I don’t worry about Wang when he gets outs without looking sharp—he rarely looks that sharp under any circumstances. I worry about him when he gives up fly balls, because that is when he looks bad and IS bad. He kept the ball down, only walked a couple and even many of the hits were on the ground, so I think he is still pretty much the same guy who has been winning games the last two plus years. Which probably means another 15-19 wins.

Indeed.  Just as Wang benefited from some slick defense, he was also victimized by some very cheap hits - although that sort of thing is par for the course when it comes to groundball pitchers.

As for this evening, I’m not expecting anything from Mussina and hoping to be pleasantly surprised.  One of the great things about Wang is that he’s almost always good for seven innings, meaning all the middle relievers will be ready tonight.

This is just nit picking at this point, b/c it was a great game, but I was less than pleased with Cano’s lack of patience at the plate.  It felt like he was swinging at every pitch thrown at him.  On the other hand, Melky had two great at bats where he fell behind in the count but kept fouling pitches off until he got the count full (I think).  He really had a solid game all around.

I love Giambi batting behind Arod.  Arod’s the type of player who should be selective in his stolen base attempts.  With Giambi working deep into counts, Arod can wait for his pitch to go on.

Agreed about those cheapies off Wang…it comes with the turf when you have a 13-6 GB-FB ratio.  It was nice to see, although some of those FBs were knocked pretty hard.

I enjoyed Girardi going out to Wang to tell him to empty the tank on the last out of the 7th, and loved how Joba just went with straight gas at 0-2 on Thomas.  Mo looked great, too.

How pissed was Halladay on Melky’s short porcher?

I wouldn’t necessarily say Cano was impatient yesterday as Halladay is a guy who pounds the zone.  Even when he’s off the plate, he doesn’t miss by much.  Many Yanks who took pitches went 0-1 then 0-2.  With a guy like that, it’s not necessarily a bad idea to swing early in the count.

As for Thomas there is no way he can catch up to a high 97 mph fastball these days so that made far more sense that any of Joba’s breaking pitches (as Mark Wohlers and Jim Leyritz would most likely agree).  Today, however, Thomas must be licking his chops at the prospect of seeing 86 mph “heaters.”

By the way Thomas owns Mussina (.375 .462 .825 1.287). He has the highest OPS against Mussina.

Melky would have had three phenominal catches but he definetly overran that short line drive in the ... I believe it was the 7th… too many beers and too much rowdiness in the stands..ha ha ha

Halladay was ahead a good portion of the night… I can’t say that I remember Cano being all that impatient, but like IE stated above, Halladay was pounding it in the zone all night so I would go with aggressive as opposed to impatient.

Hopefully, Burnett will be wild early and the Yanks can muster 3 or 4 runs off him before he finds a groove. 

By the way, does anyone know whether Shelley is serving his suspension to begin the season?  It would make sense as the Blue Jays have all right-handed starters and he wouldn’t be slated to be in the lineup the first three games anyway.

I enjoyed the game but couldn’t help but feel like we were still looking at the B version of this team. They came off a bit rustier looking than the Jays even, but we got some breaks. I know it’s only one game, but Jeter still looks pretty slow in the field. At least everyone’s healthy and moving on the basebaths. It’s going to be a great summer.

anyone surprised that giambi was still out in the field in the 9th, especially considering he made the last out in the 8th?

Personally, I thought Ensberg or Duncan should have pinch hit for Giambi in the 8th.  And defensively, perhaps Betemit would have been a better option but given the way Giambi flashed the leather all game Girardi probably wanted to show a little confidence in his fellow Italian-American.

i thought Jeter looked fine in the field.  there were several balls chopped up the middle that i thought “oh crap” when they went over Wang’s head, but he fielded them. 

he’s getting a pass for his AB in the 8th though, what a piece of crap.  you have to get that run in.

I can’t agree more.Nothing is more frustrating than watching a man stand on third for three outs.I hope Girardi spoke to Jeter and Bobby about this as a reminder of what the “little things” are..

By the way, does anyone know whether Shelley is serving his suspension to begin the season?

I think I read today that his appeal-hearing is today, and that “inside sources” from the Players Association think he’ll end up with just a fine; no suspension.  We’ll have to wait and see.

he’s getting a pass for his AB in the 8th though, what a piece of crap.  you have to get that run in.

I also that Jeter looked fine in the field.  He did *seem* to be moving left better.  I also expected him to get the run in from third, but two other guys failed as well.  Maybe DJ’s clutch-meter doesn’t kick in until May…

I hope Girardi spoke to Jeter and Bobby about this as a reminder of what the “little things” are..

