Still really don’t get this one…but he might make a nice spot stater at 2b against lefties, and maybe Jeter might need some rest.

Nice move, if only we had somewhere to play him.

Even if it doesn’t make immediate sense, the Yankees got the best player in the deal, so I’m pretty pleased with it.

I don’t really get this one either. Betemit has struck out in a third of his at-bats this season. That’s not good. I still thought Proctor was plenty valuable to this team.

This certainly means Joba is coming up soon.  BUT, what bothers me is that Farnsworth might not be going anywhere, which is insane.
And now that Torre doesn’t have his whipping boy, who takes the brunt?  Better not be Joba.

Also, he’s a great bench player.

Vizcaino is going to be the everyday donkey, I imagine.

“I still thought Proctor was plenty valuable to this team.”

The Yanks have three righthanded guys (Edwar, Britton and Jaba) in the minors who can be as good as Proctor and might be better. Betemit is a 25 year old utility guy who can hit and field. This makes the bench a billion times better, it makes the roster way more flexible, and it gives them leverage in the A-rod talks. This is a sweet, sweet move by Cash.

call me crazy but this move makes little to no sense. Sure betemit is young, but if he is to replace a-rod next year we are in serious trouble. If this was the play they should have brought joba up quicker to see if he can get big leaguers out. Maybe they got betemit to assassinate farnswoth?

If anyone is to replace A-Rod next year the Yanks are in serious trouble.  But that’s next season, and I’m pretty sure this trade is about this season.  Here’s a news flash: Proctor just isn’t all that good, although I suppose he’ll be quite effective in Dodger Stadium.  The best thing about this trade is that it has to mean more bullpen moves are coming.

Let me put it this way for you folks:

nobody is expecting Betemit to replace A-Rod. That’s not at all what this move is about. The more I think about it, the more I like it.  The Yankees have gone from Nieves and Cairo to Molina and Betemit on the bench.

That’s huge improvement.

Next order of business,,,,Dump Farnsworth,,,,Try to get Gange with second shelf talent and $$$$.....Betemit is a nice player, a significant upgrade over Cairo…Besides he’s much younger & he has some pop….He’ll play better in NY…..

What’s the obsession with hanging on to Alan Horne?

I love this deal. That is all. Back to work for now.

I love this move. Betemit’s .231 average is the only thing keeping his numbers from being well above average. If he bumped that up into only the .250-.270 range, you’d be looking at a guy with close to .400 OBP and .500 SLG. Even if that doesn’t happen, he’s still a major upgrade over Cairo.

Furthermore, we only have to give up Proctor, who is as primed for a Tanyon Sturtze-esque, Joe-Torre-pitched-my-arm-into-oblivion second half as anyone ever.

With respect to next year, obviously Betemit is as good a replacement for A-Rod as 99% of all baseball players: not a good one.

Word coming from the FO is that there is still another move in the works.

This is a great move. The Yankees got pretty much everything they could’ve out of Proctor, and Betemit massively upgrades a bench that has been putrid. I think the Yankees have the parts to make a good bullpen, but the old dead weight (the Villones, the Proctors, the Farnsworths) has been in the way of the people who can help (the Brittons and Henns—of course, the former is injured and the latter’s up now, but still).

I love Brian Cashman.

I’m kind of mixed on this.  On the one hand, I think Proctor is an OK reliever - not much more than average talent wise, but can throw a lot of innings.  I think people get down on him because there is this sudden expectation that he should be Tom Gordon or something, which he isn’t.

On the other hand, well, Proctor is only an average reliever, and the Yankees could use some help on the bench.  So it’s good.  However, I’m not quite sure *how* good Betemit is.  He hasn’t really played a lot in the field, so I don’t know if his numbers are meaningful.  But he seems to be a below-average fielder everywhere except 1B.  And as a fist baseman, his hitting is only average, but in a limited sample. 

So…not really sure if this is much better than having traded for Craig Wilson last year.  True Betemit is younger and a better defender, however, if he fails in his first 20 PA will Torre use him the rest of the year?  Or will we instead see Damon at first?

