Thursday, August 23, 2007
America’s Team? 1) Who the fuck cares? 2) Bullshit
USA Today says that Boston outdraws the Yankees on the road, therefore they are now America’s Team.
Well, first off, America’s Team is a bullshit title that more or less represents how many bandwagon fans you have. And Boston is an attractive option for bandwagon fans who hate the Yankees. So there’s no surprise in who the most popular road draws are.
But it turns out their numbers are funny. Yes, Boston has straight outdrawn the Yankees on the road, 38,803 to 37,906 per gate (the Yankees had one straight doubleheader, so it’s not per game). That is a FACT. But if you’re looking to draw a larger statement about who is coming out to see the teams, you can’t just look at that number.
You have to look at only the games not against each other.
Think about it. If you don’t do it that way, you’re implying that the 54,951 fans who come to see the Yankees host the Red Sox at Yankee Stadium came to see the Red Sox, and the 36,651 who come to Fenway are coming to see the Yankees.
If you take out those games, then the Yankees draw an average of 38,043 on the road, while Boston draws 37,133. That’s an 1800+ seat swing the other way. So I think it’s hard to look at those numbers and draw the conclusion that Boston’s a better road draw by any measure.
Further, here’s the opponent-by-opponent breakdown:
| Opponent | Yankees | Red Sox | Edge |
| Blue Jays | 34,949 | 30,154 | Yankees +4,795 (16%) |
| Orioles | 43,456 | 41,584 | Yankees +1,872 (5%) |
| Devil Rays | 27,757 | 25,847 | Yankees +1,910 (7%) |
| Indians | 41,755 | 33,920 | Yankees +7,835 (23%) |
| Twins | 26,910 | 34,282 | Red Sox +7,372 (27%) |
| Royals | 33,546 | 28,925 | Yankees +4,621 (16%) |
| Angels | 44,280 | 44,187 | Yankees +93 (.2%) |
| Mariners | 45,517 | 41,881 | Yankees +3,636 (9%) |
| Athletics | 35,077 | 30,699 | Yankees +4,378 (14%) |
| Rangers | 36,491 | 38,768 | Red Sox +2,277 (6%) |
So clearly, the Yankees are a better draw almost everywhere.
So why does Boston draw better in Texas and Minnesota?
Easy. Boston had one series in Minnesota: a weekend series in early May. The Yankees’ one series was a mid-week series in early April. The Boston series was almost assured of a better draw.
Boston’s first series in Texas was the Rangers’ home opener (the Yankees didn’t visit anyone on their home openers). If you replace that crowd with the average crowd for a Boston game in Arlington, then the Yankees outdraw them there, too.
Of course, you can do that last exercise the other way too, I’m sure. But the general point is that the Yankees tend to outdraw Boston everywhere, and usually by a sizable margin.
Not that it matters. I like the Yankees. It doesn’t matter if someone else does. They have the right to have bad taste.
Comments
You should send this in to US Today, though I doubt they would publish/correct themselves.
For good measure, we have to consider whether teams expect to sell out when the Yankees come to town and raise their ticket prices. I don’t know if this happens more often for the Yankees than for the Red Sox, but it definitely happens for the Yankees (e.g. here’s a Denver Post article on price increases when they played the Rockies this year: http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_6165859)
Nice catch there Larry.
guys, it’s USA today.
we are talking about journalism for the lowest common denominator.
Larry does an excellent job of debunking the numbers (though a monkey should have known to strip out the games the Yankees and Sox play against each other), but you guys shouldn’t take it too seriously.
it’s like getting mad about American Idol results. or Steve Phillips. oh wait…
Well done, Larry.
What a silly goof by USA Today.
Someone send this to FJM! Heck, I will right now!
America’s team? Who has the logo with the Uncle Sam hat on the ballbat? Who is a Yankee in other parts of the world? An American. Who’s owner celebrates his birthday on the 4th of July? Shall I continue?
in many ways, this might be the best post on this blog in a couple of years. direct, to the point, dead on accurate, and brutal against CW
Counting Red Sox-Yankees games also skews the numbers in the Sawx’s favor before you even start: When the Red Sox visit Yankee Stadium, they play before a crowd of 54,000. When the Yanks go to Fenway, they play before a crowd of 38,000.
