To me, it looked like Wang was having a lot of trouble commanding his sinker, and that resulted in the move to more sliders.  His fastball was moving all over the place, resulting in a ton of 2-0 counts.  And I think he got a call on the 3-1 to Youklis with the bases loaded. 

It was great to see him battle through it, though.  Shows he can make those type of adjustments and win w/o his best stuff.

And I think he got a call on the 3-1 to Youklis with the bases loaded.

Yeah, that was not a strike.

It wasn’t a strike, but its nice to see a call go the Yankees way once in a while. There’s been so many close calls that have gone the other way (and some that weren’t so close that went the other way). Last night was a good game to watch. It was nice to see Wang go out there without his best stuff and still be able to get guys out when he needed to. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed like the Yankees were playing with an aggressiveness that they haven’t had in a while. It was actually a fun game to watch. I hope they can build a little momentum and start winning more often.

Let’s also not forget that if the Yanks, especially Jeter, pretend to play defense behind Wang, he’s probably only at 100 pitches or so after 6.3 innings.

Call me crazy, but I think Ortiz was safe even if Jeter hung on.  I think his foot was in there ahead of the tag.  The other play (the grounder) was a play that should’ve been made.

Matsui is not a good LF.  However, the ball that he looked bad on was scortched and I’m not convinced Melky catches that.

Having said all of that, the Yankee defense often turns decent Wang outings into bad ones.  It pisses me off too.

The Yanks didn’t benefit from the umps yesterday overall.  Jorge was safe on his double play ball and the ump was calling the outside pitch a strike all day.  Called it on a 3-1 count to Jeter too and some ridiculous strikes for Wakefield that were inside, outside, and in the dirt.

And I think he got a call on the 3-1 to Youklis with the bases loaded.

Yeah, that was not a strike.

Rapuano was all over the place for both teams last night.  I guess you take the good with the bad.

Don’t look now, Cano’s got 4 XBHs and a couple of multi hit games in his last 5. Maybe he’s finally starting to come out of it.

Probably not though.

If the Cardinals continue to struggle, they may start to sell off players.  Any chance the Yankees may take a fly at Chris Duncan later this year if it happens?  He can play first and has a hell of a lefty bat.  I know his OF defense has been shaky but I’m not sure how he fields at first.  If its decent, he could fit in well.

Hmm.

In a perfect world, they could get some Righty thump.  The lineup’s a tad lefty-heavy.

The game would have been much more enjoyable to watch if it hadn’t been for O’Brien’s blantant Red Sox bias.  I was sick of hearing him talk about the Red Sox farm system, how good Manny is in LF and the Red Sox timely hitting.

I almost fell off the couch when he made a case that Schilling should be in the Hall of Fame.  What made it even better was O’Brien was trying to get Sutcliffe, of all people, to agree with him.  I knew Sutcliffe just wanted to tell him to STFU.  I’m pretty sure Sut wanted to say “If I’m not in, neither should Schilling, jackass, look at the stats.”

kEEP IT UP JOHNNY WE NEED THE ENERGY AT THE TOP!!!

However, the ball that he looked bad on was scortched and I’m not convinced Melky catches that.

The YES announcers speculated that Matsui knew it was going off the wall and he tried to diek (sp?) the baserunners into thinking he was going to catch it.. if he did that it didn’t really work. But at least it’s a reason for him looking that way on that play.

I know his OF defense has been shaky but I’m not sure how he fields at first.  If its decent, he could fit in well.

He was a 1B all through MiLB but was blocked by Pujols. I haven’t yet found a site for ZR for MiLB, but I guess the hope is that Duncan is a 1B by trade and wasn’t put there because he can’t hit elsewhere.

The Yanks have Chris Duncan’s older brother, Shelley at Scanton and he’s already hit 12 HR.  Moreover, he’s a right-handed bat and a 1B.  Personally, I believe the Yanks should just give Andy Phillips another try.  He hits better against righties anyway and he and Phelps could platoon.  Also, Phillips is at least as good as Mientkiewicz defensively and won’t be any worse with the stick.

