Yes.

I’m shaking my fist at the sky and screaming Farnsworth into the distant, malevolent night.

Yes, they suck. We might be looking at an 83 win season baby.

The starting pitching basically does right now. Horrible job by Pettitte.

WWWW?

Hit? In the clutch?

Robinson, wake up!

88 win prediction made before season started, I’ll stick with that, for now.

I know Derek Jeter isn’t the problem. But maybe he represents the problem? The team seems to be going through the motions. They’ve read how they’re still a few games better than last year. They remember how they made the playoffs last year (not the panic and scramble to get there). Which brings me to Jeter. The guy hits a shot to right late in the game tonight, rounds first on the way to second—and blows a bubble with the gum in his mouth as he rounds the base. Then he looks not once but twice at the right fielder fielding the ball off the baggy and nailing him at second. I know, it was a perfect throw. But Jeter never blows those aren’t-I-cool bubbles in the playoffs. And watching the fielder only slows a runner down. Along with Melky with that lazy throw over Abreau’s head, Cano going through the motions, Damon with his mugging for the camer, they don’t seem focused or into the games. They really should get rid of Torre and hire a fiery manager like Girardi. Guess that isn’t helping much. I bet Cash makes a big trade to try to shake the lethargy.

God, what a hockey game.

You know you’re really freakin’ spoiled as a baseball fan when you use the word “suck” to describe a team hovering around .500 while no other team is really running away with the pennant.

The Royals suck.  The Pirates suck.  Most of the NL West sucks.  Nick Johnson’s complete inability to stay healthy for any length of time sucks.  $56 a pop for outfield mezzanine seats sucks, even with an $18 food credit.  Getting old sucks.  Dying young sucks.  Not being able to spell “Abreu” sucks.

The Yankees do not suck.

Daivd Oritz is out for at least a month.

Anyone questioning Melky or Jeter or Damon or Robinson’s effort is imagining things.

Do you think Sabathia and Sheets will become available during the season?

And if so, would you trade Hughes for either one of them? Or rather, do you think the Yankees would?

And no, they don’t suck.

Ortiz is a big loss for Boston, but I wonder what the downgrade is from Manny LF, Ortiz DH to Coco LF, Manny DH.  That has to be what a 20-30 run per season upgrade on D?

[6] sums up my feelings exactly.

Would anybody take Hughes in a trade until he comes back healthy?  Is that likely to happen before the deadline?

Trading for Sabathia brings back the same arguments as why they shouldn’t have traded for Santana.  Except Santana was a far superior pitcher to C.C., and he still wasn’t worth it.

Sheet can’t stay healthy.  Do we really need another Pavano?  Especially if we have to give up Hughes for him?  And isn’t Sheets an FA after this season anyhow?

I kind of agree with Steve Goldman in the sense that if it seems like the team isn’t going anywhere, I’d trade away a couple of vets to a contender and get some ML-ready prospects in return, rather than try to make yet another last-gasp effort to bow out of the playoffs in the first round.

If Hughes comes back healthy, I’d rather have Hughes.

You can’t trade Hughes now, his value is at a low point. Besides, when he comes back, he’s going to be nasty.

The Sox are taking the risky, non-surgical approach to fixing Ortiz’ wrist. Sounds like good news.

hahaha. i love you mc

oliver perez sucks

It appears Perez vs SF was a terrible spot start in fantasy.

josh hamilton has 16 homers and 65 RBIs.

last year on june 2nd A-Rod had 19 homers and 45 RBIs.

Who knew SF could score 6 runs in a game, let alone 0.1 of an inning!

I wonder what the downgrade is from Manny LF, Ortiz DH to Coco LF, Manny DH.  That has to be what a 20-30 run per season upgrade on D?

I’m pretty sure it will be Crisp in CF and Ellsbury in LF.  And yes, it is a big defensive upgrade, but it’s a pretty damned big offensive drop from David Americo to Covelli Loyce.

It appears Perez vs SF was a terrible spot start in fantasy.

I’ll remember to mention that to my son at breakfast.

Hughes may himself be an injury waiting to happen.

I kind of agree with Steve Goldman in the sense that if it seems like the team isn’t going anywhere, I’d trade away a couple of vets to a contender and get some ML-ready prospects in return, rather than try to make yet another last-gasp effort to bow out of the playoffs in the first round.

