So you’re saying we might as well hop off that ledge now?

Chance of making playoffs, 18%
Rotation imploding
Bullpen imploding
Not ready to hop off that ledge yet but the ground is more inviting than the ladder

SG, can you add a chart showing the increases in next year’s ticket prices, too?

“SG, can you add a chart showing the increases in next year’s ticket prices, too?”

NYC suicide rates too please?

It’s just a flesh wound

Could you add a chart showing payload to airspeed velocity ratios?

Some jackass just offered me a pair of tier box tickets to the final Yankees game this season for $1,000.  And no, I’m not talking about the clinching game of the WS.

Some jackass just offered me a pair of tier box tickets to the final Yankees game this season for $1,000.  And no, I’m not talking about the clinching game of the WS.

How can you pass up a chance to see win # 81?

Hey, if you’ve got a grand to spare, I can give you the address to send the check to!

we could still potentially become sellers couldnt we? lets just start putting people on waivers and see what we can get.

When might we get word on Joba?

My prediction is that we will get word on Joba about 30 seconds before I start weeping inconsolably.

we could still potentially become sellers couldnt we? lets just start putting people on waivers and see what we can get.

This is the first sensible idea I’ve heard all day. We can get something for Giambi, Mussina and Abreu, and none of them are in our plans for next year. Let’s give up the ghost - 2008 ain’t our year.

Some jackass just offered me a pair of tier box tickets to the final Yankees game this season for $1,000.  And no, I’m not talking about the clinching game of the WS.

That’s what, 8 or 10 times face-value?  I suppose twice face-value could still be worth it (if you had that kind of cash to spare), for being at the final game and all that.  Hmm…how much would you be willing to play if that game were the one to decide if they made the playoffs?  Too bad we don’t know now…

It’s more than 10 times, those tickets are normally $45 apiece, cheaper if you have a season plan, which this guy does.  That’s just absurd. 

Hmm…how much would you be willing to play if that game were the one to decide if they made the playoffs?  Too bad we don’t know now…

2x face value tops.

Dumb and Dumber, Monty Python, and Seinfeld references from SG all in one post?  I anoint this the greatest thread of all time, even with the lack of pie charts.

We can get something for Giambi, Mussina and Abreu, and none of them are in our plans for next year.

True…IF they wave their NTC’s.  And even then, could we get more back than the draft-picks they are likely to be worth (Abreu is probably still an ‘A’, Giambi and Moose may yet be ‘Bs’)?  Eh.  I think they will likely be put on waivers, I think it is also likely the only one to make it through (Giambi), and likely then the Yankees wouldn’t get much for them.

That smiley wasn’t intentional BTW…

I can live without seeing the Yanks in the postseason.  Every team needs to rebuild or retool at some time, so that’s no big deal.  Plus, as constructed today, I doubt the Yanks could make it past the first round even if they made the playoffs.

I’d be pretty pissed to see Joba miss a significant amount of time due to injury.  I’d be even worse if he needs surgery.

I can only hope Joba just needs some Ben Gay and a lot of rest.  I can only hope Hughes puts things together this year and can end the season on a high note: a couple of good starts for the Yanks.

I’d love to see three high-ceiling homegrown pitchers anchoring the 2009 rotation: Wang, Joba and Hughes.  Kennedy making the rotation would be a bonus.  Melancon could be ready for the BP next year, adding another arm to a deep pen.

I dare to dream.

This is the first sensible idea I’ve heard all day. We can get something for Giambi, Mussina and Abreu, and none of them are in our plans for next year. Let’s give up the ghost - 2008 ain’t our year

you are forgetting there is the potential to reap a sh*tload of draft picks from those guys. 

probably not Giambi, but if the Yankees ARE going to let Moose go (and i don’t think that’s a given), he and Abreu are certainly candidates for draft pick compensation.

i don’t think you will get better value in trade at this point in the season.

also, why would Mussina clear waivers?  he wouldn’t. 

so, it probably isn’t that sensible at all.

too slow

I’d rather have Giambi, Abreu and Rodriguez walk and get the draft picks.  That would be up to six extra picks.  Coupled with the Yanks own picks, that would be up to eight picks through the first two rounds.  With the way Oppenheimer and Cashman operate via the draft, I’d love to see what they could do with all those extra picks.

i agree with Yatt.  the future of Joba is more important to me than making the postseason this year.

the reports on hughes’ “stuff” have been very positive.

i could live with shutting Joba down for the rest of the year and being confident he’s OK for 2009, paired with some promising September starts from Hughes, and missing the playoffs.