What’s he going to say, next time don’t hit a weak grounder to the pitcher?

Speaking of which, Abreu could have been pinch hit for in the 8th as well since he doesn’t lefties all that well - although all he had to do was ground one to the shortstop or second baseman.

He is going to say nice win but Mariano needs more than one run insurance given that he is no longer lights out.As we have seen over the last few years one run is not enough for Mo.Furthermore it is pretty basic to get a fly ball to the outfield just ask Paul Oneil or Tino Martinez if you want .

</i>Speaking of which, Abreu could have been pinch hit for in the 8th as well since he doesn’t lefties all that well - although all he had to do was ground one to the shortstop or second baseman. </i>

i thought of that, but then that would mean putting Duncan into RF in a 1 or 2 run game.

i guess that’s an argument for having Gardner on the roster over Duncan.

As we have seen over the last few years one run is not enough for Mo

well, except for those 50+ times he appeared last year without giving up a run.

In regards to Wang, I always tell people at the games I go to (I’ve seen Wang live 3 times, once each at Minnesota, Chicago and Kansas City - ie people unfamiliar with the essence of Wang) that you’ll know by the end of the first inning what kind of day Wang is going to have.  Just watch whether batters are putting the ball on the ground or in the air.

I don’t think Duncan, playing in Yankee Stadium’s small RF is that much of a defensive downgrade over Abreu - especially when the chance of adding an insurance run for the bottom of the 9th is so high.  I wouldn’t pinch hit for Damon, for example, because you want his defense in left, but for Abreu, that seems much more reasonable.

Duncan made a hell of a play last year in the playoffs.He has a better arm than Abreu.

...er…which Mo of the last few years are you talking about, Mike?  I’m guessing you’re talking about the one from April of last year.  Because apart from that month, with his 10.57 ERA and 2 blown saves out of 3 opportunities, he sported a 1.74 ERA from 2005-2007, with 106 of 115 save opportunities converted.  Something like 201 k’s to 38 walks over 217 innings.  You know, apart from that one month.  So, um, what years were those again?

Here is a scenario: bottom of the ninth Fenway park the heart of the lineup coming up would you rather a one run lead or a two run lead? That is all that I am saying it seems the Yankees have always given Mo the slimmest of margins and he has produced.When you can get a runner in it should’t be oh well Mo will protect the one run lead.And that is the way the Yankees have always played it especially in 2004 ALCS.

ALso what was Marianos ERA last year???

It was 3.15.  In any case, I am confident seening Mariano on the mound with a one run lead in the 9th, especially against the Blue Jays, even more particularly facing Overbay, Hill and Scutaro.  Even so, an insurance run is always nice.

at least the MoJob was complete (mo and jobba moppin up!)

Obviously I’m not saying that a one run lead is preferable to a two run lead, Mike.  Maybe Dusty Baker could find reason for it, but I can’t seem to consider one.  So touche.  I’d rather be up two runs.  I simply took issue to your statement: “...given that he is no longer lights out.  As we have seen over the last few years one run is not enough for Mo.”  That’s simply inaccurate.  His 3.15 ERA last year was due primarily to his brutal April.  But one month does not a “few years” make, and otherwise, he was his usual dominant self.  His peripherals further support his continued effectiveness.

I guess you’re suggesting that Jeter and Abreu somehow weren’t trying to get Damon in from third?  That they got lazy, knowing that Mo was in the bullpen?  You don’t think that’s a bit of a stretch?

I don’t think Duncan, playing in Yankee Stadium’s small RF is that much of a defensive downgrade over Abreu - especially when the chance of adding an insurance run for the bottom of the 9th is so high

i can’t back this up, but my gut reaction is that Abreu is a much better OFer than Duncan. 

if that isn’t the case, then i’d concede your point. 

that said, Girardi should probably be giving Ensberg and Duncan as many ABs as he can against LHP in April and May and see if one of them wins the spot. if Ensberg shows he is healthy enough to approach his career line against LHP, i’d consider sending Duncan down for someone like Gardner or Lane.

Abreu is a better OF than Duncan, at least in part because he’s faster and has more range.  In Yankee Stadium’s RF, this is much less of an issue and I would be willing to sacrifice a tinge of defense in order to vastly increase my chances of scoring a run with one inning left in a game.  In any case, I’m basing this purely on what I’ve seen rather than zone rating, which wouldn’t be very useful for Shelley anyway due to sample size issues.

Late to the discussion but…

If you guys didn’t think Jeter looked sharper and faster at SS than he has since 04 then you guys were watching a different game than I was.

