-elite hitter.  Then again, with offensive numbers down in the AL, maybe we need to change our definition of “elite”.  C.C. Sabbathia?  Is he a good investment with that physique?  Thanks but no thanks on Ben Sheets with his injury history.

The free agent market is getting harder and harder to figure.

Matsui is the only player having a really good offensive year

I don’t know; I’d take an .842 OPS from Damon any day.  But other than that everyone is pretty much at or below where you would expect them to be.

"But other than that everyone is pretty much at or below where you would expect them to be.”

Are you sure? League-adjusted?

I didn’t expect either Giambi or Melky to hit this well. I don’t think anyone expected Melky to hit this well.

BTW was Ensberg really the best option as a right handed bat/fill in 1b or 3b?

well, who was available who was better?

this is his career like against LHP: .280/.400/.515

even last year when he wasn’t very good overall, he still hit .257/.345/.486 against LHP.

seemed like a pretty sweet idea to hand him a minor league contract.

Sheets - No.

As far as no A-Freud, and what would life be like had Hank not thrown the checkbook at him, the team would survive. They would have made moves other than Ensberg. Any other suggestion is stupid. They had a plan, Hank blew it up. End of story.

The free agent route is much different than ten years ago. The way the money is distributed to low rung market teams has changed the financial landscape. The other thing is that teams are being proactive and agressive in locking up their young stars with four and five year contracts well before they are due for arbitration. That leaves about three kinds of players that remain to largely populate the free agency market. Older players that have a bad year or two behind them in their recent past, players that have baggage be it personal/behavioral or injury related, and then the greedy types that are wanting the sun, moon and stars that even the majority of teams beg off from. I think CC Sabathia and Santana (had he not been traded) and generally anybody represented by Boras fits this description.  BTW, if our team elects to go after Tex, there may be some games played due to lingering resentment from Boras in the wake of the A-rod matter. I guess in the end though money will do the most talking.
Another thing is that if the Yanks tank, there will be a plunge by the Hank.

Are these D-rays relievers that good?  How does a team that makes less money than Igawa’s contract collect so much talent? This Wheeler seems to be pretty good. Did they obtain him from trading some young talent? I can’t remember.

"They had a plan, Hank blew it up. End of story. “

As to the rest of the plan not including A-rod, it doesn’t seem to be working too well at the present time.

There is no way to project Posada coming close to his 2007 [walk] year. It was his best offensive year, ever. A large fall off was going to happen.

That, and a large fall off from A-Freud.

Solution to the Jeter problem, and I’ve mentioned it before, let him walk after the 2010 season. I believe that is his final contract year.

No real position for him in 2011 and beyond, except maybe 1st base.

"Solution to the Jeter problem, and I’ve mentioned it before, let him walk after the 2010 season. I believe that is his final contract year.”

Yeah, that’s going to happen. He may not be Mickey Mantle, but to this generation of fans he’s the equivalent. Jeter will be handled with kid gloves whether any of his then current statistics support it.

Question that I would really like the answer to. What evaluator recommended the Yankees sign Igawa? Was the person on the payroll or someone else like Bobby Valentine?

well, who was available who was better?

Exactly, yup.

I think sometimes we get spoiled wanting good, young players, not just at every position on the field, but IN EVERY ROSTER SPOT.  And we want this to happen EVERY YEAR.  This just isn’t possible.  There are cycles in terms of what the farm system can provide, what’s available in free agency, as well as what the performance standards are at each position.

We often complain about the Yankees’ production at first base, then question whether Mark Teixeira is truly elite/worth the money as a free agent.  If you look at American League first basemen, Teixeira would easily be at or near the top of the list.  So, do we want to overpay and be competitive at first, or go the bargain route and live with the likes of Betemit, Ensberg, and Duncan.  Unless you can develop players at EVERY position of need, you have to make these not-so-ideal choices....

There is no way to project Posada coming close to his 2007 [walk] year. It was his best offensive year, ever. A large fall off was going to happen.

There’s still a big difference between Posada with fall off and Jose Molina.

How does a team that makes less money than Igawa’s contract collect so much talent?

It’s helps when you are bad enough to have the first pick in the draft every year for 10 years.

This Wheeler seems to be pretty good. Did they obtain him from trading some young talent?