With all the competetive races out there I think we could get prospects >>> the potential draft picks. Even if Moose didnt clear waivers a deal could still be worked out…or you take him back.

—-2x face value tops.—-

That’s just not realistic though.  12 dollar pleacher seats become double that for the first round of the playoffs, and i THINK wind up around 40 face for the WS.  any scalped playoff ticket is probably going to get 2x face. 

This is the LAST game to ever be played at yankee stadium (assuming no playoffs).  it’s also a sunday night game, so you can spend all day tailgating, celebrating, etc. 

even rich casual fans are going to buyers for this game.  rich people outside of the city migth be willing to come back for this game.  it’s a once in a lifetime event.

take a look at stubhub.  prices are going up….especially when the yankees lose and lessen their chance for the playoffs.

also, SG, this post should have had something about the yankees “Pontooning the Season”

I hope we sign CC and Teixera and they are going to be type A FA’s. So, if they let go Abreu and Pudge that both should be type A, then we don’t loose picks by signing them.

do we lose the draft picks for just putting someone on waivers? if thats the case I take it all back. If not I do not see the harm in gauging what is out there.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=4455&line=246089&spln=1

Kennedy taking Joba’s turn, no surprise really. Thank God no Livan sightings yet.

I agree with most of the posts, I’d be content missing the playoffs if we get positives from IPK/Hughes, but success from those 2 would probably increase our playoff odds so, they aren’t necessarily exclusive.

And I hate Dr. James Andrews. I have a friend named James Andrews and I mock him all the time when players go down with arm injuries.

even rich casual fans are going to buyers for this game.  rich people outside of the city migth be willing to come back for this game.  it’s a once in a lifetime event.

Sadly, I think that for that precise reason, most people at the final game aren’t going to be the real Yankee fans.  There already aren’t that many of them, but these absurd final game prices are going to drive the rest away.

We can get something for Giambi, Mussina and Abreu, and none of them are in our plans for next year

I’m not so sure how true this is. I think Abreu’s time is certainly up (as soon as Damon is healthy enough to play the field he should be shopped), but I don’t see the harm in seeing if Giambi will take a 1 year contract, especially since I don’t see the Yankees getting Teixiera. Also, I think the Yankees bring one of Moose or Andy back. I’d prefer Moose.

“Sadly, I think that for that precise reason, most people at the final game aren’t going to be the real Yankee fans.  There already aren’t that many of them, but these absurd final game prices are going to drive the rest away.”

Clearly only fake yankee fans would pay market value for the last game in the house that Ruth built.

—-Clearly only fake yankee fans would pay market value for the last game in the house that Ruth built.—-

There are two markets though….the price that “real” fans would pay, and the price that “people who want to be seen / have the status of goign to the last game” are willing to pay.  and there are enough in the latter group to scoop up the vast majority of the tickets. 

i’m hoping the bleachers will be “real” fans…....even though those tickets were crazy expensive too.

Clearly only fake yankee fans would pay market value for the last game in the house that Ruth built.

He mentioned casual rich fans.  Don’t be a you-know-who.

Joba- NOOOO!  It should have been Hughes.

we got no run production, nobody reliable outta the pen… our LOOGYS’ HEADS ARE FALLING OFF!

With all the competetive races out there I think we could get prospects >>> the potential draft picks.

perhaps.  and you are right, there is no harm in assessing the market.

but the decision isn’t just the prospects vs. the draft picks.

there is also a “cost” to throwing in the towel.  what if the Rays go into a slide and lose 10 games in a row in September, but the Yankees are now in no place to capitalize? 

they are 3.5 games out of a playoff spot.  the worst case scenario is the draft picks.

i think i’d choose “keep fighting and get draft picks” vs. “give up and get prospects”.

the Yankees would save salary in the second scenario, but i don’t think that would factor into their decision.

i understand that there will be people there for the sake of being there because they can afford it. I just dont think its fair to say that “real” yankee fans won’t be there.