Would Texas take Horne for Gagne?  And with Hughes, Joba and Kennedy in the pipeline and Marquez in Trenton plus Robertson in Tampa(are his stats an illusion or is he a prospect) does Horne have enough potential that we don’t want to part with him?

I guess that means I’ll get to watch Proctor stare down Bonds tomorrow night at Chevez Ravine….

I guess that means I’ll get to watch Proctor stare down Bonds tomorrow night at Chevez Ravine….

Only if Proctor can see into the Giants dugout from the pen.  I doubt Bonds plays much this week in LA.

What’s the obsession with hanging on to Alan Horne?

Hughes and Chamberlain are unexperienced and have injury concerns.  Better hang on to every starting pitching prospect you can in case someone like Hughes, Joba, or Kennedy doesn’t pan out.  Yanks will need all the arms they can get in the next year or two as Clemens, Mussina and Pettite leave/retire.

If they can get Gagne for some lesser pitching prospects like Steven White and/or a postion player like Mike Gardner, I’d be happy.  Especially knowing that will get a draft pick or two when Gagne leaves after the season.

Horne is a guy you can trade for something good. I would trade him for Gagne straight up. Horne and a couple other pretty good prospects for Gagne, I would think twice about, though.

Would Texas take Horne for Gagne?  And with Hughes, Joba and Kennedy in the pipeline and Marquez in Trenton plus Robertson in Tampa(are his stats an illusion or is he a prospect) does Horne have enough potential that we don’t want to part with him?

I don’t think the Rangers would, but Horne’s a pretty solid prospect. He could/should be movable in the “right deal”.

The one thing about the Proctor trade…a lot of the guys on the team seem to really like Scott. So, for those of you who are heavy into team morale, that might be interesting to note.

The Proctologist seems like a stand-up guy who didn’t shy away from his failures. I’ll cheer him on should he come back to the Stadium in another uniform. F-Worthless’ carcass needs to be excise from the team post haste. I’d even throw in an Eric Duncan to have another team take him off our hands.

“But he seems to be a below-average fielder everywhere except 1B.  And as a fist baseman, his hitting is only average, but in a limited sample.”

That’s probably what keeps him as a utility player. That said, he has a ton of tools and was once a highly touted prospect. The secondary offensive skills are there, if he can raise his average (although he might not be able to, given the Ks), he’s got a bat that plays anywhere. And he’s only 25.

According to a FAN caller Buster Olney is reporting Boston is on the verge of getting Gagne.  If that happens its going to be hard to score against them in the late innings.

Analysts say Horne had the talent to go in the first round or two of the draft, but fell because of signability and injury concerns.  He seems to have turned the corner this year, so I would hold on to him unless someone really wanted to overpay for him.

Fabian - while Scott does seem to be liked, I don’t know how much it will affect the clubhouse - most of the players are veterans and understand this is part of the game.

I don’t really know what to make of this trade.  On the one hand, it gives the bench a much needed fillip.  However, Torre really seems reluctant to use Edwar and Britton - meaning we could see a ton of Mike Myers and Ron Villone, which would be rather unfortunate.  All in all, the Yanks really could have used JB Cox this year.  It’s rather unfortunate that he needed TJ surgery.

Probably means Cairo is not long for the team…

Torre without Cairo is like Linus without his blanket.

According to a Chicago paper the Sox are also close to getting Dye for Willie Mo and DelCarmen.  He could be tough in Fenway.

And he’s only 25

I though he was 26?  ESPN has has b-day in January, 1980, so even if 1981 is the right year he would be 26.  Minor point, but he probably only has a year or two left to grow as a player.

Neyer just pointed out he thinks this is a pretty good trade, though he has concerns where Betemit will play (not his exact words).

Proctor is DONE.  he has been abused and he has been in a free fall since the all-star break.

Betemit is 25.  he plays every position. 

he currently has an .833 OPS.

he is a switch hitter.

when Proctor has elbow surgery this off-season, you will like this deal.

this is a very solid trade.

I’m not sure this means the end of Cairo.  It could just as likely mean that Betemit is your new 1B.

I’ll definitely be sad to see Proctor go, I liked the guy.  But, if this makes the team better, so be it.