By the way, the next time the Yanks play against Wakefield, Melky should start in LF, not only because Matsui has awful numbers against the knuckleballer but it also gives the team another guy who can swipe a base if he gets on.

I almost fell off the couch when he made a case that Schilling should be in the Hall of Fame.  What made it even better was O’Brien was trying to get Sutcliffe, of all people, to agree with him.  I knew Sutcliffe just wanted to tell him to STFU.  I’m pretty sure Sut wanted to say “If I’m not in, neither should Schilling, jackass, look at the stats.”

i don’t know, i think Schilling is a lot closer than you might think.

i hate schilling with the passion of a million burning suns, but i’ve resigned myself to the fact that he will probably make the HoF.

his postseason performances and his ridiculous K/BB ratio probably make a pretty good case for him.

Schilling will probably get in the HoF.  He already has one sock in.

You Schilling is a borderline case, but his postseason heroics will push him in.

Mussina really needs to bleed while winning an important postseason game.

The “You” in the previous post came out of no where.

I blame it on lack of sleep.

his postseason performances and his ridiculous K/BB ratio probably make a pretty good case for him.

If you go by postseason performances, then you’d better put Petitte in before Schilling.  But we know no one at ESPN, the biggest Red Sox cheerleaders on the planet, is going to argue that.

I’m well aware that he has a good K/BB ratio, but I don’t think its HOF-worthy.  I don’t think you can find one analyst who will say Schilling has been one of the most dominant SPs in his era, which I believe is the #1 thing you look for in a HOF candidate.

Schilling’s two WS rings came when he was arguably the second-best pitcher on his team - Johnson was #1 in Arizona, Pedro was #1 in Boston.

Other nauseating Red Sox cheerleading from last night’s game on ESPN:

1.  O’Brien gushing about Manny’s play in left field.
2.  O’Brien lauding the Red Sox farm system.  Tell me exactly why Clay Bucholtz is the next Clemens?  Other than Pedroia, who on the Boston roster is home-grown regular?
3.  O’Brien and Sutcliffe talking about the clutch play of the Red Sox when they got men on base and failed to score, yet criticized the Yanks for doing the same - in a game where the Yanks were already up 6-2.

I’m pretty sure Gammons had a gun at Sutcliffe’e head, telling him to agree with all the pro-Boston crap O’Brien was spewing.

I’m glad I could watch the game on YES and NESN.  I flick back and forth whenever one or the other is being annoying about something.  “Let’s go down to Jeannie Zalasko” - flick.  Michael Kay talking for more than 10 seconds - flick.  And so on and so forth.  I didn’t even realize the game was on ESPN until about the 8th inning.

The mute button works wonders too.

Pettitte will almost cetainly win his 200th game this year.  If he pitches for another five or six seasons (or, better yet, if his elbow lets him and he decides he wants to), he could very well end up with 270 wins or thereabouts, making him one of the better lefties of his era - after RJ and Glavine.  As for Schilling, he’s not likeable, but he was absolutely dominant during his years in Arizona.  Moreover, Glavine was never the best pitcher on his own team when Smoltz and Maddux were starting but that’s hardly a knock against him.  Schilling is a borderline case, no doubt, but let’s not pretend he’s not even close.  That’s a bit foolhardy.

I seem to remember an article at Hardballtimes this off-season (don’t have time to look it up right now, maybe later) that compared Schilling to his contemporaries.  I don’t think there was anything to separate him from a half-dozen other pitchers who probably won’t (or won’t w/o doing a lot more than expected in the next few years) - Mike Mussina, Andy Pettitte, don’t remember them all.  The only thing he had above them, was the bloody-sock.  Which may be enough to get him in because - unlike say Don Larson - in addition to the post-season glory, he also does have a very-good career.

Personally, I think if he belongs in, Moose probably does too.  But I’ll admit to a bias.

2.  O’Brien lauding the Red Sox farm system.  Tell me exactly why Clay Bucholtz is the next Clemens?  Other than Pedroia, who on the Boston roster is home-grown regular?

