I believe the expression the kids are using is “woot.”

Its about time

I’ve been saying all season that I did not believe the red sox are a better team than the yankees (although i was pretty quiet about it in May and June). 

Player for player, the Yanks have superior talent.  It’s amazing what a little stability in the starting rotation and bullpen can do for a team.

:banana:

Peter Gammons just said that Kennedy is coming up to pitch this week.  Have the Yankees confirmed this?

Where did you here that?

Apparently it’s down to Karstens or Kennedy to replace Clemens.
link

SG, that’s the most beautiful post I’ve ever read on this site in a long time.

By which I mean, it’s really heartwarming to see the way the Jays have been so steady all season long.

BTW, with today’s win, the Yankees became the first 2007 team to score 700 runs.

Only four other teams even have 600—the Tigers (668), the Phillies (635), Boston (603), and Colorado (601).

The Yanks could very well win or lose the division and/or wild card by one game.  That being the case, Kennedy makes far more sense than Karstens, especially as the Yanks will be facing Baltimore’s three best pitchers.  Let’s hope good sense rather than veteran-o-philia prevails.

In other news, José Tabata is on the 7 day DL - most likely with a wrist injury.  That’s probably what’s been depriving him of his power this season.  Perhaps the Yanks need to shut him down until next spring in order to banish that problem once and for all.

Let’s hope good sense rather than veteran-o-philia prevails.

If it comes down to Kennedy and Karstens, who is the veteran. I just hope they decide that moving Kennedy onto the 40-man is worth dropping some chump like Brower.

Kennedy makes far more sense than Karstens, especially as the Yanks will be facing Baltimore’s three best pitchers.  Let’s hope good sense rather than veteran-o-philia prevails.

“Veteran-o-philia”? Jeff Karstens is 24 years old…..

I take a trip to Seattle for the weekend and don’t get to see one minute of the Cleveland series.  Of course, they sweep.
I’m scheduling weekend trips from now until October.

Pags13, I share your intuitive feeling that the Yankees are at least as good as the Red Sox.  For good measure, the Yankees have been very unlucky this year at turning runs into wins (by about 8 wins), arguing that the standings have been deceptive.

The only fly in the ointment for that argument is that according to Baseball Prospectus (http://baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php), the Red Sox have been fairly unlucky at turning offensive elements into runs (they would expect to have scored another 42 runs from their hitting, more than offsetting the 20 runs fewer than expected that their opponents have scored given their hitting) and have played against stronger than average pitching so far this year (adjusting by strength of schedule adds 14 runs to the Red Sox and 2 to their opponents).  The only significant sized run element adjustment for the Yankees points to them having given up 30 runs fewer than one would expect from their opponents’ hits, walks et al.

Adding all this together, the Yankees can’t claim all that much overall bad luck.  Fortunately, it looks like they soon won’t need to.  May the trend continue.

any chance of throwing a poll up on the site to see how many fans wrote off the season?  i know i’m one.

I would venture to say that the Yankee offense is better than Boston’s while the starting pitching is now as good or better, depending on how Hughes pitches from here on out.  Moreover, the Yanks have shown already that they can hit Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling and the other lesser lights (although they haven’t figured out Tavarez, strangely enough).  Probably, it’s a bit unrealistic to expect the Yanks to win more than four of the six remaining head to head games, but if a few things break right, I can easily imagine a sweep in the Bronx and taking two of three in Fenway.

do you guys really think Kennedy, as good as he may be, is any more likely to pitch well in his major league debut than Karstens?

i’d call it a coinflip.

that’s not saying i don’t think Kennedy is a vastly superior pitcher to Karstens, i do.  i think Karstens is pretty bad actually.

i’m just saying for ONE start, and his first start ever, i’d say it’s even money who would pitch better.

look at Phil’s first start this year and his first start back from the DL.

The Yankees have done their part by playing great (45-22, .671, I think?) since their nadir. The Sox have helped out by going 32-32 in the same span.

Woo hoo!