Wheeler came from Houston for Ty Wigginton.

Who is that much better than Tex that it’s worth giving up talent and money and that’s available?

If you take Tex out of the equation, who is available that’s worth trading for? 1st base is thin these days.

I don’t know who is available, only the GMs know that.  I do think that if the Yanks come calling with the right amount of prospect talent and money, a deal could get done for someone who was not supposed to be available.  If I were Cash, I’d definitely shake some trees and see what falls.

I think sometimes we get spoiled wanting good, young players, not just at every position on the field, but IN EVERY ROSTER SPOT.  And we want this to happen EVERY YEAR.  This just isn’t possible.  There are cycles in terms of what the farm system can provide, what’s available in free agency, as well as what the performance standards are at each position.

The problem is the Yanks are top-heavy in older position players and have been for quite some time.  Melky and Cano are the “young” players in the lineup and they got their by default and/or chance.

For several years after their last championship, the Yanks went out to with cash in hand, looking for the next player to keep the dynasty rolling.  They signed their “core” homegrown talent to contracts that probably won’t work out well for the team in the end.

Pretty soon, the team got old.  The roster got inflexible.  And no further championships were won.

Now, it looks like Cashman is trying to get the organization on the right track; unfortunately, it comes at a bad time.  The Yanks are getting ready to move into a new stadium and Hank and Hal are trying to flex their muscles.  Not a great time to rebuild the organization.

In a perfect world, Cashman would lay off the free agents until the right player at the right price comes along.  Keep building the farm system.  And trade for players you need from your organizational strengths.  The Yanks would get right quick, since they have a big budget and improved farm system.

However, that can’t happen as Hank doesn’t want to open the new stadium with a team in the midst of a rebuilding year.  He’ll make sure that Cashman nets a big time pitcher and bat, no matter what the cost.

Sabbathia’s agent is probably got the C.C. PowerPoint presentation all gassed up, including a photoshop of his client in pinstripes.

I’m sure Hank will open the checkbook for Boras and Tex, telling them to fill in the numbers.

I’m sure teams will dangle a bat or two, looking to get some of the young Yankee arms in a trade.

While Cashman might resist the latter, he’ll have a tough time saying no to the free agents.  The media and the agents will ensure Hank and Hal know how much those players want to be Yankees.

If Nick Johnson stays healthy this year (Huge IF), he may be a better value than Teixeira.  I’ve got them projected to be basically the same in value (Johnson > OBP, Tex > SLG) and NJ is just one year older.  He’s not eligible for free agency until 2009, but maybe the Yankees can deal some of their surplus minor league arms for him.

Yanks and Nats are starting to get organizationally comfy - a trade here and there and a couple of ex-Nats on the Yankee roster. 

Living in DC, I get to watch the Nats stink more than I’d like.  I think Nick would be a good gamble: yes, health is a concern, but he can hit when he’s healthy and he’s no slouch in the field.  I think the Nats would trade him for some spare prospect parts.  The Nats could slide Young to 1B full time and they could use any arms they could get.

McCutcheon had a mediocre performance last night.  Doubt if he will be helpful in the near future.

McCutcheon had a mediocre performance last night.  Doubt if he will be helpful in the near future.

No pitcher has ever had a mediocre performance and been helpful in the same season?

Indeed.  I was shocked Joba was able to help the Yanks last year after being battered during a AA start.

Joba dominated in the minors at a younger age, McCutcheon has been merely good and at 25 why isn’t he at Scranton?

I remember being really impressed at the Wheeler move last year. A live arm for a scrap heap guy like Wiggington.

That was as good as the Ventura for Proctor deal.

Joba dominated in the minors at a younger age, McCutcheon has been merely good and at 25 why isn’t he at Scranton?

Compare all Yankee pitching prospects to the elite prospect, a statistical outlier, and you’ll be disappointed a lot.

McCutch was a fifth year senior when he was drafted and lost a significant amount of time to suspension.  It was my impression he didn’t make the AAA because of sheer numbers and a lack of experience on his part.  Now, I’m assuming they are keeping him there because there really isn’t someone in the Scranton rotation to demote.

