The Curse of Jerry Hairston, Jr./Eric Hinske:
 

Wednesday, December 16, 2009

Assessing the 2010 Yankees as of December 16, 2009

I figured it’s time to take a look at how the Yankees’ roster for 2010 looks right now so we can see where the big holes are and speculate on how they should be resolved, so here’s how they look using CAIRO.

First, here’s my stab at the projected lineup and playing time.

Player Pos PA AVG/OBP/SLG BR Outs BRAR RS WAR
Derek Jeter SS 625 .307/.374/.425 84 391 29 -4 2.5
Curtis Granderson CF 625 .257/.339/.462 87 413 26 5 3.1
Mark Teixeira 1B 670 .280/.380/.529 111 416 34 3 3.8
Alex Rodriguez 3b 605 .282/.389/.546 105 370 44 -4 4.0
Robinson Cano 2B 625 .311/.348/.494 90 407 30 -1 3.0
Jorge Posada C 425 .266/.352/.455 58 276 21 -5 1.6
Nick Swisher RF 550 .235/.356/.444 74 354 16 0 1.6
Melky Cabrera LF 500 .263/.328/.390 56 336 4 -2 0.2
Juan Miranda DH 463 .247/.331/.427 57 310 1 0 0.1
Starters Total 5088 722 3272 205 -7 19.8


BR: Absolute linear weights batting runs based on estimated playing time, not adjusted for position.
Outs: Outs made while batting. Team outs should add up to around 4100 over a full season.
BRAR: Batting runs above replacement level at position.
RS: Runs saved compared to average, using an average of zone rating and UZR pro-rated to projected playing time.
WAR: Wins above replacement (BRAR + RS)

Playing time is a bit optimistic here right now for most of the starters, but I did that intentionally so we can see exactly which positions profile as the weakest over a full season. Shocking no one, it’s LF and DH, although I should note that Melky’s defensive projection in LF does not factor in his CF numbers and is based on a very small sample. Since he projects a hair above average in CF(+2), it’s more likely than not that he’d be a plus defender in LF. Maybe a +7 or so.

The bench looks like this.

Player Pos PA AVG/OBP/SLG BR Outs BRAR RS WAR
Francisco Cervelli C 235 .251/.326/.357 23 158 2 0 0.2
Brett Gardner CF 275 .262/.353/.351 32 178 6 5 1.1
Ramiro Pena SS 240 .240/.306/.316 20 166 -2 0 -0.2
Kevin Russo 2B 175 .249/.313/.338 16 120 -1 0 -0.1
Jamie Hoffmann CF 300 .242/.319/.359 30 204 1 0 0.1
Bench Total 1225 121 827 7 5 1.1


Adding that up gets us this.

Player PA BR Outs BRAR RS WAR
Team Total 6313 843 4100 212 -2 21.0


We can probably add about a win to that if we assume Melky’s a +7 defender in LF instead of a -2. My version of WAR sets replacement level a touch higher than most (around a 52 win team) so this means the Yankee position players would push the Yankees to around 73 wins. For every WAR they can add at DH or LF, add another win to that.

As far as what they should do, I’ll say this:
1) I hate the concept of a rotating DH. It makes the assumption that the Yankees will be healthy all year. As soon as you lose one of your starters, you are now facing a situation where you’ll have a replacement level hitter at a position that can only provide value on offense.
2) I’m starting to cool on the idea of bringing back Johnny Damon at almost any cost. His projection scares me (.264/.345/.427) even though I know projections are limited. His defense scares me, even though last year wasn’t bad enough to drag down his defensive projection far below average. While Damon has every right to ask for whatever he wants in his next contract, I have every right to be annoyed about him doing it and I think I am now.

The Yankees probably need at least one bat, and preferrably two. One to put at DH, and one to put in LF. Their current payroll commitment for 2010 is around $188M according to Cot’s. That seems reasonably close to their rumored budget in 2010, so I don’t know what they can do.

Here’s how the pitching staff looks.

Pitching Role IP R WAR
CC Sabathia SP1 200 76 6.0
A.J. Burnett SP2 180 84 3.8
Andy Pettitte SP3 180 90 3.2
Joba Chamberlain SP4 170 87 2.8
Phil Hughes SP5 150 64 2.0
Chad Gaudin SP6 60 33 0.8
Sergio Mitre SP7 50 31 0.3
Zachary McAllister SP8 25 16 0.1
Starter Total 1015 480 19.0
Mariano Rivera CL 70 19 2.2
Damaso Marte SU 50 25 0.5
David Robertson SU 60 27 0.9
Alfredo Aceves MR 70 37 0.5
Mark Melancon MR 50 29 0.1
Romulo Sanchez MR 50 33 -0.4
Edwar Ramirez LR 25 13 0.2
Kei Igawa LR 25 20 -0.5
Ivan Nova LR 25 19 -0.4
Reliever Total 425 222 3.1
Pitching Total 1440 702 22.0



I’m just showing an estimated innings pitched and then the runs allowed over those innings for everyone, and how it translates to WAR. I use RA to calculate WAR, so it’s simply the difference in runs allowed over the projected innings compared to a replacement level pitcher.