I’m not taking a shot you ym, but this is one of those things that sounds really great “The team isn’t going anywhere, so let’s unload the vets for some prospects!” but is actually pretty meaningless. Most of the vets either aren’t going anywhere (Jeter, A-Rod, Mo, Posada) or aren’t bringing anything better than a B- prospect back (Abreu, Farnsworth, Giambi).

I suppose there’s something to be said for collecting a handful of B- prospects, but if the choice is a few B- prospects or taking a shot at the playoffs, you might as well take the shot at the playoffs.

The Yankees do not suck.

Depends on what metric you use.  In terms of Wins/$ spent the Yankees do in fact suck.

Ortiz is a big loss for Boston, but I wonder what the downgrade is from Manny LF, Ortiz DH to Coco LF, Manny DH.  That has to be what a 20-30 run per season upgrade on D?

Yeah, 20 runs seems about right.

Farnsworth and Abreu are worth more as type A FA’s than what they’ll bring in a trade. Assuming Farnsworth is a type A.

I’m pretty sure it will be Crisp in CF and Ellsbury in LF.  And yes, it is a big defensive upgrade, but it’s a pretty damned big offensive drop from David Americo to Covelli Loyce.

Of course.  A little ballpark estimate looking at BPro, it appears Ortiz is 40-45 runs better per 150 games then Coco.

I agree wholeheartedly, RB.  But maybe some sort of 3-way trade?  I have no idea…I just don’t know that picking up a Ben Sheets at the cost of our own blue-chippers is necessarily a good move, either.

Cuddyer’s throw wasn’t a web gem, I think that’s ridiculous.

Assuming Farnsworth is a type A.

Farnsworth was in the middle of the type B’s last year.  I don’t see him moving up into the type A range.

Suck suckity suck: suck suck.

God, what a hockey game.

Holy fuck yes.

My take after seeing two games in person this weekend and two on tv. Yanks were incredibly lucky to win Sat night when Lamb’s ball misses getting out by a foot. They were sloppy Friday as well. A-rod had time to pound his glove on one to his left and it goes well under his glove for an rbi. An ‘ole job. Abreu was great in the Friday game and stunk tonite and mostly in the clutch the last two games. Lack of effort. I don’t know. I saw Jeter look terrible Friday and most of Saturday on offense and then voila he gets a big single in the top of the 12th.  He then was patient on Sunday getting two walks early and really hits one out in the fifth which was fun to see. Tonight except for his misjudgement he looked like he was hitting as he did prior to his hand injury.

It seems the team got the least out of many situations in this series.  Friday they ran on Mauer and tonite they mostly didn’t. I called the double play ball by Matsui in the ninth. I just kind of expected it. I wondered if Joe G thought about stealing in the 9th.

During the series Arod left a number of people on base yesterday in particular and really it hurts most when there’s a guy on third with less than two outs. They did that alot.  A very uneven offensive display and after lucking out the first two- mostly- it hurts to see them go out with a split.

Minnesota has inferior personnel but they got more out of their guys in my estimation.  I think the Twins front office and manager Gardenhire are top notch. They have won four divisions since 2002 with a meager payroll limit so it says something.

I saw this Patterson yesterday and his delivery looks like he’s trying to throw his shoulder out of place. It’s wierd. Funny in a tight game Girardi chooses him first yesterday over Britton who acutally has played in a previous MLB game. Must have been with Baltimore? just kidding.

The Yankees are not playing near their capability but for one time I must admit that I agree with that nutty former GM of the Mets. I think starting right now may be good for Joba but the team will continue to suffer as long as Girardi is in love with Farny’s stuff.  They can’t make the playoffs as they now are constituted in the pen in my opinion. A trade could change things.

I just read the SI story on Hamilton and was wondering if any team could have gotten him besides the Reds when he was on his lowest point. Two teams still had a clue he could be worth something. The Yanks weren’t one of them evidently.

Farnsworth drives me insane. I stepped back for a moment and realized that his ~4.5 ERA as a Yankee means you can pretty much count on him giving up 1 run every other inning all season long.

Only possible consolation about tonight’s game: Farns’ outing hopefully means he won’t be back in there tomorrow to muck things up for Joba.

Hughes’ trade value is not high, but if I’m Cleveland or Milwaukee, and I decide I am not going to be able to re-sign my guy, I’d take Hughes for either one of them (if I was Cleveland and Milwaukee).