McCutch is not a bad prospect and probably could help the team if need be.  If he can’t stick with the big league club (b/c of numbers or performance), or doesn’t have a future there, then I’m sure there are plenty of teams who’d want him.

Wheeler is decent but right now the Yanks couldn’t muster a hit off Dewon Brazelton.  Everyone who starts against this team looks like a Cy Young candidate.  On the whole, I agree with SG in that I believe the Yanks will turn things around but I don’t much feel like watching them right now.  Last night, I was at a friend’s place and we put on an old movie rather than watch the end of the game.  The result was eminently predictable.

Last year didn’t the Yanks routinely beat up on TB reliever Thurston Howell III

If Nick Johnson stays healthy this year (Huge IF), he may be a better value than Teixeira.

I see your point, if Johnson could be had for a surplus arm, why not?  But it seems like the desire is to find a long-term solution at first, whereas Nick Johnson hasn’t even established himself as being able to stay on the field for the shortest of terms.  I mean, you still need a team of Shelley Duncans and Morgan Ensbergs and Wilson Bettemits on hand to back up Nick Johnson, which is part of the frustration, isn’t it?

Has anyone looked into cloning a 1B?  I heard this Gehrig guy was pretty good… I think the yanks need to sink a little more money into basic research with the hopes of creating an all-clone team.

DaPuj- 2009 Yankees: C: Yogi Berra, 1B Lou Gehrig, 2B Willie Randolph, 3B A-Rod, SS- Jeter, LF-Mickey Mantle, CF Joe DiMaggio, RF Babe Ruth, DH Charlie Keller

I think we could win some games.

How about signing Sheets or Sabathia (if we can get them on a 5yr deal or less at reasonable $

Well, you can’t get them on a five year deal or less at reasonable money, so why even bring it up?  This is kind of like certain people who were telling us all winter that they’d have been happy to give A-Rod a 5/$90 extension and re-sign Posada at 2/$25 and Rivera at 3/$30.  Those kinds of deals are total non-starters in baseball’s current economic environment, so what’s the point of advocating them?  I mean, at least Don is advocating that the Yankees let Jeter walk after 2010, instead of suggesting some ridiculous idea for a two or three year deal at four or five million per, with a couple of team options at whatever the minimum salary is in 2014.

...the front office would never be comfortable not having a couple 20+ homer guys out there...

The Yankees have had two or more OFers hit 20 or more HRs three times in the past ten years.  I don’t know whether the FO is or was comfortable with this, but there it is.

Has anyone looked into cloning a 1B?  I heard this Gehrig guy was pretty good… I think the yanks need to sink a little more money into basic research with the hopes of creating an all-clone team.

Do the Yankees still have exclusive rights to Gehrig’s DNA?  DiMaggio’s?  Mantle’s?  I’m a little worried about Ruth, since the Colonel did give him an unconditional release back in ‘35.  The Braves released him, too, so his genome’s probably a free agent.

2009 Yankees: C: Yogi Berra, 1B Lou Gehrig, 2B Willie Randolph, 3B A-Rod, SS- Jeter, LF-Mickey Mantle, CF Joe DiMaggio, RF Babe Ruth, DH Charlie Keller

You’d take Randolph over Lazzerri?  Also, Ruth will DH except on days when he’s pitching.  Girardi will make him STFU about it.

Girardi will make him STFU about it.

Brilliant.

Front page of MLB: “Sox’s Bucholz on DL with broken nail.”
Thats some serious emasculation.

Knowing MLB’s front page, I’m surprised it wasn’t “Reigning AL Rookie-of-the-Year Bucholz on DL.”

MC in VA: markets change.  How many teams will be wiling to risk a LT deal after seeing Zito? Maybe someone would but Zambrano took a 5yr/$90M deal from the Cubs.  I know he wasn’t a free agent yet but still.  To say that the market in terms of number of years only rises and never falls is silly- when enough teams have successfully changed their strategy to looking inward and developing young pitching then the market for free agent relievers will shrink.  Perhaps from 7year deals to 5year deals.  If I’m a GM I don’t want to ask my owner to sign an uninsurable pitcher when I see what happened to Zito.  I say you try to get CC or Sheets at Zambrano+ money (5/$100) and see what happens.

MC- Willie was better in the field- Tony would be on the bench. And Babe wasn’t too bad in the field, he’s at least not as bad as Keller.