Counting Red Sox-Yankees games also skews the numbers in the Sawx’s favor before you even start: When the Red Sox visit Yankee Stadium, they play before a crowd of 54,000. When the Yanks go to Fenway, they play before a crowd of 38,000.
Uh, yeah Keith. I already said that.
in many ways, this might be the best post on this blog in a couple of years. direct, to the point, dead on accurate, and brutal against CW
What he said.
Uh, yeah Keith. I already said that.
*blinks*
*reads post again*
Uh, right, you did.
Carry on.
*slinks into corner to eat worms*
Slanted column writen by a born and raised Chowdahead….Paul White who is a sports ( hack ) writer for a Norfork Va. paper….Self acclaimed Red Sox fan….Enough said
Slanted column writen by a born and raised Chowdahead….Paul White who is a sports ( hack ) writer for a Norfork Va. paper….Self acclaimed Red Sox fan….Enough said
Bingo. Shouldn’t even be a surprise at this point. How he thought he could slip this by anyone when each year the breakdown shows the Yankees to be the top draw everywhere no matter how you do the numbers is a joke.
Good job by Larry, and well appreciated on an off day.
Now back to those damn Mariners….
Yankees poised to sign 16 year old Dominican SS, a Bora$$ client, for $4.5 million.
http://chats.boston.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=auditorium&webtag=bc-sportsmain
Yankees poised to sign 16 year old Dominican SS, a Bora$$ client, for $4.5 million.
this is tremendous news if it happens. just a fantastic, fantastic move by the Yankees.
think about the potential of having a Miguel Cabrera in 3 years.
think about the potential of having a Miguel Cabrera in 3 years.
yup, do you know anything about this kid? I really like Gammons (unlike most Yankee fans), but I’m skeptical. They spent $8 mil in the draft dispersed among 30 kids or so…to throw $4.5 million at one player?
Well, you really can’t compare the contracts of drafted players to those of international free agents since the latter are, you know, free agents.
I realize they are free agents. But the Yankees have an amatuer budget nonetheless and $4.5 million might not fit in, you know, the budget.
And $4.5, in many years, is approximately equivalent to a top-3 pick’s signing bonus. Just wondering if we’re getting a top-3 type of talent.
i am no expert, but i have heard that the scouting reports line up with the hype coming from the Boras camp for a change.
the name i hear thrown around in comparison is A-Rod.
i think the consensus that he would be a top 10 talent in the draft, yes.
maybe Fabian will be around to give a more educated opinion.
one thing that is becoming obvious to me is that Yankees are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with regard to their big contracts. they will obviously add some more big contracts, but they are looking 2-3 years down the line and planning to replace many of these big contracts internally. i think they realize they have LOTS of money to spend and it just makes tons of sense to spend it this way. even if they blow $4.5 on this kid, what does that $4.5M really buy you on the free agent market? 1 year of a middle reliever? much better to keep stocking up on HIGH ceiling prospects and hope you hit the jackpot on 2 or 3 of them.
So you realize that the international players are free agents, yet you continue to make the apples to oranges comparison. That top-3 pick would be getting a much bigger contract if he could negotiate with any team, so a free agent who costs the same money shouldn’t be expected to be a comparable talent. If you want to argue that the international free agent market isn’t a good place to invest, well OK I guess. But the Yankees disagree, and if they avoided signing these players, we wouldn’t have Cano and Cabrera right now, or guys like Tabata to look forward to.
yet you continue to make the apples to oranges comparison
I simply expressed skepticism that the Yankees would spent $4.5 mil on Salcedo. I wasn’t looking for an argument. I never intimated the Yankees shouldn’t spend a mint in the international FA market. I was really just trying to find out what type of talent this 16 year old SS is, which yup was nice enough to attempt to answer. Thanks, yup.
Expecting great journalism from McPaper(USA Today) is like expecting a fine dinning experience from McDonalds…
Yankees recall Bruney thought it would be Britton
Josh Beckett just walked in a run. In fact, he walk three straight White Sox. This is a good sign.