The one thing about the Proctor trade…a lot of the guys on the team seem to really like Scott. So, for those of you who are heavy into team morale, that might be interesting to note.

yes, but Mariano just publicly asked for bullpen help last night.  meaning Mariano was saying Proctor and Farnsworth are not getting the job done.

i would guess that ALSO carries some weight with the team.

Happy trails Proctor.  You could have been better, but you were likeable all the same.

I’m excited with Betemit though, seems decent enough for utility duties and good bat on the bench.  Plus may still develop.  Hope you get your True Yankee moment this season and soon.

According to a FAN caller Buster Olney is reporting Boston is on the verge of getting Gagne.  If that happens its going to be hard to score against them in the late innings.

but it already is.

obviously it makes them better, but not as much impact as he would have had on the Yankees.

That said, he has a ton of tools and was once a highly touted prospect.

Enrique Wilson was once a highly touted prospect.

I still don’t get this trade.  Lose a lot of league average innings out of the bullpen to get an upgrade over Miguel Cairo? 

With Phillips looking downright competent, Mientkewicz and Giambi about to come back, Damon unable to play effectively elsewhere, theres already a logjam at first base.

I suspect there’s another trade in the works.  I also suspect that the Joba move to the bullpen is more than a stopgap.  Maybe the organization thinks he can be the medium term eighth inning guy and the long term successor for Mariano.  Sort of like Guitar Hero in Detroit.

Cutter…....Tomko is scheduled to throw tomorrow night, Proctor will be called upon as Tomko will struggle to make in thru th 6th…..As for Betemit, he’s a real good addition to the club….At least now there’s a PH option from the right side seeing that Torre doesn’t like Duncan for some reason….....By the way, Best wishes on the Bar exam….

Betemit won’t replace Andy Phillips at 1B (on a regular basis) for two reasons: 1) he isn’t very good with the leather (which doomed Josh Phelps) and 2) Andy has been playing well in every respect since his promotion.  As for Joba being switched to relief long term, I have serious doubts as that would greatly diminish his value.  Also, the Yanks will have some interesting options in the pen over the next few years, including JB Cox, David Robertson, Kevin Whelan, Humberto Sanchez and Mark Melancon.

Thanks So Cal.  I just have the mpre to get through now.

As for Proctor/Bonds, I just think Bonds won’t play much in LA.  He will want to break the record in SF.  So while they may face each other, it might not be as likely if he had already broken it.

I suspect there’s another trade in the works.  I also suspect that the Joba move to the bullpen is more than a stopgap.

no way the move to the pen is permanent for Joba.

in terms of talent, we robbed the Dodger blind here, but i just don’t see where we’re going to play Betemit right now, though i suppose Phillips probably will eventrually slump back and make a opening.

I wouldn’t mind getting Marte

I like Betemit’s game- have since his Braves days.  But I am concerned because, like the rest of this lineup, he doesn’t hit Lefty’s.  Can someone tell me why the Angels aren’t in the running for Dye?  They have the talent- why are they so cheap?  I hope Boston doesn’t get Gagne or Dye.  I hope the Mutts don’t get Gagne either- I’m pulling for the Brew Crew.

I think Cashman is being smart not to be sucked into a bidding war with Boston for Gagne…Its apparent that’s what is happening…..Screw it, maybe Farnsworth will get his act together now that Proctor’s gone….I doubt it, but maybe…..That being said, it will be exciting to see the Joba walking in from the pen, and high octane guys away….

Sox may have landed Gagne -

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7078768

no way the move to the pen is permanent for Joba

Agreed.  If he pitches well, the Yankees will find a spot in the rotation for him next year.  If he doesn’t, he’ll start in the AAA rotation next year (which is fine with me; it takes me 25 minutes to get to PNC Field).  But until he proves that he can’t start, he will be a starter.

no way the move to the pen is permanent for Joba

That was my first reaction, but I can’t understand why the Yankees organization would take the risk of putting him in Joe Torre’s bullpen, in a season where postseason success is such a longshot, unless they wanted to see him in that kind of role.

Then again, I still don’t understand why they traded Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps.

