I find this fascinating if true.  I’m not getting my hopes up yet though.

Now that I think about it, I wouldn’t be surprised if Boras was behind this rumor.  It would be completely like him to try to stir up something, anything on the A-Rod front.  It’s been pretty dead so far.

Well, if this is true, obviously this is good news. Although, 10 years takes him through his age 41 season. But I guess if anyone has the projection to be productive as a DH, its Alex Rodriguez.

In this entire mess of bullshit, I find it interesting that it seems like Boras is the problem here.  What kind of asshole doesn’t put what his clients interests are first? I mean, maybe it was ARods doing, but I would not be surprised to learn that Alex wanted to take the deal and Boras convinced him to turn it down to get more money.

And I’m no PR genius, but if Alex got in front of a microphone and said “I’m sorry, I took some bad advice from my shithead agent who has been with me since I was a teenager, I’ve always wanted to be a Yankee some I’m coming back (at less than I wanted) and I’ve fired my agent” then I believe people would welcome him back with open arms. Maybe.

Interesting, though I won’t be surprised if ARod signs with the Angels tomorrow morning for 11/398.

tokyojordan makes a good point. This could be a way of at least setting the bar low for ARod services.  He’s forcing the Yankees to make him an offer, and then he can go from there.

We haven’t heard from John yet?  I really hope that this is true. It would really disappoint me if he ended up in Boston (or LAA) and we get Lowell who though good for maybe two years will have to start slowing down. A-rod’s departure takes a lot of scare out of our lineup and I sincerely hope that there is a chance he would be retained.

This could be a way of at least setting the bar low for ARod services.  He’s forcing the Yankees to make him an offer, and then he can go from there.

This could be a possibility.  But if the reports are true that A-Rod is upset with Boras, I doubt it.  Unless that is also a ploy.  Somehow I find that a bit much even for Boras.

Somehow I find that a bit much even for Boras.

Very true, although nothing would surprise me at this point.  It’s entirely conceivable that Boras overplayed his hand and A-Rod is pissed.

I’m sorry, I can’t help myself:

LF Damon
SS Jeter
RF Abreu
3B ARod
DH Matsui
C Posada
1B Giambi/Duncan (v RHP/v LHP)
2B Cano
CF Cabrera

IF Betemit
IF Phillips
C Molina
OF/PR Gardner

P Wang
P Hughes
P Chamberlain
P Kennedy
P Mussina
P Pettite?

CL Rivera
RP Vizcaino
RP Riske
RP Ramirez, E
RP Britton
RP Veras
RP Ohlendorff
RP Cox

That would be much better.

See, this is why it was genius of the Yankees to lock in Posada and Mo first.  Excellent contract offers all around!

Sorry about that guys. The lineups I’ve been scribbling in my notebook just sort of suck so much with that gaping hole in the middle.

i am skeptical of the yankees offering Alex a 10 year contract.

i am not sure i buy that.

but i do buy that the door has been opened a little.

and i do buy that Boras PROMISED Alex that the Yankees were bluffing.

i’d say there is a 10% chance he comes back now.  not the 90% chance these reports seem to imply.

i’d say there is a 10% chance he comes back now.  not the 90% chance these reports seem to imply.

Damn.  You’re even more skeptical than I am.  I’d at least go as high as 17%.

i am skeptical of the yankees offering Alex a 10 year contract.

Yeah, $27.5 for 3 seasons where he’ll be north of 40? I guess we need specifics. I’m guessing blanket NTC.

I think he’ll be fine as a DH then. But he’ll be an expensive one, thats for sure.

Again, if this is indeed true, I give the Steinbrenners a lot of credit. After the dust settled, it became obvious that ARod was still the best option for the Yankees at 3B, but their self imposed constraint on not dealing with him was not logical. The fact that they say they’re willing to talk makes it sound like cooler heads have prevailed. Perhaps Cashman is that cooler head?

Another interesting twist on an interesting offseason, whether or not the story is true.

It’s smart for the Yankees to keep the channels open for an ARod deal.  Don’t forget, this rumor restores a little leverage to the Yankees in their pursuit of possible replacements for ARod.

Rolen is kind of a bargain at 3/36. I know that it’s a stretch that he could bounce back to his pre 30yr old 140ish OPS but he certainly warrants a look. He wouldn’t replace A-rods production, but the slap in the face to Boras would be almost worth it.

Don’t forget, this rumor restores a little leverage to the Yankees in their pursuit of possible replacements for ARod.

Thats a good point too.  Why give up Hughes/Cano for Miguel Cabrera? If you don’t bring the price down, we’ll just sign ARod and you’ll get nothing.

If the Yanks really had leverage, which is doubtful, they would not go beyond seven years for a theoretical contract for A-Rod.  As for Miguel Cabrera, the Marlins were never going to get their best offer from the Yanks anyway.  The Dodgers can easily offer a much better package.  Regarding Rolen, he’s certainly worth a look, especially as his three year deal would be rather attractive.  I’m sure the Yanks would have no problem taking on his $12 per year salary.  The only question is what the Cardinals would demand in return.  At this point, they pretty much HAVE to deal him given the horrid relationship between him and La Russa.

Rolen is kind of a bargain at 3/36. I know that it’s a stretch that he could bounce back to his pre 30yr old 140ish OPS but he certainly warrants a look.