I think Melky is slowly going to make those people who don’t think he has the tools to play CF disappear. Those first two ABs were awesome too. I’m telling you guys, Melky hits leadoff by the end of the season, at least against lefties.

Jeter and Abreu shit the bed in the 8th. Jeter especially needs to have a better AB against a lefty.

Abreu is a much better OFer than Duncan. No numbers or scouting reports can make me believe otherwise. One is an athletic, fast 11 year Major League vet who has played OF all his life and has a history of playing above average to average defense. The other is a bulky, slow, career minor league 1st baseman who occasionally plays OF.

I wonder what Ensberg looks like in the OF. Either he or Duncan really should start in RF against lefties.

I think Melky is slowly going to make those people who don’t think he has the tools to play CF disappear. Those first two ABs were awesome too

agree about Jeter’s defense last night. 

i like Melky, but there is something about his swing that still gives me pause.

anyone surprised that giambi was still out in the field in the 9th, especially considering he made the last out in the 8th?

Pleasantly suprised.  I think it was a good show of confidence.  Giambi looked great last night, physically.  He’s lost like 20-30 lbs. and looked really agile at 1B.  If he can avoid those foot problems, he could have a monster year.  Gotta love the salary drive!

I’d prefer it was Lane, if they were going to send for anyone.  Gardner, if he is to develop, probably ought to play every day.

It definitely couldn’t have hurt to put a righty in to hit for Abreu.  It seemed like an ideal time for Ensberg to come in.

If the Yanks want to bring up a speedy 5th OF, which they admittedly won’t, the best choice would be Justin Christian who is 28 and doesn’t need to play everyday in the minors at this point. 

As for Melky, I’d love to see him hit well enough to play a corner.  I haven’t seen Austin Jackson, but he’s supposed to be very smooth in CF.  In any case, Melky’s OPS+ is 339 thus far, so he’s on his way.

Gardner, if he is to develop, probably ought to play every day.

I guess it wouldn’t be a bad thing to see if Gardner can develop any pop. It took Ellsbury (Disclaimer: Ellsbury is a better prospect than Gardner and only mention him because they are both fast CFers without any power) an extra year, relative to Gardner, to show some power. I don’t think it’s likely, but giving him a chance at 23 to show if there is some upside could be worthwhile.

Melky confuses me alot at the plate. Last night he looked good for two ABs and then was simply overpowered by Halladay in his third AB. I don’t think he’ll ever scare a pitcher. I do think he can annoy the pitcher into giving up. He’s got pretty decent bat control and if he focuses on his approach and doesn’t jump out of his shoes to try and get those high fastballs, I think he can be the kind of player Damon was before the 20 HR seasons, with less speed.

Gardner is 24 and will turn 25 in August.  I believe it’s safe to say he won’t be developing all that much pop.  The main thing with Gardner is whether he’ll be able to get on base with any sort of regularity in the major leagues.  After all, pitchers will lay the ball over the plate rather than walk him given his lack of power.  If he can still manage to be a pest and foul off pitches before working some walks he will be a useful player since he will drive pitchers crazy once he reaches base.  Whether he can do this remains to be seen, though.

Gardner is 24 and will turn 25 in August.  I believe it’s safe to say he won’t be developing all that much pop.

I didn’t realize he was 24, you’re right, he’s as ready as he’ll ever be.

I wonder what Ensberg looks like in the OF.

I dunno, but he’s looked pretty crappy at first base.

Agreed.  On the other hand, he’s played one regular season game there his entire career.  Ensberg is a right-handed pinch hitter more than a defensive 1B.  That job goes to Betemit.

I didn’t realize he was 24, you’re right, he’s as ready as he’ll ever be.

IE said he’ll probably never hit for much power, not that he can’t get any better.  He hit 260/343/331 in about 200 AAA PAs.  If he doesn’t get any better, then he’s never anything more than a fifth outfielder.

Ensberg is a right-handed pinch hitter more than a defensive 1B.

It will be interesting to see just how often Girardi pinch hits for anybody in this lineup.  As for the 8th inning last night, I thought he should have squeezed with either Jeter or Abreu.  The “NL-style” articles would have written themselves for a month.

I think Cash has just been pumping Gardner’s value, maybe to get another piece before the deadline. Perhaps he would be useful for another team…

As for Jeter, I’d like to see wang’s hit chart but I definitely saw one or two balls going to his right side that I think an average shortstop could have picked up. If that’s as bad as it gets, not really a problem, but he still makes me nervous. You’re all totally right about not getting Damon home. But, for all of their flaws the Yankees are still on a pace to go 162-0!

as was said already, haha

Yeah, overall, it’s tough to complain about last night.  Wang was more than effective, he was excellent.  The defense played well.  And Joba and Mo were outstanding.  Consider that they were hitting against one of the league’s premier pitchers, and it was a solid, solid win.