I’d also take the top pitching prospect from any number of other teams, too, of course. Other teams might not be willing to deal their top guys, though.

I think Sabathia is the one most likely to be moved - Cleveland has a decent rotation withOUT him, and he’s not having a great season but he’ll still make a crapload of money as a FA, so I think they’re better served by dealing him this year (unless they’re in the race, of course).

Sheets is trickier - as the Brewer really need him - he’d have to make it clear that he is not going to re-sign with them.

As for whether they Yankees SHOULD make that deal if offered to them - it really depends on what you think Hughes will be in the future.

I think I’d hold on to him to see if the injury was why he was sucking, but boy,  would it be tempting.

Why can’t the front office find a right handed bat somewhere that can help?
Who was that guy Cleveland got rid of that was previously a Phillie? Jason Michaels or whatever his name is. He looked pretty good against NY at times.

Jason Michaels was at .207/.258/.276 when the Indians traded him to the Pirates and against lefties: .171/.256.200.  Last year he went for .270/.324/.397.  He does have some more positive platoon splits in his past, but he’s hardly the solution to this team’s problems.

I don’t have high expectations for Joba tomorrow b/c I don’t think he’ll throw more than 4 innings due to high pitch count.  I hope Joba pitches to a 125 ERA+ but I suspect it may be closer to 100-110 and about 5 IPs/start

that was fun to watch

Not being able to spell “Abreu” sucks.

I laughed very, very hard reading this.

Do the Yankees suck? no. Are they good? no. Will I continue to answer my own questions? yes.

Is trading Hughes now a good idea? No. Is trading some vets at the deadline if the Yankees have no chance a good idea? Yes. Will they likely be that far out at the trade deadline? I doubt it.

Am I enjoying this far too much? It is decidedly so.

Have I turned into a magic 8 ball? Signs point to yes.

Will I continue this? Very doubtful.

I don’t see why anybody needs to go to the extreme of claiming Steve Phillips is right—that way madness lies!  Seriously:  look at Edwar’s stats, then look at Farns’s stats (linger on the “HR” column), then ask yourself who would be the 8th inning guy on your team?  Phillips was babbling on about the big thing the Yanks did wrong was not signing a “proven 8th inning guy”.....like such guys are common.  You get these guys by trying out every failed starter with a plus pitch in your system; not by pretending Kyle Farnsworth and LaTroy Hawkins will become Scot Shields with a change of scenery.

I expect Joba to stink it out tomorrow, because this season has been a giant suckhole of frustration thus far and sooner or later the Yanks will fail to rebound from a crappy start. 

Y’know what’d be interesting?  If Dice-K and Ortiz are both out for a while.  Maybe we could catch the Sox and duel for the wild card?

Did Phillips seriously criticize them for not getting an eighth-inning guy?

Hole-ee shit.

That’s totally nutso.

The whole is less than the sum of the parts.

Why blame Farnsworth (a saint Brian signing)? Pettitte deserves far more opprobrium.

Phillips was babbling on about the big thing the Yanks did wrong was not signing a “proven 8th inning guy”

But the Yankees did sign a proven 8th inning guy.  Two of them actually.

talent wise, no ... but their perpetual early season struggles is annoying to say the least.

I don’t think he’ll throw more than 4 innings due to high pitch count

High is relative.  Chamberlain’s P/PA is 4.21 (same as Scott Kazmir).  That’s about 11% above MLB average.  He is only going to be allowed to throw ~65-70 pitches.  Four innings is just about exactly what we should expect tonight.  If he lowered his P/PA to league average, he’d be able to pitch to two more batters.

I agree with SG - this team spent far too much money to win this many games.  From a purely financial standpoint, they suck.  If 200 million is the going rate for a .500 team, then I guess they don’t suck.

These are the games you are going to lose if you want Joba in the rotation.  Just get used to that.  Farnsworth isn’t an 8th inning guy anymore.  Neither is Hawkins.  They are two of the many examples why free agent relivers don’t always work out so well.

Is Edwar the 8th inning guy?  It remains to be seen.  He does need to be given a chance.

Expecting Hughes to come back nastier than ever is a rosy prediction.  Don’t lean on that as a crutch.  Most prospects fail - even the ones predicted to be nasty.  Until Hughes can stay healthy and perform, don’t expect much from him.  He’s fighting the odds and not just his health.

