Fangraphs has Jeter even Scutaro (they are tied for fifth in terms of value in the AL). Mostly because it doesn’t have him as a +16 run defender. They have Bartlett at 3rd. I think it’s ridiculous that Jeter is the fifth best player in the league at the break and he isn’t the best SS in the league because of Jason Bartlett and Marco Scutaro.

I think it’s ridiculous that Jeter is the fifth best player in the league at the break and he isn’t the best SS in the league because of Jason Bartlett and Marco Scutaro.

You’re being premature.  Don’t forget Jeter’s huge series starting tonight, and Scutaro and Bartlett regressing towards their established levels.  After Sunday, Jeter #1 SS in AL and #3 player (Longoria will have a bad week-end)!

End of year, Jeter will be 3rd most valuable behind Zobrist and Mauer, but close enough you wouldn’t be offended if Jeter won.  Final MVP voting will be 1) Youklis 2) Morneau 3)Jeter 4) Zobrist 5) Mauer.  At the SABR convention they hang Gammons in effigy.

It’s only been half a season, but I am truly impressed by the 35 year-old Jeter.  In a way, I’m more impressed with him than I’ve ever been.

Wait, I spent half the off-season reading Jeter eulogies… and a lot of them where right here.

1) Youklis 2) Morneau 3)Jeter 4) Zobrist 5) Mauer.  At the SABR convention they hang Gammons in effigy.

Where are Bay, Pedroia and Big Papi on this list?

Ortiz gets most-improved, even though it’s just a comeback from earlier this season.

“Wait, I spent half the off-season reading Jeter eulogies… and a lot of them where right here.”

And the people who said so have cooties.

Ortiz gets most-improved, even though it’s just a comeback from earlier this season.

Winner!

I’d feel bad for Marco Scutaro not making the All Star team if he hadn’t hit that cheap HR off Mo back in 2007. Since he did, I don’t care.

Fear SG’s memory, Marco. Be afraid, be very afraid.

BTW, the Yankee staff has officially hit the 100 ERA+ mark. I imagine that the park factors will skew the adjusted numbers in favor of the pitchers at the end of the season, but it’s nice to see anyway.

“the 100 ERA+ mark”

even including Wang’s first three starts…

Without Wang’s 45 ER in 42 IP the Yankees team ERA goes from 4.38 to 4.08, which would be good for 3rd in the AL (obviously you could probably do the same for most other teams, where eliminating their worst pitcher improves the team ERA by a substantial amount).

Where are Bay, Pedroia and Big Papi on this list?

Boston FO decides it is Youkilis’s turn to win, so they send their spokesman (Gammons) out to line up all the voters.  But those three will still have spots in the top 10, just not the type 5.

A better comparison would be to replace the worst pitcher with a replacement-level one, or the projection of the team’s next pitcher on the depth chart.  If Wang was expected to put up a 9 ERA for the rest of the year and pitch 50 innings, it would be biasing to drop him (though it’s biasing to leave him in given the freaky variance).

And Papelbon get a sandwich spot between the top 10 and next 10.

he’s clearly not the horrific defender some people make him out to be

And really never was, except for years in which he played on a bad leg or two.

I am truly impressed by the 35 year-old Jeter.  In a way, I’m more impressed with him than I’ve ever been.

Of course, what makes the great ones great is that they’re good enough younger and stay good enough older.  Lots of guys play like Hall of Famers between the ages of 26 and 31.  But real Hall of Famers play like Hall of Famers before they hit their prime and after they’re past their prime.

Over the last seven games, Youkilis is hitting .107/.167/.179 and striking out once a game.  Sure it’s only 30 PA, but sometimes small sample sizes are quite enjoyable.

But real Hall of Famers play like Hall of Famers before they hit their prime and after they’re past their prime.

Going into this season I was trying to find middle-infielders who stayed productive in their age 35 season and past…and kept quiet about it because I didn’t really find any (maybe Barry Larkin at age 35?  I’ll have to check).  I think that’s the most impressive thing; if Jeter is exactly replacement for the rest of the year, he’ll probably be one of the more valueable 35 year-old SS/2B in the last 50 years (POOMA of course).

“And really never was, except for years in which he played on a bad leg or two.”

Is it not accurate to say he’s been a horrific defender compared to long-term SSs if not to SSs who can’t stick at the position?

Wait, I spent half the off-season reading Jeter eulogies… and a lot of them where right here.

I’ll start banning all the offenders right now.

Hmm…I guess a little more hyperbole on my part than I thought, when using BaseballProjections WAR list.  Several guys had excellent age 35 years, and a few had some years after that where they were +3 WAR or greater.  Jeter may have to be league-average the rest of the way to have an historic season.

Is it not accurate to say he’s been a horrific defender compared to long-term SSs if not to SSs who can’t stick at the position?

