Yeah, they should just sign A-Rod.

(Okay, fine, I admit: I got nothing.)

At this point, I rather lose with our guys than win with Santana… I JUST WANT THIS TO END!!!

By tomorrow morning we will know that Santana will wear pinstripes for the next 6 years. I don’t like that move at all, I like it less knowing that Pettitte will be in the rotation next year. But al least I hope we don’t give up Hughes and Kennedy.

With this situation going on I wonder if Cashman is running the Yankees the same way he did it the last 2 years. I just really don’t think so.

From River Avenue Watch Blog:
” A guy on the NYYFans message board is saying the Yankees and Twins have reached an agreement. Supposedly, he knows this from a contact at Goldman-Sachs. This is the same guy that knew about the A-Rod deal early because of the same source. Its probably nothing but I thought I`d mention it anyway. By the way, this guy is a Boston fan”

At this point, I rather lose with our guys than win with Santana…

I’m not going that far but it is depressing if Hughes is gone.  A lot of fans waited anxiously to see him develop as a Yankee.  Kinda sucks to have that all ripped away.

There’s a rumor that Tyler Clippard has been traded to the Nationals for Jonathan Albaladejo.  I’m looking for a link.

I can’t believe that, one week after Feely made a similar insane pass attempt that took away a chance for a tie game, Boller tries a similar pass attempt that took away a chance to ice the game for the Ravens.

Sooo annoying.

Ah well, I guess it WOULD be kinda hilarious to see the 0-14 Dolphins beat the 14-0 Patriots! :D

“A Red Sox official told Yahoo! Sports Tim Brown that he believed the Yankees and Twins were “very close” to completing a Johan Santana trade.”

For the love of Betsy…

Here you go.
Nationals Acquire Troubled Dukes

Nats Note: A source with knowledge of the situation said the Nationals traded reliever Jonathan Albaladejo to the New York Yankees in exchange for right-hander Tyler Clippard, pending physical examinations of both players. The 22-year-old, who went 3-1 with a 6.33 ERA filling in for the Yankees this year, has a 3.52 ERA over five minor league seasons. He should immediately be a contender for Washington’s rotation. Bowden did not return messages seeking comment on the deal.

Here’s a link SG.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/03/AR2007120302283_2.html

Shit, you got me beat.

I’m quick like that…

So what’s this guys deal?

Yes, who IS Jonathan Albaladejo, if that is indeed his name.

“A source with knowledge of the situation said the Nationals traded reliever Jonathan Albaladejo to the New York Yankees in exchange for right-hander Tyler Clippard”

Per BB-Ref, his middle name is Santana; maybe Hank got confused.

Is Albaladejo in any way different than the other mid-20’s guys with decent to good MiLB numbers but little MLB experience that the Yankees have?

BR Bullpen: Jonathan Albaledejo

6’5”, 260lbs.  Supposedly throws in the low 90s.  He’s 26 so not much upside.  CAIRO says he’d be good for the following line as a Yankee:

60 IP, 60 H, 29 ER, 8 HR, 14 BB, 41 K, 4.37 ERA.  So the Yankees basically traded for Jose Veras part two.

Wow, I really like that trade.

Jonathan Albaladejo is 24 years old, and had a GREAT year in AAA for the Nationals, and pitched well in the majors, too.

He’ll probably not amount to much, but he seems like he’ll have a very good shot at making the Yankees bullpen.

Clippard, meanwhile, should do well in the National League.

Nice trade all around!

Here’s his career stats, majors and minors.

Oh, 26 - my bad.

Yeah, I was just going to say he was basically Veras, but younger, and it appears that I am mistaken.

Still like the trade!

Brian’s right, he’s 24 not 26.  Nice ERA in AAA and Washington last year, but the rest of his career is fairly lackluster.  Maybe he figured something out.

It appears as though he was actually in between me and SG. He’s 25.

Ah well, I like the idea of taking a flier on a guy like this, and see what he can do. And Clippard’s trade value was pretty nil.

Thanks for the link, SG!

The Yanks just gave up on another 22 year old pitching prospect with a good track in the minors. And they traded him for an older and worse reliever? Ok. I just don’t agree with the way the doing trades lately.

As for the Twins, really - Kennedy? Seriously? The Yankees agonize for a day or so on Hughes, they finally give in, and you they say, “Give us Kennedy, too”?