I just got back from Cleveland, where I got to see Saturday and Sunday’s game in person. Most excellent. When I left the stadium today, Boston was leading, so I am delighted to find that they did indeed lose. Freaking awesome.

Yankee fans were out in force in Cleveland. I don’t know if this is normal in Cleveland, but it surprised me. There were definitely more fans there than when I go to see the Yanks in Detroit. We had “Let’s Go Yankees” chants working loudly for both games and had “MVP” chants going for A-Rod on Saturday. The Cleveland faithful were unable to quiet us. Normally when we try these things in Detroit, the crowd there is able to drown is out, since we are greatly outnumbered. Not in Cleveland, apparently. It was great. I don’t know if that got communicated at all during broadcasts. We pretty well owned the place, with the exception of the ninth on Sunday, in which we were (understandably) taken aback at the opening salvo against Mo, only to get to watch the Clevelanders get silenced by Mo as he closed it out.

My only regret is that I didn’t get to see Joba and Phil on Friday night. Four back!! Let’s go, Yankees!!!

Also, I gave up on the Yanks. I had some small hope of a comeback, sure, but the way the team was playing in April and May…

I have a $5 bet with a Philly phan coworker, made in mid-may, as to which team would have the better record. My bet was on the Phillies.

The Sox have done their part by playing great (36-15) since opening day. The Yankees have helped out by going 21-29 in the same span.

What is my point?  that the yankees were projected to be the better team going into the season, but were derailed by awful luck, major injuries, and 4 players’ slumps that all happened at the same time.

the Yankees were always supposed to be in the race.  now they are.

regression to the mean is a BI-ATCH!!!!

i gave up on the division, but i don’t think i ever gave up on the wildcard.

I never gave up on the team. I assumed after the rotation settled, we would make a run at it.
Honestly though, I also assumed Kei Igawa would turn into a good fifth starter. I’m just that optimistic.

I gave up on the division long ago, but always had hopes for the wild card.  I am amazed that we find ourselves in decent position to win the division.  How great would winning the division and Boston missing the playoffs be.

As much as I would perfer Ian to Karstens, he did pitch last August & September ( and rather decently ) as the Yanks were running down Boston…..It’s been tough for Karstens as he’s been through 2 Spring Trainings this season and hasn’t been able to get untracked…...If by some chance Farnsworth could get his shit together and become effective, a run deep into October is a strong Possibility…....Big if though, but it sure would solidify the pen…...

Phil Hughes’ first start was no great shakes, but Tyler Clippard, on the other hand, pitched a fine game against the Mets on national TV in his major league debut.  What makes anyone think that Ian Kennedy, a product of a big time program like USC who has pitched for the US national team, is going to fall apart in his debut?  Talent matters and I’d rather have a nervous Kennedy in there than a relaxed Karstens who has pitched very poorly thus far this year.

Farnsworth is finished, Pat M.  The bullpen will be solidified (if such a thing does indeed happen) by a combination of Vizcaino, Joba, Brian Bruney and hopefully Edwar Ramirez.  I’d like to see Chris Britton given a chance as well, but it’s too much to expect Torre to give innings to two “untrustworthy” relievers.

yes after 36 years of Yankization i said to some (my cat thurman ) that we sucked on ice and every other surface. That said we have no starters that match up in a game 1 ,4 ,7 scenario with that scumbag Beckett. i love the chingster,Moose seems manly once more , but i will never trust #22
or #46 inna huge game. as much as phil the thrill makes me believe, and he really fukkin does i am somewhat afraid of that torre madness that caused the 04 debacle.    whats that shit? I was at a birthday party this evening and when the results of todays games came in i approached bosox boys and said the following… YER BLOODS IN THE WATER CAN YA SEE THE SHARKS ??? i was not a popular yankee hat wearin mofo     night lads

I’m on board for Kennedy to get his first start Tuesday…...I’m kind of surprised that Cashman hasn’t cleared a roster spot for him yet…..As for Farnsworth, I know it’s a stretch as he’s done nothing to indicate that he’d change his make up by now….Although he did turn in a rare 1-2-3 outing last time he toed the rubber…..I had the chance to play in a golf Tourney earler this week in the Angels Legends Golf Charity Event…( They don’t call it The Old Timers game )....Farnsworth’s name came up a possible key to the Yanks success in October…...Just about everyone thinks the Yanks will be there….This was before the sweeping of Cleveland…..

i gave up. but, you know, America, fuck yeah, and all that jazz.