I think the question is, has Jeter been a bad defensive SS as far as tools/ability, or has Jeter put up poor defensive statistics at SS.  It’s hard to believe that a 33-35 year old Jeter is more talented defensively than say a 23-25 year old Jeter, although he had several years of poor statistics when he was younger, so then we have to wonder about the reasons he rated so poorly when he was younger.  Was it injury, was it positioning, was it a limitation in defensive metrics? 

Most likely, it’s a combination of factors.  Maybe Jeter is a smarter defender now (pays more attention to scouting reports when positioning, positions himself based on how the opponent is being pitched), even if he’s lost some athleticism as he’s aged?

Is it not accurate to say he’s been a horrific defender compared to long-term SSs if not to SSs who can’t stick at the position?

Real tough for me to eyeball and answer that.  For example, how do you count Michael Young?  Was he a long-term SS?  Also the use of “horrific”.  If he was/is the worst defender of defenders good enough to stick at SS this long is that horrific?

Looking at TotalZone #‘s (it was handy for looking back pre-UZR), looks like Jeter has been about average in 6 years (+/- 4 runs), bad one year (-9), and “horrific” 6 others (-11 or worse).  Mostly it looks like he’s been defined by years 2000-2003 where he was -13 or worse each year.  Injuries?  Brosious declining/leaving?  Knoblauch declining/Soriano?  Don’t know.  It does make you wonder if there factors outside of just ability though.

Wait, I spent half the off-season reading Jeter eulogies ...

As someone who is as young as a Jeter, and someone who wakes up most days with a new pain (how I’d hurt that?), it amazes me that he’s as productive as he is.  That said, a lot of hand wringing is still warranted regardless of how Jeter is playing this season.  He’s 35.  Odds are he’s going to regress and if you’re playing Yankees GM are you gambling a massive commitment to the guy for his decline years and possibly handicapping your team because he’s a True Yankee?  That’s the rub.  Especially when the team could have two other long-toothed gray hairs stomping around the dugout for the next few years.

Hell, he might have a great season next year, too.  Then he wakes up with a stiff knee, a burning shoulder, a crick in his back, early onset Alzheimer’s, etc.  It’s what happens.

Jeter’s ZR Runs Saved from 1995-2008:

YEAR   RS
1995   -3
1996   -13
1997   -2
1998   4
1999   0
2000   -13
2001   -18
2002   -16
2003   -14
2004   3
2005   1
2006   -5
2007   -20
2008   3

I wonder if there’s any coincidence that Jeter has enjoyed his best defensive years while A-Rod has played to his right.  Is it possible he cheats left more now that he has another “shortstop” playing third?

If I had to guess, it would be a combination of improved positioning, scouting, an offseason focus on defense in response to the steady drumbeat of stats-oriented criticism, and a pride-oriented thing with A-Rod (the better shortstop, certainly at the time of the trade) moving to third.

Odds are he’s going to regress and if you’re playing Yankees GM are you gambling a massive commitment to the guy for his decline years and possibly handicapping your team because he’s a True Yankee?

I don’t think Cashman will sign Jeter to an extension this off-season.  Unless Jeter offers a massive discount.  Cashman will do what he did with Mo and Posada.  Wait until after 2010 and see how Jeter is doing, and go from there.  Since I don’t yet know how Jeter will do the rest of this year - and certainly not next - not sure what a “fair” offer would be.  But maybe a 2 year deal with 2 option years which can vest, which would take Jeter through his age 40 season if he is playing well enough.

Without Wang’s 45 ER in 42 IP the Yankees team ERA goes from 4.38 to 4.08, which would be good for 3rd in the AL (obviously you could probably do the same for most other teams, where eliminating their worst pitcher improves the team ERA by a substantial amount).

Ha ha.  I did the same thing earlier today only I replaced Wang’s 45 ER with 21 ER.  It doesn’t change the end results much at all (4.10 if I remember correctly).

Is it not accurate to say he’s been a horrific defender compared to long-term SSs if not to SSs who can’t stick at the position?

I wouldn’t want to comment on whether that would be accurate or not.  But I would argue that when people use adjectives like “horrific” and many of the other descriptors that have been applied to Jeter’s defense over the years there is an implication that the grading is on an absolute, rather than a relative scale.  There are universes between “below average” and “horrific.”  It’s also worth noting that Jeter has played more games at SS than all but a handful of men in the history of MLB, so to call him the worst defender among that company is hardly a stinging critique.

Jeter’s ZR Runs Saved from 1995-2008:

That coincides fairly well with TotalZone, I think the only big difference 1999 they have a -9.  1996 was his rookie year, and while he doesn’t deserve a pass per-se I think we can understand an adjustment.  2007 he clearly had many injury woes.  So 2000-2003…what happened?  I guess we’ll have to wait for the biography to find out…

So 2000-2003…what happened?

Missed time in both 2000 and 2001, I believe with hamstring injuries, although one of them might have been an oblique.  2003 was the opening day shoulder separation.