Eh, maybe but the Yankees really don’t need to sift through the bargain bin right now.
Plus, he’s got an average OBP of .341 for the last 3 years with injury problems galore.  No thanks.

their self imposed constraint on not dealing with him was not logical.

On the contrary, I think this stance was very logical.  And if the story is true, the stance may still pay dividends, as the rumored deal appears to involve some discount off ARod’s price in the amount of the Texas money.

Let’s face it.  There’s a lot of bluffing going on here.  The Yankees refusal to negotiate with ARod if he opted out was essentially a bluff.  ARod/Boras called the bluff.  But Boras/ARod are also bluffing that they can get more money from some team besides the Yankees, so the Yankees call that bluff.  It’s all logical in it’s own way.

It appears as though then Yankees are not retarded.

What I like most about this story is that it actually sounds BELIEVABLE, not like some of the far-fetched stuff I had been reading (mostly in the Times, which doesn’t seem to know sports that well).

I would very much like a 10 year/$275 deal - everyone wins there. A-Rod gets a freaking RAISE off of the highest contract ever, and the Yankees get possibly the best player in baseball for a contract that’s not even THAT insane, when Alfonso Soriano and Derek Jeter make $20 million.

Yeah, $27.5 for 3 seasons where he’ll be north of 40? I guess we need specifics. I’m guessing blanket NTC.

let’s not forget, if Alex comes back, he becomes a 10-5 guy after next season.

a NTC won’t be worth much to him.

If the Yanks really had leverage, which is doubtful, they would not go beyond seven years for a theoretical contract for A-Rod.

While they may not have the leverage to shorten the length of the deal, they would appear to have enough leverage to lessen the dollars and insist that Boras not be in the room.  Again, if the story is true.

As for Miguel Cabrera, the Marlins were never going to get their best offer from the Yanks anyway.

How do you know this?  Maybe the Dodgers CAN offer a better package, but how do you know they will?

Yeah, SAS, but I think that’s the thing about leverage - all the Marlins need to do to the Yankees is INTIMATE that the Dodgers can do better (which the Yankees know they could) and the Yanks would lose leverage, unless the Yanks could somehow demonstrate that the Dodgers are NOT interested.

It is, of course, all negotiation tactics - just saying that just knowing that the Dodgers have great available prospects is enough for the Yankees to lose leverage.

who knows, 27.5 million might be the going rate for an average player in 7 years.

The Dodgers can offer a package of young players that would not immediately hurt their present chances of contending, i.e. by including guys like LaRoche and Kershaw who are either a) blocked or b) a year or two from the majors.  The Yanks, on the other hand, would have to give up either Hughes, Joba or IPK, which, in the absence of Pettitte, would mean a lot of innings going to an inferior or unproven pitcher.  Obviously, there is a chance guys like Clippard, Horne or Marquez could fill in decently, but there’s no guarantee.  Essentially, the Yanks would be downgrading their present rotation to bump up the offense and would also be giving a hit to the team’s defense.  That just doesn’t make sense.

who knows, 27.5 million might be the going rate for an average player in 7 years.

I think there’s an excellent chance that 27.5 million is not a crazy salary in 2014.

2017, though, probably.

The Times has also picked up this story on their web site, FWIW.

Still way too many question marks here.  I think either way, Alex doesn’t sign a contract until after the new year. 

At this point, this is all posturing.  ARod trying to spin things one way, the Yanks trying to spin it another…

sure, there are a ton of question marks.

But this looks ok.

I’ll believe this, and A-Rod, when A-Rod fires Boras.

That said, if the Yanks do negotiate with A-Rod (sans Boras), then I hope they persuade Alex to take a deal that would equal what his original contract was worth (minus Texas’ money) - and not a dollar more.

Signing A-Rod to a long term deal worth more than his original contract and A-Rod wins.  So does Boras, who can show even his clients can get more money by themselves when they opt out of a Boras-written contract.

I could care less about inflation when A-Rod is forty - he won’t be worth the money.  Chances are you will be able to find a younger, cheaper player that will match a 40-year old A-Rod’s performance.

Who da hell knows?  I just wish the whole Arod thing would be resolved one way or another.  If I could return to some previous discussions…

Surprised about the vocal minority that’s hatin’ on the Posada contract.  I know this wouldn’t hold up to any empirical analyses, but I think the FO needed to exhibit a certain amount of good will toward fans.  After Torre and Mattingly, they needed to create a warmish feeling.  And while decisions shouldn’t be made based on what Lupica will think of them, consider that if Jorge went to the Mets, the back pages would’ve spontaneously combusted in a way that would’ve been enormously distracting. 

Also, I believe there’s a difference between overpaying for your own guy and overpaying Carl Pavano.  Besides, I think Cashman et. al. are not wearing blinders on this.  They know this contract will be a nuisance come 2011, and I think there’s a plan to find a catcher of the future to be ready that year, perhaps in ‘10.

For the record, I would’ve hopped off the train if it had meant a 5-year deal, and I also disagree with joeln that the FO should’ve extended Jorge last winter.  It was not unreasonable to expect a fairly rapid Posada decline; as I said once before, if you stay on 18 and the next card off the deck is a 3…that doesn’t mean you made the wrong decision.