If I’m the Yankees, I’m thinking the Twins are just fucking with me, hoping that the Red Sox will give Ellsbury and Lester.

The Yanks just gave up on another 22 year old pitching prospect with a good track in the minors. And they traded him for an older and worse reliever? Ok. I just don’t agree with the way the doing trades lately.

Clippard just got passed by a LOT of players on the “prospect chart,” and I think the Yankees have basically just given up on him.

So from their perspective, they see themselves giving up a guy who they’ve basically already written off and adding a piece to a team need - the bullpen.

Clearly, they think Albaladejo turned it around after being picked up by Washington.

I think it’s worth a shot to see if he has.

And besides being 24 and not 26, he also doesn’t walk 7 guys per 9. So he’s got that going for him. Clip was one of my favorite guys to follow, so I hope he does well in Wash. Last year was probably the time to trade him, sell high. But perhaps a reliever was the best you could expect for him.

I’m not necessarily expecting a resolution to this tonight, but I’m hoping the tooth fairy gives me Phil Hughes in the morning. Really, just for the sake of getting some work done, I hope this all ends soon. More exhausting than a 7 game ALCS series.

Maybe they traded for him because his middle name is Santana??

“Thanks for the link, SG!”

Yes, thanks SG, I’d never noticed the Bullpen before. He signed with the Nats as a minor league free agent before the 2007 season; aren’t those typically one year deals?

“Clippard just got passed by a LOT of players on the “prospect chart,” and I think the Yankees have basically just given up on him. “

I really think we sold low on Clippard here.

Last year was probably the time to trade him, sell high.

Yeah, but that’s the problem with prospects.

If the Yanks thought that Clippard was going to suddenly go off a cliff, then yeah, they’d trade him when his value was high (in 2006, he was being discussed as being used to get ABREU!), but that was pretty unexpected that his production would suddenly plummet.

That said, yeah, it’d have been nice to trade him BEFORE then.

I really think we sold low on Clippard here.

Definitely a fair stance.

It’s certianly a risk, but I think it’s a risk worth taking with all the pitchers passing him on the depth charts (and his all-around shitty second half of 07) for a pitcher who might very well help the team in 08 in a spot where they need help.

“aren’t those typically one year deals?”

Of course, revising myself, once he made the majors that likely started a whole new type of service time.

“I really think we sold low on Clippard here.”

Agree, I’m not sure why they wouldn’t give Clippard a chance to put up better numbers in the minors and restore some value. He’s still young. But if they like Albaladejo, so be it.

“Yeah, but that’s the problem with prospects. “

Thats a problem when you have bad scouts. I think we have been suffering from bad scouts the last few years.

I thoroughly enjoyed Clippards first start against the Mets.  That was a great game to watch.  I’m sad to see him go, but I’m not too upset.  Hopefully he’ll do well in the NL, and I do remember him spanking the ball at least once when they were playing at Shea.

I don’t really see how its a bad trade. They pick up a decent reliever for a pitching prospect with OK stuff but complicated mechanics who absolutely fell apart last year. They’re also dealing one of their many RHP prospects of whom they have many and most of whom have a much greater upside than Clippard does.

Clippard’s first start was pretty awesome but this isn’t a bad trade.

I think we have been suffering from bad scouts the last few years.

No. Bad scouts is what we had when we drafted Tyler Clippard (not saying Clippard was a bad selection in any way - just that the system was completely empty at that point). The Yankee scouting and player development departments have rapidly gone from maligned to highly respected in the last three years or so.

I don’t really see how its a bad trade. They pick up a decent reliever for a pitching prospect with OK stuff but complicated mechanics who absolutely fell apart last year. They’re also dealing one of their many RHP prospects of whom they have many and most of whom have a much greater upside than Clippard does.

Clippard’s first start was pretty awesome but this isn’t a bad trade.

Yeah, that’s basically my stance on this.

TyClip definitely has a chance to put together a nice career for the Nationals, in the weaker league in a division with mostly pitchers-parks. Had the Yankees’ pitching problems not been so dire back in April and May, Clippard probably doesn’t see the majors until August or September, and I think he would have fared a lot better. I’ll be rooting for him, and give him a token look on my fantasy team next year…

As for Albaladejo, the only negative I’ve found about him in the last 15 minutes of Google searches is that he was released by the Pirates in 2005 after his fastball dipped into the 80s and he got knocked around. Overall, his numbers are good and he looks like he figured it out, doing well in the high minors and a short stint with Washington last year.