I went a little more conservative here with the innings. CC’s projected to throw 230 but I knocked him down to 200. Burnett’s projected to throw 187, I knocked him down by a game, and also knocked Pettitte down by about 20 IP. I’m assuming Joba can throw 15 more innings than last year, and I’m also assuming Hughes’s prior time as a starter means he can get to 150 IP in 2010. Then I threw in some innings for Chad Gaudin, Sergio Mitre and Zach McAllister.

Using these estimated innings, the starters would project to be somewhere around 19.0 WAR, which is pretty good.

The bullpen ended up looking worse than I’d have expected. The top four are fine, but after that they’re essentially replacement level. Obviously we know that Mark Melancon is talented, but we also don’t know how good he’ll be in 2010. Romulo Sanchez has good stuff, but he’s never really done much with it, in either the majors or the minors. While I still think Edwar Ramirez can pitch at the major league level, the numbers right now aren’t too supportive. And even if Kei Igawa himself doesn’t actually pitch for the Yanks in 2010, someone who’ll give a similar performance very likely will which is why I have him in here.

Overall though, the pitching staff looks every bit as valuable as the position players, so this version of the Yankees on paper would look to be about 43.0 WAR in total. Add that to 52 and you get about a 95 win team. Looking at the runs scored (BR) and runs allowed (pitching and defense) and plugging it into Pythagenpat gives us a 94.8 - 67.2 record. In both cases we should subtract 2-3 wins from that to account for the AL East.

While this is encouraging, it makes a few big assumptions.
- Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes will be healthy and effective in the rotation all year
- No disastrous injuries in the rest of the pitching staff
- Good health from all the starting position players
- At least replacement level play by the bench

So now the question becomes, what bat(s) should they add?

--Posted at 10:29 am by SG / 199 Comments | - (485)

Comments

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Jesus Montero.

Montero projects around .258/.310/.444, which is right around DH replacement level.  If he can hit his 80% forecast (.280/.337/.506) he’s around 2 wins better than replacement over a full season.

If Holliday is amenable, could a backloaded five year contract with an AAV of about $20m be tailored to keep the payroll within the Yankees’ supposed budget?

I really dislike backloaded contracts that do more than increase the AAV by more than 5% per year.  All that happens is the team faces significant financial difficulties in the future when the player is likely to be less valuable to the team.  If the team is dead set on not replacing anyone next year than 1 yr at a low level and the rest at a roughly equal level makes sense to me.  Beyond that it just seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.

If the Yankees added Ben Sheets and Nick Johnson, how would that change things?

If Holliday is amenable, could a backloaded five year contract with an AAV of about $20m be tailored to keep the payroll within the Yankees’ supposed budget?

I guess it depends on Jeter and Mo’s new contracts.  The Yanks are on the hook for around $85M per year through 2013 for CC, A-Rod, Teix and A.J. alone.  Not sure they want to add another $20M to that.

This rotating DH idea can’t be serious.  On face value it’s such a bad idea I can’t see the team actually taking this to be a serious strategy.

And Damon does get less and less attractive.  They should take a very hard look at Holliday.  The market for him doesn’t seem very dynamic.

1) I hate the concept of a rotating DH. It makes the assumption that the Yankees will be healthy all year. As soon as you lose one of your starters, you are now facing a situation where you’ll have a replacement level hitter at a position that can only provide value on offense.

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

2) I’m starting to cool on the idea of bringing back Johnny Damon at almost any cost. His projection scares me (.264/.345/.427) even though I know projections are limited. His defense scares me, even though last year wasn’t bad enough to drag down his defensive projection far below average.

All fair to worry about, but I’d also worry about Melky putting up his projected .263/.328/.390, or worse.  Damon also still has some baserunning value.  It’s a tough call.  Holliday solves this in a big way, of course.  But the cost is high.

Let’s look at some scenarios:

1) Sign Holliday for 6/$110 and roll with Miranda & resting regulars as the DH. 

2) Sign Nick Johnson for 2 years @ $8MM/year (realistic?  Too low?) and run Melky out there as the everyday LFer. 