On the whole to-rebuild-or-not-to-rebuild question, I disagree with Yatt.  As long as you have a chance to play in October—and this team, even minus Arod, does—I think it’s silly to say this is a post-season caliber team but not a WS champ caliber team.  Too fine a distinction.  If there’s one thing we’ve learned recently, it’s that bizarre stuff can happen in the playoffs because of the small sample size.  Get in and you can catch lightning in a bottle.  Especially if you have young power pitching, which for once we do.

But more to the point, it struck me as bizarre that this discussion should happen in the context of Posada’s money.  It’s not like they have the young Johnny Bench ready to be the new backstop.  Jorge isn’t blocking anybody, and it’s absurd to suggest that his contract amounts to “mortgaging the future.”  This isn’t going to keep Cashman from signing 1 or 2 marquee guys next spring—all it would involve is taking Giambi and Abreu’s checks and signing them over to Sabathia and whomever.

Now, if it got down to “Do you trade the young talent for Mig. Cabrera or Santana”...that’s that’s where the rubber meets the road and you can have a legit discussion about whether a serious ‘08 run mortgages the future.

Signing A-Rod to a long term deal worth more than his original contract and A-Rod wins.

Who cares if ARod “wins”?  I’m as mad at him as the next guy right now, but if he wants to come back to the Yankees for a *reasonable* contract, then I don’t care if it can be viewed as ARod winning, or Boras either.  I mean, if the ARod deal is for 1 million less than his previous contract, you’re going to be happy, and it is 1 million more, you’re going to be pissed?

No, I don’t want the Yankees to sign ARod to a 10/350 contract.  Not because I don’t want ARod to “win”, but because I think it is a bad deal.  I mean, I’d really like a 1 year contract worth 1 million dollars, with a team option for each of the next 9 years.  But that isn’t happening, so I’d be happy with 6/180.  If he wants more years, make them club-options that can be vested, one year at a time.  And to clarify, I’m not going to be pissed if it is 7 years, but would like them to be options.

i think the yankees did OK on the Posada contract.  it was probably too long by 1 year, but i think the AAV was lower than expected.  $11-12M is the new salary for above average players.

i think a lot of people here would have been happy with $48M/3 years.

if that’s the case, consider the 4th year a team option with a $4M buyout.

Yeah, SAS, but I think that’s the thing about leverage - all the Marlins need to do to the Yankees is INTIMATE that the Dodgers can do better (which the Yankees know they could) and the Yanks would lose leverage…

Like you said, though, it’s negotiation.  My point was that the Yankees might be using the same tactic by INTIMATING that ARod is coming back.

The Dodgers can offer a package of young players that would not immediately hurt their present chances of contending

Again, they CAN, but how do you know that they will?  You’re making a big assumption there.  How do you know that they’d include Kershaw in a deal?

Essentially, the Yanks would be downgrading their present rotation to bump up the offense and would also be giving a hit to the team’s defense.  That just doesn’t make sense.

Again, you’re making so many assumptions here:  that Joba, Hughes or even Kennedy MUST be part of any deal for Cabrera, that Melky would be included (I presume this is the “hit to the defense” to which you refer), or that if the Yankees DID lose Kennedy, that that would be a significant downgrade to the rotation.

The hit to the defense is Cabrera (Miguel, that is) playing any position on the field.  And if you think the Yanks could trade for him without including their top three pitchers or even Melky, well, that doesn’t really pass muster - esp. as the Marlins are in need of a CF.  Obviously, Austin Jackson is too but the Marlins will want at least some major league ready talent in exchange for their best player.  Also, from what I’ve read, the Dodgers are really making a huge effort to acquire Cabrera - perhaps because they’d rather not shell out the coin necessary to sign A-Rod.

Mike - I think signing A-Rod to a long-term deal is bad for the Yankees.  It has nothing to do with who wins or not.  Long-term deals rarely workout in the team’s benefit.  They should be avoided like the plague.

Winning/losing this A-Rod situation will go a long way in allowing the Yankee front office to sign players to reasonable deals.  If the Yanks capitulate and sign A-Rod to a long-term deal, you can forget about any player/agent accepting a league-average (much less a home team discount) contract.  Why should they?  Wait a while, make the Yankees squirm, and they’ll offer you MORE money.

A-Rod getting more money than the Yanks offered originally would doom the Yanks.  No one would do any serious negotiating with the Yanks.  They would just hold out for more and more money.

It’s all about precedent.  Now is not the time to set a bad one, not with all the money coming off the Yanks’ books in the next two years.

Screw A-Rod.  He thought he had the Yanks by the nuts.  He thought he held all the cards.  He was wrong.  Time to pay (which is relative, of course).

The hit to the defense is Cabrera (Miguel, that is) playing any position on the field.

Of course.  Fair enough.  Although M-Cab could DH down the line for the Yankees.

And if you think the Yanks could trade for him without including their top three pitchers or even Melky, well, that doesn’t really pass muster - esp. as the Marlins are in need of a CF.

You’re PROBABLY correct, but as I explained in a previous post, given the structure of the Josh Beckett deal, I don’t think a deal centered around Tabata or Jackson is COMPLETELY out of the question.

But my original point was that these ARod rumors give the Yankees more leverage in looking for potential replacements, which you seem to dispute.  I would add that the leverage doesn’t just apply to talks with the Marlins about Cabrera, but also to talks about Tejada, Rolen, Ensberg, negotiations with Lowell, etc.

