Well, take that Pythagorean Winning Percentage!

Seriously, must they get blown out when they lose? -17, that is not a winning run differential.

Is the video of that home run online somewhere? I was at the game, so of course I had no idea what was going on until the umpires came back out and announced the call. They never showed the replay on the giant screen, and I can’t seem to find it anywhere to see what actually happened.

They never showed the replay on the giant screen,

It’s good to know that, despite the new stadium, important Yankee traditions are being upheld.

Ken: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290419110

How’d you like the new stadium?

Don’t know why, but the video isn’t working properly. Just shows me an endless loop of the guy talking, no actual game clips. I’ll try again tomorrow.

I actually quite liked the new stadium. We were sitting in the upper most level, along the third base line. It’s a little farther from the field than comparable seats in the old stadium, but it’s not that big a difference, and the wider seats and aisles are noticeably more comfortable. I found it to be quite delightful to just walk around the concourses on all levels and admire the field. Practically the entire stadium is open air, and you have full view of the field field from anywhere on the concourse on any level. They pretty much met my two requirements for a successful replacement by keeping the in-seat experience very close to the original, and vastly improving maneuverability within the stadium itself, especially when it was time to leave at the end. Yes, there are a few issues that should be addressed, the obstructed view bleachers in particular are an embarrassment (it’s at least as bad as you’ve heard), and monument park needs to be moved to a location that allows some light, but overall I’m happy. I think it’ll feel just as much like home once they put in a few winning seasons (and hopefully post seasons) there.

I hope Molino didn’t get upset because he got lifted in the game.

Well, take that Pythagorean Winning Percentage!

Exactly. I think the Yankees have, (mostly) courtesy of Wang, played themselves to a point where their Pythagorean record says they should be worse but IMO they are actually better than their record.

Well, take that Pythagorean Winning Percentage!

Exactly. I think the Yankees have, (mostly) courtesy of Wang, played themselves to a point where their Pythagorean record says they should be worse but IMO they are actually better than their record.

Given the offensive potential this team has, particularly when Alex returns, I’m sure we’ll see a gradual correction over the next few months.  As long as they don’t run Wang out there every 5 days before he’s figured out his problem, that is.

Given the offensive potential this team has, particularly when Alex returns, I’m sure we’ll see a gradual correction over the next few months.

From A-rod to Ransom, that’s going to be at least a .500 difference in OPS out of third base. I can’t wait until Ransom is banished.

They never showed the replay on the giant screen, and I can’t seem to find it anywhere to see what actually happened.

I am pretty sure that it is an MLB rule that they do not show controversial or close calls on the big screen at the stadiums. I think it is basically to make sure that the fans don’t go berserk and start throwing stuff if a bad call goes against the home team. I know that had been the rule for a long time, so I assume it still is. Of course, now that there is video replay for home runs you would think that maybe that rule wouldn’t any longer apply for homers, but it probably still does. With that particular call though, it is really hard to tell what happened, even with all the replays. I can’t imagine that you would call fan interference on a play like that, though, because it would have been a really difficult catch no matter what and if a fan reached out it was by an inch or two, literally. 

Anyone been to both the new stadiums? I haven’t been to Yankee Stadium yet this year, but a friend who works for the Mets gave me tickets so I went on Saturday. I have to say, Citi Field is really beautiful. I loved it,  despite my hatred for the Mets. It’s just a really pleasant place to watch a game and I love that you can walk all around the stadium, hang out next to the bullpens and heckle the opposing pitchers as they warm up (or, if you are a Yankee fan, heckle the Mets pitchers), and just hang out down right behind the field level seats and watch the whole game dow there if you don’t mind standing.  I am really curious to see how Yankee Stadium compares.

I can’t wait until Ransom is banished.

Yeah, when he even screwed up the bunt that was just too much. There is really nothing to like about him as a player, lucky bloop double aside. 

They would be better off DH’ing for him and letting Sabathia hit. I am almost serious.

You can only DH for the pitcher.

There is really nothing to like about him as a player, lucky bloop double aside.

I was pretty annoyed that he didn’t hustle down the line when he hit that ball, he probably gets to third if he hustles the whole way. I was actually really pissed at first, but it seems he was noticeably upset that he hadn’t busted it down the line in the first place when he was standing on second, so I’m not really angry at him for that anymore. I wonder if Joe will bench him tomorrow for that, seems to be Girardi’s style.

You can only DH for the pitcher.