This is the reason Cashman is stockpiling arms - he knows most will fail.  The Hughes/IPK/Joba trifecta reminds me of hype around the Mets Wilson/Pulsipher/Isringhausen trifects.  That didn’t work too well for the Mets.  At least it didn’t work as expected.

Yanks really have no recourse but to get the young guys like Joba into the rotation and find a young guy to bridge to Mo.  If it works this year, great.  But it’s important to do it now so they will be ready for next year.

These are the games you are going to lose if you want Joba in the rotation.

And there are games you’ve already lost with Joba sitting on his thumbs in the bullpen.  Your point?

That didn’t work too well for the Mets.

Making/letting those three pitch through injuries was a big reason that it didn’t work out too well.  So I’d say the organization deserves credit not just for stockpiling young arms, but for being careful with them as well.

I’m going to start off by saying that I would be much more comfortable with Farnsworth being the “seventh inning guy”, and Edwar being the “eighth inning guy”, for now at least.  But someone above pointed out how many homers Farnsworth has given up.  If you look at his HR/FB rate, it is astronomically high, 29%.  Which is also why his xFIP is a tidy 3.62.  Basically, that is a number you would expect to regress closer to the league-average (not sure what it is, but guessing between 10-15%).  IF Farnsworth can keep up what he’s been doing, and the HR/FB rate regresses, he’ll be a useful pitcher this year.

I think you started a discussion like this last year SG, and after that the Yankees went on one of their better 100 game runs of the last decade, to make the playoffs.  If it works again this year, you know you’re obliged to start a discussion like this after a dispiriting loss, 1/3rd of the way through the season, every year, right?

I think the word we are looking for is INCONSISTENT.  They just can’t put it all together at the same time for any extended period.  Cano has been better but nowhere near his own high standards.  Matsui has been very good, Giambi has been surprisingly good, Abreu and A-rod are about what you’d expect) but overall too many guys are underperforming (Cano, Jeter lately, Damon).

Even the pitching is inconsistent.  Pettitte has fallen off from a good start.  Wang as well.  Mussina has been better than anticipated, as has Rasner since being called up.  The ballyhooed rookies were awful. 

The hot weather starts this week (80s up here in Buffalo) and to me, that signals the official time when the Yankees start getting serious.  But if we’re still here at July 1, I’ll be ready to concede that the team’s going nowhere.

And I’m willing to accept a go-nowhere season so long as it develops the young guys, gets dead weight off the roster this winter, and puts together a lean, mean, serious contender heading into 2009.

Farnsworth has a flat fastball that he leaves over the middle of the plate quite often- not sure I ever want to see him in a playoff game. 

As far as this Joba thing goes, I fully agree with trying to make him a SP but I am a bit puzzled by the plan- is this Dan Giese guy any good?  His stats are great but he’s 30 year old- are we hoping for a reliever version of Aaron Small?  I would have liked to wait for Hughes to come back (when is Frangle Phil coming back?) and piggy back start them for a while.

I don’t think the Yanks have been inconsistent as they were last season. They have been outscored this season. Our pyth record this season is worse than our actual record. This team has sucked real hard through the first third of the season, but there still long way to go and the team will be better with Joba in the rotation and with Posada in the lineup.

Yes, the Yankees suck, but they’ll be better going forward.

Even on July 1st last year, the Yankees were in the same place. It sucks that they’ve gotten off to a miserable start 3 out of the past 4 years, but oh well. They have a much better chance this yea than they did last year at this time, let’s just put it like that.

Who does Chris Britton have to eat to get some friggin innings?

And there are games you’ve already lost with Joba sitting on his thumbs in the bullpen.  Your point?

My point: Joba was the second best arm in the bullpen.  And yes, he’s better served in the rotation.  However, you are going to lose games when you drop off from Joba to Farns/Hawkings/Edwar, etc.

What’s your point?

Making/letting those three pitch through injuries was a big reason that it didn’t work out too well.  So I’d say the organization deserves credit not just for stockpiling young arms, but for being careful with them as well.

Maybe, but stats say most prospects fail.  It’s ridiculous to buy into the hype of every Yankee propsect.  Those Yankee prospects are no different than prospects for other teams.  And yes, monitoring their pitch counts and injuries will help, but that won’t help if they simply can’t pitch in the majors.