I don’t really know what he gives the Yankees that Chris Britton and Ross Ohlendof don’t, other than the old “throw a bunch of them in there and see who sticks” strategy…

Thats a problem when you have bad scouts. I think we have been suffering from bad scouts the last few years

Ya think?

I dunno, I don’t think a guy completely falling apart AFTER playing well is all that predictable, but rather something that happens sometimes with the mercurial nature of prospects.

I mean, is the guy who scouted Rick Ankiel smart or dumb because Ankiel suddenly forgot how to pitch or is he smart for knowing that Ankiel could (assisted by some chemicals) become a major league outfielder seven years down the line?

A lot of this stuff can’t be predicted by scouting.

Bad scouting I think is just when a player doesn’t EVER play well (see the Pirates scouting the past decade or so).

This article makes it sound like both L.A. teams are in the Santana sweepstakes, too.  Not sure I believe it.

I don’t really know what he gives the Yankees that Chris Britton and Ross Ohlendof don’t, other than the old “throw a bunch of them in there and see who sticks” strategy…

I like that strategy when it comes to bullpens.

And yeah, I think Clippard will do well in the NL, as well. And he gets to bat there, too, which he seems to be decent at!

Best of luck to Clippard. I really liked him, but I just don’t see a future for him in NY, and I don’t think the Yankees could do better than a major league relief pitcher for him.

I went to Shea and saw this game with a bunch of Met’s fans. Tyler was impressive and I hoped for some good days with him. But, if this shores up the bullpen so be it. We already shaved a half run off our ERA innings 6-9 by getting rid of Torre anyway. This can only help.

Cnt Date       Tm   Opp GmReslt App,Dec IP   H R ER BB **SO** HR Pit ERA

1 2007-05-20   NYY @NYM W 6-2 GS-6 ,W 6   3 1 1 3   6   1 95 54 1.50

PS The Nats are my favorite team in the NL right now with Dukes, Milledge, and Young hitting in the middle of the order. When teams say they’re scared of those three, they’ll actually mean it!

“No. Bad scouts is what we had when we drafted Tyler Clippard”

I think the scouts that drafted him were good. But I read a million times that all over the minors scouts said that he did not have the stuff and the mechanics to succes in the majors. But the Yankees believed he was much better and did not sell high. I am tired of the Yankees protecting their prospects when they have a high value and then trading them when they are not doing good.

I bring this to the table because I don’t think Joba (as much as I like him better than Phil because he wasn’t a red sox fan) is a better pitcher than Hughes. I think both have the same chances, that are very good, to pitch in the front of any rotation of the league for years. But Hughes wasn’t very good in August and then the FO wants to trade him along with a solid CF that cost us nothing and maybe Kennedy (another 1st round pick) that cost us nothing for Santana. I really don’t think the organization is making the right moves.

While I still view Hughes very highly, Joba has to be considered a touch above him due to velocity and the break on his slider.

Oh and more compact delivery.

“While I still view Hughes very highly, Joba has to be considered a touch above him due to velocity and the break on his slider”

The velocity is because he was pitching out of the pen and Hughes came from an injury. And that is just a very small sample size of the time you saw them in yhe majors. But Hughes was a better prospect than Joba before then (witj a much larger sample size).

Umm, you do realize Joba was a starter in the minors right? 

Keith Law:

Chamberlain also projects as a No. 1 starter should the Yankees follow through on their plans to return him to the rotation. He has a plus fastball up to 98 and holds his velocity deep into games, with an excellent slider. His curve and changeup are projected to be average pitches.

Law personally clocked him maintaining 97-98 into the 7th inning.

“Law personally clocked him maintaining 97-98 into the 7th inning”

Wanna bet something that he doesn’t do it next year??

Wanna bet something that he doesn’t do it next year??

Depends on what you mean.  Every fastball isn’t going to be the same velocity.  Even in relief he’d stay around 96 most of the time.  But I’d bet he’ll be able to hit 98 if he needs/wants to.

Whether Joba turns out to be a better pitcher than Hughes is debatable, but Joba certainly has more electric stuff.  Joba has a better fastball, with excellent command and his slider is absolutely filthy.  Joba’s curve, which we saw only a handful of times, looked good as well - especially the time he froze Pedroia on a 3-2 pitch in Fenway.

I don’t think he’ll hit constantly 97 mph with his FB. But sure I hope so.