When I looked that up during the off-season, I was sort of surprised. What’s the point in constraining it?

So, is the NYS going to have a decent crowd after this first series?  Because it was very, very lame to be watching on TV and be able to individually hear each of the four people cheering when Burnett got to 2 strikes on a hitter.

I wonder if Joe will bench him tomorrow for that, seems to be Girardi’s style.

Kind of funny that it would take not hustling for him to get benched.

Does anyone have a picture of the obstructed view?

Also, the empty seats on the first sunday ever at the new stadium are an embarassment

I am pretty sure that it is an MLB rule that they do not show controversial or close calls on the big screen at the stadiums. I know that had been the rule for a long time, so I assume it still is.

This is news to me.  Do you know where I can read about it?  Very curious.

Kind of funny that it would take not hustling for him to get benched.

As others have said, what are the options?  Girardi *did* start Pena there too, but it’s not like he is a huge upgrade.  Others have wanted Russo or Berroa called up, but then you need to make a move on the 40 man roster.  It may *seem* a no-brainer to DFA Ransom, but for the next couple of weeks until ARod comes back it may make sense to keep Ransom, and then potentially DFA him if he’s still playing this bad.

Sometimes it seems like people treat this like a video game, like you just make the moves you want and don’t worry about it.  It *is* a little more complicated than that.  Also, with all the angst about how the Yankees could have even thought of opening the season with Ransom on the roster, he *did* put up an OPS+ of 170 last year (in a larger sample than so far this year), and a 107 in similar amount of time with Houston the year before.  He’s also had an OPS over .800 each of the last 3 years in AAA.  Sure sounds like a UIF to me…

Okay, normally I wouldn’t do this to everyone, but here is a Lombardi article worth reading.  It discusses HR and the new Yankee Stadium, and is mostly long answers by Greg Rybarczyk (the guy who runs Hit Tracker) to two questions posed by Lombardi.

Speaking of not running things out, did you notice Jorge when he hit that HR (or whatever it was)?  Way worse than Ransom.

Attended yesterday’s game at NYS and I must say I liked it better than I thought I would.  Like most people I spent a lot of the game walking around and the views of the field are amazing from all parts of the park.  the things I didn’t like:

-too big- they should sell about 10K standing room only tickets every game to fill up the place. 

-The food was good but could have been much better.  Why do they need multiple Garlic Fries stands?  And Johnny Rockets has to go.  Needs more sauasage and cheesesteak stands.  And more Arthur Ave. stuff and pizza.  And Hard Rock Cafe is lame- improve the eating/drinking establishments.

-I don’t like the padded seats- they are going to be way too hot and sticky in the summer. Also, they don’t make as much noise when people bang on them when Mo comes in. 

-Please put the empty seats up for auction- I don’t care if it will piss off the guys who paid full price- it was their error and all of the prices will correct downward next year.  Give them free beers and dogs for every game to compensate.

-I think the crowd is more tame because of 3 factors: (1)people still don’t feel like they’re at Yankee Stadium so I think they are acting more passive; (2)people walking around and exploring during the game means they are not in their seats; and (3)a different mix of fans than you normally get.  Once the novelty wares off all three factors should reverse.  But the place is still a lot louder than it sounds on TV- I think the crowd noise we hear on TV likely comes from the field level right below the braodcast booth which is the lamest section in The Stadium. 

Overall great job but do a better job filling the place up and decorating it with photos, ads and such.

I don’t get the “embarrassment” over the obstructed-view bleacher seats.  Would it be less embarrassing if there were no seats there at all? 

Ditto for the empty seats in the premium area(s).  This is nothing new.  Go to any sports arena in America and you’ll find most of the luxury boxes and similar “corporate” club areas at 1/4 capacity.  Why should average fans, who have no say in any of this, feel personally embarrassed?

People take some things way too personally.

It’s just a really pleasant place to watch a game and I love that you can walk all around the stadium, hang out next to the bullpens and heckle the opposing pitchers as they warm up (or, if you are a Yankee fan, heckle the Mets pitchers), and just hang out down right behind the field level seats and watch the whole game dow there if you don’t mind standing.  I am really curious to see how Yankee Stadium compares.