IE said he’ll probably never hit for much power, not that he can’t get any better.  He hit 260/343/331 in about 200 AAA PAs.  If he doesn’t get any better, then he’s never anything more than a fifth outfielder.

I meant this year, not last year. Because his power is so incosequential, I don’t know that he’s going to get much better after this.

As for Jeter, I’d like to see wang’s hit chart but I definitely saw one or two balls going to his right side that I think an average shortstop could have picked up.

I’m going to assume one of those was the Thomas ball. No way anyone gets to that one unless they’re positioned out there. No one gets to it from where Jeter started. Don’t know which the other one was. ZR says Jeter got 6 out of 7 balls in his zone last night.

I’m going to assume one of those was the Thomas ball. No way anyone gets to that one unless they’re positioned out there. No one gets to it from where Jeter started. Don’t know which the other one was. ZR says Jeter got 6 out of 7 balls in his zone last night.

one of those funny things about ZR:  ZR says A-Rod only got to 3 out of 5 in his zone last night.  one was probably the swinging bunt in the first inning that he had no play on but to try to let it roll foul.

the other was probably that one he dove for and just got a glove on and never would have had a play at 1B on.

2 unfieldable balls, .600 ZR.

i know these things tend to wash out with larger sample, just having fun with small sample sizes…

Melky has a .750 ZR because he overran that one ball by Aaron Hill.  On the other hand, the big feline otherwise known as Jason Giambi is sitting pretty at 1.000.

I dont think last night could have been any better. I would rather win a one run game after a season where it was “feast or famine” as michael kay likes to say. Without checking I believe we have stomped out our opening day opponents in the last few years. A nice ass whooping is great to put on a team every once in a while but in the playoffs it is the one run games that make champions.

Does Girardi use Giambi at first base back to back? I would think that they wouldn’t use him when Wang starts save for opening day.

Also, has anyone else seen the John Kruk parody of Joba bug spray incident. As if he needed another reason for me to hate his fat ass.

Giambi probably ought to start at 1B today as Mussina will need all the run support he can muster.  On the other hand, though, Mussina seems to be unnerved by errors more than any other pitcher on the Yankee staff.  Yet again, Burnett has a tendency to be wild sometimes so Giambi makes sense.

According to Peter Abraham, Giambi is indeed penciled in at 1B.

I’m happy with Giambi going. Tought righthander vs. all the lefty Yankee bats. Giambi made a sweet scoop, a nice leap and even managed to shovel the ball to second. There will times to spot him. Against AJ Burnett early in the season doesn’t seem to be like a good time to me, even considering Moose’s fickleness.

it is the one run games that make champions

This bit of old-time baseball gospel was thoroughly debunked by Bill James more than 20 years ago.  Boston was 22-28 in one run games last year, and they somehow managed a championship.  Texas was 26-18 in one run games, and finished last.  You can find championship teams like the 2005 White Sox that did remarkably well in one-run games, but you can’t find a consistent correlation between winning the close ones and winning the whole thing.

Is Giambi prone to errors?  I thought he was just useless in getting to balls in play.  He’s always had a reputation as being good at digging balls out of the dirt.  Mussina’s a flyball pitcher, anyway, so why not have G in there?  His bat should justify it.

Is Giambi prone to errors?

From 2002-2007 the average 1B made 1847 errors in 50303 chances (3.7%).  Over that stretch Giambi has made 27 errors in 540 chances (5%).  So he’s a little more likely to make an error than a typical 1B.  I do think his range is an issue as well.

I do think you’re right Dave that he scoops bad throws pretty well, but I don’t have the data to confirm that.

A healthier and slimmer Giambi is probably a better defender than what we’re used to out of him, but I too was surprised to see him out there in the ninth.  Then again, the last Joe that managed the team used to annoy us when he took Giambi out too early.

This bit of old-time baseball gospel was thoroughly debunked by Bill James more than 20 years ago

dcristal qualified it as: but in the playoffs it is the one run games that make champions.

How many one run games did Boston win against Colorado last fall?

Yeah, I guess I’d rather too much Giambi than not enough.  I’ll bet those errors are from when he tries to throw the ball.  Oof, that just isn’t pretty to watch.  I was absolutely astonished to hear that he played a lttle 3B.

There goes GiambE-3.

How many one run games did Boston win against Colorado last fall?

The same number that the Yankees won in 2001 against Arizona.  The idea that one run games make champions is one of those things that is always true except when it isn’t.  Like good pitching beating good hitting.