I didn’t give up, but I did suggest some things that they should do if they got to a point where it was obviously over (perhaps right before the trade deadline.)

I think they are 1 more move from being a team that can make a run through the playoffs - and it’s in the bullpen. I’m hopeful Cashman can get a useful MLB reliever from San Diego for Igawa.  Even if he ends up being something decent, I feel like we’re still dealing from our strengths (starting pitching) in moving him.  Ramirez and Britton need to be a part of this bullpen and Farnsworth needs to straighten up or be reserved for mop up innings from here on in.

I gave up on first place, not on the wild card.
___

link:

Only the Yankees can afford to survive such errors of financial commission, but the bigger news is the roster transformation. These are not your staid post-Paulie (O’Neill) Yankees anymore, plodding along and chanting the existentialist mantra: “We’ll win because we earn.”

Cabrera had a birthday Saturday, his 23rd. Robinson Canó, who had three more hits yesterday as his average soars above .300, is 24. Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain, the rookie pitching jewels who locked down the Indians here in the series opener Friday night, are 21. Everyone says there are even more acclaimed young arms in the minors. The ace of the staff, Chien-Ming Wang, is an ancient 27.

“It feels a lot like when we all came up in the mid-’90s,” said Jeter, referring to himself and other homegrown Yankees — Williams, Jorge Posada and yesterday’s winner, Andy Pettitte.

Yeah, I gave up on the division (I still think it is highly unlikely), but I was giving the Wild Card until the Yankees were 10 games out.

Thankfully, that never happened.

I think I’d take this bullpen:

Rivera
Chamberlain
Vizcaino
Bruney (it looks like he found some control from the wind up, no?)
Ramirez (different look with the change-up)
Karstens, soon to be replaced by Rasner (long man)
Britton
Henn/Villone

With Henn/Villone being the first to go if they can upgrade with someone from San Diego.  Now, what to do with Farnsworth. How about he just starts playing well? Wouldn’t that be nice.

I had given up on this season.  I do admit that.  It’s hard to believe that it was this season when Carl Pavano started opening day, Pettitte was making relief appearances against the Red Sox, and that the two headed monster of Dougie M and Josh Phelps were patrolling 1B.  Sometimes I think we just forget how long the season is.

I dont know guys, but with Bobby Abreu’s recent play and Hideki and Melky playing the way they are, would it make best sense to trade Johnny in the off-season? I mean, Giambi is better suited for DH and I think he would definitely help the team more, but is that contract worth trading?-I know I am jumping to ahead of myself.

but i will never trust #22
or #46 inna huge game

yeah, if only Clemens or Pettitte ever came through in the WS for the Yankees. bums.

the yankees won’t get a decent reliever for Igawa that will help them this year.  if they DO, it will be as a PTBNL that they can have after the season.

any decent pitcher that SD would want to trade would not make it through waivers.

Steve Phillips, who thought Gagne for Cabrera was a must make move for the Yankees to make the playoffs, just said Boston Red Sox will win the AL East and Seattle “pythagorean record of 59-56” Mariners will win the Wild Card. He also said Boston’s bullpen would fix itself.

This man was once a General Manage of a MLB… there’s something very wrong with that.

“It feels a lot like when we all came up in the mid-’90s,” said Jeter, referring to himself and other homegrown Yankees — Williams, Jorge Posada and yesterday’s winner, Andy Pettitte.

Umm . . .  Araton’s forgetting someone else that Jeter meant, too, right?  That skinny set-up guy, the Panamanian with the deceptive windup and icewater in his veins . . . whatshisname again . . .?