For Boston, Okajima and Papelbon are both very good this year,
Gagne won’t be the bog factor for them
I still think we have nice chance to get wildcard.

My forst reaction was that I wanted no part of Gagne, assuming his arm was done and he’s off the roids, etc.  Then I looked at his stats- nasty…and in Texas.  Why don’t other teams get involved in these deals?  Where is Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, etc? Gagne isn’t expensive.

If the trade is really Gabbard and Murphy for Gagne…wow, puke

How are Gabbard and Murphy regarded by scouts?

Gagne is a rent-a-player, that’s why there won’t be much offered for him. He is a FA, IOW. If any team gives up a lot, it better not be the Yankees.

The Brewers already made a bullpen move a few days ago, getting Linebrink.

Boston and Texas agree to Gagne deal in principle. From WFAN.

Yeah, but how the hell are Kason fucking Gabbard and Dave Murphy worth more than two draft picks? The Rangers are fucking retarded.

The Brewers already made a bullpen move a few days ago, getting Linebrink.

And their bullpen is still imploding. Gagne would be a good pick-up for them. Especially if it wouldn’t take that much to get him.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/betemwi01.shtml

I saw a couple posts (#18 ) mentioning Betemit being a good first baseman.

According to the link I posted, he has never played at first base.  I see 3B, SS, 2B, DH and even two games at RF, but no 1B.  Are you guys messing with my mind, or am I just blind?

hmm….looks like the east is going to be much tougher to take. Maybe he will reject the deal. Does he have to decide by 4? Atleast we will never have to see gabbard he looks pretty good, and only see gagne this year.

Gagne has to waive his no trade.

I do not believe that Gagne is a type ‘A’ FA as he pitched so little the past few years. So no compensation.

The Rangers must think they’re gettnig DALE Murphy.

You wouldn’t give them Clippard, Kartsens, and Gardner for Gagne?  The draft picks make the trade stupid for Texas.

Gabbard is lefty with uninspiring stuff. He’s not much of a haul. Murphy is a soon-to-be 26 year-old outfielder who has never slugged. 450 at any minor league stop. The Red Sox aren’t giving up much.

The Sox are also giving up Engel Beltre, a guy with a lot of power and strikeouts, who is 17 and playing in the GCL.

I stole all of that information from Matt Clement of Alexandria over at Primer.

The Sox have a history of getting a lot for a little, compare what they gave up for a younger Schilling with what the Yankees gave up for RJ.  I wonder how much of this is animus toward the Yankees.  This trade looks like an out and out giveaway.

The Sox are also giving up Engel Beltre, a guy with a lot of power and strikeouts, who is 17 and playing in the GCL

Ah, a lottery card. Boston isn’t giving up anything they’re likely to regret.

I’m upset they still have F-Worthless on the team. Is Cashman adamant about sending him out to the mound to justify the crap contract he gave him? I don’t care if no one wants him, DFA the guy and get it over with. So the pen will be Villone, Myers F-Worthless, Edwar, Mo and Chamberlain? Between those choices and Torre’s bullpen usage, there’ll be a lot of stressful seventh and eighth innings. Villone, F-Worthless and Myers will be the first options out of the ‘pen.

I heard that Texas wanted either Ian Kennedy, or Melky,,,,,,Fuck that noise…...

Texas apparently got Engel Beltre from the Red Sox as well.

Epstein is much better than Cashman. Thats why they get better player for less talent.

I can’t believe Cashman did not get Gagne, we really need him and we could have resign him in the offseason if he pitched well here. I don’t trut Cashman anymore.

Awful deal for the Rangers, if that’s correct.

Epstein is much better than Cashman. Thats why they get better player for less talent.

Epstein seems pretty solid and might well be better than Cashman, that doesn’t make any sense.

Why wouldn’t The Mutts give Milledge for him?  Or Pelfrey?  I don’t know which of those 2 teams I detest more so I really don’t care.  Just wondering where Detroit and Cleveland were?

I missed a “but” before “that doesn’t make sense.” It’s not as though Epstein hypnotized Daniels into accepting a lousy package.

Texas first wanted Hughes or Joba, then wanted Kennedy , then Melky and then Horne. But Cashman fell asleep.