3) Sign Xavier Nady and Carlos Delgado (or Thome) for LF/DH.  What are reasonable contracts for those guys?  1 year deals, obviously.  A few million each?

I’ve ordered them in costliest to cheapest.

Hmm, my scenarios 2 and 3 could probably have Sheets added to them.  That might make for a more interesting comparison.

Sheets want big money and I’m sure he wants a guaranteed spot.  Much better to upgrade the 6th SP with a guy who will be useful in the pen.  Woudln’t want to spend more than $2-3M.

Holliday just makes too much sense not to happen.  I can’t really see another attractive LF option.  The next best option to me is moving Granderson to left and letting Gardner start in CF.

If the Yankees added Ben Sheets and Nick Johnson, how would that change things?

I don’t know, I don’t feel comfortable with Sheets’s projection after his injury.  Assuming he’s the same pitcher he was pre-injury, it looks like he’d project to be about 1.0 WAR for every 50 innings he can pitch, so if we give him the 135 innings allocated to Gaudin, Mitre and McAllister and put them in the pen to take away the Sanchez/Edwar/Igawa/Nova innings, you end up allowing about 32 fewer runs.

As far as Johnson, I don’t like his odds of staying healthy, but replacing Miranda at DH with him buys you another 75 PAs, and another 21 runs.

That makes them around a 100 win team on paper, but with a lot riding on the health of two guys who’ve never consistently shown an ability to stay healthy.

Much better to upgrade the 6th SP with a guy who will be useful in the pen

Escobar?

I wonder, maybe we really are going to find that letting Matsui go was a mistake…

A projection of 95 wins when the Yankees still have money to spend and places in the roster to spend it sounds pretty good.

[12]  Yeah, Escobar or Duchscherer make the most sense.  Sheets would be fine too if he’d accept low money an a bullpen role to begin the season.  I seriously doubt he’ll take either.

I keep perusing the names of the released and then going to CAIRO and I’m continually suprised how well Gardner projects offensively.  I was going to suggest a look at Ryan Church but he doesn’t really add anything the Yankees don’t already have.

Letting Matsui go will be a mistake if he could have been signed for about what LAA gave him and if they don’t get someone like Delgado on the cheap. That’s a lot of offense lost.

Let’s say they do go expensive in LF (Holliday) and cheap (rotating) at DH, which would be better against RH?: Miranda at DH and Swish in RF, or Swish at DH and Melky in RF?

I don’t know, I don’t feel comfortable with Sheets’s projection after his injury.  Assuming he’s the same pitcher he was pre-injury, it looks like he’d project to be about 1.0 WAR for every 50 innings he can pitch

I’m guessing that means you are ignoring 2009 completely and projecting him as of the end of the 2008 season?  If that is true then that includes his insane 2006 season correct?  I don’t think there is ANY chance he is in the same class of pitcher he was in 2006.  Those numbers are just sick.

Let’s say they do go expensive in LF (Holliday) and cheap (rotating) at DH, which would be better against RH?: Miranda at DH and Swish in RF, or Swish at DH and Melky in RF?

Miranda and Swisher I think.  Miranda’s projected wOBA against righties would be around .354 and Melky’s is around .316.  Holding Swisher as the constant, that’s a difference of around 13 runs over 400 PAs.  So Melky in RF would have to be 13 runs better than Swisher to negate the offensive difference.  That’s highly unlikely over the equivalent of 400 PAs in defensive innings.

I forgot to account for the fact that if Miranda DHs, he’d probably be used in a very strict platoon.  That bumps his projection up by a non-trivial amount.  So maybe they do just need one more bat that they can put in LF.

I’m guessing that means you are ignoring 2009 completely and projecting him as of the end of the 2008 season?  If that is true then that includes his insane 2006 season correct?

2006 is part of everyone’s 2010 projection, although for pitchers it’s only about 7% of their projections. But yeah, I’d agree there’s no chance he’s anywhere near that 2006 player, and there’s a good chance he’s not that 2007-2008 guy either if he left anything on the operating table.

Oh, but since Sheets missed 2009, 2006 is a bigger part of his projection, around 14%, which is probably too much.

I hate the concept of a rotating DH. It makes the assumption that the Yankees will be healthy all year.

Well, there are rotating DH’s, and rotating DH’s.  For example, let’s say they can afford Holliday (or trade for some other corner OF), and nothing else.  I think it would be perfectly acceptable to have Swisher as the “every day DH”, and put Melky in a corner; Swish is decent defensively, Melky is probably better. 