To say that the market in terms of number of years only rises and never falls is silly...

Except for the pesky little fact that the market has only risen and never fallen.  The only exception was collusion.

I say you try to get CC or Sheets at Zambrano+ money (5/$100) and see what happens.

What happens is you get laughed out of the room.  Not that there’s anything wrong with that; it’s not like it costs you anything or takes up a lot of your time.

So, irv, you saw Ruth and Lazzerri play, huh?

Maybe CC gets a huge contract, maybe not.  I’m sure teams will be a little bit shy after watching Zito suck.

Fact is, the Yanks get to set the market.  They are the marquee franchise with the most money to burn.  Free agents will always kick the Yanks tires to see what they can get.  Not too many teams will get in a bidding war with the Yanks - maybe Boston, if nothing else but to get the Yanks to spend more.

If Yanks offer CC the most money, then he’ll take it.  If that’s 5/90 or 7/120, so be it.

However, I doubt any agents will take the Yanks seriously during bargaining.  They saw how A-Rod acted and got rewarded.

Except for the pesky little fact that the market has only risen and never fallen.

Just to add my two-cents in...there have certainly been cases though where a player is willing to take less to play with a certain team.  E.g. Beltran was willing to take less to play for the Yankees, they just still weren’t willing to pay that much.

Why would they take less?  Sometimes it is the “hometown discount” (whether hometown for the player having played there before, or living near there).  Sometimes it is their lifelong dream to play for a certain team.  I’m sure sometimes they look at their options and figure what they’ll lose in salary they could make up for in endorsements in that area.

Will any of the (potentially) upcoming FA be willing to give a discount to the Yankees?  I have no idea.  But it is certainly worth-while to set a figure in years/$$, and make a phone call.  Hopefully of course - especially in pitching - the Yanks can find some long-term internal solutions.

If Yanks offer CC the most money, then he’ll take it.  If that’s 5/90 or 7/120, so be it.

If Sabathia keeps pitching the way he has in his last five games, and if he hits the open market, and if the Yankees get involved, he will get Santana money.  Those are a lot of ifs, but should those conditions be fulfilled, there’s no way he can be had for less than six years at less than $20M per.

I doubt that the Zito precendent will make a lot of teams shy away from truly elite FA pitchers in the future.  Most teams shied away from Zito because he was absolutely covered with red flags.  Sabean was widely ripped for that contract long before Zito ever threw a single ineffective pitch for the Giants, and rightfully so.  One misguided team going too hard after the wrong pitcher is not a market altering event.

Sheets, OTOH, has injury issues.  If Sabathia comes out of this season looking like he might have a few too many miles on the odometer, then the dynamic will change dramatically of course.  But a healthy 28 year old lefthanded power pitcher coming off of three straight seasons with 8 K/9 and 1.2 WHIP is going to get his money.  And then some.

Beltran was willing to take less to play for the Yankees, they just still weren’t willing to pay that much.

IIRC, he was willing to take one less year at pretty much the same annual rate.  I think Cashman correctly assumed that it was a ploy on Boras’ part to try to get the Yankees “involved” so the Mets (or another team) would go even higher.

I doubt any agents will take the Yanks seriously during bargaining.  They saw how A-Rod acted and got rewarded.

I don’t get how the A-Rod fiasco changes anything WRT the dynamics between agents and the Yankees’ FO.  The Yankees have almost never actually negotiated with a free agent.  When they want to sign one, they make an overwhelming offer.  Period.

IOW, there’s never been any reason for agents to take the Yankees seriously in negotiations before, so how does the A-Rod contract matter in that regard?

Sabathia has a red flag of his own: his weight.  Sure, he’s avoided problems from his weight so far, but it still is a big concern.  Especially if I’m spending Santana money on him.

When they want to sign one, they make an overwhelming offer.  Period.

That’s a pretty definitive statement.  Didn’t Pavano turn down more money to sign with the Yanks?  Did they make an “overwhelming” offer to Jaret Wright?  No.

IOW, there’s never been any reason for agents to take the Yankees seriously in negotiations before, so how does the A-Rod contract matter in that regard?