Whether Joba turns out to be a better pitcher than Hughes is debatable, but Joba certainly has more electric stuff.  Joba has a better fastball, with excellent command and his slider is absolutely filthy.  Joba’s curve, which we saw only a handful of times, looked good as well - especially the time he froze Pedroia on a 3-2 pitch in Fenway.

This is the point I was trying to make, but you put it exactly right.  Joba simply projects better because he has better pure stuff, better build, and better delivery.  That’s not saying Hughes won’t end up better, just Joba has everything you’d want in a front-line starter.

“Whether Joba turns out to be a better pitcher than Hughes is debatable, but Joba certainly has more electric stuff.”

I agree. But let me tell you that pitchers out of the pen have the better chances to show their stuff. Hughes has a very good stuff along with a good command and a good control and thats all you need to be a succesful starting pitcher. I can’t sleep knowing that he could be a Twin in a few hours.

I really don’t think the organization is making the right moves.

Let’s take it easy here, folks.  They’re selling a little low on Clippard, and I too would probably not trade Hughes/Melky+ for Santana, but there’s this sentiment that the Yankees are going off the rails here that I think is unfair.

It may suck emotionally, but trading for Santana is probably the rational thing to do.  I mean, as much as losing Hughes hurts, think about a rotation of Santana/Wang/Pettitte/Chamberlain/Kennedy with Mussina, Horne, Karstens etc. as depth.  That’s a great rotation, and only one(!) member is over the age of thirty.  And the Yankees still have many good, young right-handed arms on the way.  I mean, if you wanted to have sold high on Clippard, then dealing Hughes while his prospect star is still shining makes plenty of sense.

Again, I’m rooting for Hughes to stay, but I can’t say I’d be upset to have Santana.

As for Albaladejo, the Yanks basically need all the arms they can find for the pen in 2008 until Melancon, Sanchez and Cox are ready to fill the void in 2009.  From the stats I’ve seen, Albaladejo seems to induce plenty of ground balls, which is not a bad sign at all - although that’s tempered by having Jeter at SS.

By the way, another prospect for the pen next season, although it’s somewhat unlikely given that he’s never pitched above A+ ball, is George Kontos (unless he’s dealt as part of the Santana deal).  He’s basically a fastball/slider pitcher but he was rather impressive in the Hawaii Winter Baseball League.

Wanna bet something that he doesn’t do it next year??

Yeah, but that’s not exactly a huge knock on the guy, no?

I think Joba is a better prospect than Hughes, but Hughes is a very good prospect, too.

As for the whole selling low thing, I think the Yankees think Clippard’s value will likely DROP this upcoming season, so they want something for him now.

Between Britton and Albaladejo, the Yanks will certainly have a few potential sumo wrestlers in the pen next season.  Now all they need is Bobby Jenks to complete the trifecta.

What’s Rich Garces up to these days?

Maybe he can’t get out of the house to try out anymore…

So are we going to have a resolution by the time I wake up tomorrow AM?  Because tomorrow’s a busy day and I gotta take care of things other than clicking on refresh.

Little Stein just can’t cave on IPK being the 3rd piece, right?  Not after the comments in Sunday’s Times—“How can I go any higher?...“What do they want — Hughes, Kennedy and Cabrera? I can’t do that kind of thing. It’s crazy. It’s suicidal.”  Or am I being naive? 

I dunno…for the first time in a few days I’m fgeeling like the smart money is on this thing not happening.  Little Stein in today’s NYT: “If things don’t change drastically, it’ll probably be no.”

But me…I don’t want to see a rerun of this saga with Haren or Bedard.  Do folks here think either is worth the Hughes package because there’s no $100m contract is involved?  With #46 back in the fold, I’d just as soon head to Tampa with the horses we’ve got. 

Jesus fuckin Christ, some balls on this Bill Smith guy.  Now if they can’t have IPK, they want Horne and A-Jax.  So says Heyman.

Enough already.  Walk away from this madness.

“Now, strongly desired by both clubs, [Kennedy] will apparently go down as the piece that kept Santana from landing in the Bronx.”

From mlb.com

Here.

According to Tyler Kepner, the Twins have dropped their demand that IPK be included in the deal.  Whether this makes a trade more likely is anyone’s guess.

They don’t have to walk away.  Leave the Hughes/Melky/B-level on the table but go about your business as if the deal’s not happening.  If, when Smith comes crawling back, there are no CF replacements available and the Yanks aren’t happy putting Damon out there, then they can say too late.