Britton must been given the kiss of the death. Is he at least losing weight?
Pete Abe has the Yankees not signing Alcedo - anyone have a link? I’ll look for one.
Pending Pinstripes:
Edward Salcedo is a FA SS with a 6′3”, 190 lb. frame from La Vega, Dominican Republic. Big League body, strong and athletic. Smooth, easy defensive actions, easy plus arm, can really play SS. Aggressive swing, power projection, deep load from wide base, good bat speed, geared to drive fastballs, timing will be an issue. All the tools to be a top player. Potential 1st round type if in draft.
I suppose if Pete is getting his info from Cashman or the usuall NYY sources, it wouldn’t be the first time they held the card close to the vest before making a move.
I think this is a new item on ESPN…the Face Of the Franchise poll.
Their blogger nomination comes from none other than ReplacementLevel.com.
Alex Rodriguez
ReplacementLevel.com
Britton had a terrific outing last time and he can give the Yankees innings when necessary(Mosse days) which the Yankees will need with the presumed departure of Henn or Villone
I asked this a while ago and either no one had the answer or I didn’t see it - but Bruney looked like he found a little more control from the wind up. Of course, he can’t go from the wind up always, but at least it was a step in the right direction.
His line at SWB for the time he was down was not terribly impressive either.
Hmmm… “either” = “though.”
Meanwhile, the White Sox are in the process of laying another egg..
I’d be shocked if the White Sox were to win more then one game.
I wonder if Duncan will get a start vs the lefty tonight or will the fact that he’s gone 0 for his last 3 bury him forver at the end of the dugout.
Detroit’s lineup looks a lot less scary without Sheffield. That doesn’t mean they won’t rough up Mussina, though. I hope the Yanks have a short leash and a long man ready to go on Monday.
giambi sitting again…
Verlander is coming off a couple of not so good outings as well.. I think he’s matched up against Mussina
I don’t get sitting Abreu
I don’t get sitting Abreu
...and Giambi. Match-ups is one thing.. but sitting two premier offensive players in a game you need to win.. come on.
Hopefully they knock Miller out by the 5th or so and Giambi and Abreu will find their way into the line up.
Clemens is a flyball strikeout pitcher so IericericEr’d rather play Abreu in rf and dh Duncan or Giambi. I think Torre feels that Damon is the catalyst, the straw that stirs the drink.
Ignore the junk between I and d I was thought I was calculating the name of my perfect lover.
I don’t mind sitting Abreu. He’s not very good against lefties and has absolutely no power against them. I would like to see Giambi in the lineup, though.
There’s no reason in the world to have Damon DH’ing over Giambi. None.
Hm, a few things…
As for the original post, 1) ew; and 2) I’m pretty sure the differential, when it even does “favor” the Sox, has to do with Daisuke Matsuzaka tourists.
Apparently the White Sox are pretty bad. Biggest news is not using Paps in game 1, which means no need to make Gagne the emergency closer in g.2.
There’s no reason in the world to have Damon DH’ing over Giambi. None.
I thought maybe Giambi was worse against lefties, but this year, Giambi’s OPS is actually eight points higher against lefties, whereas Sexy Calves takes an eighty-point hit.
So yeah, starting Damon over Giambi as a DH has no basis whatsoever in reality or in any kind of desire to win baseball games.
Meanwhile, the Yankees managed a lousy 5-4 record vs. the dreadful-Sox, errrr ChiSox.
That’s much better than their even lousier 3-6 record against the dreadful Baltimore Orioles. On the other hand, the Yanks are 6-0 against Cleveland.
45 - I read Paps as Papi, which made the comment really hilarious.
Any word on when/if the game starts?
Anyone have an MLB.tv account they’d like to loan me?
Meanwhile, the Yankees managed a lousy 5-4 record vs. the dreadful-Sox, errrr ChiSox.
6-4, and DeSalvo started 2 of the losses.
DeSalvo pitched a gem against Seattle, though, which is proof of just how talented those guys are.
Yeah, 6-4 vs. ChiSox. Including that awful Clemens afternoon start and then they tied the game at 8-8. Dreadful game.
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