FYI - injuries weren’t the only problem for the Mets trifecta.  Wilson never put it together, even when healthy.  Pulsipher suffered from mental health problems.

And I hate to say it, but stats are against Joba/Hughes/IPK all living up to their expectations.  If Joba turns out as expected and Hughes/IPK fail, I’ll still be happy.

is this Dan Giese guy any good?

I’m sure you’ll hear when he pitches today, that he recently learned a cutter

No, I don’t think he’s particularly good, and I don’t think the Yankees are planning on him being up more than a couple of weeks.  After 2-3 starts Joba will probably be up to a 100 pitch limit, and they won’t need a long reliever (as much).

Who does Chris Britton have to eat to get some friggin innings

He pitched two days ago, and hopefully he’ll pitch again today.  I think there’s an excellent chance that if Chamberlain gets through 5 innings, Britton will pitch instead of Giese.

but you lose less games leading going into the 7th/8th than you do losing going into the 7th and 8th.

And I hate to say it, but stats are against Joba/Hughes/IPK all living up to their expectations.  If Joba turns out as expected and Hughes/IPK fail, I’ll still be happy

Based on what we’ve seen so far, I’d say…

best-case: Joba and Hughes are 1/1A starters, and Kennedy is a #3, giving the Yankees for at least 3-4 years the best rotation in baseball (along with Wang).

worst-case: Joba can’t hack it as a starter, but follows Mo as a closer.  May not be a HOF’er like Mo, but still will be one of the better relievers in the league.  Hughes struggles with injuries/consistency and has a career-path similar to Mark Prior’s; rarely throws 100+ innings, flashes of brilliance when he plays.  Kennedy ends up as a “journeyman” middle-reliever bouncing around for 5-8 years, sometimes in the minors before calling it a career.

Of course there is a case below that, where all of them are washed up due to injuries by next week, but that’s always the worst case for anyone.  We’ll likely get somewhere in between those two cases of course, which would be fine.

Yes, the Yankees suck.  In a way, though, it has been by design, with a particular focus on the future.  The organization stuck hard to having Hughes and Kennedy in the rotation for a very long time, and the team did terribly especially during their starts.  The FO conspicuously avoided major FA signings during the off-season and stockpiled picks.  Like it or not, this year was set to be a transition year that might have (and may yet still) see the Yanks contend for a postseason spot, should the team him well.  The kid pitchers need to cut their teeth at the major league level, and as often as not, it isn’t going to be pretty while they learn to make adjustments.  None of this I mind.  What I do mind is poor use of existing assets.  What is it going to take for Girardi to recognize Farnsworth for the choker he is?  Farnsworth simply has no business pitching in late and close situations, especially when Girardi has so many other options available to him.  Britton’s usage has been criminal, and Edwar apparently needs to strike out the side on 8 pitches in order to be considered for the role of primary setup man.  Who last night wouldn’t have loved for Britton in the 7th, Edwar in the 8th, and if they held the lead, Rivera in the 9th?  Girardi is already proving himself to have unfoundedly excessive faith in his veterans, and that is troubling indeed.  All I can say is thank bloody goodness for Mariano Rivera.  When it sucks to be inside your Yankee obsessed brain, just think about Mo, and things will be a little bit brighter.

I agree with SG - this team spent far too much money to win this many games.  From a purely financial standpoint, they suck.  If 200 million is the going rate for a .500 team, then I guess they don’t suck.

Well, going around the league, the average payroll for teams at .500 and around ranges from the mid-60s (Baltimore, Texas) to well over 100 million (the Dodgers and Mets). So the Yankees are a bit high.

On the other hand, from the “A nickel aint worth a dime anymore” file, of the top ten teams in payroll, only half (Boston, both Chicago clubs, the Angels and Braves) are .500 or better.

Cash should deal with Girardi’s overuse of Farnsworth the same way he dealt with Torre’s overuse of Proctor: get him off the roster.

What the fuck was Jeter doing on that ground ball up the middle.  Pettitte should have been out of the inning.  Abreu could have made that play on Youngs double, but that was a tough play.  Jeter just has to get his ass to the bag.  Cano made a great fucking play, getting to the ball on the SS side of the bag.

Girardi is already proving himself to have unfoundedly excessive faith in his veterans, and that is troubling indeed.