NYS is set up similarly.

it is actually, IMO, the #1 reason the stadium appears “empty”.  it’s not. people were exploring.

it didn’t help that the game i went to was over in the 2nd inning, but that was what was going on.  i am a person who almost never leaves their seat, but i spent a good 3 innings walking around the entire stadium.  the line for the sports bar in CF was a few hundred deep.

aside from the top top seats, the place was full.  but people were just walking around and watching the “game” from the concourses.  down by the foul poles, the view is pretty awesome just standing around.

the stadium is absolutely beautiful.  we’ll have to see how it plays all summer and what they can do about it if it’s too homer prone.  Cashman said knocking down the old stadium may change the wind pattern bit.

Well, take that Pythagorean Winning Percentage!

Exactly. I think the Yankees have, (mostly) courtesy of Wang, played themselves to a point where their Pythagorean record says they should be worse but IMO they are actually better than their record.

In general, Pythag is useless at forecasting roster changes.  I’m inclined to let that slide with regard to Alex, since a certain amount of movement into and out of the DL is normal.  On the other hand, it’s worse than useless when dealing with below replacement level performance.  We don’t need to know Phil Hughes’s name to recognize that the Yankees have a pitcher who can manage an ERA better than 34.50.  Either Wang will improve, or someone else will get that rotation slot.  Either way, an ERA of 6 is a much better prediction going forward than an ERA of 34.5 (the fact that both Wang and Hughes project to be better than an ERA of 6 is probably beyond what we can expect from a modified Pythag).

I’m not sure how to best adjust Pythag for below replacement level performance.  Wang’s pitching is already 18.5 runs below replacement in 3 starts.  That’s enough runs to meaningfully distort the Pythag even a month from now, so it’s probably worth looking for a way to adjust for below replacement level pitching.  On the other hand, it might not be worth adjusting for below replacement level position players since it’s difficult for a position player to be enough below replacement to project to a meaningful number of wins in the time necessary for a team to realize that he needs to be replaced.  For example, it would take Cody Random another 51 games to get to Wang’s -18.5 at his rate. 

Even after he racked up 18.5 runs below replacement, I’m still more worried that the team will overreact and do something which clobbers Wang’s confidence than I am that they will underreact and lose too many games that he starts.  How much are we supposed to adjust our projections (which were fairly positive at the start of the season) after seeing him pitch batting practice three games in a row?

Ransom had an excellent game defensively yesterday. 

it was, at least, a glimpse of why they thought he could be the UIFer.

“How much are we supposed to adjust our projections (which were fairly positive at the start of the season) after seeing him pitch batting practice three games in a row? “

I believe I read that Wang has authored the WORST three consecutive starts in MLB history.  That’s a little beyond just bad.  I think he needs to be DL’d and get some rehab starts in the minors.

I’m sure Wang’s pride is injured. Can they put him on the DL for that?

I concur.

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I can’t be too hard to have the team doctor “see something” on a MRI he “doesn’t like” and shut down Wang for 14 days.  He can then get 3 or 4 rehab starts.

You CAN NOT send Wang out there in Fenway under any circumstances.  Skip his spot, bring up Hughes or Kennedy.  Anything else.

Wang has to at least throw a couple of good relief innings in a laugher/blowout before he starts again.

aside from a weather related schedule change this week, i don’t think there is any chance they send Wang out there in Fenway.

Too bad they can’t hire Pavano as a consultant…He’d find a way to get Wang DL’d.

I don’t care if Cashman has to kick him in the balls, he needs to be DL’d.

I’m not sure how to best adjust Pythag for below replacement level performance.

Probably cap run differential at +/- 7 or so for a game.  After that, the result really isn’t in doubt.

I am pretty sure that it is an MLB rule that they do not show controversial or close calls on the big screen at the stadiums.

I believe there is no official rule on the books; it is an unwritten rule that stadiums not show controversial/close calls on the big screen.

here is the way i see it with Wang:  he gets skipped next time out.

that gives him 9 days to work on things.

he’ll make his next start after that(they will call up someone like Aceves to wait in the bullpen).  if he has another disastrous start, they will send him to the DL with something.

if he is merely “bad”, meaning 6 innings, 6 runs, or something, they will allow him to try to work it out in the bigs.

there is a very delicate balance here, this isn’t Matt DeSalvo or someone else they can just get rid of.  they need to get him right.

DL Wang is not the answer in my opinion, especially since the team has clearly gone on record as saying there is nothing wrong with him.

Here’s what I think is the best course of action:
1) Keep working with him on the side.
2) If the Yanks take 2 or 3 from the Oakland series, start him against Boston.
3) If the Yanks lose 2 or 3 to Oakland, skip his start.