I can’t keep up with this shit.

I like to imagine how these meetings between the Twins and Yankees are playing out since they’re seemingly so far apart.

“We want Kennedy included.”
“No, you can have Marquez or Gonzales.”
“Ok, we’ll take Horne and Jackson then.”
“No.”

They can’t be lasting very long, right?

I’ve been for the Santana trade all this time, even with Hughes involved, but with the Twins playing the Yankees off the Red Sox, and making absurd demands, I’d like to see the Yankees stick to their guns and bow out.  Best case scenario: Santana isn’t traded and refuses to go mid season.

Well Frog, I won’t sleep well till Hughes is completely off the table in any deal.  It wasn’t exactly SALT II or anything, but I’ve negotiated on things before, and it just seems long past fuck you time on the Johan saga.

This latest from Newsday’s blog

Yeah, I don’t even, like, hate Bill Smith for it, I just think he’s going about this the wrong way. He’s a new GM, and wants to make sure people don’t think he’s weak, but instead, he seems to be giving off the air of being a bit of a jerk.

The Yanks AGONIZED over giving up Hughes, they finally do so, and the Twins basically were, “Yeah, whatever. Talk to us when you’re gonna give us Kennedy, too.”

I think the whole time, Smith has had no real interest in the Yankees offer, and really wants Ellsbury and one of the two Boston pitchers, and is just coming up with ridiculous offers to the Yankees on the off chance they actually comply with them, but really just hoping Boston will agree to move Lester and Ellsbury.

Horne AND Jackson - give me an effin’ break.

Thanks, B-Man.

So we’ll have to go through this AGAIN TOMORROW?

So annoying.

And let’s not forget that, although Melky is only league average, his departure would create a huge dilemma, necessitating a bad contract to Aaron Rowand, too mant AB’s for Brett Gardner, or girly arm in CF 7 days a week—all 3 less-than-ideal scenarios.

And the supreme irony of the whole thing, as I see it, is that Nathan would’ve been the better fit all along.  Fer chrissakes, even before the Pettitte announcement we had 5 starters I would’ve gladly taken to the foxhole with me, but we were all supposed to be spooked because 3 of them were rookies. 

Meanwhile we have exactly 1 reliever that could be trusted with an 8th inning, 4-run playoff lead—and yes, I know that was the Torre school of bullpen management.  It’s been the pen all along that has been the glaring weakness (right j)?.  I saw today where the Red Sox are players for Brian Fuentes, which would be very distressing if it happened.

‘Course Nathan won’t happen now because a). the well is pretty ewell-poisoned with Minnesota and b). if the Twins end up keeping Johan, they certainly keep Nathan as well.

Well put in #67 Brian.

Great, now talks between the Twins and Red Sox are supposedly moving forward.  If Santana to the Sox deal is in place when I wake up, I’ll be so pissed.

And the plot thickens…

Rotoworld:

The Boston Globe reports that the Red Sox have traded medical information with the Twins on Jon Lester in a possible prelude to a Johan Santana deal.

It sounds as though something is brewing. If the Red Sox are giving up both Jacoby Ellsbury and Lester, it might mean the Twins are sending back a sweetener. Of course, it’s possible Ellsbury isn’t in the deal, but we really don’t see how the Twins could do a deal without him.

At this point I almost don’t care if they get him.

Damn just about everyone’s gone to bed.

While it would obviously be a total pain in the ass, I say screw it, let the Red Sox have him.

At this point, it’d honestly be a relief.

By the by, I get it - Ellsbury is the guy everyone wants, but for crying out loud, the idea of the Twins throwing in a freakin’ SWEETENER to get him is so freaking absurd.

Ah well, it’s what the Red Sox get for bargaining from a position of amazing strength. They have THREE top prospects to trade, and they could lose ALL THREE and not really be affected that much in 2007.

The Yankees, on the other hand, are counting on Hughes AND Melky in 07.

When the Yankees say, “We are ready to walk away,” the Twins think, “Yeah, right.”

When the Red Sox say it, they believe it. Heck, that’s why Epstein didn’t bother MAKING a deadline, because he knows that the Twins know that he doesn’t really NEED to make a deal here.

By the by, let’s say it finishes with the Twins getting Lester and Ellsbury for him - Smith will have gotten what he wants, but at the price of totally pissing the Yankees off. I don’t think that’s prudent.