And if you think the Yanks could trade for him without including their top three pitchers or even Melky, well, that doesn’t really pass muster

I assume you mean ONE OF their top 3 pitchers.  In any case, I agree.  I think I’d be willing to do a deal in which Kennedy is the headliner, but even then I think the Pettitte thing has to be sorted out first before we start trading starters.  The defensive downgrade from one Cabrera to the other would be most disquieting.  It looks like we don’t have the pieces—or aren’t willing to part with the pieces—to make this happen.

10/275 would probably be enough for the Yankees to save face, though, Yatt.  Further, this is being presented (spun?) as ARod approaching the Yankees, tacitly admitting an error.

I understand not wanting to set a bad precedent.  Frankly, the precedent I don’t really like is the one they seem to be setting in negotiations with Mo (what other team was really going to top 3/39 for Mo?)!  This (as presented in the dubious articles posted above) represents ARod coming back to them and signing a deal that most people will agree is not insane (translation: Boras lost, or rather he simply didn’t win the way he usually does, driving his enemies before him and listening to the lamentation of their women and whatnot).

I still doubt this is going to happen.  I think it’s a ploy.

I hope this does not happen.

Although M-Cab could DH down the line for the Yankees.

Boy, we’ve got a lot of people earmarked for that DH slot come 2010—MigCab, Posada, Jeter, Shelley…

SAS, I remember that post about the Beckett deal.  But as someone pointed out at the time, Lowell was considered subtraction by addition for the Redsox at the time, a bad contract they had to take to make the deal happen. 

Besides, I would argue that Beckett’s resume at the time, 2003 WS heroics notwithstanding, wasn’t as stellar as Cabrera’s is now.  Before the age of 25 Cabrera has put together 3 years with an OPS over .940.  Beckett hadn’t done anything comparable, hadn’t even put together a 30-start season and was plagued by a blister problem that some thought would stand between him and greatness.

Yatt, the Yankees already set the precedent by falling all over themselves after the Mets had lunch with Posada. Almost immediately they offered a fourth year. There was no way the Mets were giving an aging Posada a four year deal in a league without a DH.

This team, which is aging in many positions, and hasn’t been to a WS since 2003, keeps bringing back the same, only older now, players. The last roundup.

The same taem that won’t move Derek Jeter off SS.

Yatt,

I agree that long-term deals are risky, but your position that such deals should be “avoided like the plague” and that the Yankees would be “doomed” is too inflexible and extreme.  In this case, a relatively reasonable long-term deal for ARod could help keep the team competitive in the short term while allowing the team to hold onto ALL of their young players/prospects.  My top goal for the offseason has been to remain competitive while holding onto all of Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Jackson and Tabata.  Signing ARod would certainly satisfy that goal.

Cabrera, who is 24, really isn’t doing any team he plays for any favors by being a liability in the field at such a young age.  Obviously, his ability to hit like nobody’s business makes that a relatively moot point, but for a team like the Yanks who will almost certainly have a logjam at the position, as B-man points out, that’s certainly a big negative.

As for A-Rod, I really don’t see why needs to be offered 10 years.  Why?  If there is no market for him at 10/350 perhaps teams ought to begin by subtracting years.  How about 7/210 for instance?

If they must, yes, seven years should be the max.

Long term deals suck.  Period.  Thanks to the Posada signing, we now have our 1B/DH for 2009 and 2010.  Just in time since Giambi is our 1B/DH/should be off the roster Player for 2008.  Posada may have to share time with Matsui and/or Damon in 2009, but 2010 is all his.

After that, it’s all clear for A-Rod, who will be fit for DH until he’s 41.  Of course, some posters believe that thanks to inflation, 27.5 million will be peanuts.  So what’s the worry?  Just keep shelling out money for the vets and the “true Yankees” - it’s all good. 

Honestly, if Yanks can sign A-Rod without Boras, great.  As long as the deal is worth no more, in years or dollars, than the original contract A-Rod opted out of.

Yanks need flexibility and they need younger players.

They don’t need to make A-Rod their linchpin for the next decade.  I shudder to think that up and coming rooks would be taking lessons from A-Rod.  A dugout full of pricks won’t win anything, no matter what the stats predict.

“deal for ARod could help keep the team competitive in the short term while allowing the team to hold onto ALL of their young players/prospects.”

You should say that ARod will keep the team the best team in baseball (assuming Mo and Pettitte follow) which is what they were for 2/3 of the season when they weren’t pitching Kartsens, Chase Wright, Pavano, and Clippard.  Add the improved innings from Hughes, Joba, and maybe IPK which they didn’t have during much of that 2/3 stretch and maybe they are a better team.  Certainly they are a tight squad and if ARod comes back that proves it.

Long-term deals rarely workout in the team’s benefit.  They should be avoided like the plague

Fair enough.  But what constitutes a “long term deal”?  I proposed 6 years for ARod, potentially with options.  Given his age and reasonable projections, I don’t think that is too long.  What’s your definition of long?  Three years?  Five?  I agree 10 is probably too long given his age (again, unless the Yankees have a way out of the last several).

As for precedent…I agree if the Yankees give ARod 10/350, that is a bad precedent.  But going up from the initial offer isn’t bad precedent.  That’s actually good precedent, and probably the same thing they did with Damon.  Which is, make an offer, and say, “be reasonable, and we’ll negotiate”.  When Damon came down to reasonable numbers, they negotiated.  If ARod comes down to reasonable numbers, and they give him 2 million more a year over the same years they initially offered, how is that a bad precedent?