I suspect that Wang has a mild form of Knoblauch/Ankiel syndrome, if it’s true that his mechanics are fine when he pitches between starts, but falls apart the minute some game time adversity sets in. The only way to get him right then, is to make him prove it to himself in a game.

The big thing that worries me is that Girardi said they watched video and there were things to be fixed, meanwhile, Wang said he watched the same video and saw nothing at all wrong.

I just don’t think what’s Wrong with Wang can be fixed in bullpen sessions, or minor leage starts. Maybe relief appearances will do the trick, I don’t know.

even if the Yankees sweep Oakland, i don’t think you can send him out in Fenway.

the Sox hit GOOD Wang pretty hard.

In general, Pythag is useless at forecasting roster changes.

In general, Pythag is useless at looking at partial seasons.  It’s too easy for the numbers to get out of whack early on with a few big games other way.  I think one of the points of Pythag is that over time, a teams won/loss pct will approach thier Pythag pct.  A (baker’s) dozen games isn’t enough time.

that gives him 9 days to work on things.

And it probably wouldn’t be bad if he got a game out of the bullpen - potentially that day - to let him try out his changes in a game, and get some confidence back.  Hopefully there is a blowout (with Yanks on top of course) that he can get into.  As you say, this is a pitcher they need, even if it is just to get his trade value back for the future.

The big thing that worries me is that Girardi said they watched video and there were things to be fixed, meanwhile, Wang said he watched the same video and saw nothing at all wrong.

Right, but that’s why I go for golf-lessons.  I may think there is nothing wrong with my swing but the results aren’t there.  A pro can point out the things I’m doing wrong, which sometimes are very subtle.  I don’t think it is a concern as long as Eiland has the ability to MAKE Wang see what is wrong, and convince him that it needs to be fixed.

I suspect that Wang has a mild form of Knoblauch/Ankiel syndrome

So Wang is going to move to the outfield?

Pythag serves an approximation for what a full season’s winning percentage should be.  This was studied by taking a lot (read too lazy to look up the exact number of seasons) of data and analyzing the correlation between RS and RA in terms of ending win/loss totals.  Certain teams will greatly out/under perform their pythag records…games started by Wang will certainly be one of these reasons.

Wang pitched a complete game 1 hitter vs. the Red Sox in Fenway last year.  That’s not to say his start shouldn’t be skipped, it most certainly should, but when Wang is right he can beat any team in any venue.

And it probably wouldn’t be bad if he got a game out of the bullpen - potentially that day - to let him try out his changes in a game, and get some confidence back.  Hopefully there is a blowout (with Yanks on top of course) that he can get into.  As you say, this is a pitcher they need, even if it is just to get his trade value back for the future.

I agree.  A skipped start with a relief appearance or two is a much better option than DL.

Yes, of course, luxury suites will often be at below capacity. The problem is the Yankees put the fucking luxury suites style seats behind home plate and down the lines behind the dugout, meaning every game on TV looks like a marlins game.

Fucking embarrassment, and I’m glad. Lonn Trost and Randy Levine can suck a fat one. I advise everyone to get a video of the 1995 ALDS vs. the Mariners to see what a real goddamned Yankee crowd looks and sounds like in a real baseball stadium.

Also, there is an interesting clip from ESPN where Dan Plesac and Mitch Williams (of all people) break down video from Wang in 2008 and 2009 and his mechanics are clearly different.  Specifically, he’s not bringing the knee up as high in 2009 and he is tilting forward rather than standing straight before his delivery.

He’s obviously not right and probably distressed with his performance also. Just tossing him back on the mound and hoping for the best would be embarrasing to him, the team and further tax our bullpen.
Any more of this and he’ll become a headcase.

WeeklyJournalist is 100% correct.  I don’t understand what the economic argument is for making $0 when you could make >$0 on the seats.  Really I don’t understand why they don’t do the whole freaking stadium as an auction before the season so that they don’t have to try to guess market value.  I doubt Lonn Trost or Randy Levine attended many Yankee games outside of a luxury box or even rooted for the team before they started working for the team.  They should understand how it hurts the brand to have The Stadium look and sound like JoeRobbie or whatever the Marlins park is called.  Of course they also should have understood that they were bidding against themsleves for ARod, that he used steroids, and that he hurts the brand even while helping the team onthe field immensely.  They are incompetants.  Luckily I have faith in Hal for some reason.

he’s not bringing the knee up as high in 2009

There’s a guy on base in the 2009 clip so it may very well be deliberate as a quasi slide-step.