Woah, woah, woah.

When I wrote the comment above, it was under the impression that the Red Sox had upped their offer, and were tossing Lester into the previous Ellsbury deal.

But while I am sure Stark and Olney do not know the specifics at ALL, they seem to think that (for whatever bizarre reason) that the Twins asking for Lester’s medical files mean that the Twins are ready to take the Lester/Lowrie/Crisp/Masterson deal!!

I think he’s just totally incorrect, in that it is highly unlikely that the Twins would value that over Hughes/Melky/lesser prospect.

But I dunno, I guess I figure Stark and Olney must have SOME info I don’t, so if they are saying

If the Twins were satisfied with Lester’s medicals, it’s believed they would accept a swap of him, Coco Crisp, shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie and either highly regarded pitching prospect Justin Masterson or another player.

If the Twins were satisfied with Lester’s medicals, it’s believed they would accept a swap of him, Coco Crisp, shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie and either highly regarded pitching prospect Justin Masterson or another player.

Or if the Twins reversed field and decided they wanted center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury instead, it’s believed that would be a 3-for-1 trade—with only Ellsbury, Masterson and Lowrie going to Minnesota.

Then what the hell?!?!

The deadline was intended to nudge the Twins into action. Little did the Yankees suspect it might actually work to the Red Sox’s benefit.

Little did the Yankees suspect? How could ANYone expect that the Yankees deadline on their offer would make the Twins take a WORSE deal from the Red Sox??!

I guess they really like Lowrie.

Ah well. It’s nuts.

Am I under-rating Lester or something- what do the Twins see in this guy?  I see him equal to Ian Kennedy, not Phil Hughes.  I guess Ellsbury is on par with Hughes so he better be included.  If The Yanks pull out Hank should say that The Twins were asking too much considering the fact that the Yanks were prepared to open up the bank for Santana on a major $, long-term deal.  Drive up his price!  God, why are the LA Dodgers so inept?

Leave the Hughes/Melky/B-level on the table but go about your business as if the deal’s not happening.

The problem with that is that going about your business could mean moving some of the same players in another deal.  For all the pissing and moaning about Yankee tactics from some quarters, it’s actually a lot more honest to pull the deal off the table, than to supposedly leave a standing offer out there and have the other GM read about you dealing with a different team on ESPN.com.

Am I under-rating Lester or something- what do the Twins see in this guy?

They see a league-average major league starting pitcher, who has shown that he can start a big game without falling apart.  Yes, he’s closer to Kennedy than he is to Hughes, but there’s nothing wrong with that.

Also, I think it’s important to separate Hank’s bluster from the actual negotiations. If Santana goes to Boston, my 0.02, in hindsight, will be that all the speculation about the Twins using the Red Sox to jack up the price for New York had it exactly backwards.  They’ve preferred Boston’s chips all along, and have been using the threat of dealing with the Yankees to try to get a better package.  Of course, they’d love to have Buchholz, Ellsbury, Lowrie and Bowden, but that wasn’t happening unless the Yankees offered Cabrera, Hughes, Kennedy, and Jackson.  They’re happy with Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson.  Or Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson, filler.  If Boston really won’t budge on Ellsbury and Lester in the same deal, then I’m sure the Twins will still try to get Bowden instead of Masterson.

Remember, it misses the point to compare any Boston deal to what the Twins wanted from the Yankees—you have to compare them to what the Yankees offered.  Like I said last week, the difference is Lowrie.  This guy can really hit, and he is at least nominally a shortstop.  Trading with the Red Sox lets the Twins fill two glaring positional needs, plus get a solid mid-rotation started and a pitching prospect.  Trading with the Yankees only fills one positional need, and nets prospects who probably give you less certainty, even if they have more upside.

So, Boston adds Johan Santana and keeps Ellsbury and Buchholz? Fantastic!

In the end, the Yanks need to keep their young position players because their lineup will need to be rejuvenated in the next few years.  If I were Cashman, I’d add pitching to make the deal work (that is, if they want the deal to work) but Austin Jackson and Tabata need to remain off limits.

How about that Veterans’ committee electing the brilliant Bowie Kuhn to the HOF and ignoring Marvin Miller?

it’s actually a lot more honest to pull the deal off the table, than to supposedly leave a standing offer out there and have the other GM read about you dealing with a different team on ESPN.com.