Umm . . .  Araton’s forgetting someone else that Jeter meant, too, right?  That skinny set-up guy, the Panamanian with the deceptive windup and icewater in his veins . . . whatshisname again . . .?

hjaraton@nytimes.com

And Steve Phillips was the genius that signed Mo Vaughn & Robby Alomar as they were one step from the DL…...He’s still pissed off about the 2000 World Series, and always being second fiddle to the Yanks…...There’s no way he back tracks on the Yanks being in the playoffs…Same as in 05,06 and now 07…..He’s a schmuck…..He’ll never have a GM position again…He’s not even a consideration for an interview…..

This man was once a General Manage of a MLB… there’s something very wrong with that.

Important word there: “was.” And hasn’t been for many years, and his name never comes up when a GM position is open. There’s a reason for that….

C’mon, a little love for Steve Phillips. He is, after all, comedy relief.

He’s just an idiot and his idiotness rubbed off Jim Duquette when they traded away Kazmir.

I remember reading a post on here SG where you said something to the effect of, “I’ve finally accepted it. The Yankees just aren’t a good team.” That’s right about when I had to stop myself from visiting Yankee blogs. I love the Yankees as much as any of you, and yeah, they can irk the hell out of me, but you guys have to settle down and look at the bigger picture a bit more, not just the immediate negatives. Else you’re basically Red Sox fans (haha, kidding, but check out the Gagne thread on sosh).

Personally, I just like to see the Yankees win a few series and get to .500.  And then see where they are from there.  If they take care of their own business, they should be a winning team.  Let’s get there first.

I wonder 1. if Larry was at the Baltimore games and 2. his impressions of the fun there.

As well, I would love to see Giambi taking most of the at bats at DH or whatever, but unless he plays 1B 1-2 times a week, I have a hard time seeing how he starts more than 4 day a week.  Damon will get a bunch of playing time, I don’t see Torre deviating from that. 

Damon and Matsui has to play 1B in order for Giambi to play more.  I don’t see that happening either.  SG, you said you would throw some hypotheticals once Giambi, you know, actually show.  He’s here.  Offer Torre some free advice.

That’s right about when I had to stop myself from visiting Yankee blogs.

And you were missed.

SG, you said you would throw some hypotheticals once Giambi, you know, actually show.  He’s here.  Offer Torre some free advice.

Yeah, I did say that.  I’ll try and get something up sometime today if work settles down.

I never gave up entirely, but I had come to terms with probably not making the playoffs.  I was watching to see certain players, but with a little bit of hope that they’d still come back.  Of course, it ain’t over till it’s over.

it’s hard to say that the people who have been posting here all season ever completely “gave up”.  after all, if they gave up, they would stop watching every game, then coming here to discuss the game, roster moves, etc. 

i’d like to think if i ever really gave up on a season, i’d be able to fill my newfound free time with something outside of baseball.

ehh, i guess not.

:glombi:

“it’s hard to say that the people who have been posting here all season ever completely “gave up”.  after all, if they gave up, they would stop watching every game, then coming here to discuss the game, roster moves, etc.”

I don’t think it’s a matter of not following the day to day movement of the team.  When I say I gave up on the team, it means that I had started thinking ahead to next year and the moves that should or should not be made to better the team. 

In retrospect, it may have been a blessing is disguise that the team’s roster construction more or less prevented any major moves.  The had (and still have) a lot of untradeable contracts and, if you believed Cashman, they weren’t going to trade the kids for some quick fix.  So, it was pretty much going to be on the team as it was constructed to just start playing to their potential.

I’m on record in a few liveblogs as saying I wasn’t giving up on the division.  Just standing back from it all and taking in that there were more than 2 months left in the season gave me a little hope.

I don’t think it’s a matter of not following the day to day movement of the team.  When I say I gave up on the team, it means that I had started thinking ahead to next year and the moves that should or should not be made to better the team.

i hear you.  i’m just saying there is a difference b/w giving up in the sense that you accept an October without the Yankees and giving up in the sense that you stop going to games, watching games, following the team.

in other words, you stop supporting your team.

the former means just you are a realistic (pessimistic?) fan, the latter means you are a fair-weather fan.