The DH would still rotate, as Swish would sometimes play 1B for Teix, sometimes a corner OF spot, sometimes take the day off.  Say then Swish gets 100 games as a DH, 50 in the field, 12 off.  The other 62 games you rotate.  I think that’s perfectly acceptable, and probably better than dumping Melky and going with a cheap DH - Melky would probably save as many runs over Swisher than a cheap DH would provide over Melky w/ the bat.

But the concept of having no “regular” DH, not really a big fan, no.

[22] If you redid Sheets projection, but pretended in 2009 he did what his 2009 projection would have been, would it change much?

Also, I think Dunn is ahead of Igawa on the depth chart for LHRP.  As you say it probably won’t make a difference, but…it would make everyone here feel better if we didn’t see Igawa’s name on the pitching staff!

[21] - I agree. I don’t think he will be as good as he he was in 2007 and 2008.  Forcing my self to ignore all the associations with his name and what he once was, I just don’t see him as a better option that Hughes or Joba at this point.  It’s like signing Mark Prior.  They shouldn’t guarantee him a rotation spot and there is no way he is going to agree to that.  I agree with snapper.

OT, but I’m wondering if Sox get Adrian Gonzalez for first, then that will mean that Youk plays third and Victor catches? If they are commited to Victor everyday at catcher won’t that be a problem in terms of stolen bases and perhaps handling their staff. Clearly the Indians didn’ like his work behind the dish.  Perhaps he would best be suited to dh but they still have Ortiz. I’m thinking that they are asking for trouble if they think Martinez will work out behind the plate.  I sort of assumed he’d play first for them.

What’s Gardner-Melky in LF?

I wonder - if one has player A with wOBA w +/- dA (projection), and b with w +/- dB, what does one expect from the two in one spot?

I think also that Holliday becomes more attractive to Yanks (if he’s not on the radar now) should Theo make a deal for AG.

I like the idea of resigning Nady, as long as he can throw the ball. I’d like to add Cust as an option to Rob’s Delgado and Thome.

And, if the market for Capps doesn’t push his price up too high he seems like a very solid gamble.

Courtesy of Chad Jennings, Baseball America has it’s Top 10 Yankee Prospect listing out.  Check out the wealth of catchers…

If you redid Sheets projection, but pretended in 2009 he did what his 2009 projection would have been, would it change much?

Yeah, he actually improves from a projected ERA of 3.71 to around 3.60, since he doesn’t get regressed towards the mean as much with an actual 2009 pitching line.

Projecting any pitcher coming off a lost season is a complete crapshoot, honestly.  I wouldn’t trust projecting any of them.  CAIRO has Wang around a 4.66 ERA, but I could easily see a scenario where he’s signficantly better or worse than that.

26: It creates two defensive concerns long term, with Youkilis probably seeing his range erode a bit, though in this hypothetical you’re replacing one GG 1b’er with another. But then we sign Mauer and all is right again. Or Max Ramirez has the lightbulb click on in Pawtucket.

I like the idea of Church if he’ll take a minor-league deal.  He seems more likely than most to.  Looks like he is around average or a little above defensively in the corners, average to a little below in CF.  FanGraphs (Jack Moore) states, “he could be an above average player in a starting role” if his power rebounds.  Looking at his numbers he’s been around average (or better) every year of his career until last year, so…wouldn’t want to guarantee him a spot, but he’d be nice to have around.

I would guess that V-Mart/Gonzalez/Youk is miles better than replacing Gonzalez with Varitek, defense be damned.

I wonder - if one has player A with wOBA w +/- dA (projection), and b with w +/- dB, what does one expect from the two in one spot?

You try to figure out how playing time would be allocated and then you just use ptA * A + ptB * B where ptA + ptB = a full-time season at a position.  If you have a platoon, you can generally assume the right-handed half of the platoon would see something like 35% of the playing time based on the typical distribution of innings pitched by handedness.

In the case of Melky/Gardner as a LF platoon, figure that means TSBG would get 425 PAs in LF.  That projects to about 7 BRAR.  Give Melky 225 PAs, that’s 2 BRAR.  So offensively they’d project around one win above replacement level.  Then we have to try and project their defense.  Gardner would project around +8 in CF over 425 PAs, add maybe four runs to that if he’s in LF.  Melky projects around average in CF over 225 PAs, make that maybe +2 in LF.  So you’ve got 9 BRAR and 14 runs above average defensively.  2.3 WAR or so?

But then you have to figure you will need more PT out of someone like Hoffmann to make up for any time Melky/TSBG would have seen backing up Granderson and/or Swisher.

[31] Thanks, I actually expected it to go the other way if 2006 counted less.  Then again I usually get into trouble when I think about stuff, so that was my first mistake.  I think.