Not on the Boston roster currently, but traded from their farm system and are in the majors now within the last couple years: Hanley Ramirez, Annibal Sanchez, Cla Meredith, Kelly Shoppach. I think you’ve heard of the first one on the list.

Ramirez is a real talent and Sanchez pitched a no hitter last season but he’s currently struggling with injuries, while Shoppach is a backup catcher.  Cla Meredith is a decent middle reliever, nothing more.  If that’s the cream of Boston’s farm system, it’s certainly no great shakes.  As for Bucholtz, he’s doing a nice job in the minors but at least four Yankee pitchers are doing as least as well or better (i.e. Horne, Smith, Kennedy, Joba and maybe even Marquez).  Moreover, that’s excluding Clippard and Hughes.

Schilling isn’t a shoe-in, but I think he deserves to go into the Hall.  In the current era, I’d say only Pedro and Big Unit have been more dominant.

As for Wang:  if he can build on his performance last night, and use that slider to get the occasional strikeout while ALSO commanding his power sinker to get ground balls, then he could become truly dominant.

2.  O’Brien lauding the Red Sox farm system.  Tell me exactly why Clay Bucholtz is the next Clemens?  Other than Pedroia, who on the Boston roster is home-grown regular?

Not that I’m stick up for this clown, but to be fair.. Varitek, Papelbon and Youkilis.

BTW- Has anyone noticed Youk is becoming pretty good against us?

Shilling will probably go to the Hall.  His stats might be borderline on their own, but add in the championships and the bloody sock, and he gets in.

I dislike the guy, but I’d have loved to have gotten him instead of RJ…

If you go by postseason performances, then you’d better put Petitte in before Schilling.

i think you are underestimating Schilling’s postseason resume and having a bit of selective memory about Pettitte’s.  Pettitte’s been more good than bad, but he’s had a bunch of stinkers mixed in with his gems.

Pettitte:  14-9 212 IP, 4.08 ERA
Schilling: 8-2 109.3 IP, 2.06 ERA

Varitek, Papelbon and Youkilis

Varitek was traded from the Mariners to the Sox. 

but those other 2 guys are pretty good.

Check out Schilling’s numbers and such here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schilcu01.shtml

I don’t like him either, but scroll down to the “HOF Monitor”... it looks as if he is better than a borderline case.

The hilarious thing is, look at his transaction history… egad!!

January 14, 1986: Drafted by the Boston Red Sox in the 2nd round of the 1986 amateur draft. Player signed May 30, 1986.

July 29, 1988: Traded by the Boston Red Sox with Brady Anderson to the Baltimore Orioles for Mike Boddicker.

January 10, 1991: Traded by the Baltimore Orioles with Steve Finley and Pete Harnisch to the Houston Astros for Glenn Davis.

April 2, 1992: Traded by the Houston Astros to the Philadelphia Phillies for Jason Grimsley.

... Glenn Davis??? uh…

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/davisgl01.shtml

Soory to change the subject:
Where is Jesus Montero?
Wherever I look, I just can’t seem to find any stats on him.
Is he injured or something?
Thanks

i think you are underestimating Schilling’s postseason resume and having a bit of selective memory about Pettitte’s.  Pettitte’s been more good than bad, but he’s had a bunch of stinkers mixed in with his gems.

I’m just arguing that O’Brien’s case was Schilling has won two WS rings.  Petitte has a couple more than that.  If Schilling gets in because of his WS rings, then you can make a case that Petitte does as well.

I don’t buy that reasoning.  I also don’t buy that Schilling is a HOF shoe-in, as ESPN leads us to believe.  You can make a case that he gets in, but he’s certainly not a lock.  Personally, if I were a voter, he’s not getting in.  He’s had a couple of great years, and many years where he wasn’t that great.  Suspicious that his great years came AFTER most pitchers start their decline.  {cough} roids {cough}

My point was, and is, ESPN is so pro-Boston it’s ridiculous.