By the way, I find it hilarious that Steve Lombardi is freaking out because the Yanks are 2.5 games out of first place in mid April.  If this man won the lottery, he would obsessively focus on the money he has to pay in taxes.

I can see the leg kick being lower if a man is on base, but he stands up straight during the windup in 2008 and he is clearly leaning forward in 2009.  That’s obvious from the clip and according to Plesac is one reason why his pitches are staying up.

Also, I’m sure the douche bag who shelled out $2K/ticket to sit behind home plate would appreciate some company as he probably feels pretty stupid to be sitting by himself surrounded by empty seats. 

Also, to pump up the atmosphere they should sell standing room only seats.  The place is enourmous and it seems it can easily handle 5-10k more people just roaming the various bars and establishments.  The walk up to the upper deck felt like the Oregon Trail.

You have to ford a river? Or can you just caulk it.

I don’t understand what the economic argument is for making $0 when you could make >$0 on the seats.

the argument is that they don’t want to have to refund the money to the people that DID by those seats.

i’m not defending the pricing there, it’s obviously insane, but there is at least an economic reason why they haven’t cut prices yet.

Of course they also should have understood that they were bidding against themsleves for ARod, that he used steroids, and that he hurts the brand even while helping the team onthe field immensely.

they should have known he used steroids before they signed him?  that makes sense.

he stands up straight during the windup in 2008 and he is clearly leaning forward in 2009

I agree that this is likely a problem.  It would also help explain some of his velocity loss.

I believe they did know.  I know someone who works closely with Reggie and supposedly it’s common knowledge that ARod was juicing since Seattle.  That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t sign him- it just means you shouldn’t pay a premium to have the “clean” HR champ breaking Aaron and Bond’s record. 

Also, I don’t think The Yankees are legally obligated to lower the prices for the people who already bought the tickets, although it would be a PR issue for them to deal with.  there are probably many ways for they to assuage those fans.  There is probably an optimal level whereby they can lower the price on purchased tickets while making more than enough back through the sale of empty seats.

they should have known he used steroids before they signed him?

And he’s only hurting the brand if/until they win a World Series with him.  People forgive a lot when you are a winner.

By the way, I find it hilarious that Steve Lombardi is freaking out because the Yanks are 2.5 games out of first place in mid April.

Through 13 games last year, they were 6-7 and 1.5 games out.  But they were also in last place then as opposed to 2nd now (in both cases Toronto was/is in first).  The team’s main problem so far has been Wang’s pitching.  One way or another, that will be fixed in the coming weeks (Wang will improve, or Hughes will be called up).  That will also have a ripple-effect on improving the bullpen.  The next major problem has been Ransom, and ARod will be back in a few weeks.

I believe they did know.  I know someone who works closely with Reggie and supposedly it’s common knowledge that ARod was juicing since Seattle.

really?  common knowledge? and it stayed a secret until 2009?

the most scrutinized professional athlete IN THE UNIVERSE, and this was “common knowledge”, but we never heard of it?  that passes the smell test for you?

maybe the Yankees’ inner circle knew, but i really doubt it. it’s just waaaaaaay too much money to commit if they knew this had a chance at getting out. also, it casts a much greater doubt on his future performance.  i can’t see the Yankees giving out that contract knowing his previous stats may have been steroid aided.

Another problem will be José Veras and his inability to throw strikes, which will be solved by Robertson or Melancon.  There is also the issue of Damaso Marte and fact that he is getting crushed, but given his track record he should be fine in time.

let me add, that i don’t doubt the part of your story that he juiced since Seattle.  don’t doubt it at all.

i just have a hard time believing that it was this barely kept secret that everyone knew about.

Also, I don’t think The Yankees are legally obligated to lower the prices for the people who already bought the tickets, although it would be a PR issue for them to deal with.

It would be the same problem that companies like Verizon and DirecTV go through, where they give a great offer to “new” customers, while old ones pay the higher-rate/don’t get the “free” stuff.  Both of those companies have in recent years done more to appease existing customers - for example DirecTV recently gave me a free year of the Showtime package - though sometimes you need to call for it. 

What the Yankees *don’t* want to do is piss-off a season-ticket holder who paid 10K or more for their package.  That person seems to be able to afford/want those seats; maybe if they are pissed next year they won’t buy the ticket and unlike recent years there may not be another person waiting for it.  What I think the Yankees may do is try to get more promotions or other extras.  Everyone benefits then, and they can probably sell enough seats to cover the extra cost.