There is only one market…the one that the prices are selling at. This “real” fan market does not exist but it would be cool if it did. Imagine that…“answer these trivia questions and name your top ten favorite yankees for the REAL fan price”...Damn supply and demand

we could still potentially become sellers couldnt we? lets just start putting people on waivers and see what we can get.

If Joba goes on the DL we can’t trade him, right?

“perhaps.  and you are right, there is no harm in assessing the market.”

yeah thats all im saying. Maybe the marlins are TB would salivate at the idea of adding a veteran starter (or in the marlins case..pudge ha) and would throw something crazy at us like a david price….

highly highly unlikely…but speculating is fun..thats the second reason we are here

The first…to emotionally support eachother while we all contemplate suicide because this team is bipolar.

The first…to emotionally support eachother while we all contemplate suicide because this team is bipolar.

Bingo.  Peace and love, everybody.

There are two markets though….the price that “real” fans would pay, and the price that “people who want to be seen / have the status of goign to the last game” are willing to pay.  and there are enough in the latter group to scoop up the vast majority of the tickets. 

but there is a third set:

diehard yankee fans who happen to earn a lot of money.

i think that is what dcristal was saying.

why does your level of fandom have to be inversely proportional to your income?

i am not a member of this lucky subset, but if i won the lottery tomorrow, i’d like to think i would still be a “real” fan.  and i would pay through the nose for those tickets.

My only hope for this season is that the Red Sox don’t win it all. I know I’m sounding like a Sox fan, but I just can’t stand them anymore.

The draft-picks issue is something I hadn’t considered. No harm in shopping around to see if we can get some talent that’s closer to the majors, but no reason to dump anyone for nothing if the draft picks are worth more than the trade return.  I guess we might have a hard time getting Mussina to clear waivers; less so Abreu and (especially) Giambi. And we’re probably talking the in wrong tense, anyway. I would hope that Cashman has already placed everybody on waivers and has seen who cleared and who didn’t

Joba is seeing Andrews today.  My guess is we won’t hear anything until close to gametime.  Grumble.

—-There is only one market…the one that the prices are selling at. This “real” fan market does not exist but it would be cool if it did. Imagine that…“answer these trivia questions and name your top ten favorite yankees for the REAL fan price”...Damn supply and demand—-

Well it wasn’t that long ago that World Series tickets were sold to people who camped out all night at the stadium.  Those were fun times, and it promoted “real fans” into getting tickets. 

And i think that if you were super rich, you’d become less of a fan.  there would be more opportunities for you to enjoy your time.  not saying rich people CAN’T be real fans, but i think there’s a correlation to fanatic and lack of “crazy money”.

Three things lead me to believe this is bad:

1) they are not saying a single word about it
2) the fact that Joba himself went to go see Andrews instead of just having the doc read the MRI
and to a lessor extent
3) jobas previous injury concerns

So if i decrease my fanaticism I can have “crazy money?”

And I hate Dr. James Andrews. I have a friend named James Andrews and I mock him all the time when players go down with arm injuries.

And now karma.

i am not a member of this lucky subset, but if i won the lottery tomorrow, i’d like to think i would still be a “real” fan.  and i would pay through the nose for those tickets.

Heck, if I win enough I’m moving to the Carolinas, and would probably *still* buy field-level season tickets (infield) to the Yankees.  AND I’d probably still find a way to get to at least 30-40 games (you guys can have the rest )!

I think there are LOTS of rich people who are real fans.  They’re just not taken as seriously because they also happen to show up at major events that they’re team isn’t in since, well, they can afford them.

I mean, I hope not.

When they were up 3-0, I was really, really feeling good about our chances.  Then, it has all gone to hell.  In the span of 20 minutes, everything fell to shit.  It is sort of remarkable.

The Yankees are three and a half back of the Wild Card, and everyone’s ready to jump?  Come on.

And now karma.

And he’s an O’s fan, I should have figured he’d be vengeful.
I hope Joba forgives me.

I’m not ready to jump, but the race to the playoffs just got a lot harder without Joba - whether he’s gone for two starts or the rest of the year. 

I can’t see them being able to make up ground on Boston/TB with a rotation of Pettitte/Mussina/Ponson/IPK/Rasner/Giese, etc.

The Yankees are three and a half back of the Wild Card, and everyone’s ready to jump?  Come on.

Seconded.

When they were up 3-0, I was really, really feeling good about our chances.  Then, it has all gone to hell.  In the span of 20 minutes, everything fell to shit.