Texas first wanted Hughes or Joba, then wanted Kennedy , then Melky and then Horne. But Cashman fell asleep.

What does this even mean? Are you saying he should have given up one or all of these guys to get a two month rental?

Gagne may agree to the Boston deal because Boston may promise him the chance to close - that’s what Gagne wants.  Let Papelbon set up Gagne, reminding Paps that he’ll be in the rotation next year anyway.

Gagne probably couldn’t get the same assurances from the Yanks.  Mo isn’t going anywhere.

Yanks may not have wanted to pay that much (in terms of talent) for Gagne, who would probably be bitter being Mo’s set-up man. 

As for Rangers taking next to nothing for Gagne, Daniels is still high from the Texiera haul and could care less about Gagne.

As for Farnsworth - just DFA him.  Pure and simple.  Nobody is going to give you anything for him and he isn’t doing anyone any good while rotting in the BP.  Time to cut bait.

IF there’s draftpick compensation for Gane when he walks, can’t The Yankees draft a Horne type talent next year?  Or is Horne that highly regarded?  I’m happy to get away from the win-now ren-a-player model but I would have like to see some other team that I don’t hate (not Mutts or Sawks) get involved in the bidding.

Cashman got the worst player from Japan and Epstein signed the best two. Epstein passed on Damon and Cashman signed him to an awful contract. And Epstein is going to sign Arod in november meanwhile Cashamn is going to let him walk. I hope Cashamn gets fired this offseason, I don’t understand why people love him that much. HE SUCKS!

Gagne couldn’t veto a trade to New York.
Closing for Boston explains why Gagne would accept a Boston deal but doesn’t explain how Texas agreed to this deal.

Nobody is going to give you anything for him and he isn’t doing anyone any good while rotting in the BP.  Time to cut bait.

Can we at least wait until after 4PM to DFA Farnsworth?

Texas first wanted Hughes or Joba, then wanted Kennedy , then Melky and then Horne.

Those are all much better players than what Boston gave up.

But Cashman fell asleep.

How do we know this? I’m not suggesting that Cashman is absolutely as good or better than Epstein, but I wouldn’t fault Cashman for refusing to turn over very good or pretty good prospects for two months of Gagne. Especially since he don’t know what the whole package would have been. I would be happy to trade Horne for Gagne, but Horne and Marquez, that’s a maybe. Horne and a couple of decent to pretty good prospects, I’d be leery.

I hope Cashamn gets fired this offseason, I don’t understand why people love him that much. HE SUCKS!

All I can say is I’m glad you aren’t in charge of the Yankees.

Can we at least wait until after 4PM to DFA Farnsworth?

That’s fine as long as he isn’t wearing pinstripes on 8/1.

Tox - Texas may have accepted the deal because that’s the best they could get.  Gagne’s best shot at closing for a contender was for Boston.  For everyone else, he’d be a set-up man and probably wouldn’t be happy with it.

“What does this even mean? Are you saying he should have given up one or all of these guys to get a two month rental?”

I say Cashamn should given Horne for Gagne straight up. It’s not like you are emptying the farm system, you just giving up one pitching prospect when you have 5 better than him. And you are getting a closer to set up for Mo.

I say Cashamn should given Horne for Gagne straight up.

I agree, but perhaps Daniels wanted more. Supposedly, he was hot for an outfielder, having discussed Lil’ Tony Gwynn with Milwaukee earlier this season. If it’s Horne and, say, Melky Cabrera, that’s not too good for New York. The Yankees didn’t really have an outfield semi-prospect to include in the trade, while Boston had one in Murphy.

Next year, three to four-fifths of the starting rotation could be occupied by home-grown players all under the age of 28. Two of those players could be significant contributors to this season’s stretch run. I haven’t been as excited about the Yankees’ present and future as I have these past two months. Gagne going to the Red Sox guarantees them nothing more than a berth to the post-season that they have already locked up. I simply don’t care about that, I want to see Hughes and Chamberlain pitch in the Bronx. Cashman’s stewardship is making this happen.