There is probably an optimal level whereby they can lower the price on purchased tickets while making more than enough back through the sale of empty seats.

yeah, i don’t disagree.  and we may see that happen later in the summer.

and i know we’ll see it next season. 

i think the Yankees blew the PR of the ticket pricing, not the pricing itself (for 95% of the tickets).  by pricing those top seats so ridiculously high, from a PR standpoint, they have generated enough bad press that it has spread the idea that every seat in the NYS is insanely overpriced.  and it’s not true.

i sat in a GREAT seat on Saturday for $45.  main level, up the 3B line.  for $45, this was a better seat than some of the field level seats in the old stadium that went for $90.  you were a little elevated, but still close to the field.  just a great seat, and $45 is not a crazy price for this type of seat.

Earth to Yup: steroids were common knowledge throughout a large part of the baseball establishment.  You really think Selig didn’t know or suspect?  It’s called plausible deniability.  If it’s going on you have to play the game that is not the game that should be which means signing guys you know may be cheating (since all you competitors are).  But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t consider the damage that can do to your brand.  You certainly shouldn’t pay up for having a 3B who everyone including your fans hate. Unless you are that confident that he will somehow do a complete 180 and become a guy people want to root for.  But lets get off the ARod topic as its getting old.

Yup: The Stadium is awesome (as it shuld be for $1.3B). But there are certain obvious flaws that fat Randy Levine should address.  Anyone try a Johnny Rockets burger?  $9 for a cold crappy burger- they need to upgrade that for sure.

Another problem will be José Veras and his inability to throw strikes, which will be solved by Robertson or Melancon.

Well Veras had that problem last year, and was effective.  Perhaps scouting reports have gone around that hitters know how to handle him now, but I think Veras for a few years can have similar seasons to last year.  You’ll just have to put up with games that he isn’t getting anyone out, sometimes.  That’s not a guy you want in high-leverage situations, but is still valueable as the 4th-6th guy out of major-league bullpen.  But as you said (wrote?), if he isn’t effective Robertson or Melancon or maybe even Cox will step in.

That would be a good game; start with a solid Wang, followed by some good Cox, and maybe finish it off with some Coke.

i think the Yankees blew the PR of the ticket pricing, not the pricing itself (for 95% of the tickets).  by pricing those top seats so ridiculously high, from a PR standpoint, they have generated enough bad press that it has spread the idea that every seat in the NYS is insanely overpriced.  and it’s not true.

And I think this issue will sort itself out as the season progresses.

This is stating the obvious, but CMW’s early exits just screws up the bullpen, a lot of unnecessary moves, overusing some players, making others unavailable for long stretches of time. I don’t know what the solution. CMW isn’t just bad, but he’s completely lost.

Anyone try a Johnny Rockets burger?

I actually like Johnny Rockets and their burgers.  At the same time as that, I’m always sitting in one getting the food made fresh.  Part of the fun is sticking nickels in the “old time” music machine on your table and waiting for your song to play.  And the feeling of a “throwback” diner.  However, I’m sure your experience had none of these things.  And no, I wouldn’t pay 9$ for one of their burgers even if it was fresh.

I don’t know what the solution.

*A* solution - one that may not be that bad - would be to send Jackson down, and call up Hughes.  Make Wang the long man.  Generally, the long man you just want to get innings, and getting quality innings is a bonus, right?  And with the exception of a starter leaving early, the innings are usually low-leverage.  So now you get Hughes pitching in the majors.  Wang is in some low-leverage situations until he can figure out how to get back to where he was.  Hopefully Wang only needs a few outings to get there.

After that you evaluate where you are.  Maybe there’s an injury and both Wang and Hughes stay in the lineup.  Maybe you send Hughes back down to the minors.  Or maybe you trade Wang; before anyone jumps down my throat, #1 everything would have to work out perfectly (Hughes and Chamberlain pitching well, everyone healthy) #2 what else do the Yankees have that may be able to get several B or an A position-player prospect back?

Earth to Yup: steroids were common knowledge throughout a large part of the baseball establishment.

yes, i know this.

how this relates SPECIFICALLY to A-Rod is the connection i’m not making.

remember the good old days when people would just bitch about how stupid Cashman was for not locking up Wang to a long term deal?

Or maybe you trade Wang; before anyone jumps down my throat, #1 everything would have to work out perfectly (Hughes and Chamberlain pitching well, everyone healthy) #2 what else do the Yankees have that may be able to get several B or an A position-player prospect back?