2002 Jeter was playing with leg injuries all year as well. His leg took a pretty big knock at the end of the 01 World Series on that Mo throw at the end of the game and he continued racking up minor tweaks through out the 02 season because he never let his legs heal completely. He was basically walking wounded for what should have been his peak. He was better 24-26 and 31-33 than he was 27-29 or 28-30.

Cashman will do what he did with Mo and Posada.  Wait until after 2010 and see how Jeter is doing, and go from there.

Sure, and I’d love to see him him continue to age gracefully and earn a contract like the ones those guys got.  But what worries folks, and I’d say justifiably, is that Posada and Rivera got raises over generous previous contracts that had not been outrageous overpays, while Jeter has been getting $20M per year, and might think that a 4/$60M offer amounted to disrespect.  Personally, I’m happy to root for him to excel for the time left on his current contract and worry about the other stuff later.

For you old guys like myself. I did a little research about the first Yankee series in the homerdome in Minny which was in 1982. Yanks swept it and Nettles hit a GS in the 9th of the opener.  So its interesting (to me at least) that we started with a sweep and ended the same way.  I got a chance the other day to stroll out by the new park and it looks pretty nice. (about 70% done) Hope the darn schedulers don’t have Yanks playing there early in the year in 2010.

YEAR   RS   SB
1995   -3   0
1996   -13   14
1997   -2   23
1998   4     30
1999   0   19
2000 -13   22
2001 -18   27
2002 -16   32
2003 -14   11
2004   3     23
2005   1     14
2006   -5   34
2007 -20   15
2008   3   11

With the injury based speculation, I added Jeets stolen base to SG’s run saved ZR at [25], figuring SB would kinda be somewhat correlated. But not really.

Looking at all those Jeter SB’s, most of which were swiped when he was batting in front of great hitters (i.e. at times when you really don’t want to waste an out just to advance a baserunner), makes me want to ask this question:

How sick are you all of hearing (from the MSM) about how Brett Gardner gives the Yankees a dimension (speed) they haven’t had for a long time.

I, I am quite sick of it.

I mean really: Jeter, Soriano, A-Rod, Damon, even Knoblauch. . .  The recent Yankees have consistently had 2-3 players in the lineup who could be counted as legitimate SB threats.

I wonder what it is I’m actually annoyed about that is making me complain about this.

Scutaro’s defense is so good, he doesn’t even have to be anywhere near second base to force runners at second.

Frog, I think you need to go buy an ice cream or something. It’s summer!

I’ll start banning all the offenders right now.

In 2001 the mayor of Pequannock named a street in honor of Derek Jeter.
Two weeks later he had to change the name because no one dared cross Derek Jeter.

I mean really: Jeter, Soriano, A-Rod, Damon, even Knoblauch. . .  The recent Yankees have consistently had 2-3 players in the lineup who could be counted as legitimate SB threats.

Forget the recent past.  How about the present?  Gardner only leads the team by one SB and two attempts.

In fairness, however, Gardner is a different level of SB threat.  The Yankees have only had seven 50 SB seasons in their history.  Three of them by Rickey Henderson, who is the last Yankee to swipe 50 (1988).  Soriano is the last Yank to steal 40 (41 in 2002).  If Gardner ever earns a full-time starting gig, he could get into some pretty rarefied air.

Is it really possible Youk will beat Mauer? He isn’t going to hit .400, but he’s now the face of playing the game “right” (or white, if you prefer).

Is it really possible Youk will beat Mauer?

Maybe if Mauer takes a nose dive. But Mauer is destroying everyone right now. Even with the possible non-playoff penalty, I can’t see Youk beating Mauer.

[34] And if there is ever October baseball in their new open air stadium it will likely be insanely cold and a strong possibility of games being delayed by blizzards (seriously, I previously lived in that state, October = winter, so does April and early May for that matter)

I’m wondering if really bad conditions in those winter months might mean they move games back to the Metrodome for a couple days.  If a playoff series is to begin, say, October 10th, and there’s a big snowstorm or two moving through, they can’t just put it off a whole week.

[44] The dome will remain standing, as the Vikings will still be using it, so that would be an option for at least the first couple of years. However, rumor has it the Vikings want a new stadium so what is likely to happen is they end up getting new stadium (means the Dome is taken down), they move (means the Dome is taken down), or they get the Dome renovated to be a football only stadium.

Chances are that retreating to the Dome for October baseball will be taken out of the equation within a couple of years (if it was even viewed as an actual option by the team in the first place). In other words, get ready for the Twins hosting playoff baseball in Miller Park in Milwaukee.

Why didn’t they just make a retractable roof?

$$$?

[47] Yep.

Cashman will do what he did with Mo and Posada.  Wait until after 2010 and see how Jeter is doing, and go from there.

Except Cashman’s recommendation on the length of contract for Posada was ignored by the Steinbrenners. I hope they’ll let Cashman have the final say on Jeter.