I say Cashamn should given Horne for Gagne straight up

The way I heard it was, it was a package centered around Horne.  Which implies to me that Texas wanted Horne plus something else.  How do you know that Cashman didn’t say, “Horne for Gagne staight-up, but I’m not giving Clippard as well”?

Wilson Betemit is 25, a switch hitter, and has a career OPS+ of 100. I think this move is about this year and years to come. Hopefully this is the end of Miguel Cairo.

Epstein has made questionable deals as well: Mirabelli, Lugo, Drew, Becket (see Hanley Ramirez), and possibly Matsusaka when all is said and done.  The thing is, he has also made some great deals.  I like what Cashman has done with the farm but, in terms of MLB personel, he has made very few good deals and a lot of bad deals. I know you have the Tampa/Cashman argument but he is the GM and many bad deals occurred during his tenure.  On the positive side, he prevented a lot of bad deals from happening.

I say Cashamn should given Horne for Gagne straight up.

You, me and Cashman may agree to that, but would Jon Daniels? If I’m Jon Daniels or any other GM working outside of the Bronx, I ask for a lot more from the Yankees than I do any other team. I say Texas agrees to a Farnsworth for Gagne deal… but it ain’t going to happen either.

I don’t see how a GM can be worse than Cashamn this offseason.

1.He traded one of the best bats in the AL for a Tommy John Surgery prospect (and he chose Abreu over him)
2.He signed the worst pitcher ever to a 4 year contract and did not signed Lilly or Meche at the same fucking price. Brilliant.
3. He trusted Pavano to make the Yankees rotation with Hughes,Karstens and Rasner pitching in AAA. I know the Mariners were interested in him and he refused to deal him. At any price was a steal.
4.Signed Minky to play 1st base, when Phillips was much better option and cost much less.
5. And now at the trade deadline there is a rumor that he passed on Gagne for Horne and he sent Joba to Torre’s pen. Unbelievable job by the Yankees GM.

Sorry, I forgot the worst one. HE DID NOT FIRE TORRE LAST YEAR!!

If its true about what Texas wanted from the Yanks compared to what they actually took from Boston it tells me that this is not an example of the free market at work but more likely an I hate New York attitude.

in terms of MLB personel, he has made very few good deals and a lot of bad deals

I don’t think he has made any more “bad” decisions than your average GM, and has also made quite a few good ones.  Some even that we remember as bad, really were good moves.  Chris Hammond?  Good move.  We remember it as bad because Torre mis-used him, and he wasn’t Mike Stanton of 1998.  But building through the farm is the way to build championships, and since Cashman has been allowed to handle that, he is building a VERY strong farm team.

I’m not worried about Gagne to the sox. The more prospects they give up the better, Gagne isn’t the same pitcher anyway, and he’s certainly easier to score on than the japanese guy or papelbon.

about betemit, i wouldn’t have started to rebuild the Pen by shipping Proctor out but what really makes no sense is this quote from Torre…

“Yankees manager Joe Torre has complained about the significant dropoff offensively from his starters to reserves, and Betemit could be the answer.

We’ll see how it works out. Do we recall Britton? I think I’m fine with it.

I’m not worried about Gagne to the sox. The more prospects they give up the better,

I agree, except the Red Sox gave up suspects, rather than prospects.

I hope Cashamn gets fired this offseason, I don’t understand why people love him that much. HE SUCKS!

if it is true that Texas asked for Melky or Kennedy, then this is not Cashman’s fault.

i wouldn’t make that trade and if you would, you should probably find another blog to post on.

Sorry, I forgot the worst one. HE DID NOT FIRE TORRE LAST YEAR!!

Okay, I’ll agree with that one.  But the rest?  This ain’t a video game, where you make the trades or FA signings you want.  Other people actually want to do them too.

Whose to say Lilly or Meche had ANY interest in coming to NY?  In this off-season, it was a no-brainer for Abreau over Sheff.  What was the M’s interest?  Pay Pavano’s entire salary and we’ll give you a 27 year old single-A player?

Sure, you’re frustrated about the season.  But try to deal in reality for a while.

Why wouldn’t The Mutts give Milledge for him?

man, thank God some of you guys aren’t GMs.