Thanks to yup for reminding us that Varitek came from Seattle.  Actually, he was supposed to be with the Twins, but he was too much of a pu$$y to sign with them.

And I wouldn’t brag about Youkilis just yet.  Let’s see him produce over the next couple of years before annointing him as “great,” as ESPN already has done.

Papelbon?  He’s cooked in two years.  Those arm problems aren’t going away.  Think Gregg Olson from the late 80s-early 90s Baltimore Oriole teams.

It was revealed in the postgame interviews that Guidry had a lot to do with altering Wang’s thought process about his pitch pattern, which is also encouraging.

Phil, Jesus Montero will most likely play in the Gulf Coast league, which doesn’t begin until June.

The “rumor” that that Yankees would consider trading Giambi for the package that George King mentions (Figgins and Molina) is laughable. They can’t afford to lose Giambi’s bat given the possibility that their OF will remain unproductive all season, and it would leave them without any credible production from either 1B or DH.

Peter Abraham recently referred to Phelps as a AAAA player. If that’s true, Mientkiewicz is AA caliber.

As for Wang, I think one of the more impressive things about him was the fact that he kept his cool in the face of some very sloppy defense.  He could teach Mussina a thing or two in that department.

Pete Abraham also said (along with various other clowns) that Cano needs to be domoted to AAA.  Why, so Miguel Cairo can hit .022 with a weaker arm and less range?  Sometimes, more than a few grains of salt are warranted.

Regarding Phelps, Abraham said he was a AAAA player because Wagner made him look bad.  This, despite the fact that he was 3 for 5 in that game with a double.  On the whole, that’s just not a very astute statement.  Is every guy Wagner strikes out a AAAA player?  Wagner, after all, is fairly tough closer.  Let’s also not forget that Phelps hit a HR off Joe Borowski, the Indians’ closer.  While he’s no ALl-Star, I don’t think AAAA players are lining up to knock him around either.

Lastly, why does George King feel the Yanks require “much needed speed?”  Damon, Jeter, Abreu and A-Rod are all capable of stealing 30 bases.

I’m just arguing that O’Brien’s case was Schilling has won two WS rings.  Petitte has a couple more than that.  If Schilling gets in because of his WS rings, then you can make a case that Petitte does as well.

ok, gotcha.  i understand.

there is a difference between looking at Schilling’s postseason numbers, which are stellar, and just saying “count the ringzzzzz”

Curt Schilling has an ERA of 3.44, WHIP of 1.14, 3,062 career strikeouts, only 703 career BBs, and an ERA+ of 127 (that’s tied 41st all time). He has 2 WS rings (whether he was the ace on the teams or not). In 109 1/3 post season starts, he has a 2.06 ERA, 104 Ks, and 22 BBs. I know the guy is a jerk, but I think he is at least worth consideration for the HoF. There are plenty of other guys who deserve it, maybe even more than Schilling (RJ, Maddux, Smoltz, Clemens, etc), but he’s worth consideration.

“ESPN is so pro-Boston it’s ridiculous.”

Sox fans fervently believe it’s the other way ‘round.  Fans of other teams think ESPN sucks up to both the Sox and Yanks, ignoring their teams.

You know what?  When it comes to broadcasting games, ESPN sucks, regardless of bias.  That’s all I really care about.  Seriously, I’d much rather watch NESN.

There are plenty of other guys who deserve it, maybe even more than Schilling (RJ, Maddux, Smoltz, Clemens, etc), but he’s worth consideration.

I think that is part of the problem.  When deciding on the HOF, how many players from one position that played concurrently can you have?  I don’t think there is any perfect answer to that, but probably after you get past the first 5 or 6 (for pitchers, less for position players), it gets difficult.  Especially when the next 5 or 6 don’t have too much the distinguishes them.

Now, I don’t know the answer to how many pitchers from the late 80’s-present should be in the Hall.  And I agree Schilling should get considered - especially since his career isn’t done yet - but I don’t know if he is a shoo-in.