Wait, they went up 3-0 almost 4 years ago now.

“Pettitte/Mussina/Ponson/IPK/Rasner/Giese, etc.”

I literally threw up in my mouth when I read that.

Maybe its time to put Damon in CF and let Sexson DH off his ABs last night.  Is it my imagination or has it been a while since Arod got a big hit?

I can’t see them being able to make up ground on Boston/TB with a rotation of Pettitte/Mussina/Ponson/IPK/Rasner/Giese, etc.

Papi may be hurt. Tampa can’t hit. And there’s still some offensive potential in this lineup that has yet to show up. IF (big, big if) the middle infield remembers who they are for the last two months, they can win 66% of their remaining games, IF (another big, big if) Kennedy comes up and pitches well. Heck, we may even see Hughes soon. So year, it’s a long shot, but it’s really not close to being time to sell.

Things to learn from this thread:

-Dr. James Andrews is an Orioles fan
-Rich people deserve to die and go to Hell, or at least, a very lengthy stay in the worst part of Purgatory.
-Joba Chamberlain’s career is over and his shoulder is dangling by a single, disgusting thread of sinew.
-The Yankees should put all their players on irrevocable waivers and start anew with Austin Jackson and Brett Gardner leading the way.

Did I miss anything?

Is it my imagination or has it been a while since Arod got a big hit?

no, he is definitely slumping. 

there has to be something mechanical there b/c outside of that one rope that hung up for Hamilton on Monday, he has hit almost every ball on the ground to 3B.  same thing over and over.  it’s wierd.

it’s like when Matsui gets in a rut and can’t do anything but ground to 2B.

——i am not a member of this lucky subset, but if i won the lottery tomorrow, i’d like to think i would still be a “real” fan.  and i would pay through the nose for those tickets.

Heck, if I win enough I’m moving to the Carolinas, and would probably *still* buy field-level season tickets (infield) to the Yankees.  AND I’d probably still find a way to get to at least 30-40 games (you guys can have the rest )!

I think there are LOTS of rich people who are real fans.  They’re just not taken as seriously because they also happen to show up at major events that they’re team isn’t in since, well, they can afford them.
——

But would you actually feel sick to your stomach w/ a Yankees loss?  Or spend your day posting on this message board?  or go to games when the yankees are rebuilding? 

Yes, there are definitely some rich people who fit that bill.  But most don’t.  If you have less free time to devote to being a fan, your fanactism drops.  rich people tend to have less free time.  even in a lottery winning situation.

Did I miss anything?

Jeter has turned into a worse version of Tony Womack and will never be good again.

And i think that if you were super rich, you’d become less of a fan.  there would be more opportunities for you to enjoy your time.  not saying rich people CAN’T be real fans, but i think there’s a correlation to fanatic and lack of “crazy money”.

They may not be as involved in knowing the roster, and have different other ways to spend their time. So, in that sense they may not be real fanatics as you put it.

That, however, does not make them any less deserving in terms of buying tickets than the so-called “real” fans.

Think about it this way. Yankees are probably a national team playing in New York. As such, there would be a lot of fans, who are much better informed about the Yankees than the average New Yorker who cannot go to these games simply because they do not live in New York. Do you think the Yankees should make an exception and subsidize tickets for these fans, simply because they are better informed than the average New Yorker than shows up during the game?

Some of these people will have the means to make the trip to New York and see the game paying high prices. Would you really begrudge them because they could afford to pay a higher price, and label them “not real fans”?

But would you actually feel sick to your stomach w/ a Yankees loss?  Or spend your day posting on this message board?  or go to games when the yankees are rebuilding? 

yes. 

but i understand the argument that most people in that hypothetical scenario would not.  the people on this site are the most obsessive of the obsessed subset of fans.  think about how much time SG devotes to making a post comparing Jarrod Washburn to Sidney Ponson.  i would guess that 99% of “real” fans don’t even care about details like this.

it would be hard for one of us to just let go of that.

rich people tend to have less free time

don’t rich people have MORE free time than the guy who has to work 2 jobs?  i am not saying you are wrong, but it feels counter-intuitive.  wouldn’t rich people have more leisure time?

We need us another All-Star break.