I have a tattoo that says, “A man is not finished when he is defeated, A man is finished when he quits.” So I never gave up hope on this season, but I will admit that there were times when my faith grew very weak.

I gave up on the Yankees.  I thought they had no chance at the postseason.  If they make it, it will be the sweetest crow I’ve ever tasted.

Some thoughts and reaction to earlier comments:
1. IE-agree totally Kennedy would be a better choice tommorrow. Worrying about wasting a year of his eligibility is way to precise a decision in a very unpredictable business. The likelihood that the trinity will all be healthy four years from now is anybody’s guess and like the other guy said, when do the Yanks not pony up when they really want to? (Except for Beltran, regrettably,sigh)
2. Igawa- yup is right technically that nobody any good would clear waivers, but the better answer is what has Igawa done this year (at even the AAA level)that would get the SD GM all hot and bothered? To expect anything at all is saying a lot. Getting rid of some salary commitment would be the best NY could hope for. I don’t see anything getting done mid year.
3.  I probably gave up on the division however I don’t recall putting it to print. The team is riding high but no time to coast. Baltimore and that darn Roberts is in town and they have given the team fits. Their starters seem to be pretty good and they could be tough this week. And then the Tigers over the weekend. Boston has a chance to gain some game backs with TB in Fenway and NY having a tougher week. This is not the time yet to feel our oats. I would rather be four games up then trailing by four. A lot of work to do, but it has been fun of late. Wang has something to prove after last week’s debacle. I’m getting concerned about him.

when boston collapses it will be the most glorious one I have witnessed.
Just think of all the events of this season.

Carl pavano pitched opening day, our starters were getting injured every other game, we started (without verifying) 9 rookies (hughes, igawa, clippard, desalvo, wright, people help me out?), 14.5 back being written off by every sports commentator in the universe, prolonged slumps by everyone on the team except THE three I dont have to name.

And with some damn good baseball, we are back in it to win it. I like this teams chances more than the last few years because it felt like they lost the hunger that the dynasty had. They would win in the regular season, clinch early, languish and then flounder in the playoffs. This year we will be fighting to the end. It is the team you end the year with that is most important.

I gave up on the division, not the card though.

The difference between the red sox and a lawn chair? Nothing. They both fold up in the fall.

Re: Igawa and what the Yankees could get back.  I could be wrong, but only players on the 40 man roster need to clear waivers in August (someone help me if I am wrong).  So it is possible that San Diego has someone tearing up AAA that isn’t on the 40, that Cashman believes could help the Yankees NOW.  Unlikely, but possible.

You know what is going to happen Tuesday?  It will happen either way.  If Karstens pitches well - not great but say 5 innings letting up 3 runs - and the Yankees win, everyone (I think SG and myself) who supported Karstens pitching will point out it was the right move.  If Karstens gets bombed and the Yankees lose, everyone who thought Kennedy should have pitched will point to why Karstens shouldn’t have.  I don’t think at this point any amount of “evidence” will persuade anyone either way, so, lets talk about the fact that the Attorney General went 4-4 yesterday!

(Except for Beltran, regrettably,sigh)

i agree with you. i wanted Beltran at the time and could not believe they passed on him.

but this is pretty interesting:

Player A: .302/.350/.451 OPS+ 114
Player B: .258/.336/.480 OPS+ 116

huh.  player A is “4th OFer” Melky Cabrera.  Player B is obviously Beltran.

of course i am not insinuating that Melky is as good as Beltran, that would be crazy. 

it is more of a comment as to how remarkable Melky’s improvement has been.

we started (without verifying) 9 rookies

Karstens still counts as a rookie, as does Rasner I believe.  I only come up with 7 then…went to ESPN and looked at the team-stats page, and went through everyone that is listed as having a GS this year.  Even if there are only seven, you’re point still holds though.