Boy, we’ve got a lot of people earmarked for that DH slot come 2010—MigCab, Posada, Jeter, Shelley…

I’ll give you MigCab and Posada, but Jeter shouldn’t need to DH, and Shelley Duncan just isn’t a concern.

And I agree that the Yankees PROBABLY won’t be able to get MigCab, etc.  I’m just disputing the idea that it’s IMPOSSIBLE for the Yankees to acquire MigCab without giving up Joba, Hughes and, to a lesser extent, Kennedy.  As I mentioned in that other post, it is VERY rare for teams to trade prospects of the caliber of Joba or Hughes in ANY deal.

I think the yanks should pay Arod 300/10. I know long term contracts doesn’t benefit the team in the long term, but this deal would be good for the next 5 years or more. And is costing only MONEY which the Yankees have plenty and not talent. If we get Cabrera we are going to give up talent and if we want him over the long term we will have to pay him like Arod by 2010.

I also agree that the Rivera contract offer reeks a lot more than 10/275 for A-Rod.

3/45 when the highest paid closer gets 10.75 per annum? And Rivera’s getting a 50% RAISE for his 39-41 years?!?!

That’s crazy. Yet, I do loves me some Rivera.

And yes, SAS, I agree it is not impossible, but it is essentially so if, say, the Angels seriously offer Kendrick. If they do that, how could the Yankees possibly beat that offer?

I mean, damn, Kendrick is basically a star NOW.

Mike - to me, six years is a long-term deal.  I have no line in the sand as to what constitutes a long-term deal and what doesn’t.  It’s like porn - I know it when I see it.  At the end of a six year deal, A-Rod will be 38.  That’s old.  I don’t care how good projections say he’ll be, he probably won’t be worth it.

If you want to tie up a youngster to a long-term deal, I can see that.  However, when you start dealing with veterans in their 30s, it gets dicey quick.

As for Damon’s contract, the situation is different.  Damon didn’t opt out of his contract.  He was a FA and the Yanks courted him.  A-Rod left because he wanted more money than the ridiculous sum he had on the table, and more than the ridiculous extension the Yanks would offer him.

I posted that last one quicker than I meant to.

I meant to add, “Yes, you can get players like Cabrera without giving up players like Joba, Hughes and Kennedy, but not in a market like this, where Kendrick is apparently in play.”

That the Yankees ‘have plenty’ [of money] today may be fact. With a serious economic downturn now underway, they likely won’t be rolling in $$$$ in the future. First thing people save on are discretionary spending.

Surprised Bora$$ didn’t ask Alex be paid in Euros.

I shudder to think that up and coming rooks would be taking lessons from A-Rod.  A dugout full of pricks won’t win anything, no matter what the stats predict.

except Melky and Cano love Alex and looked up to him as a mentor.

those guys seem alright.

but yeah, i guess A-Rod has the power to poison an entire generation of players and change all of their personalities.  look out!!

Unless A-Rod was part of the decision to release the opt-out news during the time of WS, I have no problem with him opting out or asking for a lot of money.  A good majority of baseball fans are reluctant to believe A-Rod is really worth the crazy money he asked for, but there are legitimate arguments that is he worth it. 

His reason for opting out was supposedly that the Yankees didn’t look stable with the coaching and FA questions.  Hardly anybody believed this reason, even if they agreed with the assessment, apparently because A-Rod opted out 10 days before the deadline, during which those questions might have been answered.  It turned out that none of those questions were answered, and the time didn’t matter, and maybe A-Rod and Boras knew that (and probably wouldn’t have been able then to say so).  Now, just as Posada and Rivera seem closer to coming back (and A-Rod may know more than we do), A-Rod is showing interest.  The timing suggests A-Rod’s original reason for opting-out MAY be legitimate.  It’s almost impossible to assume that it didn’t help his decision to leave.

except Melky and Cano love Alex and looked up to him as a mentor.

They love him and look to him as a mentor?  Where’d you read that?  I though Pena was their mentor?

Are you sure A-Rod is who you want as the face of the Yankees?

Of course, I could be wrong.  A-Rod could lead the Yanks to glory.  I’m not betting on that though.

I mean, damn, Kendrick is basically a star NOW.

I think you have to play more than 160 games over two seasons to be a star.  It also helps to draw more than 14 non-intentional walks in over 600 PA.  He doesn’t hit home runs and he doesn’t steal bases.  He strikes out a fair bit.

Now, I’m not one to focus on what a player can’t do, and I do think that Hendrick can be a very good and valuable player.  But he’s got a ways to go before I’d call him a star.

And BTW, the evidence that Kendrick and Adenhart (and all those Dodgers) are “in play” is one story in a Miami paper that got repeated almost verbatim by the LA Times a day later.  It sounds like a leak about what the Marlins want rather than credible information about what the LA teams are willing to give up.

First thing people save on are discretionary spending.