Seriously now, I see comments about Girardi mismanaging the bullpen. How well can the bullpen be managed well when your starters serve up 5, 6 runs and can’t get past the 5th inning ? You can manage that every couple of games, but if your starters do it enough times in a row…

And I’ll take Ponson’s last start over everyone else’s last outing, thank you very much.

I just don’t think we have a legitimate ace on the staff. We have a nice collection of 4 and 5 pitchers, and no anchors on the staff. And it was that way before Wang got hurt, too.

On the topic of double-plays, is it possible to come up with the number of baserunners, or baserunners in force-out positions for each player’s plate appearances ? Does Jeter have more GIDP than, say, ARod, since he’s been “clearing the bases”... What’s the ratio of times ARod comes to bat with runners on versus no runners ? It feels like I see ARod leading off in more innings any anyone other than perhaps Damon.

I watched a replay of the Giants super bowl win last night and realized, I can’t whine about the sports scene this year. Even with a frustrating yankees team.

That being said, this is a pretty damn frustrating team to watch.

Also, apparently it’s not just against the yankees that rookie pitchers pitch like Cy Young, at least the Angels and O’s have similar complaints on their forums. Most recently because of the 8 inning, 1 h 3 bb performance of John Waters. Let’s pray the O’s don’t pitch him against us.

don’t rich people have MORE free time than the guy who has to work 2 jobs?  i am not saying you are wrong, but it feels counter-intuitive.  wouldn’t rich people have more leisure time?

No, don’t you get it? Rich people are all hard working, up-by-your-bootstraps self made dynamos. Poor people are all lazy, slovenly welfare exploiters who spend their government assistance checks on plasma TVs that they use to watch soap operas and sports all day.

In a year of WOEful offense against mediocre pitchers last night’s starter was one of the worst to shut us down until we made our pseudo comeback against a reliever about to have an arm operation.  Tonight’s Texas starte has an era near 11-maybe we can outdo ourselves

—-don’t rich people have MORE free time than the guy who has to work 2 jobs?  i am not saying you are wrong, but it feels counter-intuitive.  wouldn’t rich people have more leisure time?

—-

I meant “free time” as in “unused time”.  Paris Hilton tanning on some yaht is “used” time. 

—-Some of these people will have the means to make the trip to New York and see the game paying high prices. Would you really begrudge them because they could afford to pay a higher price, and label them “not real fans”?—-

Those aren’t the people i was bregrudging (actually, i wasn’t begruding anyone.  I jumped in discussing the market for the tickets).  But, when I’m at a game I prefer the people around me to be cheering as opposed to sitting on their hands.  Knowledge of the game is definitely an added bonus, but as long as they aren’t booing arod b/c he isn’t clutch, i’m ok with ignorant bliss.  I feel like you are doing the team a disservice if you aren’t as loud as you can be.  HFA and all. 

The last game will have elements of a Super Bowl crowd.  Heck, the past few years the playoff crowds have even been a bit of a letdown.

I just don’t think we have a legitimate ace on the staff. We have a nice collection of 4 and 5 pitchers, and no anchors on the staff. And it was that way before Wang got hurt, too.

this is absurd.

Joba was one of the best pitchers in the league before he got hurt.

and i’d love to hear the argument that Wang is a 4 or 5 starter. 

or Mussina.

Joba had the makings of a #1, Wang is a #2, Pettitte and Moose are #3 starters AT WORST.

honestly, i have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you think the Yankees should make an exception and subsidize tickets for these fans, simply because they are better informed than the average New Yorker than shows up during the game?

yes, then I could go to a game.

last night was really a microcosm of the season for me althought i admittedly didnt watch the whole thing. Starter falls behind early, double plays to end 3 or 4 innings, a big hit from someone unlikely to give a slight pulse, and a GIDP from the best player on the planet to end the game.

Will Carrol’s latest:

The Yankees are sending Chamberlain and his test results to Pensacola to be reviewed by Dr. Jim Andrews. I keep having to explain to people that this isn’t necessarily bad; that if the Yankees were sure he needed surgery, it’s more likely that they would have kept him in New York with Dave Altchek. We’ll know more after the visit, but indications are that Chamberlain has some damage, but that surgery is not an immediate indication. So far the Yankees are only willing to say that Chamberlain will miss his next start, but they’re also giving off signs that Chamberlain will need to go onto the DL. The biggest worry is the location of the pain: while the team is insisting that the center of the shoulder is good, that’s still one location where referred pain shows up for the labrum.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Sometimes I hate baseball.

honestly, i have no idea what you are talking about.