Just saw this over at CBS radio website:

Phil Allard wrote:
“So important is Chamberlain to the Yankees, that the front office has instituted “the Joba Rules.” The rules are designed so that Torre won’t burn the youngster out, as he has done to so many relief pitchers in the past. Joba gets a day off for each inning pitched, and he is not to be brought in during the middle of an inning. Torre is under strict orders from above, and below (Nardi Contreras), since the entire organization is well aware of the damage Torre can inflict upon relievers.”

interesting enough for a team that did not hit the long ball or strike out batters often, yanks are 1st in both since the break (the Ks are probably more surprising)

“of course i am not insinuating that Melky is as good as Beltran, that would be crazy.”

You’re right, he’s better!

I gave up. I knew the season was long, and that teams get to their records in strange ways, but I just didn’t see the team rebounding. I thought Abreu was done, that Melky was as good as everyone had been telling me all offseason(That is, not very), that Giambi was gone for the season and that Joe had lost his fucking mind. I had faith in Matsui hitting again and Cano rebounding, but not to this extent. I thought the team would make a run at 85-90 wins and lose out by a few to what I thought were strong Indian and Tiger teams.

Ah well, I’m overly reactionary.

BTW, Cano’s “fluke season” 2006 OPS+: 132 in 508 PAs.

Cano’s 2007 OPS+: 131 in 484 PAs. He’s also walked more then he’s struck out since the All-Star break.

interesting enough for a team that did not hit the long ball or strike out batters often, yanks are 1st in both since the break (the Ks are probably more surprising)

it’s only surprising when you forget that Joba has struck out 49 hitters in only 4 innings.

Depending on how Wang bounces back, I can live with Karstens getting this spot start.  Best case scenario Joba comes in and finishes it off with 2 innings of work.  Not so good case, Joba comes in for 3 innings.  I would love to see Kennedy pitch, but I buy the first major league start coin flip proposition.  Especially since it ain’t likely for Kennedy to throw a complete game, assuming he probably has a pretty strict pitch count.  It’s going to be up to the pen regardless.

We survived Wright and Randy from last year, and Igawa this year.  If Karstens is reasonably effective, the Yankees can win behind him.

But as a coin flip proposition, I have no problem if Kennedy comes up.  I guess a spot start game of entertainment will be worth the millions more he will get from the Yankees.

According to Pete Abraham’s blog, Karstens will start tomorrow (luckily, against Daniel Cabrera - the worst of Baltimore’s Big Three).  Abraham’s view is that Karstens is on the team to provide spot starts and to be the long man.  And if he’s optioned to make room for Kennedy, well, he would have to spend 10 days in the minors and then who would be the long man?  In my opinion, Ron Villone could be just as bad in the long role as Karstens and Kennedy would give the team a better chance to win on Tuesday.  In any case, all we can do is hope for the best.  In general, I’m fairly optimistic that Wang/Joba can beat Guthrie in a close game and then win either a) a middling slugfest against Cabrera or b) another close game with Hughes pitching against Bedard.

I felt Cano would come around. You just don’t hit .340+ and forget what you know. Certainly this guy and Melky have really made a huge difference. They are fun to watch. Melky even is mixing in a little power of his own. You get the feeling that we haven’t seen his complete potential. This was a common argument all last winter for not trading him on this board. With his slow start I began to be a doubter, but his great OF play convinced me that we would have been screwed giving him up to Atlanta or whoever last offseason. You just have to believe that he’s getting more and more adjusted to the big leagues. What an asset these young guys are!
Abreu has been very good offensively the last couple of months. I’ve been a critic mostly because of his defense, but moreso by the fact that the team would be better served with righthanded hitting balance. It will be interesting to see how the team fares with Bedard and Lester and other leftys down the stretch, but you have to give Bobby his due for he has come up big in the past few weeks.
I think the injury bug was the biggest hit on the team in the early going and was so frequent in it’s appearance that it was just totally absurd. It threw everything out of whack and everybody.
How about that Joba! What a performance last Friday night? It will be fun to see how he does against Detroit and Boston.