Youkilis, by the way, was drafted by Oakland and spent some time in their system before Boston acquired him - he was one of the players Michael Lewis focused on in Moneyball.

I happen to be in Denmark for a spell - thanks, as ever, to the site for making the yanks followable in detail from afar.

Schilling definitely WILL get in, regardless of how many numbers you guys throw around. I’m lukewarm on him for political reasons, though I Officially Love Everyone from the 2004 Sox until one of them goes after my kids or something. But once you factor in the media nonsense that afflicts the voting, he sails through, eh? Two WS, one bloody sock, and numbers that won’t dissuade any of the half-wits who do the voting.

To YATT: If you’re going to predict arm injuries to Papelbon, you might want to stay indoors during the next electrical storm. Heh heh… and as for Youk, his body of work is going on three years now. He’s one of those players that looks a lot better in person than on the stat sheet. It’s hard to call anyone on the Sox “underappreciated” given the attention they get, but Youkilis is quickly developing into one of the main arteries of the Sox’ heart.

To YATT: If you’re going to predict arm injuries to Papelbon, you might want to stay indoors during the next electrical storm. Heh heh… and as for Youk, his body of work is going on three years now. He’s one of those players that looks a lot better in person than on the stat sheet. It’s hard to call anyone on the Sox “underappreciated” given the attention they get, but Youkilis is quickly developing into one of the main arteries of the Sox’ heart.

I’m not predicting them.  He’s already had them.  Also, according to the Boston media, he was slated for the rotation to ease his arm problems.  Now he’s back in the pen, the place that caused his problems to start in the first place.

Youkilis’ body of work is good, not great - and he hasn’t played a full three seasons yet.  Don’t get a papelboner over him just yet.

Youkilis, by the way, was drafted by Oakland and spent some time in their system before Boston acquired him - he was one of the players Michael Lewis focused on in Moneyball.

Actually, if I recall, he had always been in Boston’s system.  There was a chapter in Moneyball on Beane trying to get Omar Minaya to get Youkilis and flip him to the A’s when he was trading Cliff Floyd to the Red Sox in 2002, but that ended up falling through.

Re Kevin Youkilis—he was NOT drafted by Oakland.  He was certainly mentioned in Moneyball—by Beane as a guy he wished he had—and he was the kind of player that fit Beane’s undervalued profile (OBP-heavy, tools-lite) at the time, but Boston drafted him.  According to his baseball cube page (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/Y/Kevin-Youkilis.shtml) he went straight from U of Cincinnati in college to the Lowell Spinners when he was drafted in 2001.

Mussina had better bring his ‘A’ game tonight. I’m getting tired of his act. Suck it up and get over it; he is pitching on an extra days rest. Wow!

Strange that Torre pitched Wang in regular turn and gave Mussina an extra day off, what with his [Mussina’s] usual reaction to that. They both pitched Wednesday last week.

My worry for tonight is that Moose will labor and only get through 5 innings meaning the bullpen will be heavily used…again.  The only good bullpen arm not used last night was Mo and there’s no bridge to him now.  L-Viz should is the new run-fairy so that’s not who you want to see in the 6-8th innings.  Henn is about the only other guy available with rest.

You want Mussina to bring his A game, which is fine.  But perhaps you ought to ask Torre to manage his A game in this series as well, i.e., no more Proctor (let the poor guy rest and recover his velocity), leave Bruney in when he’s not being hit hard and, by the way, Myers doesn’t automatically have to face Ortiz in the late innings - especially with Papi hitting .289 against him with a HR.  Actually, somewhat suprisingly, Farnsworth has much better numbers against him.  As for whiney old Mussina, I’m sure Torre gave him the option of pitching on regular rest (he’s the senior member of the staff after all and Wang most likely could care less) but the old Pennsylvanian opted for the extra day off.

Henn is in AAA, Cutter.  We’ve got Ron Villone in the house.  And, of course, I’ll be ecstatic if Mussina goes six but most likely we’ll only get five.  In additon, I hope the guys behind him don’t screw anything up.  I don’t expect them to suddenly become gold glovers, just to make the plays that come their way.