Projecting any pitcher coming off a lost season is a complete crapshoot, honestly.

I guess that’s where the % levels can come in handy.  If you (rhetorical, no action required) post say his 20, 35, 50, 65, and 80 levels, we can then use scouting/medical reports to nail it down.  Though of course what comes out would be optimistic unless Sheets threw for several teams.  E.g. if 10 scouts all came out saying he, “looked as good as ever, no concerns at all” you may be tempted to pick his 65%.  If it were mixed (“FB was only topping out at 90”), you may pick the 35%.

Of course really that’s only useful for how much we want to complain when the Yankees do/don’t sign him!

From [30] -

2013 Lineup:


Closer     Joba Chamberlain

I’m not sure about Nick Johnson. His HR/FB for some past seasons looks like this:

2006: 16.0%
2008: 15.2%
2009: 6.5%

Obviously, he was on the shelf for all of 2007, and he only had ~150 PA’s in 2008. I would expect there would be something lost from all his issues, but that’s an alarming drop in power. I guess it comes down to whether or not you think that is sustainable or a fluke. FWIW, his FB% and LD% has been about the since 2006.

[37] Yeah also a lot of their information is a bit off. Somehow they have the rule 5 pick up but don’t have the AJax trade. Also given the problem Brackman had with FB velocity this year how does he have the system’s best fastball?

I’m not a huge fan of Baseball America. They said that Joba has shown no ability to start. Before he breached 100 innings in 2009 he was under a 4 ERA. Also, even though it is a small sample side it seems silly to ignore how he performed starting in 2008.

Petco Park is a beautiful place to play.  The team’s front office,though may be very presumtive in thinking that attendance will not drop if they deal their only real power threat, Gonzalez.  Afterall, its not like they have any other fan favorite left and it is certainly hard to justify trading him based upon him being too expensive.  The idea of Beckett going there doesn’t make any sense when he will be a free agent and is likely more costly for his last year than AG. If Ellsbury and Bucky are all it takes then something strange is going on and maybe the Pads are becomeing Florida “light”

[37] I liked this the best from [30]:

No. 1 Starter     C.C Sabathia
No. 2 Starter   Phil Hughes
No. 3 Starter   A.J. Burnett

Yankees downplay their interest in Bay

The newspaper reports the Yankees plan to trim their payroll and also have concerns about Bay’s defensive ability. The source added that if the Yankees decide to make a run at a premier outfielder, they likely will pursue free agent Matt Holliday.

Not really news, but it’s interesting that a “source” actually mentioned Holliday when, I assume, he was asked about interest in Bay.

But then you have to figure you will need more PT out of someone like Hoffmann to make up for any time Melky/TSBG would have seen backing up Granderson and/or Swisher.

Not necessarily.  Or at least not a lot.  Melky’s only getting 225PA, so he can move over to RF to back up Swisher, and in some cases move Gardner to CF for Granderson.  Probably wouldn’t add more than 1 WAR or so so the projected team.

<i>Somehow they have the rule 5 pick up but don’t have the AJax trade.</i.

How do you figure?

40: the whole Gonzales to Boston thing seems awfully hypothetical to me, for all the obvious reasons. Still, if it does happen, it’s yo’ asses in 2010!

Is the fact that Brackman and Slade and whoever else are in the top 10 reflective of how bad the farm is?

Course, some losses from the recent trade, and not that the Yankees need immediate help from the farm, but…

[37] I meant, exceptionally unclearly, that I wondered about just starting Gardner.

Re players A and B, as above, that given two players each expected to put up w wOBA +/- d, one ought to do a bit better than w +/- d on the season if one can identify when A is in a slump (or just not hitting his projection) and switch in B, and v.v.  Obviously there’s some cost due to rust, and I’m not looking for w+d +/- sqrt(2)d or anything.

I don’t really want to pay Mauer $30M/year when we have Jesus Piazza coming up, but knowing how much it would crush Sox fans is kind of tempting.

I’m not sure about Nick Johnson. His HR/FB for some past seasons looks like this:

2006: 16.0%
2008: 15.2%
2009: 6.5%

The key here is the wrist injury, no?  It seems it takes guys a while to come all the way back, and power is the last thing to return.  Also, looking at that list, it seems that 2009 is the outlier.  Shouldn’t one expect a bounceback if the underlying stuff (line drive rate, etc) is the same?

I totally understand worrying that Johnson will get hurt again.  I don’t really see much cause for concern that his bat will die.

47: Yankz has been hanging around Joe Lieberman too much lately.

Is the fact that Brackman and Slade and whoever else are in the top 10 reflective of how bad the farm is?