Why can’t you do both?  You tell Minnesota, “Here’s the deal.  But we’re not waiting for you, we’re going out to look for other stuff.  If we have a deal for a starter we’re happy with, or one of these players goes in a trade for something else, deal’s off.”

At that point the Yankees can then talk to Oakland, Baltimore, Cleveland, whoever about upgrading their team.  If Minnesota starts hearing the Yankees are talking about moving Cabrerra to Oakland for Street (and no, I’m not suggesting that is possible), and they really want Melky, that may have them bite at it.  There’s nothing dishonest about telling someone the trade is still available as long the status-quo remains.

Damn that Bill Smith.  I’ve hated him ever since he was the Islanders’ goalie in the early 80s.

I’d love to think Hank is done negotiating with Minnesota, but I can’t trust him.  He said he wouldn’t deal with A-Rod, then negotiates a contract that, with incentives, will give A-Rod more money than if A-Rod had signed an extension and not opted out.

But if Cashman tells Smith that the Yanks deal stands, and then starts negotiating with other teams, I think it will work for the best.

I think MC in VA is right - Twins really want position prospects and Red Sox have better ones than the Yanks.  Smith is using the Yanks to get to Boston.  If this is the case, then the Yanks will definitely have to overpay to land Santana. 

Twins probably want IPK so they can flip him for the position prospects the Yanks lack.

At this point, let Boston overpay for Santana, in terms of prospects and money, and let the Yanks trade for a more reasonable option in the rotation, if they decide to do anything at all.

Let the kids in the rotation mature in 2008.  Get A-Jax ready in the minors.  See if Marquez and Horne can mature enough to land a young position player.  Open the checkbook for a big name FA pitcher after the 2008 season.

Then you’ll be ready for the WS, while Boston scrambles to replace Manny’s bat and Schilling’s innings.

I have the same fear Yatt.  That Hank got all blustery under the assumption that the Twins were pulling back altogether and there would be no Johan deal with anyone.  Faced with the prospect of Boston getting him, does he cave at the 11th hour on IPK? 

At this point, let Boston overpay for Santana, in terms of prospects and money, and let the Yanks trade for a more reasonable option in the rotation, if they decide to do anything at all.

I just don’t see a reasonable option for the rotation that doesn’t involve trading Hughes.  Leave the rotation be and investigate bullpen upgrades.

I’m thinking The Yanks should beef up at 1B- maybe they can routinely get Johan, Becket, and Matsusaka out of the game in the 5th or 6th inning.  What do you think it would take to get Loney from LA?  Would they take Matsui,  Kennedy, and Eric Duncan?  Maybe they can revisit the Ensberg platoon idea.  Or maybe they can acquire Miggy Cabrera (who supposedly lost 15 lbs) for 1B.  Would Kennedy, Tabata, Horne, and Duncan bring back Miggy?

Or maybe The Yanks should just focus on Joe Nathan when Johan goes.

Article on espn.com here about how Nathan is on the block.

I know we all hate Bill Smith right now but I wouldn’t mind (too much) if Santana goes to the Sox and then the Yankees use their previous discussions with the Twins as a way to address Nathan.  Of course, I wouldn’t accept Hughes going in that deal, and Melky will almost certainly be irrelevant by then.  It would probably take a package built around Kennedy and I’m not sure whether that would be a fair price to pay.  So now I don’t know what to say, and I kind of take it all back, but I’ll submit this comment anyway just to see what you all think or at least to give you the opportunity to ignore me.

guys, the only reason anyone cares about losing Clippard is b/c you can remember following him when there was nothing else to follow.

but in reality, what is he, a C- prospect?

that is the type of guy you trade if you think you are getting something to help your team any day.

you guys should be thrilled with this trade if for no other reason that 2-3 years ago it would be considered a big deal, but now the yankees can trade guys like Clippard without even blinking b/c there are what, 5-6 RH starters ahead of him on the depth chart?

also, i’m not sure, but how much of this was simply driven by a roster crunch?  would albaladejo have to be added to the 40 man right away?

But me…I don’t want to see a rerun of this saga with Haren or Bedard.  Do folks here think either is worth the Hughes package because there’s no $100m contract is involved?

the yankees are NOT going to trade Hughes for Haren.

Hughes is untouchable.

the yankees made a ONE TIME exception because the player was Johan Santana.

there is ZERO CHANCE they trade Hughes for Haren.

that doesn’t mean they won’t pursue him with IPK and others, but no way do they trade Hughes for Dan Haren.