I take it you weren’t a business major.  It has everything to do with it.  Yanks told A-Rod not to opt out.  A-Rod did.  Yanks said they wouldn’t renegotiate the contract.  They did.

They pretty much showed their hand that they won’t stand fast during negotiations.  If you don’t think this will affect future FA negotiations, you’re crazy.  Who will ever believe the Yanks when they say “that’s our final offer?”

When it comes to trades, teams might believe Cashman.  He walked away from Santana.

When it comes to free agents, no way.  Hank showed when it comes to free agents and money, he’s in charge.  And he’s like his pop, a free spender with little backbone.

I take it you weren’t a business major.  It has everything to do with it.  Yanks told A-Rod not to opt out.  A-Rod did.  Yanks said they wouldn’t renegotiate the contract.  They did.

My point wasn’t that they played it well, but rather that the way they played it didn’t really represent a departure for them, and probably didn’t come as a surprise to any agents.  IOW, I don’t think anybody was taking them seriously in negotiations before the A-Rod fiasco, so I don’t think it will change anything going forward.  I thought I’d made that clear.  Like you said, Hank is just like George.  So where is the policy change that you think agents are going to respond to?

Pavano did reportedly have better offers, but I believe that the Yankee offer came first.  And in the context of that particular off-season, I think that 4/$40M can fairly be called overwhelming.  And you can’t seriously be comparing signing a Jaret Wright to signing a CC Sabathia.

And you can’t seriously be comparing signing a Jaret Wright to signing a CC Sabathia.

No.  I’m saying that the Yankees have been relatively quiet in the free agent market since breaking the bank with Giambi.  They overpaid for Pavano and Wright, and were burned, but at least the deals weren’t blockbusters in terms of total money and length.

Sabathia will more than likely get a huge contract, most likely from the Yankees.  This contract, like most of them, will bite the Yanks in the ass within a year or two.

Yes, Hank is like George, but for a couple of years, it looked like Cashman would sign free agents without too much meddling from George and his Tampa cronies.  All bets are now off, thanks to Hank getting intimately involved with the A-Rod contract.

And this will be trouble.  It’s no coincidence that the 90s dynasty started when George was suspended and actual baseball people ran the organization.  Now, it looks like Hank could start the Steinbrenner meddling if the Yanks don’t do great things this year.  That will be a disaster.

They overpaid for Pavano and Wright, and were burned, but at least the deals weren’t blockbusters in terms of total money and length.

Of course, that reflects the quality of the players involved more than any kind of organizational philosophy.

...for a couple of years, it looked like Cashman would sign free agents without too much meddling from George and his Tampa cronies

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that for a couple of years, Cashman was able to convince George and his Tampa cronies not to sign too many overpriced free agents?

They pretty much showed their hand that they won’t stand fast during negotiations.  If you don’t think this will affect future FA negotiations, you’re crazy.  Who will ever believe the Yanks when they say “that’s our final offer?”

I’d like to go back sometime and research all of the quotes leading up to the ARod fiasco, to try to piece things together.  The way I always took the Yankees’ stance leading up to the ARod situation was, “If you opt out of your contract and become a FA, we’re not going to pursue you”.  Perhaps just semantics, but how did the Yankees not hold firm?  They never once contacted ARod/Boras after he opted out.  ARod on the other hand went to the YANKEES, basically saying, “I screwed up”, and worked with them.  Take it for what you will. 

But I don’t think it would affect the Yankees at all to say, “this is our final offer”, and then go and do their own thing.  If the FA holds out for more, they just need to stick to their guns.  If a player wants to sign with the Yankees, he’ll sign - it may take a week longer, but it will happen.

I’d like to go back sometime and research all of the quotes leading up to the ARod fiasco, to try to piece things together.  The way I always took the Yankees’ stance leading up to the ARod situation was, “If you opt out of your contract and become a FA, we’re not going to pursue you”.

That may be right; however, I always took the Yanks line as “If you opt out, we’re not going to sign you.”

The underlying point of the Yankees’ stance was that they believed A-Rod had a fair deal and that they would only add on to the deal.

Even if I’m wrong about my interpretation, the Yanks made a mistake by signing A-Rod to the biggest contract ever after his mea culpa.  If the point was to not fork out so much money, then why draw the line in the sand in the first place?