Oh crap, that’s right.  We will no doubt see Villone tonight.  Put money on it.

Down at Scranton, Omir Santos is hitting .296 with a .770 OPS - nothing spectacular but he’s a catch and throw guy, like Nieves, and perhaps could get a hit every now and then.  It’s at least worth some consideration.  Also, Santos was the regular catcher at AA last year when Hughes and Clippard were there, so he could caddy either of those guys - both of whom he ought to know quite well.

Yeah, the bullpen tonight could be a little scary. No way Mussina goes beyond six innings. Torre panicked last night and hit the Proctor button, so there will be at least two innings that Myers, Villone, L-Viz and maybe Bruney will have to get through. In fact I won’t be surprised if we see ALL of them tonight.

Chris Britton sure would be nice to have this evening.  Unfortunately, he’s pitching for Scranton.  Perhaps the team’s best chance would be to knock Tavarez early, get out to a big lead and hope the assorted bullpen pieces have plenty of room for error.

there is an off-day on thursday.  if the score is close Torre won’t be, and shouldn’t be, afraid to go to Proctor, Bruney, Farns, and Mo. 

if the yanks can win a game against Boston, you go for it. 

if Moose goes 6 i’ll be ecstatic, but i don’t see it happening.  i think he’ll go 5 with 3-4 ER.

interesting article about Damon on yankees.com, he’s lost a bunch of weight and is now lighter than he has been in years.  it’s interesting b/c he was looking pretty slow early on.  if he can get going, it makes the lineup that much better.

I would avoid using Proctor, mostly because he’d be ineffective.  Yesterday he was topping out at 92 and had no command.  Chances are, things won’t improve today, pitching his third straight day.  Bruney and Farnsworth, though, should definately be available, as should Mariano.  And I agree, the Yanks should do anything necessary to win these games.  Using Proctor, however, won’t help them win.  Last night they were lucky in that Proctor got an out with sub-par stuff.  Tempting fate again won’t be a wise move.

Proctor needs to be off-limits this game, yeah.  Bruney, Mariano, Farnsworth and (gulp) Villone should be available.  Vizcaino’s still on the team?  Sigh.

Papelbon?  He’s cooked in two years.  Those arm problems aren’t going away.  Think Gregg Olson from the late 80s-early 90s Baltimore Oriole teams.

YATT: that’s not predicting arm injuries? I know his history: he had his shoulder pop out because the muscles around it got fatigued. Somewhere in New Hampshire right now there’s a nun saying a prayer for that muscle group. All of New England is obsessed with his health… but it sounded to me like the doctors don’t really expect he’ll ever have that trouble again. It wasn’t a tear or stretch or anything else along those lines.

I don’t think ESPN is biased towards the Red Sox per se, but yeah, O’Brien was biased last night, which I found strange.

Schilling is definitely in, due to the media stuff, which is too bad, if only because Moose likely WON’T get in, based on those same media things. So that’ll be unfortunate. That being said, Schilling will be far from the worst pitcher in the Hall of Fame. He’s borderline, but I don’t think it insults the integrity of the Hall of Fame to include him.

And yeah, Schilling’s transactional history is hilarious. I remember that folks were ripping that Glenn Davis trade THEN. Also, remember, the Grimsley/Schilling deal was seen as about even at the time, as Grimsley was a top prospect back then. It was more of a “prove it” type deal.

If Clemens pitches Wed the Yankee rotation could be Mussina(tonight), Petit, off day, Clippard(please not Desalvo), Wang, Mussina, and Clemens on Monday if everything works out.  Not too shabby.

Torre said Clippard will get the start on Friday.

Proctor had a four day ‘holiday’ last week. Just because his velocity was ‘off’ last night does not mean he cannot be effective for an inning tonight. He seems to have that type of arm.

When you have pitchers who cannot give innings, what’s a manager to do? When Clemens returns, the bullpen will be way overused. That is a real concern going forward.

Thanks for the correction on youkilis - my apologies.