About a month ago, a number of people - and I have no idea if you were one of them - were talking about dumping Giambi because he was clearly done.  And how Girardi needs to just realize that Jason can’t do it anymore and bench him.  Obviously in hind-sight, Girardi did the right thing by sticking with Giambi, because he felt that Giambi was playing better than the numbers.

Actually, the same thing happened with Mussina as well.  After the second Boston outing, many people were calling for Girardi to skip Moose in the rotation.  Again, Girardi stuck with him, and that has worked out quite well.

So…I’m still going to give Girardi some more rope.  He came into the season saying, “everyone has a clean slate”.  Given that is his mantra, I don’t mind if he gives The Farns a few more chances.  You may have notices as well that Hawkins hasn’t pitched in a while, and Edwar and Britton recently pitched in a tight-game where, “the proven veteran” could have pitched.  Also, you could argue that some of Britton’s innings have gone to Veras or Ohlendorf; not exactly veteran players.

It’s early yet; the book on Girardi is only starting to be written.

Jeter just has to get his ass to the bag.  Cano made a great fucking play, getting to the ball on the SS side of the bag.

Yep, because having the ball thrown behind you while going to the bag is something t-ballers can do.  I’ll admit that Jeter *could* have made that play.  But I don’t know if he *should* have.  Yes, Cano made a great play getting to that ball, and it was a tough throw, but it still wasn’t a good one.

Oh, and there’s no way they would have made the double-play on that, and no more runs scored after that play in the inning.  Pettitte still would have faced Mauer later.

Jeter could have been standing on the bag.  Hedidn’t think Cano was getting there, and was clearly surprised when he was.  It was unJeter like play. 

Yes, Cano made a great play getting to that ball, and it was a tough throw, but it still wasn’t a good one.

He had it in his glove.

Oh, and there’s no way they would have made the double-play on that, and no more runs scored after that play in the inning

with 2 outs and a runner on first, BA is probably playing a few steps deeper in right, which does mean 0 runners score in that inning.

What’s your point?

That it’s a trade-off, and that it’s already gotten way past tiresome to keep hearing about the games they have lost/will lose without Chamberlain in the bullpen, with nary a mention of the games they have lost/will lose without Chamberlain in the rotation.

is this Dan Giese guy any good?

He’s only there in case Chamberlain uses up his 70 pitches in three innings or less, so with luck we won’t even find out.

And just to further the point, how exactly does Chamberlain in the eighth inning last night guarantee you a win?  The best he could have done was hold a tie for a couple of innings.  Even if you then use Rivera for a couple more, you still eventually wind up with Farnsworth or worse in the game unless you score some more runs.

The offense squanders multiple opportunities to blow the game open and the starter coughs up multiple leads, but the difference in the game is not having the proven 8th inning guy?  Sure.

Jeter should have made that play, and if it had been Cano who mishandled that toss instead of Jeter, Kay and many of the beatwriters would have killed him for it.

I think the Yanks are actually in a good spot considering the injuries to ARod and Posada and the complete lack of production from IPK and Hughes.  The problem is that I don’t think the Yankees have the “best team on paper” this year as they seemed to have each of the last 10 years or so, which makes it unlikley that they will be able to put together a second half run like the one they put together last year.

I think it’s been at least five years since the Yankees had “the best team on paper.”

...Mike K, it’s a good point…I’m glad to say I was not of the DFA Giambi school of thought.  His OBP and ISO relative to his BA were too good, I thought, to dismiss him for his early struggles.  The key difference, though, I would say is his history.  If he hadn’t had a track record of mashing (some people misremember just how good a healthy Giambi has been for the Yanks) I might have felt differently.  Farnsworth, though, does not have anything close to the pedigree that Giambi has.  And Pettitte clearly did not have his good stuff last night, which should clearly influence how he is further deployed on a given night.  I’d say the comparison I’m making then is a bit different.  I’m speaking more to Girardi’s specific in-game decisions that led him to trust his veterans seemingly for the sake of their “experience” in a late-and-close game situation.  Girardi had a mix of Veras, Edwar, Patterson, Britton, and others all available in the 7th and 8th innings (the last three all with significantly better recent performance), and Girardi left his trusted veterans out there to bleed away the lead.  Too long a hook on guys that were questionably in there to begin with just doesn’t bode well in my book.

with 2 outs and a runner on first, BA is probably playing a few steps deeper in right, which does mean 0 runners score in that inning.