I’m pretty sure BBAmerica is big into ranking “upside”.  So Brackman’s upside is still #1 starter, and they moved him to #10 b/c of the injury.  Heathcott is a recent first-round pick who is toolsy.  Etc.  Other sites I believe go more with “results”, so they may rank Brackman - who really hasn’t done anything yet - a lot lower and instead maybe rank Russo who excelled in AAA (if he’s a little old) in the top 10.

I think the rankings say more about who is doing the ranking than anything.  It’s just nice for a discussion point.  Hell if I threw out 10 names it would be nice for discussion.  Or if a certain blogger w/ initials “FM” were to do so…

There are only two reasons I can think for why Hoyer would trade AG to the RS.  (1) To bring back a haul of young prospects (not Beckett, obviously); or (2) as a thank-you note to the RS for giving him a start in this racket.  “(2)” seems like it should be out of the question.  However, if it’s “(1),” why would Hoyer want to limit the negotiation to the RS?  Surely he could get a better return by shopping AG around.

(2) should get him fired. (1) seems unrealistic. Someone I read pointed out that most prospects-for-veterans trades take place because one side values some element of the deal higher than the other does. Tigers GM thinks Action Jackson is the shizzle; Cashman has doubts… trade! But Hoyer likely feels exactly the same about the Sox’ prospects as Theo does, so as soon as Hoyer thinks he’s getting a good deal, Theo starts to think he’s getting jacked. This would be different if there were money issues, but the only problem for the Padres is Gonzales’ likely salary bump… in 2012. Who’s playing for 2012 already?

I totally understand worrying that Johnson will get hurt again.  I don’t really see much cause for concern that his bat will die.

I guess there could be legitimate concern that the wrist-injury was sufficient to permanently rob him of some power.  E.g. if he can’t turn his hands over as quickly, he may not longer pull the ball w/ authority.  Basically you would be paying to find out.  Which screams, “incentive laden contract”.  Pay to see the flop, but get out of before the turn if you get no help.

[52]  I like that analysis.  Puts the negotiations in a more logical light.

The key here is the wrist injury, no?  It seems it takes guys a while to come all the way back, and power is the last thing to return.  Also, looking at that list, it seems that 2009 is the outlier.

Well, the thing is, the timeline goes something like this:

2006: Regular Nick Johnson, until he breaks his leg in September.
2007: Rehabbing said broken leg.
2008: Started the year.. on the DL mid-May with the wrist injury.
2009: Played the entire year with DC/Florida.

So everything post wrist injury has been power-lacking and homer-less.

Your comment about the power being the last thing to return is what I was getting at. Is it too much of a gamble to suspect that it will return? I think the LD% and FB% are encouraging, and he would obviously benefit from placing in YS.

54: I stole it, but it makes sense.

Adding… Sox and Pads might need a third team involved to get unstuck.

Maybe Cashman has the same Marte-esque regret over Vlad? His white whale and all that.

[47] I would be surprised if Montero was able to stick at catcher.  Pretty much every scout outside of the Yankees organization does not believe he can stay there.  Now, it’s possible they are wrong, but I’m assuming he’s a DH going forward.

[59]  There have been some rumblings to the contrary recently.

Letting Matsui go will be a mistake…

I agree given the current construction of the roster.  But we know the Yankees are smart, so there has to be something else up their sleeves, maybe even more than just re-signing Johnny Damon.  Something like Holliday, or a trade for Adam Dunn, or a trade for a frontline starter, or something.

I mean, if they’re projecting to about 92-95 wins right now, how many wins should they be looking to add?  Matsui’s 2 or 3 wins would have gone a long way to settling things, and at $6.5M, I don’t see why they pass on that unless they have their eyes on a bigger prize.

Is it too much of a gamble to suspect that it will return?

Maybe.  I see your point.  So yeah, incentives would make sense (frankly they’d make sense even w/o the wrist injury in particular.  The man just hasn’t been able to stay on the field).

I agree that Hoyer & Theo making a trade would be tough.  They know each other well, and that could more of a hinderance than a help.  Plus, imagine public perception in San Diego.  Not only would they be losing their 1 good player, but it looks like some sort of shady inside job.

At least that’s what I hope.  The idea of Gonzalez at 1B, Youk at 3B and VMart at C is pretty scary (even with the defensive hit it entails).  That lineup would be back to 2003-2004 levels.

Re: 50

My new year’s resolution is to start writing again. Law school has taken my soul and I think that might be the only way to get it back.

But we know the Yankees are smart, so there has to be something else up their sleeves, maybe even more than just re-signing Johnny Damon.