I won’t jump down your throat, but trading Wang now is selling low.

remember the good old days when people would just bitch about how stupid Cashman was for not locking up Wang to a long term deal?

IMHO, there’s really not a big market for long-term deals.  Or more precisely, there shouldn’t be a big market for long-term deals.  I could see a long-term deal for a true stud, a franchise player.  (And again IMHO, there aren’t that many studs around.)  But other than that, forget it.

Wang had 3 awful starts but the fact that he was only throwing 89-90 MPH means that there is either an injury or a mechanical flaw in his delivery.  Since the best Dr’s can’t find an injury, and Wang says he feels fine, it has to be a mechanical flaw.  So have him work on it until his velocity returns to normal levels.  This guys isn’t

BTW, my brother and I got upper deck seats the first week of may for $5 a pop. not obstructed view, just a midweek special.

Make Wang the long man.  Generally, the long man you just want to get innings, and getting quality innings is a bonus, right?

I suggested that, and I’m all in favor of the Yankees having and using a pitcher go multiple innings out of the pen.

But the fact of the matter is, it’s only when Wang pitches are there blow outs against the Yankees cause he sucks, and the Yankees will hardly ever be in the good end of a blow out since Ransom, Gardner, Melky, Pena, & Molina take up so many at bat. So there would never be a situation for Wang to be used if he was in the bullpen. And I’m kidding.

i used to buy those $5 seats at the old stadium all the time.  can’t beat it.

i’m glad to see they have carried that across the street.

But lets get off the ARod topic as its getting old.

The thing is, there’s this one poster who brings up how much he hates that effeminate fop A-Rod, who needs to grow some sack, or something like that, during every conversation, in every thread.  Can’t remember who it is, though.

Wow, Oakland is throwing three LH starters out there this series.  Would be nice to have either ARod or Nady.

Melancon 9IP 2H 3BB 15K Pretty, pretty, pretty good as Larry David would say

I won’t jump down your throat, but trading Wang now is selling low.

Yeah, I wasn’t clear. This also assumes Wang has returned to form.  E.g. maybe 3 solid outings of 3+ innings each out of the pen, and then maybe they send Hughes down for a few weeks and Wang can put up a few quality starts.  If Wang isn’t able to return to form, you just stick with him in the pen (or find an excuse to DL him) and Hughes in the rotation.

If he’s returned to form, is there really a reason to trade him?

If he’s returned to form, is there really a reason to trade him?

Somewhere above I mentioned it would have to be the perfect combination, which means Hughes is pitching well.  E.g. say it is 4 starts and Hughes pitchs 26 innings with 30 K’s and has a FIP of 3.00.  Are you going to be itching to send him down?  Now everyone else also has to be healthy and pitching well too.  But in that case it is an option to trade Wang if they can get good value back.

Sooner or later they need to figure out what to do with Wang long-term, as FA is only a couple of years away and (hopefully) a young pitcher like Brackman or Betances or others will be pushing the envelope.  If they can fill another need by trading Wang - e.g. get a SS for 2011 - why not solve the problems now?  Of course, everything has to go right, and that hasn’t happened too much in Yankeeland recently.

Sorry if I missed it, but I’ve heard that Wang would have to clear waivers if the Yanks were to send him to AAA.  Why is this?  He didn’t have much minor league service time and hasn’t yet had five years of MLB experience that he could refuse.  As usual, I’m missing something.

It really just doesn’t make sense to use Wang in any sort of high-leverage situation right now.  That said, I’ll be very surprised if Wang is captial “T” toast.  Unless there’s an underlying injury that he’s denying, he has been too consistently successful for too long to have total mechanical amnesia.  I’m skeptical of the mental issue as well, as he’s always been imperturbable.  I suppose anything’s possible, but if indeed there’s nothing wrong with him physically, I fully expect Wang to return to his workhorse 4.00 ERA ways.  But for God’s sake, keep him out of games until he gets his shit together.  Get his work in mop-ups or the minors, most certainly not at Fenway.  I should never have let Mike and MC convince me that it was a good idea to trot him out for his last start. 

I kind of figured the Yanks might bring up S Duncan since he’s hot and Nady is down particularly to help against the A’s leftys.

I have been somewhat disappointed with Swisher’s fielding. He let a ball go off his glove a few games back and he did an Abreu on Saturday by not getting all the way back to the wall. It’s no wonder he was labeled a poor cf.