You’re right, faulty memory.  I had thought the tying run scored on that play, but it was the play after that.  It’s impossible to say for sure what would have happened afterwards.

I think it’s been at least five years since the Yankees had “the best team on paper.”

Not according to Pecota.

The offense squanders multiple opportunities to blow the game open and the starter coughs up multiple leads, but the difference in the game is not having the proven 8th inning guy?  Sure.

Dude.  For the 100th time, I agree with you.  Joba is best served in the rotation.  I just pointed out that games like last night will happen when you don’t have your best arm in the bullpen.  Like it or not, the bullpen takes a blow when you remove Joba. 

Will it be in the best interest in the future?  Sure, spreadsheets say yes, but this game is played on a field, not a PC.  I sure hope Joba can transition to the rotation and can adjust to hitters who now see him two to four times a game and not just one.  But I think he’ll do well.

The bullpen?  Not so much.

The problem with taking Joba out is you don’t have your best arm waiting for the high-leverage situations.  Like you pointed out, Pettitte didn’t pitch too well.  But that doesn’t get the ink because the leverage is low.  Now, they are depending on washed up arms like Farns or Hawkins or youngsters who don’t have the talent of Joba (Edwar, Ohlendorf, etc.).

And you’re right, this team hasn’t been the best on paper in years.  And it won’t be until they get rid of players past their prime.

Not according to Pecota.

Too bad Pecota games don’t count.

I’m speaking more to Girardi’s specific in-game decisions that led him to trust his veterans seemingly for the sake of their “experience” in a late-and-close game situation.

I think with the bullpen being taxed recently, he was hoping to get one more inning from Pettitte before turning it over to the pen.  Obviously it backfired, but outside of one bad pitch to Mauer, and Girardi would have been praised for *not* going to the pen too early. 

As for Farnsworth…I’m not sure what the difference is for using Farnsworth in the 8th as opposed to keep playing Giambi.  He said Giambi’s role was an every-day starter, and he felt Giambi was playing better than the numbers (i.e. bad luck).  So now he’s thinking Farnsworth is his 8th inning guy, who he thinks is pitching better than the numbers.  As for history…again, he said everyone has a clean-slate.  We like hearing that about players we don’t think were given a fair-chance, but hate it for players we think should go.  If Farnsworth is still pitching this way in June and Girardi is running him out there in the 8th, I’ll complain.

Well of course they don’t count they are projections but the comment was in response to the claim that the Yankees did not have the best team on paper this year, which they did, just not by as large a margin as it has been.

At the risk of sounding like a sportswriter, baseball would be pretty boring is all it was was Pecota sims.

me type good: was just pecota sims

The Yankees are meh.

It’s the defense that pisses me off more than anything.  They kicked the ball around the infield last night and it cost them the game (well, that and AP not being terribly good, and Farnsworthless being himself).

Posada will be back soon.  Joba to the rotation should help some. 

But yeah, it’s entirely possible this is an 85-win team.  That would be annoying, but I’m still down with the plan.

Regarding trading Hughes:  A player on the DL cannot be traded.  He can end up being a “player to be named later,” when he comes off the DL, but PsTBNL must be in a different league than the receiving team.  So if the trade was with an AL team, he’d have to be sent down to the minors first—not a big deal as he still has options.

But I’m not sure any team would trade A talent for someone who’s pitched horribly this year and is now hurt.

I’d bet a lot of teams would love to trade for Hughes. But there wouldn’t be much of a return for him right now.

...the comment was in response to the claim that the Yankees did not have the best team on paper this year, which they did…

1) The comment was in response to a response to the claim that the Yankees had the best team on paper every year for the past decade.  Not exactly the same thing.

2) I didn’t realize that PECOTA was the last word on paper.

3) Doesn’t PECOTA consistently over-project young players in general, and young pitchers in particular?

Besides, aren’t we all forgetting that the Tigers had the best team on paper this year, closely followed by the Mariners?

And I hope everyone realizes that [85] was supposed to include the smiley of your choice.

Tigers had the best team <strike>on paper this year</strike> in the history of everything, ever

Fixed that for you.

Why sell low now. I rather keep Hughes and wait to see if he becomes a reliable starter

2) I didn’t realize that PECOTA was the last word on paper.