Cashman talks about being patient, and the patience may extend into the season.  IOW, leave the DH open (even rotating) b/c Cashman thinks he may have better options in June.  ARod hitting great but not fielding well?  ARod to DH and maybe a 3B is available.  Posada hitting fine but can’t throw anyone out?  Perhaps a solid catcher is available (or Montero has shown enough he deserves a shot at C), Po to DH.  Everyone is doing as well as expected or better (including one or both of Garnder/Melky exceeding expectations) *except* for DH?  Get a DH.

I agree he’s probably got one more trick up his sleeve, or at the very least he feels that he can get a DH that should be similar to Matsui’s production later in the year if all else fails.  But he may also feel having DH open allows him to fix ANY need on offense later.  Especially if there is a hard budget and he wants to leave room to add salary.

Bridge year?  wink

Maybe.  I see your point.  So yeah, incentives would make sense (frankly they’d make sense even w/o the wrist injury in particular.  The man just hasn’t been able to stay on the field).

Yeah, I mean, I’d love to see Nick Johnson out there at DH, putting up a .450 slug and a .410 OBP.  If Cashman think the power will come back (either from more time to heal or by getting 250-300 PA’s in YS), then go for it.

[63] Sweet!  About the writing part, not the lost-soul part.

[60] That would certainly be good news.  It’s not like we don’t have 15 catchers in the system anyway.

...one side values some element of the deal higher than the other does.

from the too-rational economics perspective, this is the only reason a trade should happen.  Sometimes of course there are legitimate reasons for teams to value players differently, and sometimes you are Dayton Moore.

SSF:  “But Hoyer likely feels exactly the same about the Sox’ prospects as Theo does, . . .” 

I disagree with this part.  Just because Hoyer worked for the RS doesn’t mean he and Theo share the same opinions about the RS’s prospects.  Presumably you would find examples of internal disagreements about players’ values within any organization. 

Overall, I can’t help but think that Hoyer’s former association with the RS would make a trade for AG MORE likely, not LESS.  If there is genuine trust and friendship between Theo and Jed, that will help keeping them talking and maybe avoid getting cold feet out about the whole thing. Also, the personal angle could help facilitate a bit of a conspiracy in which they essentially agree to get a third team involved and rip off THAT team.  (“Hey, Jed:  You don’t want to get burned in this and neither do I.  How ‘bout we see if we can get Team X to give up . . . “).

[65] Building a bridge to the Canyon of Heroes my friend.

Hopefully Cashman is better than PennDOT, or we won’t see another championship for a decade.

How ‘bout we see if we can get <strike>Team X</strike>the Pirates to give up McCutchen

Look better?

[69] & [70] - Also, teams could be using the exact same projections for players and still make a trade.  In SD’s case, future value is probably worth more compared to present value than in the RS case.  Differing discount rates can lead to a productive trade even with symmetrical information.

[73] - Of course.  I meant “value” pretty generically, not just WAR or something.

and I didn’t mean that to sound snippy, if it did.

BD: agree about the comfort/trust thing. As for the like-mindedness, who knows. I think it’s more likely they share opinions, but only they know.

Lots of speculation at SOSH about Beckett to Texas for stud prospects who go to SD for A-Gon. Now that sounds like a logical deal, as far as teams maximizing wholly different perceptions of value. The Lowell thing suggests Bos and Tex have something brewing. But… it’s still just hot air. And Texas is in the middle of a sale.

Fun hot stove times…

And by “sale” I meant ownership change.

[61] “Matsui’s 2 or 3 wins would have gone a long way to settling things, and at $6.5M”

As I linked yesterday, Cashman made it clear that Matsui would not have signed with NY for that.

“My new year’s resolution is to start writing again. Law school has taken my soul and I think that might be the only way to get it back.”

When I was overburdened by the demands of law school, I can recall thinking about how great it would be to read something with a plot.

[61]  We don’t know if the Yankees “passed” on Matsui at $6.5 million.  It was disussed yesterday(?) that players who are asked to take a pay cut sometimes PREFER to play for a different team.  If pride comes into play for playes in general, it’s not hard to imagine it would be a big factor for a player like Matsui who comes from a culture where saving face is incredibly important. 

Moreover, what difference does it make what Matsui is getting from another team after the Yankees let him go?  If the Yankees weren’t going to sign him, obviously the market for his services was going to drop and he was going to end up with another team at a significantly lower salary.  It’s the same thing that happened with Abreu.  Maybe my memory is starting to fade, but I don’t recall people feeling ripped off when Abreu signed for $5mm.  And that makes sense, because if the Yankees had really wanted BA, it obviously would have cost them more than the $5mm he ultimately got.  $6.5mm is the price for Matsui AFTER the Yankees kick him to floor (I jest), not BEFORE.