Another reason why new ballparks have fewer seats and more luxury suites.

to me, six years is a long-term deal

That’s fair…for ARod, I don’t think it is.  Given his athletic ability, and offensive ability, it is likely that in years 5 and 6 he’s still be an above average hitter at any position, and probably an average to above average fielder at first, or corner outfield.  And true at that age he wouldn’t be worth it, but you also have to wonder if in years 1 and 2 he’ll be paid less than he’s worth in those years.  IOW, if it would be like deferred payment.  If the Yankees continue to be smarter about contracts, having ARod be overpaid in year six won’t hurt.

A-Rod left because he wanted more money than the ridiculous sum he had on the table, and more than the ridiculous extension the Yanks would offer him.

True, but what IF he fires Boras and publicly states that yes, it was his fault, but he trusted his agent and that trust was misplaced?  Would it then be OK for a slight raise on that offer?  I doubt the Yankees thought of their offer as final at the time, they just weren’t willing to start at what Boras was asking for.

I’m not trying to argue, I’m trying to debate.  You have sound reasoning, I just think you’re being a little too inflexible is all.  ARod is pretty unique, after all.

but yeah, i guess A-Rod has the power to poison an entire generation of players and change all of their personalities.  look out!!

You mean you didn’t hear?  He’s also responsible for all the discord in the Mid-East.

A-Rod is unique, but the Yanks would do well to not overpay him.  This should be easy because as it looks now, the Yanks hold all the cards.  Teams aren’t lining up to pay him 10/300 or anything like what Boras predicted.

I think the Yanks could make the case to A-Rod that if you take deal A, which is the amount that we would have owed you before you opted out, then the media and fan base will accept you more readily.  I’m sure A-Rod understands that having the Yankee fan base and media off his ass will make it easier for him in the long run.

I don’t think the Yanks front office should be too accomodating.  Players know that MLB is a business, which is why they hire agents to get them the most money they can.  I doubt A-Rod would be insulted if the Yanks didn’t offer him a raise in this situation.

They love him and look to him as a mentor?  Where’d you read that?

i heard it all season watching every game.

are you really saying you did not hear this storyline all season?

do other people here think this was not fairly widely reported?  maybe i am losing my mind.  it’s possible.

I’m in Virginia, so I can’t watch too many games.  And I refuse to pay for the MLB package.  Maybe the announcers have touted it.  If so, I don’t think that’s a great situation.

I see nothing in A-Rod’s character that would make him a great mentor.

If he can help them hit better, then great.  But how to play the game, how to approach the game, and how to deal with the fans, media and team - no. 

I’d rather have a good hitting coach and veterans who will teach the rooks that there is more to baseball than “me,” which is all what A-Rod’s about.

Again, I could be wrong, but tell me one ex-teammate of A-Rod’s, just one, that was sorry to see him go.  Not his production mind you, A-Rod himself.

The line I heard was that the Yanks’ young players, Cano and Melky among them, were impressed by A-Rod’s insatiable work ethic - especially as he already had the big contract and was not resting on his proverbial laurels.  I also heard that Melky adopted A-Rod’s strength training regimen at some point and the former did seem to lose a bit of his baby fat over the course of the season.

Mattingly was on Michael Kay’s show last weekend and he lauded A-Rod for his work ethic and great leadership of the younger players.

Anyway, Arod issued a statement via his website:

“After spending time with Cynthia and my family over these last few weeks, it became clear to me that I needed to make an attempt to engage the Yankees regarding my future with the organization.

Prior to entering into serious negotiations with other clubs, I wanted the opportunity to share my thoughts directly with Yankees’ ownership. We know there are other opportunities for us, but Cynthia and I have a foundation with the club that has brought us comfort, stability and happiness.

As a result, I reached out to the Yankees through mutual friends and conveyed that message. I also understand that I had to respond to certain Yankees concerns, and I was receptive and understanding of that situation.

Cynthia and I have since spoken directly with the Steinbrenner family. During these healthy discussions, both sides were able to share honest feelings and hopes with one another, and we expect to continue this dialogue with the Yankees over the next few days. ”

yup,

we must have drank the same koolaid, b/c i remember it too.  To the point where I felt like it was becoming “arod’s team” moreso than “jeter’s team”.

The only reason A-Rod would do this (besides just plain old-fashioned love of the Yankees) is that this would be one of the great public relations coup.

It’s always seemed to me that Posada carries more weight than Jeter, especially as he’s far more willing to show some emotion and criticize the team publicly if he feels something is not quite right.

As for A-Rod, I’d really love to see the Yanks trim a few years off any prospective deal.  After all, how many other clubs are going to line up to pay him $30 million when he’s 41 years old?  Also, I’m not sure A-Rod getting the Yanks involved will drive up the price for other teams - who will pay what they want or what they imagine he’s worth regardless and don’t really intend to outbid the Yanks in any case.  A-Rod simply realizes he can’t get more money anywhere else, which should have been rather obvious.  Will another team go above 7/210?  I’d seriously have my doubts.  The Yanks have some leverage here, they may as well use it.  That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t also kick the tires on Rolen and see whether they can get him for some lesser guys like Horne or Brett Gardner.

For luxury tax issues, would it make sense to pay Arod a reasonable amount in 2008, then dump a truck of cash on him in 2009 (while the kids, wang and cano are still cheap) and then go back to a normal yearly average?  I never understood why contracts are backloaded, especially w/ veterans.