It’s not but SG’s combination of the 6 projection systems had the Yankees as the second best team in baseball by .1 games to the Mets. (95.1 to 95.2 the Red Sox were a clear #3 at 92.2). So, perhaps not the best team on paper, but certainly the second best.

Then they proceeded to play rather weak ball for 2+ months.

Either way, I remember going into the season thinking the Yankees were the best team, but by a much slimmer margin than in the past.

the answer is two-fold:

YES.  the Yankees suck.

BUT.  so does everyone else is in the AL.  except maybe the Rays and the Angels and Boston, but not Ortiz is hurt.

Ortiz is out for a month, i wouldn’t be surprised to see the Yankees neck and neck with Boston in 6 weeks.  the Tigers suck.  the Indians suck.  the A’s?  Texas?  Chicago?  all flawed.  Toronto?

the AL is a total mess.  there is no reason the Yankees can’t float to the top of said mess, at least as the WC.

last night was excruciating, but if it taught Girardi something about Farnsworth, then it may be worth the loss.  the game was not lost by Farnsworth or Girardi or Jeter or Abreu.  it was lost by Pettitte. 

if you score 5 runs and you have your #2 starter going against a mediocre offense, you need to win that game.  every single inning the Yankees scored, he allowed runs in the bottom half of the frame.  that’s unacceptable.

if your starter can’t put up a single zero when you give him a lead, you can’t expect to win.

The Tigers we’re so good they couldn’t be confined to paper. Which is why they didn’t do so well on all the projection systems. Their sheer awesomeness blew out too much circuitry so the programmers just made up numbers.

you might say they were paper tigers?

i’ll be here all week.

farnsworth should definately not be traded. he should be reduced to pitching in low leverage situations where he can get his shit together and qualify as a type b FA. same thing for the hawk. i think that was cash’s plan all along, sign him to a 1 year deal get close to league average production then garner an all important compensation pick upon his departure

They’re profoundly mediocre. And worse than that, for my lack of money, they can be exceedingly dull to watch for long stretches of games. But hey, you can be an 83-win team in this era and make the playoffs and win the World Series. It’s a bit like rooting for Con Ed though.

[94] Nice.  We’ve gone from US Steel to Con Ed.

Re 54-the Yankees are less inconsistent then they were last year, they
are simply playing worse.  Last year we totally underperformed our pythag but showed flashes blowing a lot of games that should have been wins. This year, relatively speaking, we flat out suck.  Petitte and Wang have been mediocre recently.  Hughes and IPK were disappointments.  Farnsie with his near 2 WHIP and high HR allowed rate. should not have been and must not remain the setup guy.  Let’s give Edwar a shot and keep on eye on Cox and Melancon.  Should we worry about Cox’s low strikeout rate at Scranton??  We’ve been inconsistent hitting with RISP and Cano has been a disaster this year seeing 2.75 pitches per AB since 5/25 and swinging at pitches he has no shot of driving.

Hawkins did not make the type B cut last year (wasn’t even close), and is not likely to move up in the rankings.  Farnsworth was a solid B last year, and has a decent shot to remain so.  This may not make a lot of sense based on glancing at their BB-ref pages, but the Elias rankings are kinda funky.

I got a question: how good does Joba have to pitch to end the return-to-8th-inning-role discussion?

Not just today’s game, but let’s say 5 game span?  or through the rest of the year (till the Yankees get crowned World Series champ)? 

Or, in the big question sense, is a number 3 or 4 starter more valuable than a great set up guy?

I’m sure it depends on the situation, but for me, I can go with a reliable starter and have whatever combination of guys in the “8th inning” spot, excluding Farnsworth.  Heck, even including Farnsworth, if the offense and the rotation were more consistent.

I got a question: how good does Joba have to pitch to end the return-to-8th-inning-role discussion?

For us or for the MSM?  Cuz I suspect that the MSM isn’t likely to be satisfied with anything short of Santana-in-his-prime-esque domination.  And even then, a blown game here and there will lead to another round of “Joba to the pen!!!111!!1” hysterics.

Should we worry about Cox’s low strikeout rate at Scranton??

i thought Cox was always a ground ball pitcher, and that was why people were always skeptical that he’d be “Mariano’s heir”?  do we know his GB/FB rate?

Petitte and Wang have been mediocre recently.

this is my biggest concern.