Re: Cano, I was scared that we’d seen teh best of him.  Remember, Mariano Duncan (!) also hit .340 one year.  Fortunately, Cano is no Duncan.

as long as we are confessing our sins, i will admit i was down on Cano.

what killed me wasn’t that he was slumping and had no power, it was the alarming amount of K’s he was racking up.

i was afraid the league had “figured him out”.  throw him 3 pitches in his eyes and he’d strikeout.

in 2005-2006, he didn’t walk, but he didn’t K either.  and i could live with that tradeoff.  he usually put the ball in play, usually hit hard. 

i knew he wouldn’t hit .340 again, but .300 wasn’t out of the question, with hopefully more HRs and BBs. so the fact that he was striking out so much really planted some serious dounbts in my mind. 

Robbie, forgive me.

I don’t quite get the “don’t start Kennedy’s clock” argument.  True, bringing him up for a spot start would burn an option year, but MLB service time is actual MLB service time.  He won’t become eligible for arbitration and free agency a year earlier just because he spends one day on the 25 man roster.

The Yanks have been beating lefties of late, at least the Odalis Perez/John Danks variety, which, to my mind, is where Lester belongs.  Shelley Duncan also gives the team a lefty mashing DH.  More importantly, both Matsui and Cano have been hitting the southpaws of late.  In any case, I don’t think the Yanks will rock Bedard but given the fact that Hughes is pitching, that won’t be necessary.  Also, Baltimore’s pen is a bit tired after the series with Boston.  If the Yanks can drive a guy like Guthrie out of the game after six innings, that would be a great help, especially with a guy like Cabrera, who throws a million pitches, going the next day.

Agreed on Cano.  I had drafted him on both of my fantasy teams (I was sure he was going to have a monster year) and then got tired of his awful at bats from earlier in the season.  Now he’s tearing it up on other team’s rosters. 

(I’m not complaining, just further evidence that I thought this team- and Cano in particular- was cooked.)

True, bringing him up for a spot start would burn an option year, but MLB service time is actual MLB service time.

you’re right, but what if he hurts his elbow next year and needs surgery that spans half of 2008-2009.

now he is out of options in 2010.

i don’t know, i guess that’s a silly thing to worry about.  but on the other hand it’s ONE start. 

Torre will probably pull him after 5 innings b/c that’s how he treats rookies.

so, we are talking about 5 innings.

if Karstens can give you 3-4 ok innings, you could probably go to Villone for 2 innings, and be back right at the same place.

Developmental heresy department: I’d like to see them bring Kennedy up, drop Brower, and keep Kennedy on the staff.  They need another hot arm in the pen.  It’s not at all the ideal scenario for Kennedy qua Kennedy, but Is there anyone on this site who doesn’t believe that IK would pitch better relief for the rest of the season than any of Farnsworth, Villone, Karstens, or Brower?  Yes, I’d like to see Ramirez and Britton up too, but again, don’t we believe Kennedy would be more effective than those two as well?  I think you start Kennedy’s service time now because he most likely deserves to be on the staff now.  Bill James once wrote that that the minute a prospect shows he has nothing to prove in the minors, every minor league game he plays thereafter actually retards his progress.

I believe Edwar Ramirez would be a better bullpen option than Kennedy since he’s already a reliever and has similarly dominated at the AAA level.  The question, though, is whether Torre will actually use him.

Gammons is the only source who has even hinted at Kennedy starting.  WFAN and ESPN radio are saying otherwise without qualifications as is the NY Times.  I’m pessimistic about Karstens chances off his overall mediocre minor league record and am hoping for a hight scoring game.

Someone earlier mentioned Rasner who I believe is an improvement over Karstens as a long man spot starter.  The last info I could find is he started throwing on 7/15 so why hasn’t he begun a rehab?

We need a big game from Wang tonight, the next two could be very tough.

Wang will be good because he always is at home and his last start was probably the worst of his career.  It would also be nice if Wang could go eight innings, saving Joba for Tuesday or Wednesday if need be, but perhaps that’s being a bit greedy.

Can anyone explain the ramifications of having Kennedy make one start in terms of major league service time? 

Specifically, if Kennedy makes one appearance (or is called up the 25-man roster), does that mean that he reaches free agency/arbitration a year earlier?

Thanks.