What do you think it would take to get Loney from LA?  Would they take Matsui, Kennedy, and Eric Duncan?

If they haven’t so far been prepared to throw Loney’s name out there in the MigCab sweepstakes…why would the Dodgers offer hm up for the lesser Matsui, even if they are also getting IPK?  (Pitching isn’t really their urgen need). 

Colletti apparently believes hiring Joe T. is all that separates him from the stiff NL West competition.

I could see the Yanks getting Bedard without surrendering Hughes.  I say this because as a VA resident, I’ve watched Angelos and Co. screw up a once proud franchise in every way imaginable.

If they were willing to give Britton for Wright, I’m thinking Cashman could get Bedard on the cheap (relatively).

I’m really not sold on Haren - I wouldn’t give an IPK package for him.  He looks good because he’s cheap but that shouldn’t be a driving factor for the Yanks to make the trade.

Would Kennedy, Tabata, Horne, and Duncan bring back Miggy?

Isn’t this considerably less than the Angels’ package that Florida bailed on at the last second? 

Despite the statement a few weeks ago that none of the young pitching would be traded for a position player, now that other GMs know Hughes isn’t completely untouchable he’ll be the first one they ask for.  Especially since the Marlins (MigCab), Orioles (Bedard), A’s (Haren) all can offer players who can have a Santana impact without a Santana price tag.

I HATE the NL.  The only team that is aggressive is The Mutts and I hate them as much as Boston.  Between winning a fluke World Series and trading their best players to the RedSox and Mets, Florida causes us more aggrevation than anyone. The Cubs were aggressive for 1 off-season now they are clowns again.  I hope Mark Cuban buys them (if he doesn’t buy the Knicks from that savage Dolan that is).

Yatt, I think they have actually turned over a new leaf in Baltimore, with MacPhail calling the shots and having a head on his shoulders.

Sorry to pick on Pags Rags…the idea about beefing up the offense with a 1B acquisition that you’ve been pushing is beginning to grow on me.  But who?  Anyone young (pre-free agency eligibility, in some cases pre-arb.)—LaRoche/Garko/Conor Jackson I think are among the names you mentioned—is going to cost Kennedy and then some.  I don’t see where that makes sense.

I guess sending a bunch of dreck to Seattle for Sexson—I’m sure they’d love to dump his salary—is possible.  Maybe Igawa and a low-level prospect would get it done.  But there’s a risk that last year wasn’t a fluke but the beginning of a precipitous decline.  I can see Sexson waving futilely at a lot of Johan change-ups.

Acquiring Richie Sexson makes sense… never.

Yatt, I think they have actually turned over a new leaf in Baltimore, with MacPhail calling the shots and having a head on his shoulders.

We’ll see how much latitude MacPhail has.  Angelos is a poor man’s Steinbrenner - he’s in charge.  Angelos has killed the Orioles and will continue to do so until he sells the team for a hefty profit.  Maybe he’s changed his tune now that the Nats are in town.  Maybe he realizes he needs a good team to lure in the fans.  We’ll see.

A platoon of Shelley Duncan and Wilson Betemit will produce just as much as Sexon at a fraction of the price.

man, what a crock of shit this is if the Sox get Johan for the package floating around.

what can the yankees do about that? 

how do you stop a team from accepting an inferior package?

guys, the only reason anyone cares about losing Clippard is b/c you can remember following him when there was nothing else to follow.

but in reality, what is he, a C- prospect?

Agreed.  It’s just funny because I don’t think people were describing him as a C- last winter.  IIRC, he was the next thing to get excited about after Hughes.  No one wants to sell low on prospects like Clippard, but of course if anyone comes after our prized prospects we’ll cry rape. 

Albaladejo strikes me as potentially the kind of lightning-in-a-bottle that good bullpens are made of.  You don’t build a pen by giving $5 mil for 3 years to the Chad Bradfords and Danys Baezes of the world. 

That said, it would be nice to have at least one more guy out there who’s proven he can get major leaguers out consistently over time.

A platoon of Shelley Duncan and Wilson Betemit will produce just as much as Sexon at a fraction of the price.

Yes I think you’re right.  Though there’s certainly a track record of more.  Jumping off PagsRags’ point, I was thinking out loud about ways to acquire more offense on the cheap (in terms of players not $).