This story has to have some traction if A-rod is putting out a statement. It sounds pretty friendly toward the organization. I know there are a lot of hurdles, but it sounds pretty promising for the moment. Will the MVP presentation coincide with another announcement? Stay tuned. And by the way Mo, please just sign the ____ contract?

Lowell is supposedly looked at now as a possible answer to our first base situation. Long shot I’d say, but likely will get Boston off their stance. If Youk can play both first and third well, I think Lowell could too. It’s just that he is so popular in beantown right now and probably happy with the Sox, that a more likely scenario has the Red Sox upping their offer and retaining him.

Before I get stomped, I’m not sure about Youk’s fielding ability at third but didn’t he play first rather well?

OK, I’ll chime in with the Red-zone perspective.

Works for me. He wasn’t coming to Boston anyway, and resigning with the Yankees does a couple things. One, no slew of draft picks from the team that signed him. When I look at Buchholz sitting there, representing a draft pick from missing out on Pedro’s injury years a mere three years later, I say this can’t be underestimated.

Second, the Yanks look pretty similar to last season if they do this. I don’t see them signing Posada, A-Rod and Mo all for mega deals, and then doing Santana or Cabrera. Could be wrong… but if the Yankees get off the market in November, it makes life easier for teams still doing things. Now, I am not assuming the same Boston team beats the same Yankee team again; the breaks have a way of shifting back and forth from year to year. But I’ll take my chances with the known quantity and hope for improvements or breaks on our end.

Finally, I am not into semantics; the statistics say that A-Rod helps the Yankees and I buy it. So it’s a good signing for you guys (if it happens). But it just doesn’t scare me. A-Rod is streaky, and as long as we don’t face him in every one of his red-hot phases, it won’t be a huge problem for us. if the Yankees are 10 games better next year, so be it, but we aren’t missing the playoffs regardless. Game on!

First time post after lurking for a while. I enjoy following the Yankees & hereby promise never to talk shit. Just not that kind of fan.

I think that the 11/4 NYTimes article by the law professor may have been right: that A-Rod meant to come back to the Yankees all along, or at least have that option. (I was surprised there wasn’t more talk about the article at the time.)

I agree with SAS in #21 that there’s been just a load of bluffing on both sides here. Boras and A-Rod may have overestimated the market, even just in trying to drive up the price with the Yanks. But to me the idea that A-Rod is pissed off at or breaking with Boras is very, very dubious. Let’s see A-Rod fire him if that’s true. What hit does Boras take if A-Rod uses him as an excuse for the last few weeks of pissing off Yankee fans? Is anyone going to think he’s any more of an asshole? He’s already hated/feared/respected to the max. He says to A-Rod, “Just tell them I did it and let the Yankees posture by saying that I can’t be in the room. Make me the villain.” The only real mistake, I think, was putting that $350m number out there. No one was going to pay that.

Anyway, it’s not unheard of for Boras not to get what he wanted and said he could get. He was talking $15m and more a year just in salary for Matsuzaka and seven years for Damon. So what if they’re not getting it, though? Start at 10/275, end up at 10/290 or something…maybe even shave off years for higher average salary. But I doubt it’s going to go below 8 years. There’s no way he’s going to get 10/350 anywhere else, but 8/240? Angels or even the Sox might contemplate such a thing. As several mentioned, $30m might not be so astronomical in 2014/5. Unless baseball’s really taken down hard by scandals—and I don’t see that unless something unforeseen is in the works with Mitchell.

“I never understood why contracts are backloaded, especially w/ veterans.”

I think it’s so they are difficult trade if they want to avoid going to bad teams.

Also, I hope Boras is duct taped to some chair in a janitor’s closet right now.

I don’t know how many people feel the same way I do, but I’ll continue to be quite suspicious until an actual deal is done.  After all, sometime in late October there was a story about how A-Rod might not let Boras use the opt-out clause.  Well, that certainly didn’t pan out.  This story has a certain logic, i.e., A-Rod wants the most money and the Yanks have the most money, but A-Rod eating a bit of public crow to keep the lines of communication open with the Yanks is simply good business regardless of whether he eventually signs.

Contracts are also backloaded because a dollar today is worth more than a dollar a few or many years down the road.  Thus, it’s also cheaper.

Olney sheds some more light on the A-Rod situation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3109894

For luxury tax issues, would it make sense to pay Arod a reasonable amount in 2008, then dump a truck of cash on him in 2009 (while the kids, wang and cano are still cheap) and then go back to a normal yearly average?

Makes no difference for luxury tax purposes, unless they’re separate one year contracts.  The tax is based on the average annual value of the contract, not the yearly payouts.

IE,  I hear what you are saying and it’s a reasonable position. To me, it’s very clear that A-rod does care about his image and it has taken a beating the past month. I find it dubious that he would compound the issue at this point by publishing a non-sincere statement on this website today. If this breaks down at this point, I would be surprised. I think Cashman and the owners realize the upside to having the game’s best player opening the new stadium.  I really don’t think he wants to tar and feather himself even more in the media at this juncture by jerking the team around. I guess we will soon know. Feinsand predicts a contract by the weekend.

If A-Rod signs with the Yankees at something ‘reasonable’ (along the lines of the extension they were willing to give him), I’ll be happy.  The Yankees go into 2008 with pretty much the same team they went into 2007 with, which was pretty damn godo when you remove all those innings pitched by Karstens, Igawa, Clippard, DeSalvo, etc.