Did anyone of you feel sick when Veras came in on Saturday?  That scratch hit just seemed to start it rolling.

I’m wondering what structural things might be considred on the new stadium if it averages 3 homers or more a game in its first year?  Are the wrap around billboards and TV screen that much different than in the old park?  Can’t imagine that there will be a lot of people wanting to spend millions to remodel it after the inital price tag was so over budget.

Wang’s first pro season was 2000.  which means he had to be on the 40 man in 2003?

that would make his 3 option years 2003, 2004, and 2005…

Melancon 9IP 2H 3BB 15K Pretty, pretty, pretty good as Larry David would say

None of the Yankee reliever have 9IP. Anyone have any comments on Melancon’s usage? 5 games, going 1.2 - 2 every other day.

Posada’s bat will help a great deal against the lefties, as will Teixeira’s.  Let’s also not forget that Swisher is a switch hitter as well.  Those three plus Jeter gives the team four legit right-handed bats against Oakland’s three southpaws.  Moreover, Molina and Ransom could very well be less futile against the portsiders as well.

The O’s play fine against us and can’t manage one win in four games against the sox?

Wang is out of options and with less then 5 ML years he can’t go down voluntarily.  That said how many more terrible starts should Wang be allowed before he’s exiled to mopup duty?

That said, I’ll be very surprised if Wang is captial “T” toast.  Unless there’s an underlying injury that he’s denying, he has been too consistently successful for too long to have total mechanical amnesia.  I’m skeptical of the mental issue as well, as he’s always been imperturbable.  I suppose anything’s possible, but if indeed there’s nothing wrong with him physically, I fully expect Wang to return to his workhorse 4.00 ERA ways.

That touches on a lot of why Wang’s meltdown is so surprising. He just seemed like he had the mental makeup and the arm (and the type of pitches) to be at least decent for a long time.

Thanks Yup.

Anyone have any comments on Melancon’s usage? 5 games, going 1.2 - 2 every other day.

apparently the Yankees have a rule of using their younger minor league relieving prospects in longer outings. Also, Melancon is generally super efficient, so they may put him back out there to get some more pitches in.

Moreover, Molina and Ransom could very well be less futile against the portsiders as well.

Now you are just reaching. 

I’ll be surprise if they don’t add a bat, I mean, three lefties are three lefties.

Well, in Molina’s case this is pretty well documented.  Against LHP, Molina is a bad hitter.  Against RHP, he’s dreadful.

I don’t know about Ransom, but it would be reasonable to think that he would have a better chance against a lefty.

Melancon is generally super efficient, so they may put him back out there to get some more pitches in.

Yeah, from what I’ve seen they want Melancon to throw about 20-25 pitches per outing which is why he usually throws 2 innings.

As others have said, what are the options?  Girardi *did* start Pena there too, but it’s not like he is a huge upgrade. 

I wasn’t suggesting there were other options.  That was actually part of my point.  Given the lack of other options, not hustling is the one thing that can put Ransom on the bench.

“Anyone have any comments on Melancon’s usage?”

As alluded to above, it’s been taking him 1.2 IP to throw 16 pitches.

IPK so far in two starts:  12 IP, 9 H, 2 BB, 16 K, 0 HR, 2 R.  At Chad Jennings’s blog there’s a quote from Hughes about his curveball coming and going, and the change still being a work in progress - I might be inclined to call up IPK first at this point.

IPK so far in two starts:  12 IP, 9 H, 2 BB, 16 K, 0 HR, 2 R.

The best thing about that line is the two BB.  I think that’s going to be the key to him being useful or not.

I wouldn’t bring Kennedy up unless you can spot him against a poor offensive team though, a couple of good starts in AAA don’t necessarily mean he’s made the adjustments he needs to have long-term success in MLB yet.

I should never have let Mike and MC convince me that it was a good idea to trot him out for his last start.

I was wondering when that would come up.  Notice how MC has been absent all day as well…

That was actually part of my point.

Gotcha.

“a couple of good starts in AAA don’t necessarily mean he’s made the adjustments he needs”

What would?  Also, doesn’t the same point apply to Hughes?

I wouldn’t bring Kennedy up unless you can spot him against a poor offensive team though, a couple of good starts in AAA don’t necessarily mean he’s made the adjustments he needs to have long-term success in MLB yet.

Unfortunately, that is true of Hughes as well, no?  Though less so, because Hughes I think with two pitches working (FB and cutter) can get through 6 innings, while Kennedy probably needs three.