Law school has taken my soul and I think that might be the only way to get it back.

Do it while you can.  I barely got it back, thankfully.

When I was overburdened by the demands of law school, I can recall thinking about how great it would be to read something with a plot.

When I was overburdened by the demands of law school, I can recall thinking about how great it would be to order something from the Vietnamese restaurant next door and watch football all day.

I love Jerry Crasnick, but I may be biased because of his love for Mo. He gets bonus points for finding a way to write about Snacks Pontoon.

How many lawyers are there here?  Five hundred?

[43] Oh, just in the Yankees’ top draft pick section. It has Eric Duncan and Austin Jackson still in the Yankees organization. Minor quibble, but the Brackman best fastball thing is strange.

The rest of the problems with many top prospects lists have been discussed in previous threads and above posts. BA falls into the some of the same problems.

As I linked yesterday, Cashman made it clear that Matsui would not have signed with NY for that.

Just read the quote now.  Not sure how seriously we’re supposed to take that, but I get it.  Either way, I’m not expressing any frustration or regret at the Yankees having not re-signed Matsui.  In fact, I think they it was probably the perfect time to move on.  I was just trying to read into things a little bit.

Cashman talks about being patient, and the patience may extend into the season.

This would make sense, too.  Though listening to Cashman and Girardi talk this offseason, it doesn’t seem like this is what they’re looking to do.  And it hasn’t really been the approach in the past.

Interesting.

[85] I thought about law school for like 3 seconds and decided I like not being miserable. But a great number of my friends are in law school.

Fancy law firm offers hirees $80k plus benefits to not work for a year, no one (sampled) takes them up.

Law school has taken my soul and I think that might be the only way to get it back.

Soul overrated.

I’d be great to have everything in place, especially as SG wrote, any injuries means trouble for the offense. But I’m thinking even as is going into the season, I rather it be that way so there be flexibility to add bats or pitching via trade. Whatever team ain’t looking to dump salary now might later.

Though probably not much to worry about, I’m thinking the days of overreaction are less likely.

So the Yankees should send their relievers to law schools to observe how to eat souls?

I forgot to account for the fact that if Miranda DHs, he’d probably be used in a very strict platoon.  That bumps his projection up by a non-trivial amount.  So maybe they do just need one more bat that they can put in LF.

Right.  And a rotating short side of the DH platoon is not at all crazy.

Clearly the Indians didn’ like his work behind the dish.

They like it well enough to let him catch 130 games a year.  They played him at 1B to keep his bat in the lineup, not to get him out from behind the plate.  He’s not Johnny Bench back there, but he’s not Cliff Johnson either.

maybe the Pads are becomeing Florida “light”

The Marlins do seem to unload every player as soon as he starts to cost even a little bit of money, but they’ve done a remarkable job of identifying and developing the talent they take back in exchange for those guys.  If Ellsbury and Buchholz got it done for Gonzalez, then the Pads would be turning into something very different than the Marlins.

92 might be the best post ever here. I had totally forgotten about that one.

Oh, just in the Yankees’ top draft pick section. It has Eric Duncan and Austin Jackson still in the Yankees organization.

No, they’re just listing who the top prospect was (by their rankings) for that year.  E.g. they had Jackson as the top prospect heading into 2009.  I don’t think they are listing them anywhere as being in the org.

Speaking of Duncan, he apparantly signed with the Braves, and is going to be assigned to AAA (Gwinnet).  I hope to be there for his first game back, b/c it will be interesting to hear what kind of reception he gets.  Very popular here…

[92] Yes, we need Cashman (lantern) to work on that.

Speaking of lawyers, did you guys know that Craig Calcaterra has abandoned a law career to reside in his mom’s basement full-time? Apparently NBC is sponsoring his stay at mom’s basement.

Though listening to Cashman and Girardi talk this offseason, it doesn’t seem like this is what they’re looking to do.  And it hasn’t really been the approach in the past.

I think they *want* to do something, but at the same time I don’t think Cashman will make a move just to make a move.  E.g. if he doesn’t feel Thome is an upgrade and Thome is the only LF/DH left after Holliday signs (assuming Yanks don’t get him), Cashman may be willing to wait until he sees a move that makes sense.

[8] I would love to see Thome wearing the pinstripes.  He’s a good dude, and could scare the bejesus out of opposing pitchers with that short porch.

[99] I wouldn’t mind Thome either, I was just pulling a name of a potential DH out of the air.  Pick your DH/LF you wouldn’t want, and that’s the one Cashman will skip for the status-quo!

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