I have no idea what your talking about… wait. yes I do. that other guy is crazy.

Really, all I care about rigth now is Joba.  If Joba is back I think the season will play out in an interesting manner.  I’d rather not make the playoffs if it means we go in without Posada, Joba, and Wang.  I dont want to give other teams the satisfaction of beating the worst team we could possibly field.

On the topic of double-plays, is it possible to come up with the number of baserunners, or baserunners in force-out positions for each player’s plate appearances ? Does Jeter have more GIDP than, say, ARod

It is.  See previous post for a link to GIDP rates.

i hate the “wang is not an ace” crowd. My definition of Ace:

Wins games
Strikes people out
Pitches lots of innings
Stops losing streaks
Completes games

feel free to add whatever (i know someone is going to mention last years cleveland series) but wang has all of those attributes less the strikes outs (which he was improving drastically this year and the end of last with the emergence of his slider)

I’d rather not make the playoffs if it means we go in without Posada, Joba, and Wang.  I dont want to give other teams the satisfaction of beating the worst team we could possibly field.

I disagree, if the Yanks make the playoffs with everything that has happened, it will be an incredible season, even if they’re bounced in three games.

also. I spells good.

I can see someone arguing moose is a 4 or 5 starter. Not based off of this year’s stats alone but combining the past few and projecting a decline based on his age. I have no idea if that’d even be valid, I’m just saying I could understand if someone was making that argument.

While we’re talking about tickets, why don’t they give free teleporters to people 4+ hours away who can’t drive to games after work? And free beer once we get there.

I’d rather not make the playoffs if it means we go in without Posada, Joba, and Wang.  I dont want to give other teams the satisfaction of beating the worst team we could possibly field.

if Joba were OK, i’d gladly take my chances with Joba, Moose, and Pettitte.

but yeah, if Joba is out, that would pretty much suck.

the way this season has gone, it would be fitting that this is the year they go deep into the playoffs without 3 of their best players.

here is the most frustrating thing about this season:  every team has injuries.  but if i had to choose the four players on the entire roster i would least want to get injured, it would be A-Rod, Posada, Joba, and Wang (with Mo close behind). 

that sucks.

Not based off of this year’s stats alone but combining the past few and projecting a decline based on his age.

I doubt his projection going forward will be that of a 4th starter, he’s got this year and 06, which will easily outweigh his 07, I think he’ll project on that 2/3 line (110 ERA+). His peripherals are strong this year too (4th in the AL in SO/BB ratio), so I think the age decline will be balanced by that.

don’t rich people have MORE free time than the guy who has to work 2 jobs?  i am not saying you are wrong, but it feels counter-intuitive.  wouldn’t rich people have more leisure time?

There are 2 contrary effects for a richer person that affect their leisure time. One is the sustitution effect, this one explains that when a person is richer they work more time and have less leisure time because they are more productive; the second effect is the income effect, this one explains that because that person got richer he doesn’t have to work that many hours and then he has more leisure time. So depends on what effect dominates the richer person is going to have more or less leisure time.

CP, I agree, I was just trying to figure out one way he may not have been totally crazy.

I’d rather not make the playoffs if it means we go in without Posada, Joba, and Wang.  I dont want to give other teams the satisfaction of beating the worst team we could possibly field.

I do not agree with this because everything could happen in the playoffs. The bats could get hot and we can win it all. I don’t care if we loose in the playoffs again, I am used to it. But I am sick that baseball will be dead to me in the middle of September.

If the Yanks get knocked out early, I’m rooting full tilt for the D-rays.

“I’d rather not make the playoffs if it means we go in without Posada, Joba, and Wang.  I dont want to give other teams the satisfaction of beating the worst team we could possibly field. “

I cant agree with this either. It is the team you have on that first day of the playoffs that matters. It doesnt matter how you get there.

Last year I REALLY wanted to Indians to go all the way.  I don’t mind so much if the Ynakees lose- I just dont want to see teams like Anaheim, Bahston, Mutts, Dodgers, etc. win.

I doubt his projection going forward will be that of a 4th starter, he’s got this year and 06, which will easily outweigh his 07, I think he’ll project on that 2/3 line (110 ERA+). His peripherals are strong this year too (4th in the AL in SO/BB ratio), so I think the age decline will be balanced by that.