What I don’t understand is why A-Rod continues to keep shooting his image in the face.  He puts together an awesome 2007, highlighted by several clutch moments (wasn’t his 9th inning OPS really high?), and nobody was pointing fingers during the playoffs.  The Yankees come at him with a $150MM extension, and while that might not be the absolute highest the market could bear, it’s clearly a very solid offer.

Why… not… just… TAKE IT?  He was loved in New York.  All except the most moronic of fans knew how much stronger he made the team.  Everything was already in place to lead the next generation of Yankee studs (Chamberlain, Hughes, et al) for the next several years. 

Instead he opts out.  During the World Series.  Not available for any calls.  Boras does his blowhard routine.  Column after column about “who would spend $300MM on someone that has fewer world series rings than Mike Lowell?” 

Maybe he’ll come back to the Yankees, and like I said, I hope he does if only because they are a better team with him, no matter how many gritty/gutsy/clutch/insert-meaningless-adjective-here players they sign in his place.  But I was really hoping to see A-Rod finally go from the The Aloof Mercenary to The True Yankee.  Maybe he’ll win another two MVPs and win back the hearts of New York.  For his sake, I hope that’s all it takes.

I find it dubious that he would compound the issue at this point by publishing a non-sincere statement on this website today.

there is no way he makes that statement if this wasn’t getting done.

compound that with Hank’s statements?

he’s coming back.

the contract will make me wince, but i am happy to have his bat and i am happy to not have to trade the blue chippers for a 3Bman.

Nate, I honestly think this is Boras fault. A-Rod got bad advice from his agent, and now wants to show some good faith.

Has anyone else heard that the third party involved may be Kevin Long? If so, give that man raise.

One, no slew of draft picks from the team that signed him. When I look at Buchholz sitting there, representing a draft pick from missing out on Pedro’s injury years a mere three years later, I say this can’t be underestimated.

SSF, i respect your opinion, but this is a huge reach.

of course every star player was once a draft pick (or internation FA), but for every Buchholz there are 20 Bards/Hansens.

A-Rod is one of the greatest players to ever live.

the draft picks are not even a tiny concern in this deal.  especially with the Yankees’ ability to get 1st round talent later in the draft.

Anyway, it’s not unheard of for Boras not to get what he wanted and said he could get.

Agreed. Why do people talk about him like he’s magic? Why are attorneys or agents ever viewed as “powerful”? I don’t see what he does to separate teams from their money that’s any different from other agents, apart from putting his propaganda into books. Do teams feel compelled to listen to him because of his name? Or because of his clientele? Could they possibly be this stupid? I know there are nuances to how a contract is written, but it seems to me that Boras’ clients sign for the highest dollar virtually all the time, whether the team had a bad time with Boras’ last client or not. And it seems to me that teams should be able to look past the agent and say, this is the player, this is what we’re willing to spend. If Boras comes up with an argument to pressure them more, I can’t understand why that’s unique to him.

Agents and attorneys aren’t powerful if people can manage to see them for what they are: mouthpieces. If the client is powerful, fair enough. But the agent? These guys are completely transparent.

Yup, I’m not equating draft picks with vets, I hear your point. But they ARE valuable, and I think a number of people here were resigned to turning the page on Alex and looking forward to getting the picks. Obviously to the Yankees you don’t turn down extending him and hold out for the draft picks. but they’re not nothing, and since I take the long view, seeing the Yankees’ farm system completely restocked wasn’t something I looked forward to.

Who are the Seattle Sox and why are you a fan of them?

But they ARE valuable, and I think a number of people here were resigned to turning the page on Alex and looking forward to getting the picks.

well sure.  i LOVE the draft.  love having the picks.

but it was small consolation for me to say, well we just got 6-8 wins worse next year, but in 2012 someone we drafted in 2008 may or may not be a good player!

i’m pretty patient as a fan, but not THAT patient…

Who are the Seattle Sox and why are you a fan of them?

Since the Heath Slocumb deal, we consider the Mariners a wholly-owned subsidiary.

According to Mark Feinsand’s blog on the Daily News, A-Rod’s contract is going to be resolved sooner rather than later - making my cynicism a bit misplaced, although entirely justified if I do say so.  If this indeed happens and once Mariano stops whining and signs the most generous deal being offered, the rest of the off season may very well be sleepy indeed.  After all, if A-Rod is at 3rd that means Betemit and Duncan can platoon at 1B with a bit of Giambi on the side.  The only thing left will be perhaps a reliever of some sort but there’s no indication it will be Cordero.

Are there really people complaining about A-Rod coming back to the team? We’ve spent the last week filled with angst about whether or not Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy should be available for a trade for Miguel Cabrera to Miguel Tejada. We’re getting an inner circle HOFer in his prime for nothing but money. All Yankees fans should be doing flips down the street. And yes, A-Rod was more integrated into the team last year. Melky, Cano and A-Rod had their little dugout dance, the bullpen razzing him by imitating his stretching of his injured shoulder after every home run he hit. We’re going to be watching this guy break Barry Bond’s home run record in pinstripes. I can’t fathom how any Yankees fan can be against A-Rod coming back.

No kudos for John M?

I don’t know.  To me, A-Rod without Boras just isn’t A-Rod.  I wouldn’t do it.

Does this mean the Yanks will someday have to sign Jeter through HIS age 41 season?