It’s interesting that Torre is high on Jobba, low on Edwar.  Went to Jobba for two innings in a big spot, refused to go to Edwar at all.  Interesting in that he clearly doubts either Edwar’s stuff or his makeup.  (He’s not basing it on numbers, that’s for sure.)  I wonder which it is?  Is he that opposed to someone whose main pitch is a changeup?  Or does he not like Edwar’s body language?

The front office played hardball with Torre by a) trading Proctor and b) bringing up Joba and then dictating how he was to be used.  Torre really had no choice but to try Joba given the other options in his pen, namely, Farnsworth, Villone and Brower, and the fact that Vizcaino can’t pitch 74 days in a row or every time a 12-1 lead narrows to 12-3.  In terms of Edwar, I don’t know why Torre doesn’t like him, but it’s probably just the fact that he’s a rookie and “unproven.”

Why didnt Farnsie pitch Saturday.  Behind Joba and Viz the bp is weak and even as sucky as he’s been this year Farnsie is probably better then Brower and if he got his act at all together he could be a useful 6th or 7th inning guy when Joba is NA

I don’t know why Torre doesn’t like him

I’m sure Gary Sheffield would tell you why he doesn’t like him…

Seriously though, I no longer try to figure out why Torre does the things he does.  It is akin to trying to figure out how my wife can stop on the way home and spend 50$ on stuff we don’t need, but consider it being frugal.

Can anyone explain the ramifications of having Kennedy make one start in terms of major league service time?

it’s not really the service time, but it does use an option.

also, they would have to DFA someone from the 40 man.

which means getting rid of someone for 5 innings.

Why not get rid of Brower?  He’s absolutely useless.

The indispensable Kevin Reese is also on the 40 man roster.

Kevin Reese?  You’re kidding.  They won’t pitch Kennedy because because they’re afraid of losing Kevin Reese?

Kevin Reese = The next Melky Cabrera

Kevin Reese = what some people thought Melky would be (a 4th OF).  At best.  Hah.

They won’t pitch Kennedy because because they’re afraid of losing Kevin Reese?

it’s not the only reason.

the other reason is that he is hightly likely to NOT PITCH WELL because it is his FIRST TIME EVER IN THE MAJORS.

<i> the other reason is that he is hightly likely to NOT PITCH WELL because it is his FIRST TIME EVER IN THE MAJORS<i>

Yup, I thought it was pretty well accepted that pitchers actually tend to do well in their first ML start.  I can’t remember if I read an actual study on this or if I’m just repeating some kind of conventional wisdom.

I’m not arguing for bringing up Kennedy, though, unless they plan to keep him up.

of course i am not insinuating that Melky is as good as Beltran, that would be crazy.

But, his numbers are showing he has probably been as valuable as Beltran, who hasn’t been necessarily bad, but it puts how good Melky has been in perspective.

Well, ital didn’t work.  Can someone point out my mistake?  Thank you.

96—Maybe Melky IS as good as Beltran.  Too early to tell. There are no comps on BR.com.  Doesn’t BP do similarity scores too?  Scan anyone check those? (not a subscriber)

you’re right, but what if he hurts his elbow next year and needs surgery that spans half of 2008-2009.

now he is out of options in 2010.

I’m not sure that option years have to be used consecutively.  IOW, I don’t think an option gets burned if a player spends an entire season on the DL, even if he’s already used one or two of his options.  An option doesn’t get used if the player is on the MLB roster for the entire year, either.  I think I read somewhere that Bernie Williams actually has an option left, for example.  OTOH, Nick Johnson got credit for an entire year of MLB service time while he was on the DL because he was on the 25-man roster when he got hurt.  So the bigger risk with using a kid like Kennedy for one spot start is that he gets hurt in that game and gets MLB service time credit until he’s ready to pitch again.

Yup, I thought it was pretty well accepted that pitchers actually tend to do well in their first ML start.  I can’t remember if I read an actual study on this or if I’m just repeating some kind of conventional wisdom.

really?

Hughes didn’t do well.

but Clippard did.

so who knows?

i’d be interested if there was a study on that.