I’d project Moose to have the following line next year using his revised projection to fill in the rest of this year and then his 2005-2007 actuals:

For Pettite, I’d get the following:

If the Yanks get knocked out early, I’m rooting full tilt for the D-rays.

I will buy a Ray hat and sashay around my office with it - in full view of the Sox fans that infest my floor. 

Sox fans have envied the Yanks and their fans for ages and now that they are in the position that Yanks fans usually reside, they might as well take the bad with the good.

“Anybody but teh Sox!!11!”

Bearing SG’s projections in mind and thinking of the last few years it always seems like Moose is a more all or nothing kind of guy than Pettitte.  I’m not saying given the choice I’d take Pettitte over Moose next season but It would at least give me pause.

I consider Moose a #4 starter in the sense that i wouldn’t be shocked at all if one day a switch got flipped and became mediocre.  to be a #2 starter, a team has to be able to bank on you being decent even when you are off.

While we’re talking about tickets, why don’t they give free teleporters to people 4+ hours away who can’t drive to games after work? And free beer once we get there.

Do I have to be 4 hours away?  I’m 2+, and I have to leave work early if I want to go to games.  You can even keep the teleporter, I just want the free-beer.

if Joba were OK, i’d gladly take my chances with Joba, Moose, and Pettitte.

but yeah, if Joba is out, that would pretty much suck.

At the same time as that, for the Yankees to make the playoffs, it is likely that Phil Hughes would have a triumphant return to NY.  I’ll take Hughes, Moose, and Pettitte in the playoffs as well.

I consider Moose a #4 starter in the sense that i wouldn’t be shocked at all if one day a switch got flipped and became mediocre.

Are there really any starters that don’t fit that bill?  That’s one of the key reasons you have to be careful giving pitchers long-term contracts.  In addition to a higher injury-rate (I think), they just aren’t as projectable.

I hope Hughes becomes the star he was hyped to be too but you really can’t expect it after what we saw from him before he got hurt.  I know about the arm angle thing so it’s nice to have hope but Joba is certainly the goods.  At least was- lets hope…

My friend is getting real geared up for the game tonight.  He played on the high-school team with the kid the rangers called up to start tonight, so we’re heading to a local bar to watch the game.  I just hope he ends up disapointed.

to be a #2 starter, a team has to be able to bank on you being decent even when you are off.

That depends on how you define decent.  But I seriously doubt that most teams have two starters who NEVER throw a clunker.  James Shields has allowed six or more ER four times this season.  AJ Burnett has done that six times, included two games where he gave up 8 ER in 5 IP or less.  John Lester gave up 11 ER in 12.1 IP in the two starts sandwiched around his shutout of the Yankees.  Gavin Floyd has had three games of 5 ER or more in 4 IP or less.  I know this is cherry picking, but it’s cherry picking from teams with the some of the best starting pitching in the league this year.

I hope Hughes becomes the star he was hyped to be too but you really can’t expect it after what we saw from him before he got hurt.

Except that he was almost certainly pitching hurt long before we knew he was hurt.

“I hope Hughes becomes the star he was hyped to be too but you really can’t expect it after what we saw from him before he got hurt.  I know about the arm angle thing so it’s nice to have hope but Joba is certainly the goods.  At least was- lets hope…”

I am totally ignoring what hughes did this season. He was pitching with a broken rib. When I think of hughes in the bigs I think of him essentially saving our season (if only prolonging it one more game) in the playoffs last year. I feel like because he and kennedy sucked people are inclined to group them together when their circumstances were different. Kennedy just sucked before and after his injury, Hughes was injured.

Hughes is going to come back kicking ass and taking names.  Bank on it.  Kennedy, I’m not quite as sure about.

I hope Hughes becomes the star he was hyped to be too but you really can’t expect it after what we saw from him before he got hurt.

Oh, I’m just saying that it is likely that IF the Yankees make the playoffs, AND Joba is also out for the year, that Hughes came up and performed well.  I do indeed think he will, but I can certainly understand if people aren’t sure of that.  I am 90% positive however that one of Hughes and Kennedy will need to pitch very-well down the stretch for the Yankees to have a legitimate chance at the playoffs.  Hughes would be more likely, though I’m not ready to write Kennedy off, either.